Technical issues on Caribbean Princess

[puli]

We were in F305 on the last east bound TA and had the same creaking etc during some rough seas. It only lasted 1 or 2 nights but it was very apparent. I've been in these WS before so I kinda knew what to expect. It does keep you awake if you are a light sleeper.

i am so hoping you were on the C P. the noise was so loud for us that when the front desk first came to the room we had to step out into the hall so we could all hear what was being said.

[merrilldean]

Keep in mind that between now and some time after Sept 22 the Caribbean Princess will be operating at less than its proper speed. Our TA on the 22 has had major itinerary changes. They are keeping this a secret from any cruiser between now and then. Sorry for your change.

I have spent to much time trying to get Princess to give more than "i'm sorry" for this inconvenience on phone with reps and supervisors. Email was sent to customer relations, only to get auto response to call. I am done! Cancelling, there goes our 50th anniversary plan.

[Videopark]

Voyage B723 July 22 on CP

"Please be advised that the Killarney By Train (CB4-110) shore excursion in Cork has been cancelled due to operational considerations. " Rebooked as, "Killareney By Motorcoach (CB4-120)"

Don't know if the "operational considerations" is Princess or the train.

[Level six]

I hope all goes well. I was on the NCL star when the apizod went out in Singapore in December 2016. We limped to Hong Kong, but missed 3-4 ports. We got the cruise free and 50% off a future cruise. After we got off, the ship limped for a few weeks(supposedly one apizod was fixed, and then the other went out, and then both???, something like that) until it totally went dead 40 miles from Melbourne and then had to be tugged in from the Tasman sea. My point is, those that are worried have a very valid reason to worry, you are in open sea. I would look up those threads to see how everything went, it will take days to read. I was thinking of booking this cruise and came upon this thread, nope, not booking, been there, done that. Good luck all, happy sailing.

[Cruiser411]

We were in F305 on the last east bound TA and had the same creaking etc during some rough seas. It only lasted 1 or 2 nights but it was very apparent. I've been in these WS before so I kinda knew what to expect. It does keep you awake if you are a light sleeper.

 

That noise is stabilizers.

[jkrislc]

I hope all goes well. I was on the NCL star when the apizod went out in Singapore in December 2016. We limped to Hong Kong, but missed 3-4 ports. We got the cruise free and 50% off a future cruise. After we got off, the ship limped for a few weeks(supposedly one apizod was fixed, and then the other went out, and then both???, something like that) until it totally went dead 40 miles from Melbourne and then had to be tugged in from the Tasman sea. My point is, those that are worried have a very valid reason to worry, you are in open sea. I would look up those threads to see how everything went, it will take days to read. I was thinking of booking this cruise and came upon this thread, nope, not booking, been there, done that. Good luck all, happy sailing.

To add to this, the Norwegian Star is still having problems. I've had friends on two separate Star cruises this year whose cruises missed nearly all of the scheduled ports because of propulsion problems. Thus, they issues have returned much like some of those here fear with the Caribbean Princess.

 

I leave next week on the Caribbean Princess and will admit I'm somewhat concerned especially given what happened in past seasons and propulsion issues.

[chengkp75]

That noise is stabilizers.

 

That noise is not stabilizers, which produce virtually no noise whatsoever. That creaking is the fact that the cabins are not structural to the ship, and so the wall and ceiling panels will move separately to the movement of the ship's structure, and where they bind together you get creaking.

[chengkp75]

To add to this, the Norwegian Star is still having problems. I've had friends on two separate Star cruises this year whose cruises missed nearly all of the scheduled ports because of propulsion problems. Thus, they issues have returned much like some of those here fear with the Caribbean Princess.

 

I leave next week on the Caribbean Princess and will admit I'm somewhat concerned especially given what happened in past seasons and propulsion issues.

 

The Star is no longer having issues with propulsion, since the repairs made in Melbourne.

[jkrislc]

The Star is no longer having issues with propulsion, since the repairs made in Melbourne.

Yes, and that's great news. But if problem arise again, many are going to be concerned as some are here with the CAB thinking that the same issues have returned.

[puli]

That noise is not stabilizers, which produce virtually no noise whatsoever. That creaking is the fact that the cabins are not structural to the ship, and so the wall and ceiling panels will move separately to the movement of the ship's structure, and where they bind together you get creaking.

So would that mean that in rough seas the cabins directly over the stabilizers may or may not creak & scream depending upon how well the cabins have been installed in each ship? thus those window suites may react differently in each ship. We have been avoiding ever considering booking another one no matter which ship all based on our C P experience. Chengkp75...you have made my day!!!

