"This might be YOUR vacation, but it's MY life"

[bUU]

The portion of the crew's wages that are considered "base wage" (the small fixed wage of service staff, and the base 40 hour/week wage of non-service staff) is required to be sent home to the crewmembers' country, where the crewing agency that provided the employment for the crewmember takes a cut before distributing it to the crew's family. The DSC portion of the wage, for service staff, and the overtime wage for non-service crew, are paid to the crew onboard, and the crew use this for their onboard and in port expenses, and then cash it out when their contract is over. So, while there is a benefit to having the majority of the compensation be in the form of DSC, if the DSC did not exist, then the service staff would be paid wages and overtime like the remainder of the crew, and the overtime portion would be exempt from the crewing agency's garnishment.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm sure you can see how the base wage portion of compensation therefore cannot avoid taxation in the crew member's home nation, while the inability to effectively enforce tax laws beyond their own shores allows crew members of many nations to avoid paying taxes on the gratuities portion of their compensation.

Cruise line executives contend that in today's global economy, the industry offers greater opportunities for Third World workers than can be found in their homelands. Some crew members agree, saying they've parlayed their earnings into new homes and businesses. In a good month, a cruise ship waiter can pull down $2,000 to $3,000 in tips,

tax-free

.

https://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/219/46725.html

Even where there is strong enforcement, such as here in the United States, authorities estimate that between 40% and 50% of gratuities are unreported.

 

 

Interestingly, it isn't only lax enforcement that comes into play here. Many nations, such as Germany, differentiate between base wages and gratuities, with gratuities being tax-free.

Steuerfrei sind

#51

Trinkgelder, die anlässlich einer Arbeitsleistung dem Arbeitnehmer von Dritten freiwillig und ohne dass ein Rechtsanspruch auf sie besteht, zusätzlich zu dem Betrag gegeben werden, der für diese Arbeitsleistung zu zahlen ist;

http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/estg/__3.html

Note the very specific wording there. The money must be a discretionary amount given by a third party. That's why still calling it a gratuity but rolling it into the cruise fare, making it un-removable and un-changeable, is not going to work.

[grapau27]

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts, and the fact, objective and documented, is that the cruise fare that passengers pay does not fully cover the compensation for the service they receive from crew members. [Link] If those terms and conditions are not something that a passenger can accept and abide, then as a matter of integrity that passenger would have no other choice than not purchasing the cruise.

 

Beyond that, there are many - many - passengers who prefer a system within which the amount of compensation for service is at least partially within their control. In addition, as has been repeatedly explained here on CC, the current system's reliance on passenger-controlled compensation provides tax advantages. If the full cost of compensation was built into the cruise fare, the cruise fare would be substantially higher than just that additional amount, since it would be necessary to gross up the increment to account for the heavier tax burden that crew members would be saddled with, the way your comments imply you'd have it.

 

Of course, that is the direction things are going. The refusal of too many passengers to behave with integrity with regard to this matter has prompted some cruise lines to make it increasingly more and more difficult to avoid. Some cruise lines automatically add the gratuities to the bill and you have to wait on what is often a very long line to try to get the charge removed. There is talk of requiring specific details of the grievance to justify removal of the automatic gratuities... that'll surely be the next step. It apparently wouldn't violate the tax provisions to require a provable cause.

 

The only beneficiaries of the system as your comments imply you'd have it is higher fares to benefit tax authorities in crew member home countries. And perhaps that's fair, but do you realize that that is the only beneficiary of the end-game your approach to this matter benefits?

They should price their product accordingly.If i go into Walmart i don't expect them to say: Oh by the way we are not making enough profit on your shopping to pay our staff so we are going to stick a service charge onto your bill.

You sound like company yes people, basically if you are not making enough money to pay your staff just put your fares up like the government might put taxes up to pay for benefits etc.

For your information we have prepaid or autogratuity our tips every time in our 44 cruises.

