HAL evolving to a better, more modern standard.

[OlsSalt]

Goodness, such gloom and doom thread.

 

The YumYum man is still there, though we noticed few passengers find the traditional sea going post-prandial offerings of figs, mints, ginger and dates to be of much interest any longer.

 

The dining room offerings have become much more varied and creative, as well as integrating the as-you-wish dining routines to replace much of the prior predictability of the two fixed dining times.

 

Don't forget HAL is now also asked to respond to multiple food allergies and individual dietary demands today, that obviously intrude on the formerly more limited one size fits all standard of service. Back when "vegetarian" was not much more than a plate of steamed vegetables. However we have found the main dining room experience even under these newer circumstances to be competent, friendly and professional.

 

There remain many quiet areas and the libraries on certainly most of the older HAL ships continue to be well-located places of quiet enjoyment.

Edited August 1, 2016 by OlsSalt

[ExpatBride]

 

The YumYum man is still there, though we noticed few passengers find the traditional sea going post-prandial offerings of figs, mints, ginger and dates to be of much interest any longer.

 

I hope he's on Zuiderdam next week... I'll gladly partake of his figs, mints, and ginger postprandially :p

[OlsSalt]

I hope he's on Zuiderdam next week... I'll gladly partake of his figs, mints, and ginger postprandially :p

 

He was there every night on the Zuiderdam on our May/June cruise. Upstairs - late dining post-prandially. He was out of mints. But my goodness, dried figs are actually very, very good.

Edited August 1, 2016 by OlsSalt

[ExpatBride]

He was there every night on the Zuiderdam on our May/June cruise. Upstairs - late dining post-prandially. He was out of mints. But my goodness, dried figs are actually very, very good.

 

This is great to know, I'll go looking for him.

[slidergirl]

Unfortunately, the changes I have experienced go far beyond the superficial. The changes go to the fundamental cruise experience that HAL has provided for decades, and that is fading fast. Sadly.

 

Ruth - to me, what you said is just why HAL must change. Those who have cruised HAL for decades for their experience are also fading fast, unfortunately. HAL cannot be expected to be financially feasible relying on the money of the Medicare set. They have to attract the next generations to the line. Changes will have to be made to cater to those tastes. HAL is not a non-profit that can maintain the cruising experience from the 60s that the older generation wants - it has to make money to keep in business.

As long as there is life, there will be oldsters who must be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the "new." It happens in so many aspects of culture, it must evolve and we must either evolve with change or go hide in a cave and imagine a world that never changes and keep eating those Swanson TV dinners and drinking Tang (hazy memories of the 60s)...

 

For what it is worth, I AM part of the Medicare set.

 

As for the posting about the Queen Mary Captain, that gave me a reason to think about cruising Cunard. It IS a British ship, after all... ;)

[kazu]

Things are changing because a cruise line will not survive much less be profitable if someone on a 24 day cruise has a $10 balance at disembarkation. Things are changing to attract profitable guests. Those who spend the money set the rules.

 

I would be delighted in we could walk off a cruise of that length with that kind of bill. In fact I would be delighted if it were even 200 x that ;) :D

 

Lots of cruise lines have people that aren't profitable (by your definition) and that are :)

 

I don't know if "the change" necessarily brings profitability other than the reduced space ratio and added cabins ;)

[SilvertoGold]

I'm not sure that veteran cruisers are the biggest source o profit to HAL and CCL Inc. There are only a handful of us on the Oosterdam. There are lots of younger folks who are probably more of a boost to the bottom line. My final statement, after OBC and so forth, should show a balance owed of about 10 dollars for 24 days.

 

Depends on the cruise as to how many "veteran cruisers" are on board.

 

As to 4 stars: we've been on cruises with as few as 4 to as many as 150. Even the 150 is not a huge number, but a lot more than most "groups" that HAL seems to love.

 

On some cruises we have been the only 5 stars, on one there were 35

5 stars (and hordes of 4 stars).

 

Lots of newbies and younger cruisers on some cruises undoubtedly and possibly they spend more, but do they cruise 40 - 80 days per year? Every year? Many "veteran cruisers do.

 

HAL needs a balance, not throwing either group overboard.

Edited August 1, 2016 by SilvertoGold

[OlsSalt]

.....

 

HAL needs a balance, not throwing either group overboard.

 

Young people get old. There will always be a steady supply of "old people" who find HAL ships a comfortable niche.

 

HAL needs to pay attention to the "new rich" in America - those with substantial guaranteed public pensions - white collar middle class with now a guaranteed and often generous retirement income stream.