[chengkp75]

So would that mean that in rough seas the cabins directly over the stabilizers may or may not creak & scream depending upon how well the cabins have been installed in each ship? thus those window suites may react differently in each ship. We have been avoiding ever considering booking another one no matter which ship all based on our C P experience. Chengkp75...you have made my day!!!

 

That's correct. Even ships of the same class will have slightly different characteristics of hull flexure, and different age of the fasteners used to install the cabins, so the noise and vibration characteristics of any cabin is fairly unique to that particular cabin on that particular ship. Not guaranteeing a noise free cabin, but you really can't condemn a whole area of all ships by just one experience. As I've said, a stabilizer is just like if you drag your hand in the water when canoeing, it really doesn't make any noise, and the size of the stabilizer compared to the size of the ship, means there is very little strain placed on the hull by the stabilizer to cause flexing and creaking. There are other things that might cause noise during rough weather, like storm valves clapping on deck drain lines, but these are spread along the ship, so if there is a problem, all areas of the ship will hear this.

[puli]

That's correct. Even ships of the same class will have slightly different characteristics of hull flexure, and different age of the fasteners used to install the cabins, so the noise and vibration characteristics of any cabin is fairly unique to that particular cabin on that particular ship. Not guaranteeing a noise free cabin, but you really can't condemn a whole area of all ships by just one experience. As I've said, a stabilizer is just like if you drag your hand in the water when canoeing, it really doesn't make any noise, and the size of the stabilizer compared to the size of the ship, means there is very little strain placed on the hull by the stabilizer to cause flexing and creaking. There are other things that might cause noise during rough weather, like storm valves clapping on deck drain lines, but these are spread along the ship, so if there is a problem, all areas of the ship will hear this.

Thanks, again....off to book a window suite!

[Bababooey Land]

We are on the cp now. No reports on engine problems but we did leave guernsey about 2 hours late and was unable to make up any time overnight. Typically ships are able to make up some time over night by sailing faster.

 

We are arriving into cobh 2 hours 15 mins delayed.

 

 

 

 

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[GonzoWCS]

We are on the cp now. No reports on engine problems but we did leave guernsey about 2 hours late and was unable to make up any time overnight. Typically ships are able to make up some time over night by sailing faster.

 

We are arriving into cobh 2 hours 15 mins delayed.

 

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Thanks for the Update!

[waiting2retire]

We are on the cp now. No reports on engine problems but we did leave guernsey about 2 hours late and was unable to make up any time overnight. Typically ships are able to make up some time over night by sailing faster.

 

We are arriving into cobh 2 hours 15 mins delayed.

 

 

 

 

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Thanks! Was there any reason given for the delay in leaving Guernsey?

[Bababooey Land]

Thanks! Was there any reason given for the delay in leaving Guernsey?

 

 

 

Yes. Due to rough waters in the afternoon. Tenders were unable to get back to ship. I am sure you will hear more about this as many people had to wait 3 hours in the tender line. I was a little over 2 hours.

 

 

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[nursejuls2002]

We're on the this cruise and the British Isles one prior to it, and we're very concerned since this is an issue that this ship had had for a while. How can they know there's an issue like this and not be able to fix it prior to the ta? Would they have the power to outrun a hurricane? Can/will this affect other cruises this summer? Our final payment is due next week, and we may be cancelling this cruise which is something we don't want to do.

 

Here's the memo we received--

 

<<ITINERARY CHANGE

 

 

 

Please be advised that Caribbean Princess has experienced technical difficulties which have resulted in our inability to operate at full speed. This in no way compromises the safety of our guests and crew which is our highest priority; however, our technical experts have determined that it is necessary to make the following changes to our itinerary. We will no longer call to Rotterdam, Vigo, or the Azores (Ponta Delgado). Instead, we will now call to Zeebrugge on Saturday, September 23, 2017, and to Bermuda (West End), on Wednesday, October 4. In addition, we will now call to Paris/Normandy (Le Havre) on Sunday, September 24 rather than on Monday, September 25, and to Lisbon on Wednesday, September 27 rather than on Thursday, September 28, and call times have been amended.

 

As a goodwill gesture, each guest will receive a refundable credit of $100 USD applied to their onboard folio. We regret any disappointment these changes may cause, and look forward to welcoming you aboard Caribbean Princess.>>

 

 

 

Apperently they lost an engine. Cannot be repaired till back in the Caribbean.

 

 

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[FritzG]

Apperently they lost an engine. Cannot be repaired till back in the Caribbean.

