Navigator a disappointment- dogs & other issues

[hannibal54]

My question on this subject is, what about people like me who are allergic to dogs? I guess we don't have any rights. I have been on airplanes where they don't serve peanuts because somebody is allergic to them, but don't care about people allergic to dogs. Because of my allergy I get aggravated when being around dogs. Not to mention seeing people putting their fingers in the dogs mouth, then put it in their mouths. I don't care how clean a dogs mouth is, this sickens me when I see it.

[Tee & Chilli]

As a service dog owner who has sailed many times with my dog, the behavior you described appears out of line with a real service dog. Some people are falsely passing off their dogs as service dogs. This includes buying fake vests and harnesses online. A true service dog is trained to go under the table while at restaurants and will not move until instructed to do so.

 

My service dog has been on 3 cruises, numerous flights, zoo, Disney World, Seaworld, restaurants and he goes to work with me. He is trained to be a good boy everywhere!!

 

It's a shame these owners of fake service dogs are making it bad for us that truly have a well behaved service dog.

[LilBlackDress]

Don't ever go to France ( or most places in Europe) where dogs in restaurants and sitting at tables is perfectly normal [emoji190].

 

 

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When I lived in California, there were several dog friendly restaurants. Knowing how well they clean and sanitize after each guest, that didn't bother me to eat there. I know the staff does a good job but I am not sure they are trained to deal with dogs...

 

As a service dog owner who has sailed many times with my dog, the behavior you described appears out of line with a real service dog. Some people are falsely passing off their dogs as service dogs. This includes buying fake vests and harnesses online. A true service dog is trained to go under the table while at restaurants and will not move until instructed to do so.

 

My service dog has been on 3 cruises, numerous flights, zoo, Disney World, Seaworld, restaurants and he goes to work with me. He is trained to be a good boy everywhere!!

 

It's a shame these owners of fake service dogs are making it bad for us that truly have a well behaved service dog.

 

Just curious, when flying is your dog in a carrier or not? Reason I am asking is, I flew several times cross country with my dog. A few flights I saw what I would consider large dogs, too large for an in plane carrier (IMHO) cram into a carrier and I wasn't sure if they were service dogs or not. If not, I would have thought they would have been in a hard carrier in the belly of the plane.

[chengkp75]

As a service dog owner who has sailed many times with my dog, the behavior you described appears out of line with a real service dog. Some people are falsely passing off their dogs as service dogs. This includes buying fake vests and harnesses online. A true service dog is trained to go under the table while at restaurants and will not move until instructed to do so.

 

My service dog has been on 3 cruises, numerous flights, zoo, Disney World, Seaworld, restaurants and he goes to work with me. He is trained to be a good boy everywhere!!

 

It's a shame these owners of fake service dogs are making it bad for us that truly have a well behaved service dog.

 

I have never had a problem with a true, trained service dog, and their owners are always aware of the problems their animals can create, so they are sensitive about it. Agree with you that the behavior is out of line with what service animals should show.

 

Another thing that I can't get around is the cost for people to get their pets documented for the various foreign countries, just to take them on a cruise.

 

As for the PP who quoted the ADA, know that as a foreign flag ship, the ship does not have to meet all of the requirements of the ADA, as laid out in the US Supreme Court decision Specter v. NCL. The court specifically exempted the ships' "internal policies and procedures" from compliance. So, the cruise lines could say that service animals are not allowed in the MDR, for instance, only in the buffet, or limit them to one restaurant, or one area of one restaurant. The only thing holding them back from enforcing strict behavior standards on these animals is the cost of litigation.

 

As to why there is no certification required, it is one of our crazy American "feel good" and "don't offend anyone" laws, because having to register or certify a service animal would identify and make public a person's disability. Businesses are not allowed to ask what a person's disability is, only to ask what the specific task the service animal is trained to perform.

[BobnJac]

Nope. I don't really care about dogs. I like dogs, but it doesn't bother me one way or another if they are onboard.

 

 

 

Margaritas are not on the cocktail menu for the DL or CL, so it is not surprising me to that you were not able to use your vouchers for them.

