Oooops, just hit the dock in Ketchikan (Several Threads Merged)

[twins_to_alaska]

Just posted this on the "Ketchikan next cruise" thread

 

Today Solstice has moved to berth 4 as only 3 ships in port on Sunday.

Not sure where Inifinity will end up or for later weeks.

 

http://www.krbd.org/2016/06/03/celeb...etchikan-dock/

 

"With one berth out of use, Corporon said some cruise ships will have to anchor up in Tongass Narrows and come to shore via lightering boat. Others will shift docks. For example, the Celebrity Solstice will dock at Berth 4 Sunday and the Radiance of the Seas will tie up at Berth 2."

Edited June 5, 2016 by twins_to_alaska

[EbayCruiser]

Over on the Holland America board someone explains that the Infinity would have crashed into the Zaandam ship since the wind had gusted and was pushing him in that direction. He continued at the speed he was going to miss the Zaandam and hit the pier (the lesser of two evils).

 

Not sure if this correct or not but the captain made the right decision to miss another cruise ship IMO.

[Laszlo]

Over on the Holland America board someone explains that the Infinity would have crashed into the Zaandam ship since the wind had gusted and was pushing him in that direction. He continued at the speed he was going to miss the Zaandam and hit the pier (the lesser of two evils).

 

Not sure if this correct or not but the captain made the right decision to miss another cruise ship IMO.

 

Makes sense sort of...........Sounds like the ship is under powered for the wind conditions. I feel bad for the topless woman in the port hole window at 2:10 :eek:

Edited June 5, 2016 by Laszlo

[tikibargirl]

Has anyone heard any updates on the ship's status and if there is a change in the itinerary ? I just listened to this radio clip I found online.

 

http://www.krbd.org/2016/06/03/celebrity-cruise-ship-infinity-hits-damages-ketchikan-dock/

[Phxazzcruisers]

Has anyone heard any updates on the ship's status and if there is a change in the itinerary ? I just listened to this radio clip I found online.

 

http://www.krbd.org/2016/06/03/celebrity-cruise-ship-infinity-hits-damages-ketchikan-dock/

 

No change at all.

[Phxazzcruisers]

Over on the Holland America board someone explains that the Infinity would have crashed into the Zaandam ship since the wind had gusted and was pushing him in that direction. He continued at the speed he was going to miss the Zaandam and hit the pier (the lesser of two evils).

 

Not sure if this correct or not but the captain made the right decision to miss another cruise ship IMO.

 

That is exactly correct. We were in the penthouse at the back of the ship and it was a very near miss. It was a great decision to hit the dock instead of the HAL docked there. That would have caused substantially more damage.

[Phxazzcruisers]

So, is the ship back on course as scheduled?

 

Yes, we stayed 2 1/2 hours longer in Ketchikan so the guests could see more of the town and are just arriving in Vancouver now.

[FLACRUISER99]

1. The Master is always in command of his vessel except in the Panama and Suez canals. Except for those two places the Master is always in Command and is responsible for his vessel.

 

2' date=' The MASTER can, but is not required to give the command of the vessel navigation and maneuvering to a pilot, but the Master is still in command. The Pilot is there to offer assistance to the Master and provide detailed expert knowledge of the local waters.

 

3.Involving a Marine casualty or accident the Master is always responsible of his vessel. The Pilot can also be held liable for his actions or mistakes, but the bottom line is still the Master.

 

I am sorry, but the USCG Officer is wrong. I sailed US Merchant Marine 10 years and 30 as a marine surveyor and investigator.

 

AKK[/quote']Pilot takes the con, Panama Canal yes, Suez Canal No. However there is a steep fine for disregarding the Pilots instruction in the Suez canal.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Pilot takes the con, Panama Canal yes, Suez Canal No. However there is a steep fine for disregarding the Pilots instruction in the Suez canal.