 

 

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NOT true! One engine can't go at top speed.

[Videopark]

Apperently they lost an engine. Cannot be repaired till back in the Caribbean.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

And what "engine was that? A diesel- electric for power or an electric motor used to turn the screws? Was it one of the standby generators for system power? Anyone know for sure?

 

Main engine

Diesel/electric:

4x Sulzer type 16ZAV40S - 4 stroke 16 cylinder diesel engines - each output 11.520 kW

 

2x Sulzer 12ZAV40S- 4 stroke 12 cylinder diesel engine - each 8.400 kW

Propulsion generators 2x Siemens electric motors with each a output of 19.000 kW

Propeller 2x fixed propellers

 

Bow thruster 3x 2.200 kW

http://www.scheepvaartwest.be/CMS/index.php/passengers-cruise/2661-caribbean-princess-imo-9215490

Edited July 10, 2017 by Videopark

[chengkp75]

And what "engine was that? A diesel- electric for power or an electric motor used to turn the screws? Was it one of the standby generators for system power? Anyone know for sure?

 

Main engine

Diesel/electric:

4x Sulzer type 16ZAV40S - 4 stroke 16 cylinder diesel engines - each output 11.520 kW

 

2x Sulzer 12ZAV40S- 4 stroke 12 cylinder diesel engine - each 8.400 kW

Propulsion generators 2x Siemens electric motors with each a output of 19.000 kW

Propeller 2x fixed propellers

 

Bow thruster 3x 2.200 kW

http://www.scheepvaartwest.be/CMS/index.php/passengers-cruise/2661-caribbean-princess-imo-9215490

 

As I've said previously, no one on these boards knows for sure. It could be one winding of one of the Siemens propulsion motors, or one of the 4 control systems for the two Siemens motors. It could be one of the 5 diesel generators. Not sure what you mean by "standby generator for system power"? All of the Sulzer diesels mentioned above provide power to both propulsion and hotel services. The only "standby" generator is the emergency generator which provides only sufficient power to evacuate the ship.

[Videopark]

Carnival Corp. and the rest of the cruise industry have promised to install additional emergency backup power aboard each ship, creating complex and expensive technical puzzles for marine engineers.

 

In the wake of the embarrassing Carnival Triumph blackout, Miami-based Carnival in April pledged to spend more than $300 million to upgrade power systems on all 24 of the company’s cruise ships. A month later, Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA) adopted a “Passenger Bill of Rights” that promises adequate emergency power in the event of a propulsion failure.

 

Marine engineers said it’s not just a matter of finding space to install additional generators on board. The trickier — and necessary — corresponding refit requires additional switchboard and wiring capacity. Sometimes more fuel piping is necessary.

 

“You can put different generators around the ship in different places ... but you have to duplicate the wiring of the ship,” said Hector Pazos, a Florida-based marine and mechanical engineer and maritime casualty analyst. “Technically and physically, it can be done. But it’s a lot of money.”

 

Cruise lines and regulators had presumed that the ships were already protected from total blackouts because the newest vessels have redundant, physically separated engine rooms that resist the ability of a fire to knock out all generators. A spate of total power failures in recent years has revealed that engine fires are penetrating switchboard and wiring systems with system-wide reach.

 

Associated Press/Gerald Herbert

Assessors on each ship are examining how to add backup generation in the event of major power loss. They are also trying to recognize ways to prevent blackouts in the first place, said Bud Darr, CLIA’s director of technical and regulatory affairs.

 

“The assessments are identifying where vulnerabilities exist on existing ships,” Darr said. “They are evaluating the risk in the reliability and redundancy of the main power and the reliability and redundancy of guest comfort systems.”

 

 

“The emergency diesel generator is going to lower the lifeboats or supply power to the fire pump or to the pumps to prevent flooding ... and the emergency lighting and the communication system on the ship to send an SOS,” Coggins said. “It’s not going to supply power to the galley, main lighting, air conditioning or ventilation.”

 

Modern-day consumers, however, are less tolerant of inconveniences than they used to be. “If there is a fire and you lose propulsion, the passengers still expect to have food and still expect the toilets to work,” Coggins said.

 

Carnival Triumph, which drifted or was under tow for three days after a fire in February, went back into service in June. While undergoing repairs at Mobile, Ala., it was among the first ships to receive a power-system upgrade. Carnival Chief Executive Gerry Cahill said the improvements would both help prevent power losses and allow hotel services to operate in the event of a main-propulsion loss.

