Navigator Northwest Passage

[Keith1010]

Operative words are too early

 

Keith

[freddie]

Perhaps the same department in Regent Operations that forgot until recently to check the tide tables and river current tables for Voyager's visit to Myanmar in December also neglected until this week to check the ice charts for the NW passage. ;)

 

Or perhaps the plan was to hire Charlton Heston to stand on the bow of the Navigator and part the ice, just as he did as Moses parting the Red Sea; but then they discovered (this week?) that he died in 2008 and was not available for the gig.

 

Or perhaps Regent Marketing is simply not communicating with Operations to sort out these trivial logistic matters before scheduling and selling cruises.

Edited August 17, 2016 by freddie

[gnomie1]

The cruise was originally scheduled from July 19 to August 18th

 

I also heard about this yesterday

 

I REALLY wanted to go on this cruise, but it is not something that my Mom would enjoy so I sought out friends to join me. The father of one of my friends who was also interested in this trip is a retired executive with an oil company and was responsible for the investigation of utilizing the Northwest Passage for the transport of oil. He told us not to get excited about the trip as planned and bet me $100 that it would not go off due to the ice conditions at the time of sailing. I wanted to post this information during one of the NorthWest Passages thread but decided against it so as not to start a major argument that Regent would never plan a cruise without due diligence.

 

The check went into the mail this morning - now have to look for another exciting adventure for next summer.

 

gnomie :)

[Travelcat2]

If Regent did not put out itineraries so far in advance, passengers would be unhappy. The flip side is that by putting out itineraries far in advance, there are more things than can happen that will change or cancel the itinerary.

 

For those who may not have noticed, the ice in Tracy Arm (Alaska) was so heavy this year that excursions just began going there. We have been to Tracy Arm in May so this is yet another unusual weather year that caused changes in to what was originally planned.

 

Freddie, in terms of the cruise that you have brought up several times, have you spoken with Regent and/or your TA? Surely they would have better answers than anyone on these boards that can only look at technical information and draw conclusions from that. There is obviously more to the story than you are aware of.

[mrlevin]

If Regent did not put out itineraries so far in advance, passengers would be unhappy. The flip side is that by putting out itineraries far in advance, there are more things than can happen that will change or cancel the itinerary.

 

Has nothing to do with putting out schedules out far in advance; it was poor timing. The Northwest Passage opened this year on 8 August; about two weeks ahead of schedule. In a normal year, even Serenity might have problems.

 

Marc

[Keith1010]

TravelCat2, this one was really a mistake. It doesn't have to do with putting out itineraries out in advance. I am really not being critical here but think that whoever did the planning for this didn't understand the window that is available to sail this route. It is a small window for cruise ships.

 

Mistakes happen. If we were all perfect we wouldn't be human. And yes companies make mistake stop because after all they are human too.

 

For those of you who were booked I hope that you have another opportunity to sail this route.

 

Keith

[Travelcat2]

Thanks for the explanation Keith. I assumed that the snow pack was too much for the Navigator this year - guess that I should not have jumped to that conclusion!

[freddie]

Keith - It does certainly appear that this scheduling was "really a mistake", aka "major blunder".

 

It is very generous of you to minimize the blunder on the basis that "mistakes happen"; but this was not a minor error. It was a serious failure to examine the easily available historical data on ice packs (not "snow packs") before selling a major cruise. That is the focus of my concern. That is to say, does Regent Marketing communicate with Regent Ops before scheduling and selling cruises? And, if so, does Regent Ops do the necessary due diligence (even such simple things as checking tide tables and ice charts) to ensure that the cruises being sold can actually deliver the schedules being sold?

[flossie009]

Freddie, in terms of the cruise that you have brought up several times, have you spoken with Regent and/or your TA? Surely they would have better answers than anyone on these boards that can only look at technical information and draw conclusions from that. There is obviously more to the story than you are aware of.

 

If you read my post 4 on the following thread you will see the difficulties in getting any answers, let alone better answers, from Regent

http://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2386135

 

Regent really do need to look at their itineraries in more detail before marketing and selling them - especially where the itinerary involves difficult and unusual routes/ports. Why disappoint customers unnecessarily?

