Legal Permanent Residents on Cruises (green card holders)

[mom says]

Really good comments! It seems that there are two things going on -- firstly an over reaction by many people in the U.S. Secondly, the "ban" does not seem to be working the way it was intended. I thought that only people from the list of countries will be denied entry - not Canadians, British, etc.

 

What is your basis for assuming that these are "over reactions"? Cite your sources.

 

Did you read the EO? This will also affect those who hold dual citizenship- if one of those is from a country on the banned list. As only one example, check out yesterday's story about the British Olympian who was born in Somalia. (I'm not going to hunt up the link- Google it)

 

Canada is apparently an exception. Canadian news sources ( again, feel free to Google it) carried an press release from the PM's office that they had been assured by Homeland Security and (I believe NSA) that Canadians holding dual citizenship would not be denied entry into the US. Why Canadian dual citizenship holders should be different than those from Britain, France or any other non listed country, I can't fathom.

 

The human rights infringements resulting from this EO are mind boggling. Kind of reminds me of 1930s Germany.

[slidergirl]

Really good comments! It seems that there are two things going on -- firstly an over reaction by many people in the U.S. Secondly, the "ban" does not seem to be working the way it was intended. I thought that only people from the list of countries will be denied entry - not Canadians, British, etc.

 

Philob: Liked your post as well - it seems that when someone does not agree with a view or opinion, they want to put that poster down rather than having a calm exchange of opinions. Are you really a 450 pound man living in your mothers basement:eek: (Just kidding :D )

 

Curious, honestly: does your belief that many people in the US are overreacting extend to your governor?

The ban isn't working the way it was intended because it was a knee-jerk, goose-stepping action taken by fiat by people who are used to being in charge of a private company where they did not have to answer to anyone and did not think this whole thing through first, but just did it. Now, he had to accede to the Canadians on this that they may cross the border without fear of detainment. I bet more backpedaling and acceding to some other countries will happen in short order.

 

At least this "executive order" has brought ecumenical condemnation from Christians, Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and Muslims around the world...

Edited January 29, 2017 by slidergirl

[Sea Hag]

But unlikely things have become commonplace in the US lately.

 

Very true. :mad::(

[Travelcat2]

Wow - strong reaction to the words over-reacting. The basis of my comment was simply what I heard on the news late last night........ that Canadian's were being denied entry into the U.S. as well as people from other U.S. friendly nations. It seems like the U.S. border patrol is over-reacting by stopping people from entering the country that should not be stopped.

 

I also feel that some U.S. citizens are over-reacting - especially since this type of ban was done before (without any protests). I don't want to get political on a cruise-related website so I won't share any political feelings that I have.

 

In terms of dual-citizenship (my DH is a dual citizen but not of any countries on the list). If you are a U.S. citizen, this ban should not apply to you and it probably will not be once this has all been sorted out. Apparently, if you have a green card, this also does not apply.

 

Comparisons to "N***" Germany is sickening (I apparently cannot use the word as it did not show up when I tried to). That was catastrophic! No one in the U.S. is killing, jailing without reason or condemning people from other countries (which is happening in some of the countries on the "ban" list). Could the current government (whether we like them or not) be trying to protect the U.S. from the same people that are killing women and children in Syria? Just a thought.

 

Also heard on the news (not sure whether it is true or not) that Canada is welcoming all refugees into their country. This is something they have done for some time. Canada may be the perfect alternative to the U.S. and the many European countries that can no longer accept these refugees. I really want them to be able to live somewhere where they can be safe and live a full life but in order to that, the country they immigrate to must be able to protect themselves as well.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Travelcat2

[mafig]

 

At least this "executive order" has brought ecumenical condemnation from Christians, Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and Muslims around the world...

 

Catholics are Christian. Israel has condemned this ban, too?

Edited January 29, 2017 by mafig

[mom says]

Catholics are Christian. Israel has condemned this ban, too?

 

I believe the PP may have been referencing the Pope's condemnation of this order. Many other Christian leaders have done the same thing. I don't know if Israel has voiced an official reaction. But Jews live all over the world, not just in Israel. There have been objections by many different Jewish organizations in the last few days, including some in the US. A quick Google search will answer your question.

[mafig]

I believe the PP may have been referencing the Pope's condemnation of this order. Many other Christian leaders have done the same thing.

 

Who? I know Billy Graham is a big Trump supporter.

 

Anyway, back to cruising topics for me.

Enough of politics for me.

As Barack Obama said "Elections have consequences."

[calliopecruiser]

Wow - strong reaction to the words over-reacting. The basis of my comment was simply what I heard on the news late last night........ that Canadian's were being denied entry into the U.S. as well as people from other U.S. friendly nations. It seems like the U.S. border patrol is over-reacting by stopping people from entering the country that should not be stopped.

