Divina Gratuity

[Beamafar]

I understand in Europe, passengers really frown on tipping extra to staff. Will probably tip for above and beyond service there if staff will allow me.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Europe is made up of a lot of different countries with different cultures! I, as a "European" do not "really frown on tipping extra to staff" - in fact I always tip extra. The point that a lot of people make here, though it seems to fall on deaf ears, is that there is already a daily hotel charge - ergo, we've paid our tips. In our country we pay people a minimum wage so they're not dependent on the generosity or otherwise of customers for their wages.

[graphicguy]

Europe is made up of a lot of different countries with different cultures! I, as a "European" do not "really frown on tipping extra to staff" - in fact I always tip extra. The point that a lot of people make here, though it seems to fall on deaf ears, is that there is already a daily hotel charge - ergo, we've paid our tips. In our country we pay people a minimum wage so they're not dependent on the generosity or otherwise of customers for their wages.

 

OK!

 

All I know is I've been chastised by Eurpoean based passengers who cruise on U.S. cruise lines for having to tip. On cruise lines, staff are not subject to any sort of "minimum wage". Matter of fact, most make far below any minimum wage established by any Western Country. So, they are indeed at the mercy of any gratuities passengers give.

 

I'll plead ignorance with European based cruise lines. They may indeed pay the "normal" minimum wage of their particular region.

[Beamafar]

OK!

 

All I know is I've been chastised by Eurpoean based passengers who cruise on U.S. cruise lines for having to tip. On cruise lines, staff are not subject to any sort of "minimum wage". Matter of fact, most make far below any minimum wage established by any Western Country. So, they are indeed at the mercy of any gratuities passengers give.

 

I'll plead ignorance with European based cruise lines. They may indeed pay the "normal" minimum wage of their particular region.

 

I was referring to how tipping is part of the American culture, whereas not so much in Europe - not what crew on ships are paid.

[nikkiw60]

Hi Nikki.....how are you? I also read the same thing that if seen accepting tips it could mean dismissal. Not sure where I read it....not sure if it was on their web site or CC.....however, like you we handed our steward, waiter in the DR and at specialty restaurants and bartenders extra $ discreetly and it was never refused. We did not order room service but we would have done the same tip wise. I do not think they expected tips at all on this cruise line. I hope you and Matt are feeling better. My cold lasted quite a while. Started feeling "normal" yesterday and feel great today......

 

 

Good you are feeling better! Looks like people last week also got the cold bug!

Very odd!

Things back to normal work etc. Got a weekend in London this weekend my niece is dancing at at Her Majesty's theatre with her dancing school. So that should be fun.

Keep in touch

Nikki

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[touristau21]

I was happy to pay the gratuity because the staff get such low wages.

 

However I question the morality of MSC cruises to pay such low wages that staff depend on the generosity of passengers for a fair wage. Why does MSC refuse to pay its hard working and dedicated staff a decent wage?

 

We are outraged when we see news articles about US / UK big brands ripping off foreign workers. How is the situation of the MSC staff any different?

[perakcruiser]

However I question the morality of MSC cruises to pay such low wages that staff depend on the generosity of passengers for a fair wage. Why does MSC refuse to pay its hard working and dedicated staff a decent wage?

 

They learnt this from the Americans ;)

 

The topic is much more difficult, MSC (and all other cruise companies) not hires the staff directly, there are always agents involved. And why not asking staff on board if they are happy with MSC or not? Many did other companies also, no matter if tips, service charges or nothing like this at the German cruise companies, nobody can pay much lower salaries than the others, otherwise the staff will leave.

 

Overall the wages are good and you will not find many people who complain. But there are other things than money, our waiter from Bali (I can speak (or at least try to) in his mother language to him so we talked alot) had a one year old daughter like us. But while I am enjoying a great time with the family he never saw his daughter and will not see before his next break mid 2018. Only whatsapp photos and skype. At the end of the cruise he tried to refuse to take the 10 € tip from me, only with persuading him to buy a gift for his daughter I managed to convince him.

[sfaaa]

I was happy to pay the gratuity because the staff get such low wages.

 

However I question the morality of MSC cruises to pay such low wages that staff depend on the generosity of passengers for a fair wage. Why does MSC refuse to pay its hard working and dedicated staff a decent wage?

 

We are outraged when we see news articles about US / UK big brands ripping off foreign workers. How is the situation of the MSC staff any different?

 

 

If this is how you feel, then you should be outraged with yourself for patronizing MSC for you are clearly a willing participant of the system you so despise.

[touristau21]

No sfaaa, I am most definitely NOT a willing participant in, as you say, "the system I so despise." These are your words, not mine. Perhaps you would benefit from reading my post again.

 

Personal attacks can never replace thoughtful dialogue.

 

I was not aware of how little staff were paid until I started researching the topic upon my return. I don't research the wages and conditions of the baker before I buy a loaf of bread. I first found out about cruising staff wages from the taxi driver who picked me up in Miami. Subsequent research on the topic seems to confirm what he told me.

