Ethics vs Self-interest

[Jamericannn]

I just read a review where the cruiser say he/she had a wonderful cruise but will never cruise again. His/her reason was because after talking to many of the workers he/she was disappointed a the way carnival treated them. Many of these workers are from poor countries. The cruise line pays the workers according to what they would get paid in their country. For example, a worker from Philippines (as most cruise lines workers are) would get $2 - $4 per hour and would work long hours.

 

1. Do you guys think this is ethical? Should the cruise lines pay the workers American wages seeing the ships are operating from American ports?

 

2. Knowing that if the pay for the workers raise so will the prices to cruise or they will limit things that are "free", should we care that the workers are underpaid?

 

Thoughts....

[winddawn]

I just read a review where the cruiser say he/she had a wonderful cruise but will never cruise again. His/her reason was because after talking to many of the workers he/she was disappointed a the way carnival treated them. Many of these workers are from poor countries. The cruise line pays the workers according to what they would get paid in their country. For example, a worker from Philippines (as most cruise lines workers are) would get $2 - $4 per hour and would work long hours.

 

1. Do you guys think this is ethical? Should the cruise lines pay the workers American wages seeing the ships are operating from American ports?

 

2. Knowing that if the pay for the workers raise so will the prices to cruise or they will limit things that are "free", should we care that the workers are underpaid?

 

Thoughts....

We are all free to give higher tips if we think it is appropriate and ethical.

[d12j28]

I just read a review where the cruiser say he/she had a wonderful cruise but will never cruise again. His/her reason was because after talking to many of the workers he/she was disappointed a the way carnival treated them. Many of these workers are from poor countries. The cruise line pays the workers according to what they would get paid in their country. For example, a worker from Philippines (as most cruise lines workers are) would get $2 - $4 per hour and would work long hours.

 

1. Do you guys think this is ethical? Should the cruise lines pay the workers American wages seeing the ships are operating from American ports?

 

2. Knowing that if the pay for the workers raise so will the prices to cruise or they will limit things that are "free", should we care that the workers are underpaid?

 

Thoughts....

 

How do you know they are underpaid? If, for example, they are getting what they would make normally for an hourly wage (not even counting the tips) how is that underpaid? There's a lot more to it than just saying they are treated "poorly". What's the cost of living where they are from? How much do they actually make in a year? Is it over the average worker in their country? I'm not claiming to know the answer to any of those questions without doing research, just saying it's not that simple of a question. I can say that most of the workers I've met and have talked to are doing quite well.

[BoDidly]

I have never noticed an employee /staff with a chain and ball attached to their leg ;)

[StolidCruiser]

You are misinformed on how cruise employees are compensated. Believing anything and everything someone claims on the Internet without researching further is somewhat foolish (as is proliferating the information as valid). £

 

Anyone who believes employees are so underpaid should, in fact, never cruise again if that is something they believe.

[jimbo5544]

They are doing fine. If the reviewer traveled to 85% of the world they could draw the same conclusion. Sounds like more of a person with an agenda to me. Link to review ?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

[Wheatie59]

Is that reviewer going to stop buying goods made in China, India or other countries where prevailing wages are lower than the US? Good luck with that.

[coevan]

Jamericannn, where did you get this erroneous information, they are paid by position, not where they come from. No ships from CCL are registered in the U.S.

[Jamericannn]

How do you know they are underpaid? If, for example, they are getting what they would make normally for an hourly wage (not even counting the tips) how is that underpaid? There's a lot more to it than just saying they are treated "poorly". What's the cost of living where they are from? How much do they actually make in a year? Is it over the average worker in their country? I'm not claiming to know the answer to any of those questions without doing research, just saying it's not that simple of a question. I can say that most of the workers I've met and have talked to are doing quite well.

 

My questions were based on the reviews and also some youtube videos I've watched. Having said that, I do not agree with your analogy when you compare it to what they would have make in their country. They are not working in their country so that should not be basis.

If you own a business, would you pay people from poor areas different from you would pay people from the richer areas? would the state they come from determine how much they should get paid?

[Jamericannn]

I have never noticed an employee /staff with a chain and ball attached to their leg ;)

 

lol. Got you. I was going to include that point in the initial post but I totally forgot. No one is forced to work on the ship so they all have choices. I can argue both way of the discussion.

[Jamericannn]

They are doing fine. If the reviewer traveled to 85% of the world they could draw the same conclusion. Sounds like more of a person with an agenda to me. Link to review ?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

 

Here is the link to the review http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=553943

[Jamericannn]

Jamericannn, where did you get this erroneous information, they are paid by position, not where they come from. No ships from CCL are registered in the U.S.

 

It is not my information. Just a review I read and from a couple youtube videos I saw. I just posted the link to the review

[rjrpar]

This is a ridiculous thread. These workers choose to work where they do. Cruisers choose to vacation where they want. Let's get over this fascination with cruise ship wages and stop preaching about fairness.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Pyrate13]

For what it's worth, I had a conversation with our waiter on one cruise a while back. He stated he had been working on cruises for twenty years, mostly Carnival associated lines. He loved the job and very clearly explained that his wife and children in the Philippines lived in a beautiful home and were considered well off by their standards. So based on those statements, no, I have no concerns. I don't think anyone would stay on a job like theirs for 20 years if it was so bad.

 

The thing I find is even here at home you can find people working for the same company, doing exactly the same work that feel completely different about their job, their pay and their treatment. Some love it, some hate it. Some feel taken advantage of and others think they are treated well.

[Jamericannn]

For what it's worth, I had a conversation with our waiter on one cruise a while back. He stated he had been working on cruises for twenty years, mostly Carnival associated lines. He loved the job and very clearly explained that his wife and children in the Philippines lived in a beautiful home and were considered well off by their standards. So based on those statements, no, I have no concerns. I don't think anyone would stay on a job like theirs for 20 years if it was so bad.

 

The thing I find is even here at home you can find people working for the same company, doing exactly the same work that feel completely different about their job, their pay and their treatment. Some love it, some hate it. Some feel taken advantage of and others think they are treated well.

 

Good points. I want to reiterate that I am not taking any sides here. I just thought I should ask the other cruisers the question to get their views. I was surprised to read that someone will not go on a cruise again for those reasons mentioned above. As for me, the only things that will stop me from cruising is time and money.

[Jamericannn]

Is that reviewer going to stop buying goods made in China, India or other countries where prevailing wages are lower than the US? Good luck with that.

 

Maybe the reviewer is rich :D

[jimbo5544]

Here is the link to the review http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=553943

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

[sparks1093]

Our waiter on Fascination said this was his last trip with CCL because he is retiring. After 10 years. From my point of view the crew isn't paid well, from their point of view they are. Their point of view is the important one in that equation.

[Jamericannn]

Our waiter on Fascination said this was his last trip with CCL because he is retiring. After 10 years. From my point of view the crew isn't paid well, from their point of view they are. Their point of view is the important one in that equation.

 

agree 100% (You always have very good responses)

[cruizergal70]

Jamericannn, where did you get this erroneous information, they are paid by position, not where they come from. No ships from CCL are registered in the U.S.

 

I don't know about the OP, but I have seen videos by legitimate cruise ship recruiters who state that wages are based on the employee's country of origin. Workers have also confirmed this.