No, but Canadians (or Brits, or French, or Venezuelans) who also hold passports from one of the named countries were legitimately being stopped. That's not an over-reaction, that's what the EO says.

 

I also feel that some U.S. citizens are over-reacting - especially since this type of ban was done before (without any protests). More's the shame.

 

I don't want to get political on a cruise-related website so I won't share any political feelings that I have.

 

In terms of dual-citizenship (my DH is a dual citizen but not of any countries on the list). If you are a U.S. citizen, this ban should not apply to you and it probably will not be once this has all been sorted out. Apparently, if you have a green card, this also does not apply.

 

Yes, it does apply. If you have a passport from one of the listed countries, it applies.....regardless of whether you have a Green Card or a US passport as well. Whether or not it "should" apply is a different issue, as is why anyone should need need to wait for it all to be sorted out (why wasn't it sorted out first?).

 

Comparisons to "N***" Germany is sickening (I apparently cannot use the word as it did not show up when I tried to). That was catastrophic! No one in the U.S. is killing, jailing without reason or condemning people from other countries (which is happening in some of the countries on the "ban" list). Could the current government (whether we like them or not) be trying to protect the U.S. from the same people that are killing women and children in Syria? Just a thought.

 

The comparison is apt, and there is a reason the EO was made on Holocaust Remembrance Day. Things started then just like they're starting now.

 

Also heard on the news (not sure whether it is true or not) that Canada is welcoming all refugees into their country. This is something they have done for some time. Canada may be the perfect alternative to the U.S. and the many European countries that can no longer accept these refugees. I really want them to be able to live somewhere where they can be safe and live a full life but in order to that, the country they immigrate to must be able to protect themselves as well.

That's great - you want them to be able to immigrate, as long as they're not immigrating to your country. The ultimate NIMBY. Do you honestly think this will help with US security? I think it's the worst thing the US could have done for it's own safety and security. As for the "US and European countries that can no longer accept...." idea - check your stats and learn your history. The US has taken in a very small number of the world's refugees in the last 5 years comparatively. Germany has accepted more than a million; Canada almost 40,000, and Sweden about 35,000. The US? About 10,000

 

See my answers in green, above

[rajju077]

See my answers in green, above

 

This ban is affecting more than just refugees.

 

Affecting tourist visa, student visa, h1b visas etc etc and green card holders.

I understand why refugees have been temp paused, but why the rest of the ones who have gone through process, gotten their visas or green cards.

[Travelcat2]

See my answers in green, above

 

Guess that it about time that I ask what the EO is?????

 

Some of my feelings about why Germany and other EU countries no longer want to accept refugees is due to increased terrorism in the past few months. Coincidentally, we were in Monte Carlo - 14 miles away from the tragedy in Nice (when people that were shopping were run down). Many people no longer want to cruise to that part of the world. Unfortunately (and I believe this 100%), a few terrorists managed to get into to some countries along with refugees. It is very sad.

 

As I've said, the U.S. Border Patrol has over-reacted by stopping people that should be able to come to the U.S. Yes - it should have been sorted out first but it wasn't.

 

Sorry but I cannot compare the Holocaust to what is going on now. My DH was alive during the Holocaust (lived in London and was evacuated 24 hours before London was bombed - he was away from his parents for 4 years - to keep him safe). He watches documentaries about this time in his life almost daily. This is an area that I am quite familiar with (via him as I was not born yet).

 

Had to laugh about your last comment (not at you - just about the situation). If no one in the world wants the immigrants except Canada, why not let them go there? Is it a cop out - absolutely! We live near Canada and I've been worried about them for some time. They have loads of open spaces - have been accepting immigrants for years and, IMO, are at risk of being taken over from one very strong country (do not want to go there lest it should happen and put the U.S. in real jeopardy).

 

In any case, I'm not trying to argue - just stating facts and opinions as I know them.

 

P.S. I did Google "EO" and what came up made absolutely no sense.

[calliopecruiser]

Guess that it about time that I ask what the EO is?????

 

Executive Order

[SuiteTraveler]

calliope cruiser, US immigration would not know if you are a dual passport holder. All a dual passport holder would have to do is present only their Canadian passport - most people with dual citizenship present that passport which is most expedient for entering the country in question.

 

In regards to refugees, since 2013, the US has taken in 70,000 per year. In 2015, Obama took in 12,000 Syrians and in 2016, he took in 13,000 - all included in that 70,000 figure. The US has been taking in refugees from many different countries, not just Syria.

