Crown NoroVirus

[VibeGuy]

Hand sanitizer doesn't do any thing to the Noro virus. Only bleach and hand washing with soap helps.

 

I wish people would quit spreading this outdated trope.

 

Yes, consumer-grade hand sanitizer doesn't do anything about Noro.

 

The Purell "Food Code Compliant" formula used onboard *does*. It's actually something like 10,000x as effective as conventional alcohol gels (4.3 log reduction in Norovirus vs essentially no effect)

 

Hand washing plus sanitizer remains the best way to prevent hand-hand and hand-mouth transmission of Norovirus.

 

https://handwashingforlife.com/files/hw4l_HandSani_Purell.pdf

[caribill]

Really? You know this how? You shouldn't make statements like this without some evidence for it. You may "have heard" something from your cousin's hairdresser's aunt's boyfriend, but the evidence I see here in Southern California is that no one I know has noro or has had it recently. No "epidemic."

 

From December:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-winter-vomiting-disease-outbreak-rises-in-state-20151224-story.html

 

Only says California, not any city, in this April article:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-winter-vomiting-disease-outbreak-rises-in-state-20151224-story.html

 

From Wednesday, but it talks about Berkeley

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-berkeley-norovirus-20160302-story.html

 

In December on a Holland America ship that started in San Diego

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/dec/31/Veendam-cruise-sick/

 

From the Santa Barbara paper on April 13:

http://www.independent.com/news/2016/apr/13/alisal-struck-norovirus-again/

[shredie]

Well, the big Noro epidemic of 2016 seems to have bypassed me and just about everybody I know. "On the rise" does not constitute an "epidemic." And California is a big place. However, anyone who is worried about catching something should probably avoid this place (or just about any place, really.)

[tailspintom]

Really? You know this how? You shouldn't make statements like this without some evidence for it. You may "have heard" something from your cousin's hairdresser's aunt's boyfriend, but the evidence I see here in Southern California is that no one I know has noro or has had it recently.

 

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Pages/NR15-093.aspx

[elliair]

One can use the hand sanitizer as much as they want but it isn't going to stop the noro. Not when I see people on Lido licking their fingers, eating off their plate then touching the spoons to serve themselves. Or sitting down in the chairs and touching the arm rests, then eating with your fingers. There's so many unsuspecting places that you can touch that hasn't been cleaned and people don't think about what they are doing. So, get in line and take your chances.

[joeyancho]

So, get in line and take your chances.

 

Just like in real life. .

[chengkp75]

I wish people would quit spreading this outdated trope.

 

Yes, consumer-grade hand sanitizer doesn't do anything about Noro.

 

The Purell "Food Code Compliant" formula used onboard *does*. It's actually something like 10,000x as effective as conventional alcohol gels (4.3 log reduction in Norovirus vs essentially no effect)

 

Hand washing plus sanitizer remains the best way to prevent hand-hand and hand-mouth transmission of Norovirus.

 

https://handwashingforlife.com/files/hw4l_HandSani_Purell.pdf

 

Regardless of what an industry or company "research foundation" claims, the FDA, which regulates hand sanitizers states that there are NO hand sanitizers that are considered "generally regarded as safe and EFFECTIVE" (GRASE). The FDA rates all current active ingredients in hand sanitizers as GRASE II (this level means that there is insufficient evidence to prove that the ingredient is safe and effective.

 

FDA "Food Code Compliant" simply means that this can be used on the hands of food service workers without rinsing, without causing harm. Has nothing to do with effectiveness against noro. Food code compliant hand sanitizer ingredients must be GRAS (generally regarded as safe), note that this is without the EFFECTIVENESS quality included.

[fishin' musician]

I believe the HAL method where no passengers can touch serving utensils for 2days (the crew scoops and/or hands you everything) likely helps stave it off.

[VibeGuy]

Emery University School of Public Health, published in the journal Food and Environmental Virology:

 

http://www.foodprotect.org/issues/packets/2012packet/attachments/III_025__all.pdf

 

"Furthermore,

VF481 was the most effective product tested against the

NoV genogroup II strains Snow Mountain virus (GII.2) and

a GII.4 strain. These results demonstrate that alcohol by

itself is not effective against NoV, but effective formulation

of alcohol-based handrubs can achieve significant

reduction of norovirus RNA on fingers."