 

I'll take a leap and assume they like more educational enrichment offerings and less superficial glitz. It is an emerging demographic for HAL to target. Road Scholars often have large groups on board. I'd like to see HAL offer more of what Road Scholars offers their customer base.

[kazu]

Young people get old. There will always be a steady supply of "old people" who find HAL ships a comfortable niche.

 

HAL needs to pay attention to the "new rich" in America - those with substantial guaranteed public pensions - white collar middle class with now a guaranteed and often generous retirement income stream.

 

I'll take a leap and assume they like more educational enrichment offerings and less superficial glitz. It is an emerging demographic for HAL to target. Road Scholars often have large groups on board. I'd like to see HAL offer more of what Road Scholars offers their customer base.

 

my bolding and a very general and dangerous statement.

 

I hope HAL doesn't put their money on this segment of the population. What about the physicians and millions of other self employed that have very nice IRA's (in the U.S.) that they have built for themselves?

 

What about the Canadians, the Europeans, Asians and the Australians, New Zealanders, etc..

 

It might surprise you to see the percentages of different populations on different cruises.

 

If HAL focuses strictly on America, and your segment of the population, it's chances are much more limited, like a financial portfolio than only invests in America and not globally.

 

I started sailing HAL when I was in my 30's so, yes they can attract those people, but what attracted me was some of the small things that are disappearing. To each their own :)

[Bostonjetset]

The YumYum man is still there, though we noticed few passengers find the traditional sea going post-prandial offerings of figs, mints, ginger and dates to be of much interest any longer.

 

Finally someone answered about the yumyum man! Thank you OlsSalt!! This made my day. I just loved seeing him in his red uniform standing watch in front of the dining room. :D:D

 

As for the posting about the Queen Mary Captain, that gave me a reason to think about cruising Cunard. It IS a British ship, after all... ;)

 

I both laughed and shook my head in agreement at this comment! Cunard is quite a wonderful experience by the way! Do give them a try.

[alwaysfrantic]

We were recently on the Queen

Mary, at the Captain cocktail party. The Captain, gets up and tells us

where we are going. He mentions a place in Norway, then says "of course

the Trump people cannot pronounce it, they also do not know where it

is", to much laughter from the crowd, so much for Cunard.

 

It must have been a kind word.

 

Sign me up for Cunard!

Edited August 1, 2016 by alwaysfrantic

[OlsSalt]

my bolding and a very general and dangerous statement.

 

I hope HAL doesn't put their money on this segment of the population. .......

 

Take a look at the public pensions we offer in California - not sure why this is a "dangerous" statement to make: http://transparentcalifornia.com/pensions/all/

 

This is a ripe demographic to target and explore.

[kazu]

Take a look at the public pensions we offer in California - not sure why this is a "dangerous" statement to make: http://transparentcalifornia.com/pensions/all/

 

This is a ripe demographic to target and explore.

 

and my point was that is only ONE of MANY demographics to target. And NOT necessarily the best (if you were foolish enough to choose just one).

 

I said it was "dangerous" because to target only one market that YOU think is the one is very dangerous for any company that is going to grow and expand. The smart companies and investors learned that a long, long time ago. The world does not revolve around any one segment especially that limited. sorry. They diversify.

 

It's a matter of diversification.

 

I suspect HAL knows who to target in any case. ;)

 

apologies to the OP, didn't mean to cause thread drift.

[SilvertoGold]

and my point was that is only ONE of MANY demographics to target. And NOT necessarily the best (if you were foolish enough to choose just one).

 

I said it was "dangerous" because to target only one market that YOU think is the one is very dangerous for any company that is going to grow and expand. The smart companies and investors learned that a long, long time ago. The world does not revolve around any one segment especially that limited. sorry. They diversify.

 

It's a matter of diversification.

 

I suspect HAL knows who to target in any case. ;)

 

apologies to the OP, didn't mean to cause thread drift.

 

Canadians tend to see this differently. It is of course not smart business to focus exclusively on one group. This is why I noted that HAL needs balance.

 

Two good posts, kazu.

Edited August 1, 2016 by SilvertoGold

[Tampa Girl]

Y. I'd like to see HAL offer more of what Road Scholars offers their customer base.

 

Which is???

[mancunian]

Thanks Ruth. I will let you know how we get on on Seabourn.

 

My comments on Saga which I said we did not like is based largely on the price of the cruises which are higher than HAL but nowhere near as good, and was not overly impressed with the crew.