 

 

 

Same thing with the buy 1 get 1 free wine by the glass. That is what the coupon is for. It is nice that you were able to get them to discount a bottle for you previously.

 

 

 

I'm sorry you were disappointed. And I understand why you would be. But if they are going to be consistent, then it should be the same rules on each ship.

 

 

 

There were many things that we used to receive that made us feel special. We don't seem to really get them anymore, but we also understand that the ships and service have changed. We have lowered our expectations accordingly. If we do receive a nice gesture, we are both surprised and delighted. :)

 

 

Can whole heartedly agree with all of the above except the dog thing. This service dog thing seems to be an american term and as usual is actively abused. Too many of these rats on sticks dressed as clowns ( thats the dogs not the owners) frequenting ships , restaurants and bars. Perhaps a visit to a therapist would be in order, or is it as a result of such that there are so many of these critters about?

[normr]

Those are not service dogs, here are the typical service dogs behaviors:

 

 

3. Manners: a dog must acquire proper social behavior skills. It includes at a minimum:

 

No aggressive behavior toward people or other animals - no biting, snapping, snarling, growling or lunging and barking at them when working off your property.

No soliciting food or petting from other people while on duty.

No sniffing merchandise or people or intruding into another dog’s space while on duty.

Socialize to tolerate strange sights, sounds, odors etc. in a wide variety of public settings.

Ignores food on the floor or dropped in the dog’s vicinity while working outside the home.

Works calmly on leash. No unruly behavior or unnecessary vocalizations in public settings.

No urinating or defecating in public unless given a specific command or signal to toilet in an appropriate place

 

 

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[Panda3]

Service dogs deal with more than just blindness. A service dog is any dog that's trained to mitigate a life-altering disability. This can be blindness, yes, but it can also be mobility issues, hearing problems, PTSD, severe diabetes, seizures, severe migraines, and so on.

 

 

* Hint: The ADA DOES NOT REQUIRE CERTIFICATION. This would be an unreasonable hindrance for disabled people who can't afford or acquire certification (unless you want to pay for it with your taxes?) so all those fake places online that offer certification? They're scams. Says so right here: http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html#cert

 

 

Thank you for educating me, I hope I didn't come across as insensitive. I think there are a small bunch that make the rest of the group look bad.

[Clarea]

But surely the ADA could say they need to be certified by a registered agency.

 

It doesn't impact me but it just seems crazy.

That's the USA these days.:rolleyes:

[Sunkissed Mommy]

 

 

Dogs on Navigator: We were in Chops and the table next to us had a dog in the ladies lap eating from the table. Dog was in clothes and a diaper with a toy in its mouth. A small dog, but sure made me wonder if a dog had previously been at our table and how well it was cleaned. The dog was in the CL and DL and just negatively affected our experience and many others. Then there was a loose dog on the promenade in the cafe just running around licking folks. Next time we saw it the same dog was in a ladies lap at the table. This was a basset hound size dog. I love my pets, but I don't love cruising with other folks pets and I sure don't think they should be at the tables or loose. Then we went to the main dining room for a salad at lunch one day. Low and behold a dog was seated at the table beside us. The owners had a difficult time getting the dog to settle down. We decided to move on. I know, I know before you jump on me re service dogs. These dogs did not act trained as service dogs. Just curious if others feel as I do about dogs at the table.

 

I was on Enchantment this past week and there was a dog onboard. Don't even get me started on this one... The owner left it in it's room most of the time. We'd hear it bark when we'd walk by the room. The owner was always busy sunning herself and drinking by the pool. I don't know how she even passed it off as a service dog when she never had it with her but a few times...

 

It infuriates me because there are people who legitimately have & need service dogs. These entitled people who buy fake vests online and tell everyone their dog is a service dog, just so they don't have to leave fluffy home. GRRRR.

[makiramarlena]

Per the ADA, no documentation or certifications can be required for service dogs.

 

If the cruise ships are going by ADA they can ask only 2 questions of the dog owner:

 

1) is this a service dog to assist with a disability?

 

Yes or no answer will do. Owner does not need to describe the disability.

 

2) what task does this dog perform to assist you?