 

I feel very sorry for those that were booked on this 'journey of a lifetime' and have been let down badly by Regent's sloppy pre-planning

Edited August 17, 2016 by flossie009

[flossie009]

The followings CC news item includes Regent's confirmation of cancellation with their reasoning:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=7184

 

Good advertising for Crystal and their preplanning of the present cruise

[Keith1010]

freddie, I hear you. Not sure how this one happened.

 

I know that Crystal was planning the one we are currently on for a couple of years before announcing it. It was a major undertaking involving a lot of carful planning and research.

 

There are several people who sail Regent often who are on our voyage so certainly something for others to consider.

 

While all but six people on board have previously sailed Crystal at least one or more times, I have met quite a few who are not regular cruisers of Crystal (some hadn't sailed Crystal in 10 or more years) and some who are not regular cruisers. And some who have never sailed a voyage of this length.

 

Keith

[captjohn]

We had wanted to do this trip on Regent but instead booked the next 2 cruises starting in Montreal.Guess we did the right/lucky thing.I wonder how they will get the ship to Montreal!! Maybe a heavy- lift helicopter ?

 

John

[iamheisenberg]

If you really want to do the Northwest Passage right, then you should wait until somebody actually does it the way the British pioneers tried to do it, from east to west!

 

Personally, I'd rather do it the Hitchcock way.

 

I suspect the only reason Crystal and Regent (well, not Regent) are going west to east is because ships are usually positioned in Alaska in summer and on the St Lawrence in the Fall. But that's just a guess.

[Keith1010]

Yep, they are in Alaska so it makes sense to do it this way.

 

We're happy.

 

Keith

[mrlevin]

An excerpt from CC news report

 

[q]"The climate variance this summer caused large Arctic ice packs to flow southerly during the month of July causing transit delays. To avoid these delays next year, our Northwest Passage navigational experts have strongly recommended postponing the cruise until mid-August. Unfortunately, this is not possible due to the impact it would have on all subsequent itineraries offered on Seven Seas Navigator."[/q]

 

I didn't realize i am a "Northwest Passage navigational expert." :confused:

 

:D

 

And to blame it on climate change is bogus; there are only a couple of years since 2007 that they could have made the transit that early.

 

:mad:

 

Marc

[Suite Travels]

Crystal has been planning the NWP cruise for over two years very carefully. All the logistics were studied before they released this for the current sailing and were sold out in a matter of days. The NWP is selling well for next year as well. Obviously Regent did not do their due diligence in the planning phase. Seems Regent as had some issue with tidal charts on other cruises as well.

 

We thought about doing the Crystal NWP but we don't want to be in a cold environment for 32 days. Love Antartica but that is only a few days of cold and beautiful. We are doing Antartica for the third time in February but we start out warm and then to cold and back to warm ending up in BA a 24 day cruise.

 

Crystal is the first cruise line to make this adventure so time will tell how this goes. If a medical issue happen on this voyage they have an ice cutter with two helicopters to evacuate pax's but if something ...God forbid if anything happens they may have a problem evacuating 900 passengers. Part of the NWP is still heavy with ice packs hopefully that won't be a problem with the ice breaker leading the way.

 

Most if not all visits will be done in Zodiacs brrrr. Zodiacs are fine for the Galapogos and wet landings because it is warm. Many of the Crystal guests will not be doing land excursions and will just remain on the ship and view the sights from there. Thirty two days of this is not interesting to us. We are leaving for a month in Africa next month which we love on a very bespoke trip like we have never had and this will be our tenth trip there so excited.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Suite Travels

[mrlevin]

Crystal has been planning the NWP cruise for over two years very carefully. All the logistics were studied before they released this for the current sailing and were sold out in a matter of days. The NWP is selling well for next year as well. Obviously Regent did not do their due diligence in the planning phase. Seems Regent as had some issue with tidal charts on other cruises as well.

 

We thought about doing the Crystal NWP but we don't want to be in a cold environment for 32 days. Love Antartica but that is only a few days of cold and beautiful. We are doing Antartica for the third time in February but we start out warm and then to cold and back to warm ending up in BA a 24 day cruise.

 

Crystal is the first cruise line to make this adventure so time will tell how this goes. If a medical issue happen on this voyage they have an ice cutter with two helicopters to evacuate pax's but if something ...God forbid if anything happens they may have a problem evacuating 900 passengers. Part of the NWP is still heavy with ice packs hopefully that won't be a problem with the ice breaker leading the way.