 

“Carnival is increasing the load that the diesel generators can carry so they can provide power to lighting and power for ventilation,” Coggins said. “Carnival wants to avoid a repeat of the Triumph (blackout), so you can look at it as an investment in the future. There will be the redundancy on the ships; they would maintain the public’s confidence.”

 

When ships receive additional backup generators, often they are installed up high, away from the main engine compartments.

 

“You put them on the upper decks, and you separate them from the main engines, and if they are on the upper decks they are not subject to flooding as happened with the Costa Concordia,” Coggins said.

 

In addition to the challenge of finding the space and perhaps sacrificing guest amenities, engineers must consider location of bulkheads and new ducts and pipes that were not figured into the original design of the ship.

 

“In some cases, the emergency generation is on the upper decks of the ship rather than down in the engine room,” Pazos said. “Then, of course, there is the problem with noise and the fuel and other practical matters of not having the generators close to the tanks that carry the fuel. You will have a lot more wiring and piping for the fuel.”

 

The linchpin ensuring the effectiveness of the additional generation is the wiring and switchboard systems. “Just adding additional capacity is not a lot of use if you haven’t added the electrical infrastructure,” Darr said.

 

“If you lose that wiring, of course you lose propulsion. If you lose the switchboard, you lose propulsion,” Coggins said. “So it’s having alternative switchboards and alternative wiring to carry the power. It’s expensive, but it can be done.”

 

While Carnival has announced a specific program, Pazos doesn’t believe most of the industry will choose to spend the money for significant system upgrades. Blackouts will still occur, he said.

 

“They may make some improvements, but I don’t think they’re going to do something that’s going to make a major difference to avoid these types of mishaps,” he said.

 

Darr said more than 80 percent of the world’s cruise-ship capacity had undergone their propulsion assessments by June. CLIA’s “Cruise Industry Passenger Bill of Rights” also promises that ship crews are properly trained in emergency and evacuation procedures.

 

Last year, the association began requiring training with fully loaded lifeboats, and an International Maritime Organization panel voted to require passenger safety musters upon departure.

 

“We have to talk to the general public about safety,” Darr said. “We have to make sure the general public understands that this is a priority for us.”

 

 

[chengkp75]

Carnival Corp. and the rest of the cruise industry have promised to install additional emergency backup power aboard each ship, creating complex and expensive technical puzzles for marine engineers.

 

In the wake of the embarrassing Carnival Triumph blackout, Miami-based Carnival in April pledged to spend more than $300 million to upgrade power systems on all 24 of the company’s cruise ships. A month later, Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA) adopted a “Passenger Bill of Rights” that promises adequate emergency power in the event of a propulsion failure.

 

Marine engineers said it’s not just a matter of finding space to install additional generators on board. The trickier — and necessary — corresponding refit requires additional switchboard and wiring capacity. Sometimes more fuel piping is necessary.

 

“You can put different generators around the ship in different places ... but you have to duplicate the wiring of the ship,” said Hector Pazos, a Florida-based marine and mechanical engineer and maritime casualty analyst. “Technically and physically, it can be done. But it’s a lot of money.”

 

Cruise lines and regulators had presumed that the ships were already protected from total blackouts because the newest vessels have redundant, physically separated engine rooms that resist the ability of a fire to knock out all generators. A spate of total power failures in recent years has revealed that engine fires are penetrating switchboard and wiring systems with system-wide reach.

 

 

 

Associated Press/Gerald Herbert

 

Assessors on each ship are examining how to add backup generation in the event of major power loss. They are also trying to recognize ways to prevent blackouts in the first place, said Bud Darr, CLIA’s director of technical and regulatory affairs.

 

“The assessments are identifying where vulnerabilities exist on existing ships,” Darr said. “They are evaluating the risk in the reliability and redundancy of the main power and the reliability and redundancy of guest comfort systems.”

 

 

“The emergency diesel generator is going to lower the lifeboats or supply power to the fire pump or to the pumps to prevent flooding ... and the emergency lighting and the communication system on the ship to send an SOS,” Coggins said. “It’s not going to supply power to the galley, main lighting, air conditioning or ventilation.”

 

Modern-day consumers, however, are less tolerant of inconveniences than they used to be. “If there is a fire and you lose propulsion, the passengers still expect to have food and still expect the toilets to work,” Coggins said.

 

Carnival Triumph, which drifted or was under tow for three days after a fire in February, went back into service in June. While undergoing repairs at Mobile, Ala., it was among the first ships to receive a power-system upgrade. Carnival Chief Executive Gerry Cahill said the improvements would both help prevent power losses and allow hotel services to operate in the event of a main-propulsion loss.