 

Basic description of the task is enough. The ship personnel can't ask that the dog demonstrate the task or any specific questions about the ower's disability.

 

Per ADA, an emotional support or therapy pet that does not perform a task is not a service animal. (cuddling is not a task. Guard dogs don't count as service dogs. Just because having the dog along makes the owner feel better doesn't make it a service dog). But, most businesses don't want the extra hassle that comes with distinguishing a therapy dog from a service dog.

 

Pretty much anybody who is so inclined can pass off their pet as a service animal, and unless the animal is disruptive or un housebroken, they can bring it anywhere. It is true that restaurants don't have to allow dogs on laps or being fed from the table. But likely they prefer not to cause a scene with the owner.

[critterchick]

OP, it sounds as if you were disappointed that Navigator followed the rules to the letter. I love it when a ship is flexible, but I'm not disappointed when they aren't. And I don't publicize it, because I have heard of Miami finding out when a ship is overly generous and telling them to knock it off.

 

As for the dog issue, I love them lots but if they are't properly trained as service dogs, I don't want to see them on a ship.

[lovesthebeach2]

From what I understand, you just have to declare them a service animal:

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/contentWithHero.do?pagename=service_animals

 

I love dogs and I have no issue at all with true service dogs, but this sounds like a therapy dog and that's totally different. We have seen service dogs in the MDR but they were always under the table. They were trained. Unfortunately it's very inexpensive to go online and purchase a card and vest for any dog that you want to fly for free or bring into a restaurant and its getting out of hand. Eventually someone will get hurt by an untrained dog and its not right.

[PH8]

I know of 3 Pinnacles who bring their " service dogs" and I would bet my last dollar, they are not legally certified.

 

My last cruise a woman( in her wheelchair) had the dog on her lap in the CL and in Chops( for breakfast)

That dog was right at table level and she was feeding him.

 

Very touchy subject to me. Most cases they do not want to pay a kennel bill so Fido cruises along.

[A&L_Ont]

I know of 3 Pinnacles who bring their " service dogs" and I would bet my last dollar, they are not legally certified.

 

My last cruise a woman( in her wheelchair) had the dog on her lap in the CL and in Chops( for breakfast)

That dog was right at table level and she was feeding him.

 

Very touchy subject to me. Most cases they do not want to pay a kennel bill so Fido cruises along.

 

With the dogs eating from the table they save the money on kibble, over and above the kennel bill.;)

[tip]

...Dogs on Navigator: We were in Chops and the table next to us had a dog in the ladies lap eating from the table. Dog was in clothes and a diaper with a toy in its mouth. A small dog, but sure made me wonder if a dog had previously been at our table and how well it was cleaned. The dog was in the CL and DL and just negatively affected our experience and many others. Then there was a loose dog on the promenade in the cafe just running around licking folks. Next time we saw it the same dog was in a ladies lap at the table. This was a basset hound size dog. I love my pets, but I don't love cruising with other folks pets and I sure don't think they should be at the tables or loose. Then we went to the main dining room for a salad at lunch one day. Low and behold a dog was seated at the table beside us. The owners had a difficult time getting the dog to settle down. We decided to move on. I know, I know before you jump on me re service dogs. These dogs did not act trained as service dogs. Just curious if others feel as I do about dogs at the table....

 

Okay, this is definitely over the edge. I would have asked the maître de to have the dog removed from the dining room. If he/she refused, I would have walked out and refused to pay any charges from that visit to Chops on my Sea Pass card. Someone has to start saying that, "Enough is enough" to this foolishness!

Edited May 22, 2016 by tip

[reallyitsmema]

My question on this subject is, what about people like me who are allergic to dogs? I guess we don't have any rights. I have been on airplanes where they don't serve peanuts because somebody is allergic to them, but don't care about people allergic to dogs. Because of my allergy I get aggravated when being around dogs. Not to mention seeing people putting their fingers in the dogs mouth, then put it in their mouths. I don't care how clean a dogs mouth is, this sickens me when I see it.