 

The science has changed. Cruise-ship strength alcohol gels can make a dramatic difference in Noro transmission.

[easyboy]

Really? You know this how? You shouldn't make statements like this without some evidence for it. You may "have heard" something from your cousin's hairdresser's aunt's boyfriend, but the evidence I see here in Southern California is that no one I know has noro or has had it recently.

 

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Pages/NR15-093.aspx

Thanks for the link.

[chengkp75]

Emery University School of Public Health, published in the journal Food and Environmental Virology:

 

http://www.foodprotect.org/issues/packets/2012packet/attachments/III_025__all.pdf

 

"Furthermore,

VF481 was the most effective product tested against the

NoV genogroup II strains Snow Mountain virus (GII.2) and

a GII.4 strain. These results demonstrate that alcohol by

itself is not effective against NoV, but effective formulation

of alcohol-based handrubs can achieve significant

reduction of norovirus RNA on fingers."

 

The science has changed. Cruise-ship strength alcohol gels can make a dramatic difference in Noro transmission.

 

So why have they not submitted this data to the FDA for approval? Just because one product is "the most effective product tested" does not mean that it is particularly effective. In the final paragraph of the cited study, they pose this question:

 

"Is the 2–4 log NoV reduction

associated with VF481 sufficient to significantly reduce or

prevent NoV transmission via hands?"

 

So, even though the product reduced noro virus from fingers better than other hand sanitizers, even the study's authors don't know if it really means anything.

 

I'll wait on that answer.

[j3000]

We also had a Norovirus outbreak on The regal just last week. YUK.

Why are die-hard cruisers so defensive & cavalier about these outbreaks?

Wouldn't cruising be better WITHOUT these concerns ?????

[beg3yrs]

Why are die-hard cruisers so defensive & cavalier about these outbreaks?

 

Wouldn't cruising be better WITHOUT these concerns ?????

 

Die-hard cruisers get defensive and SEEM cavalier because we've gotten accustomed to norovirus and have learned to deal with it appropriately without making a hysterical fuss.

 

Of course cruising would be better without these concerns and we also wouldn't have to deal with the hysteria either.

[joeyancho]

I wish we could hear from someone on board. Anyone?

[Furbette]

Regardless of what an industry or company "research foundation" claims, the FDA, which regulates hand sanitizers states that there are NO hand sanitizers that are considered "generally regarded as safe and EFFECTIVE" (GRASE). The FDA rates all current active ingredients in hand sanitizers as GRASE II (this level means that there is insufficient evidence to prove that the ingredient is safe and effective.

 

FDA "Food Code Compliant" simply means that this can be used on the hands of food service workers without rinsing, without causing harm. Has nothing to do with effectiveness against noro. Food code compliant hand sanitizer ingredients must be GRAS (generally regarded as safe), note that this is without the EFFECTIVENESS quality included.

 

We got it move on. Sheesh!!

[Astro Flyer]

I wish we could hear from someone on board. Anyone?

Here's post from our roll call for the Crown's next cruise beginning on 4/16. It was posted at 3:23 PDT by a passenger who is currently sailing on the Crown & is also sailing with us on Saturday.

Don't worry everybody everything seems to be under control good time had so far.

Whatever the situation is with norovirus on the Crown he's still having a good time. ;)

Edited April 15, 2016 by Astro Flyer

[beg3yrs]

We got it move on. Sheesh!!

 

You might "get it" but so many other folks on this board just don't.

 

chengkp75's posts have always been well thought out and based on something most posts are not, FACTS.

 

I'm ready to move on as well but unless the hysteria dies down (which I doubt it ever will), facts are the best way to combat superstition and speculation.

[A.stew12305]

It makes a lot short 3 to 7 days cruises from San Pedro Ca.

Norovirus is currently an epidemic in the Los Angeles and San Diego areas.

 

I live in San Diego, I haven't heard about any Norco epidemics..