 

Most if not all visits will be done in Zodiacs brrrr. Zodiacs are fine for the Galapogos and wet landings because it is warm. Many of the Crystal guests will not be doing land excursions and will just remain on the ship and view the sights from there. Thirty two days of this is not interesting to us. We are leaving for a month in Africa next month which we love on a very bespoke trip like we have never had and this will be our tenth trip there so excited.

 

Helicopter not very good for evacuation as nowhere for them to evacuate to. When i took a cruise ship through Northwest Passage (yes many cruise ships have gone before) we had a passenger with broken arm that needed to say onboard all the way to Nome as only routing to get him off would have amounted to three days of travel.

 

Apparently the ice breaker they contracted is in Eastern Arctic. Won't matter as there is absolutely no ice pack in their way; in fact; they are going to have to go searching for ice flows to find bears.

 

 

 

Marc

Edited August 17, 2016 by Marq

[JMARINER]

Some follow up info. Seeing that this Northwest Passage and the subsequent voyage from Montreal to Reykjavik seeming filled up and sold out literately overnight and based on Marq prior report on ice conditions affecting the possible passage coupled with the lack of any information regarding the logistically support for the ship during this voyage, I became concerned that Regent was having a possible change of heart and possibly rethinking the whole trip.

 

I called Regent today and expressed my concerns. The Agent I spoke with seem knowledgeable of these two voyages. He said that there had been tremendous interest by many past guest and both had sold out in the last few days.

 

As far as the logistics; he was aware of the questions I asked and knows that there have bee internal discussions. Regent would be releasing their full details in the future, no date given.

........j

 

 

Gee , I feel like a real dump $h1t now.

 

Marq was kind enough to do his home work and said that Regent would have problems with this trip. Calls to Regent my myself and my agent asking for confirmation of the voyage last week were all answered that the trip was defiantly going to happen. No maybes. No "Well their might be issues."

 

I had been signed up on Crystal Serenity but jumped in favor of the Nav. Maybe there is still room, my agent is looking.

 

freddie wrote above:

It does certainly appear that this scheduling was "really a mistake", aka "major blunder".

 

It is very generous of you to minimize the blunder on the basis that "mistakes happen"; but this was not a minor error. It was a serious failure to examine the easily available historical data on ice packs (not "snow packs") before selling a major cruise. That is the focus of my concern. That is to say, does Regent Marketing communicate with Regent Ops before scheduling and selling cruises? And, if so, does Regent Ops do the necessary due diligence (even such simple things as checking tide tables and ice charts) to ensure that the cruises being sold can actually deliver the schedules being sold?

Well stated freddie. This is a marketing disaster for Regent their parent NCLH. Especially since so many others knew that this trip would not work. I half wonder if Regent jumped the gun in order to take business from Crystal. Pretty underhanded if they did.

 

For me, after 16 years, 37 Regent Voyages and over 500 days sailed, Regent may have "burned their bridges" on this one. I know that my Agent had several others booked on this trip and she says all are very upset at Regent. She is also unhappy that she was misled after having called last week. (Beside the loss of her commissions).

 

j

[Travelcat2]

I am a bit surprised that you feel so strongly about this cruise that you blame the parent company (Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings - aka NCHL Regent's parent company -- not to be confused with the stock - NCLH).

 

Yes - Regent made a mistake that is upsetting to those passengers booked on the now cancelled cruise. They deserve the blame to a certain extent. I wonder, however, how long ago they knew about this specific issue (again, not to be confused with tides which is entirely a different subject).

 

If this sends some Regent passengers to Crystal - so be it. I am confident that most (if not all) Regent customers will return after they experience this unique itinerary.

[Suite Travels]

I am a bit surprised that you feel so strongly about this cruise that you blame the parent company (Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings - aka NCHL Regent's parent company -- not to be confused with the stock - NCLH).

 

Yes - Regent made a mistake that is upsetting to those passengers booked on the now cancelled cruise. They deserve the blame to a certain extent. I wonder, however, how long ago they knew about this specific issue (again, not to be confused with tides which is entirely a different subject).

 

If this sends some Regent passengers to Crystal - so be it. I am confident that most (if not all) Regent customers will return after they experience this unique itinerary.

 

Don't be so quick to say they will return to Regent after the NWP cruise as Crystal probably will win over a few Regent customers. Crystal is going to give them a true six star red carpet experience for sure. They have to.