 

Have you ever put in your reservation that you are allergic to dogs? We recently flew Jetblue for the first time and were very impressed with them. As we were waiting to board, they called a man up to the desk. Our seats were beside the desk, so we could hear the conversation. The airline rep told the man that she saw that he had noted on his reservation that he was allergic to cats. There were two dogs that were going to be on our flight and she wanted to make sure he didn't have issues with dogs too and offered to try to move his seat if he couldn't sit near a dog. I had never witnessed that before and thought it was great.

 

Not sure if all airlines do something similar but might be worth looking into in the future.:)

[CVU]

It's one thing to see a well behaved service dog on the floor next to a passenger but on someone's lap in the MDR . . . yuk! It sounds disgusting! I would ask for another table if I saw that!

 

I hope you reported your thoughts about this on your post-cruise survey.

 

I would be sure to make comments on the survey or if not done, then send them an email now to let them know. :eek:

 

Proper Service Dogs are very very well behaved. Sit on the floor and are hardly noticed!!

These sound like Pets that they got a Drs letter for and not Trained Service Dogs? At the table is a huge NoNo!!:eek: Only by letting them know will things change.

[A2Mich]

In my state (Colorado) we are technically not allowed to have non-service animals inside public establishments, including restaurants. However, the last several years there has been a cultural shift where that rule is flouted and ignored. People in Colorado, especially in Boulder where I live, take their dogs everywhere, and I see at least one dog in the grocery store every time I go, and there are always several dogs on restaurant patios, even though the law says you can't even allow them on the patios if you serve food there.

 

As long as the dogs are well behaved, sit still at their owners feet, don't get riled up by other dogs and don't beg for food from tables, everyone, and I mean everyone, completely ignores the "no dogs" rule. I thought it was weird at first, but have gotten so used to it that even I don't bat an eye, and im not a huge dog fan. I like them well enough, I even own one, but I wouldn't take it to the store, or a restaurant, and certainly not a cruise; I think that's taking it a bit too far. And sitting in your lap while you eat? Super gross.

 

 

Same thing in Fort Collins - always see dogs at King Soopers, Lowe's, Home Depot, Whole Foods, Sprouts, etc. Doesn't surprise me a bit in Boulder for sure, but is happening more and more here. I also don't have a problem with true service animals, but simply dragging them through the store so you don't have to leave a PET at home is another. Have also seen on a few occasions where store management has asked owners to leave their pets outside, unless they are true service animals, but not very often.

[Cindy]

Okay, this is definitely over the edge. I would have asked the maître de to have the dog removed from the dining room. If he/she refused, I would have walked out and refused to pay any charges from that visit to Chops on my Sea Pass card. Someone has to start saying that, "Enough is enough" to this foolishness!

 

I would also have spoken up. Service animals don't do things like sit in their owner's lap and eat from the table at a restaurant. I think it's a shame that the selfish and self centered are passing pets off as service animals. It makes things more difficult for people who have a genuine need for a service animal. Likewise, if my cabin was near someone who left their "service" dog there alone and barking all day I would go to Guest Services and be persistent until something was done. I'm all for accommodations for those who truly need them, but I also have rights and paid good money for my vacation. If the people stretching the truth and violating ship policy are negatively impacting my enjoyment you better believe I will say something!

 

Even with true service animals, I think there is probably a limit to how many a ship can accommodate at one time before the animals become a liability from a sanitation/exercise/space perspective. People bringing pets along could have the same effect on a person with a true need as a physically able person booking an accessible cabin...they're taking a "spot" from someone who legitimately needs it.

 

 

Have you ever put in your reservation that you are allergic to dogs? We recently flew Jetblue for the first time and were very impressed with them. As we were waiting to board, they called a man up to the desk. Our seats were beside the desk, so we could hear the conversation. The airline rep told the man that she saw that he had noted on his reservation that he was allergic to cats. There were two dogs that were going to be on our flight and she wanted to make sure he didn't have issues with dogs too and offered to try to move his seat if he couldn't sit near a dog. I had never witnessed that before and thought it was great.