[Sailaway John]

Some people have lousy hygiene habits and do not wash their hands after toilet and/or before going to the buffet or dining rooms.

[caribill]

I believe the HAL method where no passengers can touch serving utensils for 2days (the crew scoops and/or hands you everything) likely helps stave it off.

 

We have been on several Princess cruises where there was a noro problem.

 

Each time was well into the cruise, not in the first couple of days.

 

The noro came on board at port stops when passengers ate at restaurants that did not have proper precautions.

[shredie]

We got it move on. Sheesh!!

Welcome to Cruise Critic where no on ever moves on. ;) You'll get used to the way thing work around here. :D

I live in San Diego, I haven't heard about any Norco epidemics..

 

Someone will doubtless post a link. :rolleyes:

[brutusmom]

I am sad to say I am not surprised one bit to read this ship had an outbreak. I just returned on 4/9/16 from my first Princess cruise. From the second we stepped on board, I had major concerns. In over a dozen cruises in my life, I was almost ready to get off the ship before we set sail.

We boarded on time and went straight to our cabin to drop off our wine. Noticed that there were no wine glasses so called room service. Then used the bathroom. And it was gross! Let's just say that I know there was a woman staying in my cabin before me. How my cabin steward didn't notice to clean my toilet seat is beyond me. Went to front desk to report it and asked that my whole cabin be cleaned, for if they didn't clean that I can't imagine what else they missed. Came back 1 hour later to find that it was half cleaned off but half still on the seat! Really?? Reported a second time and demanded a new cabin with a different steward. Full ship they said.

Problem 2. Received the wineglasses. Held them up to check them out. There were fingerprints all over the rim of the glass where you would put your mouth. Really bad sanitation issues.

Problem 3. Went to buffet. Watched as one of the workers took the tongs from one food item and placed it in another. Really bad, that's cross contamination. Someone with food allergies can really become ill. I reported it the supervision there who was horrified. She ran to remove the item. 4 hours later we went back to get some fruit. The lady saw me and thank me for bringing it to her attention and assured me that she spoke to the staff. I went in with my husband to get our fruit and there it was again. A different guy going from item to item with the same spoon! Are you kidding me!!

Since I have been back, Princess has called me to talk about my concerns. I told them if these are the things I can see, I don't want to know what I don't see. I understand that things are never perfect but blood in a bathroom, dirty fingers on glasses where I place my mouth and cross contamination of food products gets places on land shut down by the board of health for a reason.

Also I found out that they don't provide flat sheets for your bed which means that who's ever naked body it was covering before, it is now laying upon mine. Do they change them after they leave? I don't know. They don't sanitize the toilets until the 3rd try!

Sorry. Know it is a long post. But Niro Virus on the Crown. Not surprised at all!

[elliair]

Some people have lousy hygiene habits and do not wash their hands after toilet and/or before going to the buffet or dining rooms.

 

I think some cultures don't use good hygiene. I saw one woman washing her mouth out with her hands cupped in a public restroom (Lido deck near buffet) on board the Star Princess. She was also gargling and spitting it out in the sink. I came unglued. I told her to stop what she was doing, that that's how noro gets started. In broken English she asked what she should do. I told her go to her cabin and do that! The cleaning lady stood by while I unleashed. The woman left and the cleaning lady thanked me. She said she's not allowed to say anything to passengers doing that. I said "well, I can!" Ugh! :eek:

[hunt182644]

One can use the hand sanitizer as much as they want but it isn't going to stop the noro. Not when I see people on Lido licking their fingers, eating off their plate then touching the spoons to serve themselves. Or sitting down in the chairs and touching the arm rests, then eating with your fingers. There's so many unsuspecting places that you can touch that hasn't been cleaned and people don't think about what they are doing. So, get in line and take your chances.

 

Always remind myself and wife keep your fingers out of your mouth. Wash hands frequently don't eat anything with your fingers. Quite a number of cruises now and no problems. Knock on wood, old superstitions can't hurt either.:D

[shredie]

Knock on wood, old superstitions can't hurt either.:D

 

Wash your knuckles after knocking that wood! :D LOL.