Think you dont need trip insurance or Passports?..........

[TravelerThom]

It sounds like it would have cost them the same amount of money if they had had passports.

Actually renewing passports costs a couple $220, so not having passports would SAVE $220. NOTE: I use my passport often, and travel many places where it IS REQUIRED. BUT for those who aren't required to have a passport, and it would be only an occasional nice to have, it actually is a poor use of money. I did an analysis (somewhere here on CruiseCritic within the past year) that everyone who had to obtain an emergency passport would probably spend $1000 - $2000 dollars in expense (and the OP spent much less), but if ever first time traveler without a passport did get a passport for their cruise, the conglomerate total expenditure is in the millions of dollars for preparedness versus thousands of dollars in emergency expenses. It all depends on your comfort level.

[TravelerThom]

...Land travel in the Schengen area is 'free-er' movement part and much easier especially by train. As a Brit I have trained it through many of these areas without problem although there have been more spot checks due to security. In these situations the whole train pretty much had passport as you would expect in Europe as we know our other ID can and has been refused.

Because of these reasons, many Europeans get passports as children (not just us British and newer EU states).

Also, as a proud European I object to also these sweeping statements about the UK not wanting to be/didn't want to be a integeral part of Europe etc etc. Especially in these times in a very different story for half of us. But thats for another time.

There are many policies of the US that I, a citizen, dislike. Obviously there are UK policies that you dislike, but despite that they are still decisions made by the UK (in this context those policies would be opting out of Schengen, opting out of the Eurozone and on track to not being part of the EU. I stand by my statement that UK decisions have made the UK not fully integrated in Europe. You (and I’m sure lots of others) don’t like the decisions, but it is a fact that those decisions made by the UK government make the UK much less integrated into Europe than it might be.

 

I am well aware of the participants in Schengen: 22 of the current 28 members of the EU (less the UK and Ireland who opt-ed out from the being; and 4 newer EU members [Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania and Cyprus] who are obligated to join Schengen when their Border Controls are upgraded) plus 4 additional non-EU countries (Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein) plus 3 de-facto (non-signatory) members (Monaco, San Marino and Vatican City). Many Schengen members have National Identification Cards, and these National Identification Cards are fully recognized for travel within Schengen (and indeed to many areas outside Schengen as established by bi-lateral treaties). Austria does have a National Identity Card (Personalausweis), but it is not compulsory and only 10% of Austrians have them; in the absence of a Personalausweis a passport would be a required travel document within Schengen, although many authorities will let you slide by with a Driver’s License. I highly doubt that a German going to France by car, rail or air carries his passport (rather than just his compulsory Personalausweis), any more than I carry my passport (which I have had and regularly updated since 1968) to go from Maryland to Virginia. The UK started to issue National Identification Cards in 2009 (based on a 2006 law), but ceased in 2010, so the status of still existent UK National ID cards within Schengen is unclear (might be accepted, might not). For the record the US also does NOT have National ID Cards – rejected vehemently by the same people who also think everyone should have to regularly prove citizenship – go figure. We can get nationally issued passport booklets, passport cards (limited use) and driver’s licenses issued by individual states (depending on the state issued in one of three forms: WHTI compliant, Real ID, or basic [the later being phased out]).

 

The future will be interesting in the UK as I expect Scottish Independence to resurface. The last go round (I was in Scotland at the time) there were far too many unanswered questions on Defense, currency, oil value and ownership, EU membership, etc. If those questions were adequately addressed it would not surprise me to see Scotland vote for Independence, and then what happens to the rest of the UK? The Republic of Ireland would be happy to merge with N.I, and probably would offer a number of guarantees in an attempt to achieve that. If the Republic and N.I. merge, I then suspect that Ireland will join Schengen, further isolating England (and whoever is left, probably Wales). As I said, interesting times, but of course my families opted out of first hand interest in these matters in 1776. Good luck.

[SRF]

One of the big differences is that many Europeans can be in a different country by land travel in a very short time, which isn't the case for most Americans and the two countries that could reached by land up until a short time ago could be entered without a passport. It sounds like in Europe "recommendation" is used differently than here. In the US if a recommendation is made then the person to whom the recommendation is made actually has a choice to follow the recommendation or not. It doesn't sound like Europeans have a real choice so the correct word would be required (I guess it all comes down to what happens to the person that doesn't have a passport to present). In the US we have a choice (allowed by law) and some people will choose not to get the passport and as long as that's a choice that works for them whose to say different?

 

EU citizens can travel between EU member states without a passport. But they all also have a national ID card that they use for such travel. As even from EU to EU country, they may have to pass through immigration checks. Schengen to Schengen does not typically have immigration checks.

 

But to go to non-EU countries, passport is required. And for land travel, you can go from one EU country to another, but pass through a non-EU country, so need a passport.

 

Therefore, most Europeans have a passport. It is easier.