 

Not sure if all airlines do something similar but might be worth looking into in the future.:)

 

I'll have to try putting my cat allergy on my next reservation. I had a REALLY bad experience with one next to me on a United flight in November. The flight attendant couldn't or wouldn't attempt to reseat me. My eyes almost immediately swelled up, and things got progressively worse during the flight when the passenger put the carrier in her lap and began stroking the yowling beast!:eek:

 

Thank goodness it was a short flight. I think the whole plane was ready to strangle the owner by the time we landed. She didn't help matters by not apologizing and refusing to leave the cat under the seat. I just don't understand why I could get arrested for consuming a peanut on a plane, but it's OK for people to bring non-service animals into the cabin. Luckily my allergy is just eyes and skin, but what would the reaction be if someone's allergy was an asthma attack?

Edited May 22, 2016 by Cindy

[Luvmypetz]

In my state (Colorado) we are technically not allowed to have non-service animals inside public establishments, including restaurants. However, the last several years there has been a cultural shift where that rule is flouted and ignored. People in Colorado, especially in Boulder where I live, take their dogs everywhere, and I see at least one dog in the grocery store every time I go, and there are always several dogs on restaurant patios, even though the law says you can't even allow them on the patios if you serve food there.

 

 

 

As long as the dogs are well behaved, sit still at their owners feet, don't get riled up by other dogs and don't beg for food from tables, everyone, and I mean everyone, completely ignores the "no dogs" rule. I thought it was weird at first, but have gotten so used to it that even I don't bat an eye, and im not a huge dog fan. I like them well enough, I even own one, but I wouldn't take it to the store, or a restaurant, and certainly not a cruise; I think that's taking it a bit too far. And sitting in your lap while you eat? Super gross.

 

 

There's been a cultural shift in this country on many issues; once it starts, there's no stopping

[PH8]

Service dogs are NOT ever allowed to be left in the cabin alone.And they are NOT allowed to eat at the table.......I highlighted a few lines right from RCCL's page.It really is a shame no crew/staff member will to see to it,this is not done.They are afraid to upset the passenger..

 

I was in the CL once with a Pinnacle couple with a dog........the man told the concierge he was bringing Fido back to the cabin...........he left and came back without the dog.YET,does the concierge say anything?? NOPE!:mad:

 

 

Same ship,different concierge is when I saw the dog on the lady's lap while she was feeding it the nightly hors d'oeuvres..:mad::mad:

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/contentWithHero.do?pagename=service_animals

 

****Note that the ship's staff is not required to care for the dog, nor can the dog be left in the stateroom unattended.

 

****

If the service dog's behavior creates a fundamental alteration or a direct threat to safety, the dog may be denied boarding or removed from the ship along with the owner at the guest's expense. Examples include: growling, barking excessively, initiating unsolicited contact, biting other guests and/or crewmembers, failure to use designated relief areas, sitting on furniture, eating from the table, etc.

[cruisegirl1]

We recently did an Oasis cruise followed by an 8 day Navigator cruise. Was very interested to note the differences moving from one ship directly to another. We have cruised on Navigator several times and love the ship. This time we were disappointed. Had 3 issues that weren't that big, but were irritating.

 

 

Vintages: Went in to use our buy 1 glass of wine and get one glass free. Both hubby and I had saved this as we ALWAYS use both ours at the same time and get a nice bottle of wine for 1/2 price. A previous sommelier on Navigator suggested we do this. Have done it on every cruise since and there have been a lot of them. We are Diamond Plus. This bartender looked at us like we were crazy and said we couldn't do that. A glass of wine is typically 5 - 6 oz pour, especially on the expensive ones. A bottle of wine has 25 oz. She missed a nice tip.

 

.

 

Can you clarify... are you served the 4 glasses (depending on the pour roughly 16- 22 oz - almost a full bottle) or has there been some sort of deal made to give you a whole bottle?

 

Thanks.

 

M

[Paulette3028]

We recently did an Oasis cruise followed by an 8 day Navigator cruise. Was very interested to note the differences moving from one ship directly to another. We have cruised on Navigator several times and love the ship. This time we were disappointed. Had 3 issues that weren't that big, but were irritating.