 

Well we will have to disagree, unless the changed the laws in the last 30 years. I have taken 2 tankers though the Suez and was relived by the Pilot.

 

AKK

Edited June 5, 2016 by Tonka's Skipper

[grandgeezer]

Well we will have to disagree' date=' unless the changed the laws in the last 30 years. I have taken 2 tankers though the Suez and was relived by the Pilot.

 

AKK[/quote']

 

There might be a difference whether it being a commercial or passenger ship. With up to 8,000 lives at stake I'd much rather have the Captain in charge. With all the different ships out there, I can't see anybody being an expert on them all.

[contentsam]

Here is a link to local tv news.

http://www.krbd.org/2016/06/03/celebrity-cruise-ship-infinity-hits-damages-ketchikan-dock/

[Despegue]

Guys,

 

So much blame from so many know all's here...

 

Unless you were on the bridge at the time of the incident

And have your STCW certificate, may I kindly suggest to refrain from blaming the Navigation crew, including Captain Berdos or the local Pilot? Thank you.

 

From what I can see, it IS possible that a collision with ms. Zaandam was averted, and it is obvious that the wind was not only very strong, but also gusty.

Berthing a large vessel requires considerable skill, even more so in challenging weather. Just like landing a widebody jet in gusty conditions.

One thing is certain. Celebrity operates a "no blame" policy, as do ALL Safety conscious cruise lines ( and airlines).

 

The incident will be analysed, conclusions made, recomendations given and if necessary extra or new training given either fleetwide of to those involved on the incident. Lessons will be learned.

Only if there was a DELIBERATE disregard of Standard Operating Procedures and/or Limitations, Diciplinary action will be taken.

 

Best regards,

 

Despegue

Captain B747-400

Chairman of TCAS Maritime and Aviation Safety

[Hydrokitty]

Guys,

 

So much blame from so many know all's here...

 

Unless you were on the bridge at the time of the incident

And have your STCW certificate, may I kindly suggest to refrain from blaming the Navigation crew, including Captain Berdos or the local Pilot? Thank you.

 

From what I can see, it IS possible that a collision with ms. Zaandam was averted, and it is obvious that the wind was not only very strong, but also gusty.

Berthing a large vessel requires considerable skill, even more so in challenging weather. Just like landing a widebody jet in gusty conditions.

One thing is certain. Celebrity operates a "no blame" policy, as do ALL Safety conscious cruise lines ( and airlines).

 

The incident will be analysed, conclusions made, recomendations given and if necessary extra or new training given either fleetwide of to those involved on the incident. Lessons will be learned.

Only if there was a DELIBERATE disregard of Standard Operating Procedures and/or Limitations, Diciplinary action will be taken.

 

Best regards,

 

Despegue

Captain B747-400

Chairman of TCAS Maritime and Aviation Safety

 

Thank you!!!!

[Roses2]

Yes Captain. Thanks for your incisive, logical, and truthful post.

 

Command of a ship or airplane is a daunting task.

 

The expertise of those who have not been there and done that boggles the mind.

 

Retired military aviator

[Merriem]

Guys,

 

So much blame from so many know all's here...

 

Unless you were on the bridge at the time of the incident

And have your STCW certificate, may I kindly suggest to refrain from blaming the Navigation crew, including Captain Berdos or the local Pilot? Thank you.

 

From what I can see, it IS possible that a collision with ms. Zaandam was averted, and it is obvious that the wind was not only very strong, but also gusty.

Berthing a large vessel requires considerable skill, even more so in challenging weather. Just like landing a widebody jet in gusty conditions.

One thing is certain. Celebrity operates a "no blame" policy, as do ALL Safety conscious cruise lines ( and airlines).

 

The incident will be analysed, conclusions made, recomendations given and if necessary extra or new training given either fleetwide of to those involved on the incident. Lessons will be learned.

Only if there was a DELIBERATE disregard of Standard Operating Procedures and/or Limitations, Diciplinary action will be taken.