 

BTW, Obama also suspended immigration from Iraq for 9 months - he just managed to keep it a secret and the press didn't publicize it until several years after it happened. In fact, if you look at the historical record, most of the recent US presidents over the past 30 years have issued a similar order at one time or another. So what is going on is not unusual at all. Also you might find this information interesting:

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/liberal-activist-soros-funding/2017/01/29/id/770919/

[rajju077]

calliope cruiser, US immigration would not know if you are a dual passport holder. All a dual passport holder would have to do is present only their Canadian passport - most people with dual citizenship present that passport which is most expedient for entering the country in question.

 

In regards to refugees, since 2013, the US has taken in 70,000 per year. In 2015, Obama took in 12,000 Syrians and in 2016, he took in 13,000 - all included in that 70,000 figure. The US has been taking in refugees from many different countries, not just Syria.

 

BTW, Obama also suspended immigration from Iraq for 9 months - he just managed to keep it a secret and the press didn't publicize it until several years after it happened. In fact, if you look at the historical record, most of the recent US presidents over the past 30 years have issued a similar order at one time or another. So what is going on is not unusual at all. Also you might find this information interesting:

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/liberal-activist-soros-funding/2017/01/29/id/770919/

 

Suspending the VWP and banning/blocking already issued visas and green cards are two VERY different things.

 

Stop blaming things on Obama, and stop subscribing to alternative facts. Only makes one dumber, not enlightened.

 

Pseudo President Bannon and his flunky Drumpf executed something so rash, there is no precedent. Read the complete EO and compare it to what you keep calling 'similar to Obama'.

 

And yes US immigration does know if you have dual citizenships. Do you think they hired idiots? There is a database at immigration processing that screens these very things! Especially people who have dual citizenships. You really ought to read up on DHS/Border security and how thorough they are.

Edited January 30, 2017 by rajju077

[rajju077]

Guess that it about time that I ask what the EO is?????

 

Some of my feelings about why Germany and other EU countries no longer want to accept refugees is due to increased terrorism in the past few months. Coincidentally, we were in Monte Carlo - 14 miles away from the tragedy in Nice (when people that were shopping were run down). Many people no longer want to cruise to that part of the world. Unfortunately (and I believe this 100%), a few terrorists managed to get into to some countries along with refugees. It is very sad.

 

As I've said, the U.S. Border Patrol has over-reacted by stopping people that should be able to come to the U.S. Yes - it should have been sorted out first but it wasn't.

 

Sorry but I cannot compare the Holocaust to what is going on now. My DH was alive during the Holocaust (lived in London and was evacuated 24 hours before London was bombed - he was away from his parents for 4 years - to keep him safe). He watches documentaries about this time in his life almost daily. This is an area that I am quite familiar with (via him as I was not born yet).

 

Had to laugh about your last comment (not at you - just about the situation). If no one in the world wants the immigrants except Canada, why not let them go there? Is it a cop out - absolutely! We live near Canada and I've been worried about them for some time. They have loads of open spaces - have been accepting immigrants for years and, IMO, are at risk of being taken over from one very strong country (do not want to go there lest it should happen and put the U.S. in real jeopardy).

 

In any case, I'm not trying to argue - just stating facts and opinions as I know them.

 

P.S. I did Google "EO" and what came up made absolutely no sense.

 

Yes because that is what immigrants have planned to do. Go through the systematic process of being immigrated that takes about 5-10 years per person, and in about 100 years they will take over your country. :rolleyes:

 

I see a lot of older people being paranoid about situations that may never happen. What is even more scary? Lack of health insurance.

Hate telling people they cannot be saved because they cannot afford treatment. And with the repealing of ACA, it is going to get worse.

 

 

Stay safe and healthy everyone.

Edited January 30, 2017 by rajju077

[calliopecruiser]

calliope cruiser, US immigration would not know if you are a dual passport holder. All a dual passport holder would have to do is present only their Canadian passport - most people with dual citizenship present that passport which is most expedient for entering the country in question.

 

Seriously? Do you think they don't have computers with information about that person? Or maybe you think that information from one location/department/organization isn't shared with others.

 

In regards to refugees, since 2013, the US has taken in 70,000 per year. In 2015, Obama took in 12,000 Syrians and in 2016, he took in 13,000 - all included in that 70,000 figure. The US has been taking in refugees from many different countries, not just Syria.

 

BTW, Obama also suspended immigration from Iraq for 9 months - he just managed to keep it a secret and the press didn't publicize it until several years after it happened. In fact, if you look at the historical record, most of the recent US presidents over the past 30 years have issued a similar order at one time or another. So what is going on is not unusual at all. Also you might find this information interesting:

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/liberal-activist-soros-funding/2017/01/29/id/770919/

 

Of course it's unusual......even when immigration from an individual country or few was suspended, it's never, ever kept people who have already immigrated and already been vetted (and already have lives and livelihoods) in the US from returning to their lives in the US after a vacation or business trip.