 

Dogs on Navigator: We were in Chops and the table next to us had a dog in the ladies lap eating from the table. Dog was in clothes and a diaper with a toy in its mouth. A small dog, but sure made me wonder if a dog had previously been at our table and how well it was cleaned. The dog was in the CL and DL and just negatively affected our experience and many others. Then there was a loose dog on the promenade in the cafe just running around licking folks. Next time we saw it the same dog was in a ladies lap at the table. This was a basset hound size dog. I love my pets, but I don't love cruising with other folks pets and I sure don't think they should be at the tables or loose. Then we went to the main dining room for a salad at lunch one day. Low and behold a dog was seated at the table beside us. The owners had a difficult time getting the dog to settle down. We decided to move on. I know, I know before you jump on me re service dogs. These dogs did not act trained as service dogs. Just curious if others feel as I do about dogs at the table..............

 

Still loyal to Royal, but will make certain we don't eat next to a dog going forward. Understand RC has to allow "service dogs" though anyone can order the certificate from the internet and it is getting abused. I have nothing against a true service dog that is trained and behaves as a service dog. I do not believe RC should allow dogs at the tables in laps and I certainly think a service dog should be on a leash to adequately provide "the necessary service."

 

I do wish rules were consistent between the different RC ships. I also wish Navigator was like it was on our numerous previous cruises.

 

From what I understand, you just have to declare them a service animal:

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/contentWithHero.do?pagename=service_animals

 

Thank you to Clarea for the link to Royal's position on dogs.

 

In my mind there are two issues at play here: (1) is the allowances that Royal puts forth and then (2) the enforcement of their policy (remember enforcement is never easy for companies to prevent poor customer service issues), and then there is the necessary part OTHER cruisers will have to play in the situation.

 

From the Accessibility Onboard of Service Animals it states:

 

(1) A service dog is defined as "any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of a person with a disability." Service dogs are not considered pets

(2) Service dogs are permitted to accompany the person with a disability in all public areas, including dining venues. While in public areas, service dogs must be on a leash, harness or other restraining device. Due to health regulations, service dogs are not permitted in pools, whirlpools or spas.

(3) If the guest chooses to disembark the ship at a port at which the service dog must remain onboard, the guest must make arrangements to ensure that the dog is cared for. Note that the ship's staff is not required to care for the dog, nor can the dog be left in the stateroom unattended.

(4) If the service dog's behavior creates a fundamental alteration or a direct threat to safety, the dog may be denied boarding or removed from the ship along with the owner at the guest's expense. Examples include: growling, barking excessively, initiating unsolicited contact, biting other guests and/or crewmembers, failure to use designated relief areas, sitting on furniture, eating from the table, etc.

 

I absolutely share your issue about the dogs you came into contact with onboard your sailing. Now that I know, thanks to clarea what exactly is allowed or expected to be tolerated onboard....I CAN TELL YOU THIS, if this cruiser saw the behaviors that you saw and (now I know) are not supposed to be allowed by Royals own Accessibility standards I would have had some serious conversations about GETTING THOSE CRUISERS and their dog, off the ship at the cruisers expense.

 

There was a different poster in this thread that said a dog was left in the cabin while the owner was sunbathing and enjoying other activities on the ship......sure doesn't sound like a true 'service animal' but more like a cruiser who wanted to save money on a kennel for pooch.

 

I am not a dog hater, but what you saw is not to be allowed, based on Royal's policy....but the last issue is HOW MANY cruisers want to be the cruiser that takes it up the ladder to the captain if need be and get those cruisers off the ship with their pooch.

 

Truly trained service animals will never be the real problem, but it will be all those fake ones, that make it tougher for those that seriously need their service animal.

[Enforcer]

Hi All,

 

Just a quick question, do cruise lines charge for dogs to be on board?

 

I have never seen a dog on board a ship.

 

Pete

[FUN33]

We have yet to see a "true" service dog on any ship. A true service dog cost's thousand of dollars and actually delivers a service to a person who has a genuine disability. Every dog we have ever seen on a cruise is a very poor substitute for a Teddy Bear for a passenger who obviously has emotional problems. Have no idea why RCI feels compelled to irritate 3,500 passengers to accommodate 1 or 2 wackos, but we wish Miami would come to their senses and stop this nonsense. We are SICK OF IT!!!!!!!!!!