 

Best regards,

 

Despegue

Captain B747-400

Chairman of TCAS Maritime and Aviation Safety

 

Your comments were needed and well said. Thank you

[Phxazzcruisers]

Guys,

 

So much blame from so many know all's here...

 

Unless you were on the bridge at the time of the incident

And have your STCW certificate, may I kindly suggest to refrain from blaming the Navigation crew, including Captain Berdos or the local Pilot? Thank you.

 

From what I can see, it IS possible that a collision with ms. Zaandam was averted, and it is obvious that the wind was not only very strong, but also gusty.

Berthing a large vessel requires considerable skill, even more so in challenging weather. Just like landing a widebody jet in gusty conditions.

One thing is certain. Celebrity operates a "no blame" policy, as do ALL Safety conscious cruise lines ( and airlines).

 

The incident will be analysed, conclusions made, recomendations given and if necessary extra or new training given either fleetwide of to those involved on the incident. Lessons will be learned.

Only if there was a DELIBERATE disregard of Standard Operating Procedures and/or Limitations, Diciplinary action will be taken.

 

Best regards,

 

Despegue

Captain B747-400

Chairman of TCAS Maritime and Aviation Safety

 

Very well said. Thank you!!!

[Tonka's Skipper]

There might be a difference whether it being a commercial or passenger ship. With up to 8,000 lives at stake I'd much rather have the Captain in charge. With all the different ships out there, I can't see anybody being an expert on them all.

 

Canal transit are considerably different then a average harbor. While I can see and respect your point about the Captain knowing his vessel, a canal pilot knows so much more about the canal, banks, turns, currents, water depths and the effect of bank/hull suctions and lastly the locks themselves in the Panama canal, I have to side with the local knowledge a pilot brings. Most ships react in similar manners.

 

Now having said all that, the large cruise ships may indeed be the exception. I have never sailed one of the new cruise ships and would expect the Pilot and Master would work very closely together. Thrusters and twin screws or pods make handling a large cruise vessels easier, but experience with the vessel counts as well.

 

AKK

[Krazy Kruizers]

Guys,

 

So much blame from so many know all's here...

 

Unless you were on the bridge at the time of the incident

And have your STCW certificate, may I kindly suggest to refrain from blaming the Navigation crew, including Captain Berdos or the local Pilot? Thank you.

 

From what I can see, it IS possible that a collision with ms. Zaandam was averted, and it is obvious that the wind was not only very strong, but also gusty.

Berthing a large vessel requires considerable skill, even more so in challenging weather. Just like landing a widebody jet in gusty conditions.

One thing is certain. Celebrity operates a "no blame" policy, as do ALL Safety conscious cruise lines ( and airlines).

 

The incident will be analysed, conclusions made, recomendations given and if necessary extra or new training given either fleetwide of to those involved on the incident. Lessons will be learned.

Only if there was a DELIBERATE disregard of Standard Operating Procedures and/or Limitations, Diciplinary action will be taken.

 

Best regards,

 

Despegue

Captain B747-400

Chairman of TCAS Maritime and Aviation Safety

 

 

I have been following this thread.

Very well said.

I wonder how the captain of the Zaandam, crew, staff and watching passengers felt when they saw the Infinity fighting the wind and coming close to their ship? Must have very scary.

[grandgeezer]

Canal transit are considerably different then a average harbor. While I can see and respect your point about the Captain knowing his vessel' date=' a canal pilot knows so much more about the canal, banks, turns, currents, water depths and the effect of bank/hull suctions and lastly the locks themselves in the Panama canal, I have to side with the local knowledge a pilot brings. Most ships react in similar manners.

 

Now having said all that, the large cruise ships may indeed be the exception. I have never sailed one of the new cruise ships and would expect the Pilot and Master would work very closely together. Thrusters and twin screws or pods make handling a large cruise vessels easier, but experience with the vessel counts as well.