Additionally i give a minimum of $200 on top for our regular 7 night cruises.

[Velvetwater]

They should price their product accordingly.If i go into Walmart i don't expect them to say: Oh by the way we are not making enough profit on your shopping to pay our staff so we are going to stick a service charge onto your bill.

You sound like company yes people, basically if you are not making enough money to pay your staff just put your fares up like the government might put taxes up to pay for benefits etc.

.

 

Completely agree. Corporate stretched truths can be swallowed by some.

 

We had a lovely Jamaican lady who served us on our Indy cruise and politely asked if we could fill in the survey when we got home as it would really help and she didn't mention it again. We filled it in.

 

If my waiter had been abrupt like the OPs (who was being perfectly reasonable as a passenger) I would have had words with the maitre de/food manager/Guest services about it. Whether that was to do with the survey system being flawed or the attitude of the staff would be a debate I think.

 

Staff shouldn't have to worry about surveys like that but then again they shouldn't make anyone feel bad because of it.

[ccotting]

If cruise lines want to operate a bonus scheme why don't they do what other employers do and use their own money.They tell us x amount is for cabin steward etc from our tips so why not just give them our money like what they tell us the split is ?

 

Remember, I'm only speculating... That said, the assumption would be that those who are high performing would get the most tips. So there is a performance incentive built into how they distribute the mandatory tips. Higher ratings mean higher tip amounts. Personally, I would rather they pay more base salary to staff and add the tip amount to the cruise fare since they have made it "mandatory" anyway. That's basically the premise behind Azamara saying no tip. The fare is more and part of the reason is they pay a higher staff base salary.

[chengkp75]

Some of your information is dated (2000), and some is somewhat slanted coming from the ITWF union, which is hoping to organize the industry further. With the implementation of the Maritime Labor Convention of 2006 (MLC 2006, entering into force in 2013), port states now have the right to inspect and enforce the wage, living, and benefit standards set forth in the Convention. One of the clauses of the MLC states that no member nation (either the flag state of the ship, or the home country of the seafarer) may allow a recruiting agency to charge a fee directly or indirectly to the seafarer, and to provide insurance against failure of the recruiting agency or the shipowner.

 

While the portion of wages paid to crew onboard the ship is paid outside the home country, each crewmember is covered by a collective bargaining agreement between the recruiting agency and the cruise line, which in most cases requires the declaration of the total compensation paid to the crewmember, and which is reported to the national tax authority. Just like US citizens who earn abroad, whether they actually comply with the law and pay the taxes required is different than whether the taxes are owed, and the governments are not complete neophytes in dealing with seafarer's wages, so they know how to find the hidden money.

 

I didn't know of many, if any, foreign crew who operated "tax free". Many on their first contract think they are getting the money tax free, only to return home after the contract to a large tax bill.

 

And, up until a few years ago, the wages paid to cruise ship crew was a good, solid, middle class or upper middle class income. In the last few years, with increasing prosperity in some of the traditional crewing nations, this wage has eroded somewhat. Even US mariner's wages have been essentially flat over the 42 years I've been sailing, and I'm not talking constant dollars, but the same numerical dollar amounts.

[legaljen1969]

Personally, if they are so concerned that there will not be a '5' in every category, then maybe they need to return to the days when a '5' in every category would not be a request but instead a pleasure to give.

 

Best comment ever on this issue!!

 

I do wish corporate would listen to the guests complaints on this issue. Having the various crew members constantly giving this spiel is very offputting for passengers. Why, after monitoring the boards does this practice continue? When you know it bothers the guests? When you know it is annoying and offensive? Come on Royal corporate, knock it off.

 

As the other poster wrote, fix the issues so that the 5 is a pleasure to give and not a coerced expectation.

 

 

None of you ascended to the top of the ladder without making some mistakes. Why do you expect perfection all the time from the crew?