[Toofarfromthesea]

I think you missed my point. I was pointing out the the OP would have incurred the same costs (air fare and hotel) even if they had had passports. The post I was responding to seemed to imply that they incurred the costs because they didn't have passports.

 

No, they incurred those costs because they didn't have insurance.

 

This whole thread has taken a hilarious turn. A guy posts a cautionary tale about the hassles of not having insurance or passport, and describes the experience he had, which was about as good as it gets in dealing with the result, which still costs money and generates extra stress and uncertainty at a time when they are dealing with an injury. And the response is 'see, he didn't really need either.'. LOL

[time4u2go]

Actually renewing passports costs a couple $220, so not having passports would SAVE $220. NOTE: I use my passport often, and travel many places where it IS REQUIRED. BUT for those who aren't required to have a passport, and it would be only an occasional nice to have, it actually is a poor use of money. I did an analysis (somewhere here on CruiseCritic within the past year) that everyone who had to obtain an emergency passport would probably spend $1000 - $2000 dollars in expense (and the OP spent much less), but if ever first time traveler without a passport did get a passport for their cruise, the conglomerate total expenditure is in the millions of dollars for preparedness versus thousands of dollars in emergency expenses. It all depends on your comfort level.

They would not have saved any money if they had had passports. Having a passport does not get you a free airline ticket.

[Crusin6]

They would not have saved any money if they had had passports. Having a passport does not get you a free airline ticket.

 

 

No but it gets you the next available seat without having to wait for days in a hotel until you can secure travel documents

 

 

Personally with all the crazy natural disasters and brewing political issues these days the money spent on a pp is well spent as is the insurance premiums

 

And last but not least to all of you who proudly boast "I don't use credit cards".....you had better have lots and lots of cash on you should you have any issues while traveling...

 

Oh wait....having a good credit card with a healthy credit limit covers that

 

 

For those that will now say"glad you have a large credit line but I don't but I'm still entitled to travel"

 

Well you are correct....just bring lots of cash with you and be prepared as you really don't want to be stranded somewhere without a credit card or sufficient cash

 

 

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Edited September 26, 2017 by Crusin6

[Crusin6]

[

 

 

 

 

 

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[time4u2go]

No but it gets you the next available seat without having to wait for days in a hotel until you can secure travel documents

 

 

Personally with all the crazy natural disasters and brewing political issues these days the money spent on a pp is well spent as is the insurance premiums

 

And last but not least to all of you who proudly boast "I don't use credit cards".....you had better have lots and lots of cash on you should you have any issues while traveling...

 

Oh wait....having a good credit card with a healthy credit limit covers that

 

 

For those that will now say"glad you have a large credit line but I don't but I'm still entitled to travel"

 

Well you are correct....just bring lots of cash with you and be prepared as you really don't want to be stranded somewhere without a credit card or sufficient cash

 

 

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Their hotel stay was not because of a lack of any documents. Read the original post again.

[new_cruiser]

They did have passport cards, so while they had to go through some exception processing, it was perhaps easier than for someone without that. They didn't have to visit or even contact and embassy/consulate.

[MrsPete]

We had several thousand people leave Allure on our extended cruise in Jamaica, Puerto Maya and Cozumel rather than stay on for the full 10 days. Also had a bunch of people that had to stay on because they did not have a passport. Note that insurance may or may not cover leaving the ship early (some folks had damage to homes which might have qualified). But RCI did not pay for the airfare, transportation or hotels for people that chose to get off early unless they booked through ChoiceAir.

Do we know whether these people were Americans? Keep in mind that often we see something happen and assume that we know what's going on -- which may or may not be correct.

 

What you see is people telling other people that US citizens can legally cruise on a closed loop cruise and they should decide what documentation to use based on their risk factors, their tolerance for those risks, and their planned/foreseeable travel. You choose to read that as trying to convince others not to get passports.

Exactly. Telling people to consider their own circumstances, then buy passports /don't buy passports after considering the facts and risks is NOT the same thing as saying, "Never, ever buy a passport!"

 

For those who arrgue against getting a passport and say they don' want the cost, i wonder. Do they b uy a bakcpack to trave with? , a tote bvag? , a new duffle? Do they dine in one of gthe alternative resttaurants on a shIp? Do they have a cocktail o r glass of wine? Do THEY DO ANY EXCUDSIONS or taaxi to a beach? Pay to rent a lounger or have a burgger/ beer on he beach?

 

Think a bout it. If the answser is yes................ be aware the passport costs less. Which is more important and a better investtment?

False analogy.

 

A birth certificate /driver's license (free, probably already in your possession) is enough to cruise. The vast, vast, vast majority of cruisers will not experience an emergency ... so the money spent on a passport would've been a waste.

 

On the other hand, all the items you mention will definitely be used ... thus, not a waste.

 

The expenses are not similar at all.

 

The real question is, are you worried enough /do you have realistic concerns that mean you might find yourself in a situation where you'd need a passport to fly home ... that you'd pay hundreds of dollars for a document that would make the process easier?