 

sfaaa I urge you to address the main point in my post. I will spell it out for you: MSC trades in the West and makes some of its profit from residents of countries with strict labor laws. Its ships dock in ports where other workers benefit from laws which protect workers wages and conditions. Are MSC employees afforded the same protection?

 

If they are not, perhaps we need to ask our representatives if something can be done to address the issue. Some reports I have come across suggest cruise staff receive as little as half the minimum wage for countries their ships stop in.

 

I am far from being an expert on this topic. However, what I have read so far gives me some concern.

[kingfrog]

I was happy to pay the gratuity because the staff get such low wages.

 

However I question the morality of MSC cruises to pay such low wages that staff depend on the generosity of passengers for a fair wage. Why does MSC refuse to pay its hard working and dedicated staff a decent wage?

 

We are outraged when we see news articles about US / UK big brands ripping off foreign workers. How is the situation of the MSC staff any different?

 

 

I would assume that like in any job, in any part of the world, before applying for a job the staff know what their wages will be!

[nikkiw60]

I would assume that like in any job, in any part of the world, before applying for a job the staff know what their wages will be!

 

 

 

The crew we chatted to in the bars etc seemed very happy.

Slightly off topic but I wonder what someone like Jane MacDonald would comment.....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[perakcruiser]

 

Personal attacks can never replace thoughtful dialogue.

 

I was not aware of how little staff were paid until I started researching the topic upon my return. I don't research the wages and conditions of the baker before I buy a loaf of bread. I first found out about cruising staff wages from the taxi driver who picked me up in Miami. Subsequent research on the topic seems to confirm what he told me.

 

sfaaa I urge you to address the main point in my post. I will spell it out for you: MSC trades in the West and makes some of its profit from residents of countries with strict labor laws. Its ships dock in ports where other workers benefit from laws which protect workers wages and conditions. Are MSC employees afforded the same protection?

 

If they are not, perhaps we need to ask our representatives if something can be done to address the issue. Some reports I have come across suggest cruise staff receive as little as half the minimum wage for countries their ships stop in.

 

I am far from being an expert on this topic. However, what I have read so far gives me some concern.

 

To support a thoughtful dialogue I would like to ask you some questions.

 

1. Do you have any evidence, that the MSC salary is lower than those of RCCL, Celebrity, HAL, whatever?

 

2. Do you know the salary of a waiter in a restaurant, let´s say Pizza Hut or Domino´s, in Jakarta, Denpasar or Manila? This is what is relevant, not something in a country the person has nothing to do with. By the way, tipping is completely non existent in these countries.

 

3. Did any staff onboard MSC ever tell you that they are unhappy with their job and salary and would prefer to work at another cruise company?

 

Number 4 is not a question because you know that 99,9 percent of the users of this board could never afford only one cruise in their life if MSC would pay Italian or even Switzerland (where MSC is registered) wages.

 

In my opinion your "concern" are far away from reality.

[kingfrog]

To support a thoughtful dialogue I would like to ask you some questions.

 

1. Do you have any evidence, that the MSC salary is lower than those of RCCL, Celebrity, HAL, whatever?

 

2. Do you know the salary of a waiter in a restaurant, let´s say Pizza Hut or Domino´s, in Jakarta, Denpasar or Manila? This is what is relevant, not something in a country the person has nothing to do with. By the way, tipping is completely non existent in these countries.

 

3. Did any staff onboard MSC ever tell you that they are unhappy with their job and salary and would prefer to work at another cruise company?

 

Number 4 is not a question because you know that 99,9 percent of the users of this board could never afford only one cruise in their life if MSC would pay Italian or even Switzerland (where MSC is registered) wages.

 

In my opinion your "concern" are far away from reality.

 

 

From what I can see on the WWW. Waiter in hotel in Manilla approx 11000 php (approx $221) per month. Cruise ship crew $650 - $1150 per month (+ presume free meals/accom)

[perakcruiser]

From what I can see on the WWW. Waiter in hotel in Manilla approx 11000 php (approx $221) per month. Cruise ship crew $650 - $1150 per month (+ presume free meals/accom)

Yeah, 11000 pesos is quite correct, but only if you are not at the beginners level anymore. That is why these people love to work on cruise ships and not at the local Pizza Hut.

[kingfrog]

Yeah, 11000 pesos is quite correct, but only if you are not at the beginners level anymore. That is why these people love to work on cruise ships and not at the local Pizza Hut.

 

 

 

Far from convinced MSC passes this service charge to any of the crew (OK maybe the ship's officers bonus)

[TrinaLC]

What is your recommendation for tipping the butler? On NCL, we start at $10 per person per day for the butler and adjust up or down according to service.

 

I believe NCL butlers are NOT covered by the service charge; they work for tips.