 

“Carnival is increasing the load that the diesel generators can carry so they can provide power to lighting and power for ventilation,” Coggins said. “Carnival wants to avoid a repeat of the Triumph (blackout), so you can look at it as an investment in the future. There will be the redundancy on the ships; they would maintain the public’s confidence.”

 

When ships receive additional backup generators, often they are installed up high, away from the main engine compartments.

 

“You put them on the upper decks, and you separate them from the main engines, and if they are on the upper decks they are not subject to flooding as happened with the Costa Concordia,” Coggins said.

 

In addition to the challenge of finding the space and perhaps sacrificing guest amenities, engineers must consider location of bulkheads and new ducts and pipes that were not figured into the original design of the ship.

 

“In some cases, the emergency generation is on the upper decks of the ship rather than down in the engine room,” Pazos said. “Then, of course, there is the problem with noise and the fuel and other practical matters of not having the generators close to the tanks that carry the fuel. You will have a lot more wiring and piping for the fuel.”

 

The linchpin ensuring the effectiveness of the additional generation is the wiring and switchboard systems. “Just adding additional capacity is not a lot of use if you haven’t added the electrical infrastructure,” Darr said.

 

“If you lose that wiring, of course you lose propulsion. If you lose the switchboard, you lose propulsion,” Coggins said. “So it’s having alternative switchboards and alternative wiring to carry the power. It’s expensive, but it can be done.”

 

While Carnival has announced a specific program, Pazos doesn’t believe most of the industry will choose to spend the money for significant system upgrades. Blackouts will still occur, he said.

 

“They may make some improvements, but I don’t think they’re going to do something that’s going to make a major difference to avoid these types of mishaps,” he said.

 

Darr said more than 80 percent of the world’s cruise-ship capacity had undergone their propulsion assessments by June. CLIA’s “Cruise Industry Passenger Bill of Rights” also promises that ship crews are properly trained in emergency and evacuation procedures.

 

Last year, the association began requiring training with fully loaded lifeboats, and an International Maritime Organization panel voted to require passenger safety musters upon departure.

 

“We have to talk to the general public about safety,” Darr said. “We have to make sure the general public understands that this is a priority for us.”

 

 

 

Well aware of the promise for "backup" generators, and the temporary generator sets installed on Carnival ships (though no others in the Carnival group). However, loss of these generators would not affect ship's propulsion. These generators are 480v which is the voltage that powers nearly all of the hotel services and the engine room auxiliaries needed to keep the lights on. However, the main generators are 10,000 volt generators, as are the propulsion motors, so the "standby" generators do nothing for propulsion, or even A/C, since the large chiller compressors are 10k volts as well.

 

 

I'm a marine engineer for 42 years, so well aware of the problems associated with installing additional generators.

 

 

Many older ships are much better at segregating the two engine rooms, so that in the event of a failure there isn't a complete blackout. Even the Norwegian Sky, built in the 90's is better designed than the Carnival Triumph/Splendor class ships, and their derivatives. Most ships don't run the cabling from one engine room through the other engine room, which is what caused the problems on Triumph/Splendor.

 

 

And the IMO's "Safe Return to Port" requirements for newbuild cruise ships makes the two engine rooms, and the two propulsion spaces completely independent to prevent total loss of power.

 

And as far as I know, only Carnival has "promised" to add additional generators, and only the Carnival line have actually added temporary generators since the Triumph fire.

[joeyancho]

They should have let Honda build the ships. Those things never break down.

[Bonniesjourneys]

Wasn't there a post on past passengers.getting an email.that for a limited time.Balcony cabins were priced at $398 p.p..for T.A. was that Caribbean princess.so I think for inconvenient of not going ports.should be higher OBC.also what about port fees.do they refund back those.or just a credit.i am happy our next 2 cruises are on Regal.and the Ruby

I mean you go on cruise to relax and destress.princess better get problem fixed.

[Astro Flyer]

Wasn't there a post on past passengers.getting an email.that for a limited time.Balcony cabins were priced at $398 p.p..for T.A. was that Caribbean princess.so I think for inconvenient of not going ports.should be higher OBC.also what about port fees.do they refund back those.or just a credit.i am happy our next 2 cruises are on Regal.and the Ruby

 

I mean you go on cruise to relax and destress.princess better get problem fixed.

 

That was a special casino rate for gamblers.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2518466

 

Players Club promo rate .

You must add your member # which confirms that you received the actual email .

Great deal if you were entitled to receive the email.