Live...mostly...from Anthem

[A&L_Ont]

And you have a better clue? What makes you the expert as opposed to the poster you are replying too? You don't know what really happened either. You don't actually know who made the decisions and who didn't. Just gotta love the preachers!!

 

I read on twitter from a passenger currently on the ship that some are speculating that there is more wrong with the ship than they are being told. Maybe that has something to do with it??? Guy on twitter's name is Greg. He's being quoted in lots of the local news stories. He has photos on twitter too. He has been tweeted by lots of news people and Greg has granted all of them permission to use his photos.

 

Thanks, for keeping us posted during your interesting journey. Let us know when you arrive back in port, and until then continue to make the best of your time at sea. Now get to the bar for the remaining portion of happy hour. :)

[Ontario Cruiser]

Has there been reference to mechanical or structural damage to the ship that might it from sailing on the next cruise ? We are on the February 20th sailing?

Ontario Cruiser

[foxgoodrich]

I'm curious about something and hoping some of you (Cheng, Bob, Carol??) who know more about the PVSA than I do might know the answer! One of the posters last night said he thought all pax would disembark in PC. According to the PVSA, that would have been against the law, right? What would the fine per passenger levied on Royal be for that kind of a violation? Or could a waiver be possible due to the circumstances? Just curious...

 

So now Anthem is headed back to port in NJ, which makes this cruise essentially a 'cruise to nowhere.' Going back to home port without any ports between departure and arrival does not violate the PVSA as I understand it, right? :confused:

 

I hope all aboard can have some enjoyment of what's left of the cruise. This thread has kept me riveted since last night.

Judy

Edited February 8, 2016 by foxgoodrich

[ZandZ]

Okay. At this point, actual news is pretty much not going to be a thing. I will, of course, post anything of substance that is reliably reported by a member of Senior Staff. But, I am at this point tired of reading all the blamers so will probably absent myself from this thread in a general sort of way. I leave you with:

 

The Captain was always honest as to the situation.

Knowing something about storms, I completely believe a minor storm took a turn for the worst.

The Captain and Crew have done a brilliant job ok keeping life and ship safe given an incredibly hideous situation NOT OF THEIR MAKING. They continue to do all they can to keep us safe and comfortable.

They have rescheduled all the cancelled shows from yesterday.

They opened all the bars for free booze from 1 til 2 this afternoon.

 

I am, for the most part, also very proud of the passengers on this cruise.

As much as I am appreciative for all your updates, I believe it would be best for you to sign off and try to enjoy the rest of this trip. The back and forth is something you can read later, if at all. I would be so annoyed by all this blaming if I were on that ship now.....

[cruisenfever]

We are expecting bad weather in NJ on Saturday too.

As of today, how bad is it supposed to be??:eek::p

[BecciBoo]

Were are you getting your information from?

We are just off Anthem (2/6/16). There are no life vests in the balcony stateroom closets.

 

Excuse me.....don't read well??? You must be new to cruising....as I said in my post which you quoted, USED TO BE......those jackets were indeed kept there until they started doing Muster without them. Long about 2008 or so. You used to have to take them out of the closet, put them on and go downstairs to your station to do the drill.

Edited February 8, 2016 by BecciBoo

[chengkp75]

Lucky it was Anthem going through this storm

Anthem is the 3rd largest cruise ship in the world at 167,000 tons and can handle storms of this size and no problem cruising out of the northeast (there are more storms in the Caribbean).

If it was the Average size ship of 80,000 to 110,000 tons ships have been rocking much more.

I been through a couple big storms and a Big Snowstorm one of them on a smaller ship and one on a Larger ship and the big was rocking but the smaller was like riding a rollercoaster in bed all night long while sleeping with similar damage shown in the posted photos.

These Big ships can handle it :)

 

Not really the case. Unless you have two ships in the same location at the same time in the same storm, (short of computer simulation) you cannot tell how two ships will react to wind and waves. In the case of ships, bigger is not always better. Besides, you do know that the tonnage figures you quote are for "gross tonnage" which is a measurement of volume and not of weight? All a larger gross tonnage figure means is that the ship is generally taller than a ship with less gross tonnage. To get true seakeeping ability, you need to look at things like block coefficient and displacement.