Further, two people on the same cruise in the same cabin type (maybe even in the same cabin) could give markedly different reviews with markedly different experiences. One may say it's the best vacation ever. One may not have liked anything about it. Maybe, and most likely, it's not the fault of the crew if the complainer has nothing nice to say. Maybe said complainer is just a miserable person.

[bUU]

Some of your information is dated (2000), and some is somewhat slanted coming from the ITWF union, which is hoping to organize the industry further.

German law isn't any of that. :shrug: Some countries simply treat gratuities differently.

 

 

 

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[Cruise a holic]

The system isn't fair. We should each give the individual employee a gratuity based on the level of service received. Many of these people, leave their families for months in order to try to support them, work very hard and I am sure that based on our salaries, not paid well by the cruise companies. Fortunately, we are all able to take cruises and should remember to reward the staff for their hard work. Yes, sometimes the staff isn't performing well and those people should be tipped and reviewed based on their level of service.

 

The pooled tipping isn't fair to the passenger nor the staff member who has worked hard to please. Why should a lousy staff member get the same amount of money as an excellent staff member? I recall many days when the cabin stewards were working from the early morning though the late evening cleaning and re-cleaning staterooms for passengers-many with a smile on their faces.

[bUU]

The pooled tipping isn't fair to the passenger nor the staff member who has worked hard to please. Why should a lousy staff member get the same amount of money as an excellent staff member? I recall many days when the cabin stewards were working from the early morning though the late evening cleaning and re-cleaning staterooms for passengers-many with a smile on their faces.

How often do you recall seeing other cabin stewards lazing around and doing a very poor job?

 

My point is that the pooling of tips is not to ensure that poor workers get rewarded but rather to account for the fact that good workers are equally subject to getting passengers who are poor tippers.

 

 

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[Cruise a holic]

I have had a few lazy stewards. Sometimes they forget towels, don't clean the room properly and have attitudes. I have had to call housekeeping multiple times in those instances- having sailed on well over 40 cruises, I have had both positive and negative experiences. Mostly very positive. Those passengers who are poor tippers will always be poor tippers. I feel bad for the employees of the cheapskates, but I cannot be expected to pay for them.

 

Perhaps staff should be able to rate passengers and compile a list of the lousy demanding cheap passengers- sort of a cruise critic of the passengers and share with their colleagues from all cruise lines ! LOL

[grapau27]

How often do you recall seeing other cabin stewards lazing around and doing a very poor job?

 

My point is that the pooling of tips is not to ensure that poor workers get rewarded but rather to account for the fact that good workers are equally subject to getting passengers who are poor tippers.

 

 

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

We always put the card in key slot to say please make room up and this helps the cabin stewards to know when room is free and usually within 10 minutes they are cleaning our cabin.

We always leave a tidy cabin and use all of our own toiletries only so steward only has to change towels and make bed so usually it is impossible to go over and above for us but i always give an extra $30 to them as they seem to get the smallest portion of the prepaid gratuitys.

[bUU]

Perhaps staff should be able to rate passengers and compile a list of the lousy demanding cheap passengers- sort of a cruise critic of the passengers and share with their colleagues from all cruise lines ! LOL

That would make sense. Doesn't eBay work that way?

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

Edited May 7, 2017 by bUU

[Thorben-Hendrik]

If cruise lines want to operate a bonus scheme why don't they do what other employers do and use their own money.They tell us x amount is for cabin steward etc from our tips so why not just give them our money like what they tell us the split is ?

They do NOT tell you what the split is......now you know the reason.....

[grapau27]

I have had a few lazy stewards. Sometimes they forget towels, don't clean the room properly and have attitudes. I have had to call housekeeping multiple times in those instances- having sailed on well over 40 cruises, I have had both positive and negative experiences. Mostly very positive. Those passengers who are poor tippers will always be poor tippers. I feel bad for the employees of the cheapskates, but I cannot be expected to pay for them.