 

However, something you need to watch for is the disabled question. Between operations I was in a wheelchair at that time and we went on a cruise round Britain with no stops. I persuaded DH into this as I thought under the circumstances it would be ideal for me just to look at scenery. I was not allowed to take my wheelchair as there were already six booked and they limit them, so I think it unlikely you would be able to take your motorised one. We decided to go anyway and I took my stick stool and decided I would manage. In the dining room the tables were close together and we were placed on a very nice table by the window. We shared this with a couple where the wife had MS and was confined to a wheelchair. Her husband had to get her there at the start of dinner to push her to the table, moving chairs and people on route. They felt they had to wait until the end to leave so as not to repeat the performance. On one night only, the night before the end of the cruise when traditionally everyone hands out gratuities did the waiter deign to help.

 

Breakfast was open sitting and we headed in one day and went towards some people already seated and sat down at a table. The waiter said not there, go to the other end of the dining room. I thanked him politely and said I did not want to walk that far. His reply was well you will have to eventually as you won't get food unless you go to the buffet table. I pointed out I did not intend to go and my husband would collect anything I needed. He glared at me for the rest of breakfast, and also another person who had dared to argue.

 

Disembarkation was a nightmare. Saga's guests are elderly and there were a lot of us booked for wheelchairs, problem was there was no wheelchairs. We were already nearly an hour late to booked time, and eventually DH went to point out that we had a train in half an hour. Confusion reigned and we were hugely embarrassed but they did give me the next wheelchair. The queue of others were waiting for cars or coaches and said they did not mind! This was on Saga Ruby which is no more, but the Sapphire and Pearl are even smaller.

 

The same summer we went to Norway on Ryndam with the wheelchair. The crew were amazing. We only had to appear at the lift and the DR Manager had someone lined up to take us to the table. Likewise at the end of the meal as soon as Peter stood up a waiter appeared with the wheelchair. On a couple of occasions I was waiting in the wheelchair to be collected by DH after computer class and again outside toilet at Crow's Nest and crew members offered to wheel me to where I was going.

 

What a difference in attitude.

Edited August 1, 2016 by mancunian

[RuthC]

Thank you, Mancunian, for relating your experiences on Saga. It certainly does add breadth to what I have heard, unfortunately not in a good way. I appreciate you filling in the gaps you know I would need filling.

I trust your assessment of how things play out.

[RuthC]

Ruth - to me, what you said is just why HAL must change. Those who have cruised HAL for decades for their experience are also fading fast, unfortunately. HAL cannot be expected to be financially feasible relying on the money of the Medicare set. They have to attract the next generations to the line. Changes will have to be made to cater to those tastes.

Apparently I give more weight to the idea that people's tastes change as they get older, than you do.

Folks who want more activity when younger tend to slow down as they age. Having quiet places to sit, read, relax, or talk with others becomes more important.

People don't stay out and party as late as they used to. That's just the way it is.

 

Good food, with impeccable service is welcomed at all ages, and more so as we go through our later years. Not to mention that those of us of the "Medicare set" have the time, money, and desire to cruise. We ain't dead yet, and HAL should not be writing us, or our funds, off so quickly.

[Stakeout]

They had to getr new china after they made the horrid choice to change the HAL Lfgo. Waste ofmoney fpr no reason. The pevfious Logo was perfectly fine and much liked by majority of crew and guests. What is the advantage to the new logo? I only see downside. Aded costs to replace all the logos on the ships funnels etc. :rolleyes: So many other places that money could have been better spent. IMO

 

agree with you 1000%.. cosmetic wasteful changes instead of getting the ships in top running order.. that's the mindset of the new HAL regime.. those who have not had many cruises on HAL will think this is for the better.. it is not.. look what they did.. or should I say didn't do to the Maasdam letting it get run down over the past couple of years.. major continuous AC problems thruout the cabins .. numerous plumbing problems continue.. our favorite ship has gone downhill fast most likely since HAL is not putting any more major money into it as its demise is getting near--probably mid 2018 as a guess-- bye bye Maasdam--it was a good run for us sailing her... 27x 532 actual cruise days.. sad :( :(

[Tennessee Titan]

agree with you 1000%.. cosmetic wasteful changes instead of getting the ships in top running order.. that's the mindset of the new HAL regime.. those who have not had many cruises on HAL will think this is for the better.. it is not.. look what they did.. or should I say didn't do to the Maasdam letting it get run down over the past couple of years.. major continuous AC problems thruout the cabins .. numerous plumbing problems continue.. our favorite ship has gone downhill fast most likely since HAL is not putting any more major money into it as its demise is getting near--probably mid 2018 as a guess-- bye bye Maasdam--it was a good run for us sailing her... 27x 532 actual cruise days.. sad :( :(

 

You choose an ancient ship, you expect problems...