[cruisenfever]

I'm curious about something and hoping some of you (Cheng, Bob, Carol??) who know more about the PVSA than I do might know the answer! One of the posters last night said he thought all pax would disembark in PC. According to the PVSA, that would have been against the law, right? What would the fine per passenger levied on Royal be for that kind of a violation? Or could a waiver be possible due to the circumstances? Just curious...

 

So now Anthem is headed back to port in NJ, which makes this cruise essentially a 'cruise to nowhere.' Going back to home port without any ports between departure and arrival does not violate the PVSA as I understand it, right? :confused:

Judy

Correct. You can not board in one US Port and disembark in another US Port without stopping at a foreign port that is at least 600 miles away.

 

I believe the fine is $300pp. Whether they would waive it is debatable.

[Blondynka]

Just watched the video on Instagram of Dwight and Tracy at the sunshine bar trying to keep up with the open bar announcement. People seem to be in better spirits (no pun intended) :p

[Big_G]

Correct. You can not board in one US Port and disembark in another US Port without stopping at a foreign port that is at least 600 miles away.

 

I believe the fine is $300pp. Whether they would waive it is debatable.

 

Would we ever know if it was waived? Just curious.

[orvil]

Thankfully things seem to be calming down a bit. For those on board, you were experiencing conditions OFF the Beaufort scale, which ends at force 12. You were / are in hurricane wind conditions, which is where the scale leaves off.

 

All that a huge ship like Anthem can do is to hang on. Her huge size is meaningless, as most of it is out of the water, and that portion of the hull and superstructure acts like a huge sail with the wind. No surprise judging by wind direction that the captain could not get her into the wind. The ship is not powerful enough to overcome that force.

 

I've always said it at CC before: These mega cruise ships cannot deal well with the worst mother nature can dish up. Yes, they can hang on, but not much more.

 

As to blaming the captain, and thinking this could have been avoided or minimized, have a talk with him personally, and give him your thoughts! :cool:

 

The ONLY ship that could have truly dealt with this, is a true ocean liner. And last time I checked, Anthem does not have the nick name "Queen Mary 2".

 

In fact, even QM2 would have found these conditions to be a challenge, but she at least has the power and the design to go up against this stuff. I think QM2 would maneuver much better, and given the appropriate conditions can make 29 knots to get out of "Dodge"

 

Just be happy you did not get hit with a 100' rogue wave, as QM2's predecessor QE2 did in 1995. QE2 took the wave like a champ and sailed on with minor damage. If Anthem, I would dread what the consequences would be.

 

Thus, never think that these mega cruise ships are immune from the really bad stuff. In fact, their size / construction makes them more vulnerable when mother nature unleashes her wrath.

 

I wish all on board well, and welcome to the Force 12+ club!:D

 

We just sailed on the Cunard's Queen Victoria last month from Southampton, UK to Port Canaveral. Along the way, we stopped in Ponta Delgada, Azores. We left port early due to Hurricane Alex, the first hurricane in the North Atlantic since 1938. Once Alex developed, we got out of port fast and poured the coals to the QV. We were at max speed for the next 24 hours. We just managed to skirt the edge of Alex. The next day, Alex hit the Azores full blast.

 

I have the greatest sympathy for the folks aboard the Anthem. I was sick most of the crossing due to heavy following seas from Alex. The Queen Victoria handled our seas pretty well considering the state of the ocean. She isn't a mega ship like Anthem.

 

I don't think I could ever sail on one of these floating hotels. The QV is a hybrid between a cruise ship and an ocean liner. I've sailed the North Atlantic in the winter on the Queen Mary 2. She's a champ. During Alex I was missing the QM2. She's an ocean liner and can take the pounding. Plus, she's wicked fast and can get out of the way.

 

In the future, after I regain the five pounds I lost due to continual seasickness, it's only river cruises and the Queen Mary 2.