 

See my answers in green, above

[calliopecruiser]

We live near Canada and I've been worried about them for some time. They have loads of open spaces - have been accepting immigrants for years and, IMO, are at risk of being taken over from one very strong country (do not want to go there lest it should happen and put the U.S. in real jeopardy).

 

I've been thinking about this and it just isn't coming into focus for me......How is accepting thousands and thousands of immigrants - who become accountants, retail clerks, dentists, plumbers, and engineers - going to lead to "being taken over" by them?

 

Come to think of it, I'm not even sure what "being taken over" by them means......politically? religiously? militarily?

[BlueRiband]

They are airport officials and ACLU representative.

 

Green card has nothing to do with visa.

 

The EO says those 7 countries, but the situation is a little different over at the airports in New York.

 

Visas were mentioned in regard to the countries being visited on the cruise itinerary and not for re-entering the US. Somebody carrying a GC but has a Vietnamese passport for example, would need visas for some Caribbean countries.

 

US border agents can look at the circumstances that might suggest somebody has abandoned the US as their primary residence. On a cruise that starts and ends in the US it's probably not a problem. But if the person was originally a citizen of the country at the embarkation port then it might raise a red flag. Perhaps the poster who cancelled his cruise over the EO has some concerns that would single him out for scrutiny.

[rajju077]

Visas were mentioned in regard to the countries being visited on the cruise itinerary and not for re-entering the US. Somebody carrying a GC but has a Vietnamese passport for example, would need visas for some Caribbean countries.

 

US border agents can look at the circumstances that might suggest somebody has abandoned the US as their primary residence. On a cruise that starts and ends in the US it's probably not a problem. But if the person was originally a citizen of the country at the embarkation port then it might raise a red flag. Perhaps the poster who cancelled his cruise over the EO has some concerns that would single him out for scrutiny.

 

Not as per RCL recommedations. Not all ports outside of US require visa. I am a GC holder and I have to inquire about this everytime I book a cruise.

 

Abandoning of GC is only looked at if the person has not come back in 6 months or a 1 year. I know this because one of relatives abandoned a green card and came in after 2 years, they will still reluctant to take her green card back and kept asking her if she wanted to keep it.

 

I was the poster that cancelled the cruise. I am an Indian, not even muslim, not on the list of countries banned, and I have my GC and I have never been stopped for secondary processing since my H1B and GC days. BUT- since this craziness happened on Friday, I do not want to risk anything.

 

Besides that I had a case of food poisoning, no GC or no GC, i couldnt make the trip anyway. :rolleyes:

 

 

Forgot to add, since I am a brown petite female, I do get those fancy wipes and go through the body scan every single time.

Edited January 30, 2017 by rajju077

[slidergirl]

to the PP: I hope you do not have happen to you what happened to that poor woman in Baltimore - a US-born citizen of Indian parents, was stopped walking in her neighborhood by police and asked for ID and if she was illegal...

 

Two things Trump has done just reinforces that this is indeed a "Muslim" ban and not a ban on people from those countries and that he has listened to Steve Bannon too much on this topic: He announced the Executive Order on Holocaust Remembrance Day; in the official message for Holocaust Day, did not mention the Jews executed, but only "victims". This was chilling and a lack of common sense to announce restrictions on people of a certain religion on a day when people of a certain religion were executed merely for being a certain religion. THEN, he has publicly stated that "Christian Syrians" are welcome in the US, but the "Muslim Syrians" are the ones to be banned or subjected to "extreme vetting."

 

I, for one, will continue to travel where I want, when I want, until I personally feel it is not prudent to do so. I am getting a new passport, however, so that my visas and stamps from the places in the Middle East I have visited on this visa are not there. I look forward to visiting Europe again next year. I will accept any restrictions imposed on my by other countries in retaliation for what Trump has imposed on citizens from their countries.

[slidergirl]

I believe the PP may have been referencing the Pope's condemnation of this order. Many other Christian leaders have done the same thing. I don't know if Israel has voiced an official reaction. But Jews live all over the world, not just in Israel. There have been objections by many different Jewish organizations in the last few days, including some in the US. A quick Google search will answer your question.

 

Well, in the Jerusalem Post, there is an article that the Anti-Defamation League (a group long known for fighting Anti-Semitism and advocating for the Jewish population) has condemned the Executive Order. Netanyahu would never publicly condemn Trump or his ban because they are in bed together over Israel's right to invade the West Bank to make settlements on Palestinian land (another debate, another time).

 

Some "Christian" sects do not consider Catholics "Christian" because of various beliefs, including having the Pope as the Holy Father, just like some Christian sects do not consider members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, aka "Mormons" to be Christian because of various beliefs. By the way, the LDS Church did put out a rather milquetoast statement meekly saying they, as Mormons, must assist all refugees. But, since the Church is rabidly Republican, they would not come out and outright say the ban is wrong...

[Host Walt]

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