 

People are spending up to 120k pp for this cruise in the suites and a lot of money in the standard staterooms as well. I pray everything goes well for these people who desire to do this trip. Next year is selling out quickly.

 

The new mega yacht will be an ice cutter which is coming out in the next two years will surpass any yacht at sea. This is the one we will be waiting for which will boast large suites and cabins and speciality restaurants and other toys. I am just hoping that all this comes to fruition. Two new ocean liners should be out by 2019. Fortunately Crystal now is owned by Genting and they do have very deep pockets. Crystal has growing pains for sure but Genting is willing to put forth a huge investment. As people say time will tell.

[JMARINER]

I am a bit surprised that you feel so strongly about this cruise that you blame the parent company (Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings - aka NCHL Regent's parent company -- not to be confused with the stock - NCLH).

 

Yes - Regent made a mistake that is upsetting to those passengers booked on the now cancelled cruise. They deserve the blame to a certain extent. I wonder, however, how long ago they knew about this specific issue (again, not to be confused with tides which is entirely a different subject).

 

If this sends some Regent passengers to Crystal - so be it. I am confident that most (if not all) Regent customers will return after they experience this unique itinerary.

 

Duh, HCLH is a big company and I would think that they would, a the parent have, as such a large company a little more forward information.

 

Other posters here, who are not experts, figured out the problem long before Regent did. That fact alone make the Company look grossly incompetent. How do you screw up a ship movement from one ocean to another? Beside the major inconvenient to the passengers, and a public relations fiasco, how many millions of dollars is this going tot cost the cruise line in passenger apology money ($1,250 per cabin, minimum), loss of use of advance booking monies, and ship logistics?

 

Think about it. They have a ship in Alaska that they have to get to Montreal in a relatively short amount of time. How are they going to cobble that mess together? The timing, pilots, Canal slotting, shore excursions, docking and berthing, etc.

 

You think that none of this isn't going to affect the bottom line of shareholder earning on top of an already gloomy 2017 NCLH earning forecast by Mr Del Rio a few weeks ago?

 

NCHL is a subsidiarity of NCLH. Is no one there looking?

 

j

[gnomie1]

Knowing how much time and effort that Crystal put into the planning of their trip and the quick sell-out of the first sailing, one has to wonder if Regent then thought, "hey, we could do this too" without the necessary research. This is not a problem that "just occurred" but something that people who are familiar with the area knew about. As I had mentioned in an earlier post, someone with experience with ships traveling the Northwest Passage told me months ago that the trip would not go - when I spoke to him today he was actually surprised it took Regent this long to cancel the voyage.

 

As far as the Regent representatives declaring that the itinerary was selling out just days before the cancellation - another example of poor management. Often management believes that they can cut expenses in the "back office" (i.e., with the mistaken belief that customer service does not generate revenue) but in a situation where one is advertising themselves as a six star luxury experience, one would expect that to start from the first interaction with a company and not upon embarkation.

 

gnomie :)

[Travelcat2]

JMARINER: Given the fact that NCHL is the third largest cruise company, I wonder if this will truly affect their bottom line. For some reason, I just don't think this will have much of a long term impact (except perhaps to the 250 or so couples that booked this cruise).

 

Suite Travels: Regent customers have had years to switch from Regent to Crystal and, with few exceptions, it simply doesn't happen (and visa versa) even though Crystal passengers have visited the Regent board to tout their favorite cruise line. It will be interesting to see how many people on this thread will still be cruising Regent in 5 years. It could surprise you (or it could surprise me).

 

gnomie: Your opinion of Regent sounds quite low (based on your posts). And, you seem to know a lot of people with better insight into the situation than either you or I. Given what seems to be your opinion of Regent, there must be a good reason that you continue to sail with them. I truly would like to know what that reason is because I don't think that I would continue to cruise on a line that was so disappointing to me.

[iamheisenberg]

Speaking of low opinions, the guy who wrote this article, published today, does not think much of luxury ships traveling the NWP, and thinks even less of the passengers!

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2016/08/17/crystal_serenity_s_northwest_passage_cruise_is_a_festival_of_environmental.html

 

Not very flattering, but that's just like one opinion, man.

[Fletcher]

If you fancy doing the Northwest Passage this is the ship I'd do it on -

 

https://www.hl-************/cruisefinder/details/cruise/BRE1713

 

These people are market leaders in this sort of voyage.