 

Perhaps staff should be able to rate passengers and compile a list of the lousy demanding cheap passengers- sort of a cruise critic of the passengers and share with their colleagues from all cruise lines ! LOL

That would make very interesting reading.

[grapau27]

They do NOT tell you what the split is......now you know the reason.....

They usually say what waiter,head waiter ass waiter and cabin steward amount is but in reality is that just a PR exercise for passengers benefit.

[Thorben-Hendrik]

They stopped telling that - years ago!

 

It is all removed from the RCI websites!

[Thorben-Hendrik]

 

Perhaps staff should be able to rate passengers and compile a list of the lousy demanding cheap passengers- sort of a cruise critic of the passengers and share with their colleagues from all cruise lines ! LOL

They do not even know who is tipping what!

 

What would be the benefit of such a list? :confused:

 

How to get in trouble fast?:rolleyes:

[grapau27]

They stopped telling that - years ago!

 

It is all removed from the RCI websites!

Just saw it recently and it also says what the higher amount is for the suite attendents and butler.

[bUU]

They stopped telling that - years ago!

 

It is all removed from the RCI websites!

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/customersupport/faq/details.do?pagename=frequently_asked_questions&faqId=5523&faqSubjectId=415

[Thorben-Hendrik]

Ohhh - OK so it is back...what a surprise!

[richstowe]

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/customersupport/faq/details.do?pagename=frequently_asked_questions&faqId=5523&faqSubjectId=415

Standard Staterooms:

• $6.35 - Dining Services
  
• $3.45 - Stateroom Attendant
  
• $3.70 - Other Hotel Services
  

Typical statement saying lots of nothing . The dirty secret is that more and more ship staff are now part of this tip pool . That's why the amounts keep going up . Certainly not to give the front line staff large increases .

Dining services certainly refers to more then just the direct waitstaff .

Obviously "Other hotel services" can refers to anything .

Finally the "$3.45 - Stateroom Attendant" seems clear but I'm betting they can and do roll in other housekeeping staff members into this category .

[bUU]

I don't see why front line staff should have it better than the people who support them and make it possible for them to do their job well. As a matter of fact, I think we as passengers are a little blind to how difficult are the jobs of those who we don't see as much aboard ship.

 

People like to say silly things like it's going to the ship engineer and stuff like that. But that's just nonsense. It's going to the people who are serving us. That's good enough for me.

 

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[Thorben-Hendrik]

I personally do not care what they do - the only decision I make is:

To pay or not to pay!

[ccotting]

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/customersupport/faq/details.do?pagename=frequently_asked_questions&faqId=5523&faqSubjectId=415

 

Thank you! That was interesting. However it is notable that staff are reporting they don't get the full amount pax contribute so there is clearly some process in place to address customer satisfaction from the survey with a concurrent compensation impact.

 

What I find most interesting in this thread is that there is no participant movement to have tips included in the base cruise cost. There should be no need to have mandatory tipping. Tipping is a discretionary payment in reward for fine service. RCI has gone to a European system with an included service charge much as you might experience in a European restaurant and which is not discretionary.

 

At the end of the day, we pay. I would rather have the payment clear and up front. Customer marketing benefits from an apparent lower base cost but it is only a mirage. How many threads do we have on this site with complaints about cost of cruise?

 

I want a nice cruise with staff motivated to help me because they receive an appropriate wage. Survey or no survey! And I will pay because I already am!!!!

[chengkp75]

German law isn't any of that. :shrug: Some countries simply treat gratuities differently.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

Not sure why you are fixed on German law, since very few cruise ship crew are German, and fewer still cruise ships are German flag. The other problem I see with your argument that this would be tax free in Germany, is that the money must be paid to the employee by the third party, which the DSC is not, it is paid to the cruise line, which then pays it to the employee.

 

Also, since Germany ratified the MLC 2006 in 2013, there are enabling laws there that include the terms of the MLC as they apply to merchant mariners.