 

I'm not surprised to learn of heart attacks. As I was into my 48th hour of dry heaves, I remember thinking that if a person had a weak heart, the heaves would be really rough on them. It was that bad.

 

Best of luck to all who sail aboard her.

[Loonbeam]

As far as return port, going back to Bayonne makes sense..

 

First, it would technically be a PVSA violation to debark in Port Canaveral, that said a waiver would not be hard to get in this case.

 

However, with Bayonne being a home port for the ship, its where a lot of the needed spares, replacement stock, etc will be housed for quick replenishment. Bayonne is also a nicely sheltered port in the event of further bad weather at least a little more so than PC.

 

In addition, it means no additional travel plans for passengers on board at this time.

 

Other than keeping a few unhappy customers on board, there's not a lot of downside. And also a plus, since they are not rushing to PC, the odds are there are no severe medical issues.

 

 

Question, since the ship is due back in Wed, will pax be allowed to remain onboard until scheduled end of cruise or will they move to hotels, etc? Have they said? (They may still be working out plans).

[RocketMan275]

CNBC reporting that RCCI confirms Anthem is returning to home port.

[PACrew]

Anyone who knows anything about cruising knows the itinerary and routes are planned not just by the Captain, but in coordination with the home office in Miami. RCCL has their own team of meteorologists as well as planners involved in these decisions. There is no reason to blame the Captain. (from what we know thus far).

 

(Now, it sounds the cruise director on the other hand needs some training in how to sound authoritative and in control, not sound like a p*ssy. People need assurance and a calm voice. It appears this guy (or gal) didn't have it. )

 

Glad everyone is safe. Enjoy the free booze and 50% off cruise!

[antsnanny]

Not saying you didn't list 10 - 12 degrees, but your picture shows a listing of only about 3 - 4 degrees (angle of railing to horizon).

 

Yikes! Thanks for the perspective.

[cecelia0613]

In regards to the captain....This is not his first rodeo. This is the newest ship in the RC fleet. The best of the best get promoted to the new ships.

 

And its not his first time in a storm...brought the Anthem safely to the US on its transatlantic and we were in a storm similar to this one. I never felt unsafe during that voyage.

[MommaBear55]

I would love to know how much input, if any, the Coast Guard has in the decisions that are being made now. I know once the Anthem arrives in port they will do their own inspection before the ship can be declared ready to go back out to sea. (My husband was in the Merchant Marine and retired from the Navy).

[Charles4515]

Would we ever know if it was waived? Just curious.

 

 

They have waived it in the past.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[antsnanny]

Not really the case. Unless you have two ships in the same location at the same time in the same storm, (short of computer simulation) you cannot tell how two ships will react to wind and waves. In the case of ships, bigger is not always better. Besides, you do know that the tonnage figures you quote are for "gross tonnage" which is a measurement of volume and not of weight? All a larger gross tonnage figure means is that the ship is generally taller than a ship with less gross tonnage. To get true seakeeping ability, you need to look at things like block coefficient and displacement.

 

 

I think the larger ships seem to rock more, perhaps because there building them so darn high.

[tbill]

As of today, how bad is it supposed to be??:eek::p

 

Right now it says snow showers and wind. Not really specific.

 

https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/07002:4:US

[Big_G]

CNBC reporting that RCCI confirms Anthem is returning to home port.

 

I couldn't bear to watch CNBC today. :eek::D

[kchristian0428]

Quick update while cabin guys clean up the broken glass all over our stateroom floor and secure the mangled deck furniture.

 

They are putting all damaged stuff out in the halls (shower doors that flew off hinges, large pictures that came down, and most of the non attached room decor that by and large shattered last night.)

 

Captain announced that we are heading back to Bayonne since there is another weather system coming out of Florida. Not supposed to be as bad as last one was. But then again the last one wasn't supposed to be that bad either. No chances with this one. Will be back in port Wednesday morning. We will be following the storm this time. (Do storms ever turn around??)

 

Further announced that all costs for all cruises are being refunded in full and that in addition we would all get a 50% voucher for another cruise. We don't drink, but they just announced an open bar throughout the ship for the next hour. Going to get a Virgin pina colada. 😀

 

They didn't have to do all that and I'd consider that to be going overboard. (Oh no, I'm stuck making stupid puns).