10 TA on the Nieuw Amsterdam, can't even remember a maintenance issue serious enough to comment on .....

I can't even imagine tearing my clothes over a logo change or different china in the MDR!

Edited August 1, 2016 by Tennessee Titan

[Stakeout]

Young people get old. There will always be a steady supply of "old people" who find HAL ships a comfortable niche.

 

HAL needs to pay attention to the "new rich" in America - those with substantial guaranteed public pensions - white collar middle class with now a guaranteed and often generous retirement income stream.

 

I'll take a leap and assume they like more educational enrichment offerings and less superficial glitz. It is an emerging demographic for HAL to target. Road Scholars often have large groups on board. I'd like to see HAL offer more of what Road Scholars offers their customer base.

 

no matter how much they try to change the 'old peoples' demographics on HAL it will NEVER change..HAL has tried everything over the years to entice families and younger cruisers to sail with them.. it does not and has not worked... just tell anyone that you sail on a HAL ship and the first words they say is.. "that's for old people".. or "that's an old people's cruiseline".. short of HAL going out of bizness and recreating itself under a different name HAL will ALWAYS be known as an old peoples cruiseline...and that's just fine with me... I like OLD these days--nice and quiet.. :)

[3rdGenCunarder]

Apparently I give more weight to the idea that people's tastes change as they get older, than you do.

Folks who want more activity when younger tend to slow down as they age. Having quiet places to sit, read, relax, or talk with others becomes more important.

People don't stay out and party as late as they used to. That's just the way it is.

 

Good food, with impeccable service is welcomed at all ages, and more so as we go through our later years. Not to mention that those of us of the "Medicare set" have the time, money, and desire to cruise. We ain't dead yet, and HAL should not be writing us, or our funds, off so quickly.

 

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Our tastes in cruising have definitely changed over the years, as have the hours we keep. Can't remember the last time I was at a midnight buffet...

[kazu]

You choose an ancient ship, you expect problems...

10 TA on the Nieuw Amsterdam, can't even remember a maintenance issue serious enough to comment on .....

I can't even imagine tearing my clothes over a logo change or different china in the MDR!

 

 

 

Well I have chosen the most ancient in the fleet three times (the Prinsendam) and it has the Nieuw Amsterdam beat hands down IMO (and yes, I have sailed on the N. Amsterdam). Our next cruise will be on the Rotterdam. Yes, we're sailing the old ladies while they last. Issues? i don't expect issues and if there are I expect them dealt with quickly. these aren't cheap cruises by any means. In fact sailing Signature is cheaper :)

 

I had MAJOR maintenance issues in my N Amsterdam cabin and the ship wasn't even a year old. so each to their own. I'll sail the classics since their itineraries are far better :)

Edited August 1, 2016 by kazu

[Stakeout]

You choose an ancient ship, you expect problems...

10 TA on the Nieuw Amsterdam, can't even remember a maintenance issue serious enough to comment on .....

I can't even imagine tearing my clothes over a logo change or different china in the MDR!

 

early last year we did a 10 day on the Maasdam went across the street hopped on the Zuiderdam for another 10 for a back to back... the Maasdam was in better shape..

 

if you want to go big do so.. not for us.. no matter how much hype and marketing HAL does....if I want that many people on a vacation I just go visit my old home town-- NYC ...these days quiet is better.. and smaller is more personal..haven't been on any the bigger ships above the Vista class.. no plans on doing so.. to each his own..

Edited August 1, 2016 by Stakeout

[SilvertoGold]

no matter how much they try to change the 'old peoples' demographics on HAL it will NEVER change..HAL has tried everything over the years to entice families and younger cruisers to sail with them.. it does not and has not worked... just tell anyone that you sail on a HAL ship and the first words they say is.. "that's for old people".. or "that's an old people's cruiseline".. short of HAL going out of bizness and recreating itself under a different name HAL will ALWAYS be known as an old peoples cruiseline...and that's just fine with me... I like OLD these days--nice and quiet.. :)

 

The two thing people say about our HAL cruising are:

 

1. HAL is expensive

2. HAL is gracious and elegant, not like the other lines

 

This from people who love RCL, Celebrity and Princess