 

AKK[/quote']

 

Well said. I can't argue with that.

[celebrity cruiser]

Guys,

 

So much blame from so many know all's here...

 

Unless you were on the bridge at the time of the incident

And have your STCW certificate, may I kindly suggest to refrain from blaming the Navigation crew, including Captain Berdos or the local Pilot? Thank you.

 

From what I can see, it IS possible that a collision with ms. Zaandam was averted, and it is obvious that the wind was not only very strong, but also gusty.

Berthing a large vessel requires considerable skill, even more so in challenging weather. Just like landing a widebody jet in gusty conditions.

One thing is certain. Celebrity operates a "no blame" policy, as do ALL Safety conscious cruise lines ( and airlines).

 

The incident will be analysed, conclusions made, recomendations given and if necessary extra or new training given either fleetwide of to those involved on the incident. Lessons will be learned.

Only if there was a DELIBERATE disregard of Standard Operating Procedures and/or Limitations, Diciplinary action will be taken.

 

Best regards,

 

Despegue

Captain B747-400

Chairman of TCAS Maritime and Aviation Safety

 

 

THANK YOU Captain for the insightful explanation from a Master!

[ynotcat]

http://www.americanpilots.org/pilotage_in_the_u_s/index.php

 

"Role of the Pilot: As reflected in an official statement adopted by the Trustees of the American Pilots' Association in 1997: Navigation of a ship in United States pilotage waters is a shared responsibility between the pilot and the master/bridge crew. The compulsory state pilot directs the navigation of the ship, subject to the master's overall command of the ship and the ultimate responsibility for its safety. The master has the right, and in fact the duty, to intervene or to displace the pilot in circumstances where the pilot is manifestly incompetent or incapacitated or the vessel is in immediate danger (in extremis) due to the pilot's actions. With that limited exception, international law requires the master and/or the officer in charge of the watch to "cooperate closely with the pilot and maintain an accurate check on the ship's position and movement."

[terrierjohn]

Well said Despegue, a very timely intervention to the far too many back seat Captains and Pilots on this thread.

[uktog]

Guys,

 

So much blame from so many know all's here...

 

Unless you were on the bridge at the time of the incident

And have your STCW certificate, may I kindly suggest to refrain from blaming the Navigation crew, including Captain Berdos or the local Pilot? Thank you.

 

From what I can see, it IS possible that a collision with ms. Zaandam was averted, and it is obvious that the wind was not only very strong, but also gusty.

Berthing a large vessel requires considerable skill, even more so in challenging weather. Just like landing a widebody jet in gusty conditions.

One thing is certain. Celebrity operates a "no blame" policy, as do ALL Safety conscious cruise lines ( and airlines).

 

The incident will be analysed, conclusions made, recomendations given and if necessary extra or new training given either fleetwide of to those involved on the incident. Lessons will be learned.

Only if there was a DELIBERATE disregard of Standard Operating Procedures and/or Limitations, Diciplinary action will be taken.

 

Best regards,

 

Despegue

Captain B747-400

Chairman of TCAS Maritime and Aviation Safety

 

Thank you, thank you Sir!

[JudithLynne]

There are two times when a captain is not in control of a ship:

 

1. Panama Canal

2. Dry dock

[ghstudio]

Does it really matter who was in charge or who presumably made a mistake or a mistake in judgement? It's an unforunate situation....I'm sure no one on the bridge wanted this to happen. We don't have to find who to "blame" and convict....this isn't a trial.

 

I think everyone tried to get the ship to the dock safely...and when things went wrong, they tried to make the right decisions. To me, avoiding hitting another ship is the right decision.

 

Things happen....those in charge, whoever they are, must make split second decisions based on the (often incomplete) information they have. It sounds like that's what happened here.

 

Time to move on to our normal rumor mongering, complaining, whining et al...and let this unfortunate accident just fade away.