 

Seriously, that was a class move. Sure there was a damage control element in the decision but I'll give them points for being proactive and generous.

 

Suns out as we head back north so heading outside to enjoy.

Thanks for the update...

 

Hang in there and just think of the stories you'll be able to tell !!! WOW !!!

 

And if you didn't drink before... and you do by the time you return... we'll all understand - heheheh

[Big_G]

They have waived it in the past.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Thanks.

[foxgoodrich]

Correct. You can not board in one US Port and disembark in another US Port without stopping at a foreign port that is at least 600 miles away.

 

I believe the fine is $300pp. Whether they would waive it is debatable.

 

Thanks, Patti! I thought I had heard the $300 figure too but I didn't know if it was accurate. So if they had disembarked 5000 passengers in PC, the fine would have been $1.5 million.

 

We were on a TA a few years ago out of NOLA. We had an unscheduled stop in PC for a medical evacuation (a lady with a broken ankle and her husband.) I heard from the concierge that there was a $600 fine to the company for that. So my thinking was that waivers don't happen much if they don't happen for medical situations.

Judy

[chengkp75]

Adding some notes about listing versus oscillation versus flexing versus sheer and how they affect damage ..

 

Listing is when the ship rolls from one side to another. Based on some photos I have seen from people onboard, I'd say 15-20 degrees might be a good guess for the amount, and yes, that can be terrifying. Remember it will seem like more on the upper decks as well. Listing will result in damage like the flowerpots we have seen as heavier objects start to slide and pick up momentum as well as some of the galley damage.

 

Then you have oscillation. The ship is not just listing to one side in most cases, it usually goes back up vertical, then to the other side, repeat. From this you get things swinging, like wardrobe doors and such which put strain on hinges, causing things to break. This is when you also need to empty the pools to avoid wave action and someone taking a bath will flood a cabin.

 

All of the oscillation results in flexing of materials as different forces act on the superstructure. This is where you will see a lot of broken glass panels as they are actually twisted, and things like the ceiling damage on deck 14 we have observed.

 

Finally you have wind shear. 150 mph winds are bad enough, but when the ship is listing, they are hitting the ship decks at angles and velocities not accounted for in normal design. This can turn awnings, etc into projectiles, breaking them free of mountings (think

 

Of all of these, flexing is the most insidious and why there will need to be a full inspection of the ship at some point, as this puts the most strain on the physical structure of the ship.

 

I'm oversimplifying, of course, but the key takeaway is ships are designed to handle all of these forces even in truly adverse conditions, as we have seen. It's the decor and the people who aren't so designed.

 

Well, listing is not "rolling from one side to another. Listing is when a ship takes a consistent or persistant lean to one side or another. This is caused by wind force on the superstructure of the ship, just like a sailboat heels away from the wind.

 

What you call oscillating is rolling. Rolling does not affect the ship's structure in really significant ways, with one exception, because the ship is like a box girder and you are placing force on the side. However, twist can affect structure, as different sections of the hull roll at different angles at the same time, caused by part of the hull being in the trough and part on the crest of the wave, but again, this is like twisting a cardboard tube, it doesn't do much to the shape of the tube.

 

Longitudinal flexing, again caused by wave height, shape, and period can cause some strain (think of now bending the cardboard tube from both ends). However, every ship built is designed to weather the "100 year storm", and this wasn't that storm. There will be no structural damage, and no major inspection of the hull.

 

Now, things like glass partition panels, balcony dividers, and even cabin walls and ceilings are not structural, so even if they are damaged, this does not impair the ship in any way, it becomes just a cosmetic fix.

 

What you are describing with regards to decks and awnings is not wind shear. For the awnings this is simply the application of force (weight of air times the speed of air) against a surface not designed for it.

 

But I agree that structurally the ship is fine, and anything that is damaged is only cosmetic. Even the RCI ship that had the cracking in the running track around the pool (can't remember which one) caused by a freak wave, was only cosmetic, since that deck is not part of the ship's structure.