 

MSC butlers are included in the service charge. Also, even though one butler is assigned to the cabin, you will have service from multiple different butlers, so the workload is shared.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

I always find this subject interesting. As an ocean liner historian, I find that most people do not know the history of sea travel and how it is that we have arrived at this point in time. The history of ships tells us a different story. Once you leave land you are in the other realm of maritime laws and traditions. It is interesting to point out that the current wage system was first instituted in the first steam ships of the great European shipping companies of the late 1800’s. All these companies were in lock step when dealing with wages and maritime unions...companies like Holland America, CGT The French Line, Cunard, White Star, etc etc. The real truth is and was...these industrial dinosaurs could not run without the current wage system. The bottom line is that the system works and I have known many stewards, butlers and barmen who have learned their trades onboard and then retired to successful businesses on land. The ocean liners have provided excellent apprentice training for millions of workers over the years. We need apprentice programs that provide the boot camp type training. Why do you think there is 20-30% unemployment among developed nations in Europe?? Companies cannot afford to pay entry level employees the standard wage...so they hire fewer people.

 

It is true that Americans tip and sometimes over tip. They have this annoying habit of rewarding excellence. It is important to remember that the Americans have been tipping onboard European ships since the 1800,s...long before Europeans started to cruise in large numbers. As much as some newcomers want to change the system to conform to their current standards I am inclined to stay with the current system and let it find its own way.

[asctony]

I totally agree with you. When you look at the people working on a ship, you find that they come from countries that are very poor and skills are very limited. Cruise pay for these people is low considering the amount of hours they put in a day. Some people think that these people are there to clean up after them. We have passed cabins that look like a total disaster.If they live like that at home, they are ........ Some cruise lines now instruct their personnel not to remove personal clothing/items from the floor. That is not their job. Totally agree. Pick up you own mess and clutter.

Cabin Stewards now have more cabins to clean than in the past. Assuming that they make $1,200 per month is not very much for the total hours they put in. A minimum of 10 hours a day and normally 7 days a week.10x30= 300 hours a month.

$1,200/300 = $4/hour. Would you work for $4 an hour?

Would you want to be a cook in the galley all day and sweat over a stove or oven? Consider the job. Do they get out of the Galley other than to go back to their cabin?

Yes, I know. They choose their profession. You did, too. Did you always have a choice with your daily tasks and did you ever want to change jobs, but couldn't?

Some passengers expect to be treated like Kings and Queens. If they encounter 1 problem they feel that tips should be removed. Shame on you!!!! If your cheap, admit it and move on. Don't try to justify it. JMHO!

[riclop]

I just booked the Divinia for May 13th, and is my first time on this line. I was reading that it discouraged from tipping the steward and waiters in the dining room? I have always done so on Carnival and Princess. Can someone shed some light on this?:confused::confused::confused:

You can do what you want.

[asctony]

Originally posted by Clar5 I just booked the Divinia for May 13th, and is my first time on this line. I was reading that it discouraged from tipping the steward and waiters in the dining room? I have always done so on Carnival and Princess. Can someone shed some light on this?'

 

 

Where did you read this? Would like to see it.

Thank you!

[perakcruiser]

Good points you mention, CGTNORMANDIE. Just maybe the world outside the US have a little bit different opinion about the motivations of the Americans for tipping and don´t believe this "habit of rewarding excellence" but that is a far too big topic for a cruise forum ;)

 

When you look at the people working on a ship, you find that they come from countries that are very poor and skills are very limited.

:o

The Philippines and Indonesia are definitely not very poor and very skill limited countries. And your salary comparing is completely missing the point. I am living in a country where you definitely have to have a university degree if you want to earn more than US$4 per hour. And this is reality for all coutries the cruise companies hire their non-nautical staff from. And of cause the limited number of Europeans and mainly Italians on board get a much higher salary that is better than in their home coutries also.

 

What you write about unaccetable behaviour of passengers I fully support. It´s a shame.

 

Far from convinced MSC passes this service charge to any of the crew (OK maybe the ship's officers bonus)

I did not say this and I don´t believe it also. The crew also does not know if they get anything of this service charge and they also don´t care. They care about the Pesos and Rupiahs at the end of the month.

[nikkiw60]

Originally posted by Clar5 [/url]I just booked the Divinia for May 13th, and is my first time on this line. I was reading that it discouraged from tipping the steward and waiters in the dining room? I have always done so on Carnival and Princess. Can someone shed some light on this?'

 

 

 

 

 

Where did you read this? Would like to see it.

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

Have a look at post 5 I have done a screen shot and the bottom line says that tipping is discouraged.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[mafig]

Have a look at post 5 I have done a screen shot and the bottom line says that tipping is discouraged.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

 

I had read this also.

We tipped extra when we were on Divina.

I have to say that none of the people we tipped acted in the least surprised.

[asctony]

In the Rankings by Country of Average Monthly Net Salary (After Taxes):

Indonesia Ranks 72 $371.99

Philippines Ranks 79 $309.35

When Ranking Asia Countries:

Indonesia Ranks 22

Philippines Ranks 25

 

So, I would consider these two countries Poor.

As for MSC policy of tipping the posted quote states: 'Tips: MSC Does not recommend tipping of individual members of staff.'

This is because of the Service Charge that includes the tipping of the staff.