To those trying to use the OP's experience as a justification and vindication of not having a passport or insurance, LOL. That is like saying that someone who survives a heart transplant shows that it is fine to ignore your personal health. Fortunately for them, OP's was about the best case scenario for having a problem, yet it still cost them money, not to mention the angst and stress they went through.

That's a better analogy than the above mentioned passport; however, it's not really fair to say "ignore your health". A cruiser who travels with a birth certificate /driver's license IS doing the right thing ... he's just not dong AS MUCH as a person who spends on the passport. A really good analogy: A person who travels with a birth certificate /driver's license is like a person who's taking care of his or her health by doing what's expected: Eating 5-7 servings of vegetables per day and exercising. The person who opts to spend on a passport (assuming it isn't needed for other travel) is like the person who goes above-and-beyond and spends on organic fruits and vegetables ... though there's really no evidence that they are superior to a good, solid diet with plenty of ordinary veggies.

 

It's also worthwhile to recognize that even with a passport, you're probably not going to be able to fly home. Why not? Because you're not going to be on an island for much of your cruise. Because it's quite possible that no last-minute flight will be available when you reach an island. Because you may be unwilling to pay the cost for your family to fly home unless it is a genuine emergency.

Edited September 29, 2017 by MrsPete

[Velvetwater]

There are many policies of the US that I, a citizen, dislike. Obviously there are UK policies that you dislike, but despite that they are still decisions made by the UK (in this context those policies would be opting out of Schengen, opting out of the Eurozone and on track to not being part of the EU. I stand by my statement that UK decisions have made the UK not fully integrated in Europe. You (and I’m sure lots of others) don’t like the decisions, but it is a fact that those decisions made by the UK government make the UK much less integrated into Europe than it might be.

 

I am well aware of the participants in Schengen: 22 of the current 28 members of the EU (less the UK and Ireland who opt-ed out from the being; and 4 newer EU members [Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania and Cyprus] who are obligated to join Schengen when their Border Controls are upgraded) plus 4 additional non-EU countries (Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein) plus 3 de-facto (non-signatory) members (Monaco, San Marino and Vatican City). Many Schengen members have National Identification Cards, and these National Identification Cards are fully recognized for travel within Schengen (and indeed to many areas outside Schengen as established by bi-lateral treaties). Austria does have a National Identity Card (Personalausweis), but it is not compulsory and only 10% of Austrians have them; in the absence of a Personalausweis a passport would be a required travel document within Schengen, although many authorities will let you slide by with a Driver’s License. I highly doubt that a German going to France by car, rail or air carries his passport (rather than just his compulsory Personalausweis), any more than I carry my passport (which I have had and regularly updated since 1968) to go from Maryland to Virginia. The UK started to issue National Identification Cards in 2009 (based on a 2006 law), but ceased in 2010, so the status of still existent UK National ID cards within Schengen is unclear (might be accepted, might not). For the record the US also does NOT have National ID Cards – rejected vehemently by the same people who also think everyone should have to regularly prove citizenship – go figure. We can get nationally issued passport booklets, passport cards (limited use) and driver’s licenses issued by individual states (depending on the state issued in one of three forms: WHTI compliant, Real ID, or basic [the later being phased out]).

 

The future will be interesting in the UK as I expect Scottish Independence to resurface. The last go round (I was in Scotland at the time) there were far too many unanswered questions on Defense, currency, oil value and ownership, EU membership, etc. If those questions were adequately addressed it would not surprise me to see Scotland vote for Independence, and then what happens to the rest of the UK? The Republic of Ireland would be happy to merge with N.I, and probably would offer a number of guarantees in an attempt to achieve that. If the Republic and N.I. merge, I then suspect that Ireland will join Schengen, further isolating England (and whoever is left, probably Wales). As I said, interesting times, but of course my families opted out of first hand interest in these matters in 1776. Good luck.

 

Im not sure you read my post right.

 

As an actual European with Dutch/German ancestry and family ties who travels in and around Europe for various parts of the year I can tell you that in these times most Europeans carry their passport because of spot checks. Despite what the web says or what someone experienced in 2010 many countries (including Austria) will ask for passports. Some say that this is due to indentity cards being easily faked in comparison to passports and some say this is inadequate training and updates for security staff in Europe..some just see as passport as supreme indentity for all scenarios. Either way...incosistencies and concerns force many of us (and visitors from further afield of course) to carry our passport in the Schengen zone just in case. Every single spot check I have been a part of on a train or elsewhere ( eg motorway check) almost 100% of the surrounding people have shown their passports. One of these routes was a train from Paris to Cologne.

 

On the 'integral part of Europe' debate. I will keep this short and sweet as I think you also misunderstood me in how many see Europe.

 

The UK and many of our European brothers and sisters have agreements,ideas,history and cultures that set us apart from our neighbours. This doesn't mean to say we are not a large part of Europe and that we are not integrated...our on the edge with a sea border sometimes feels apart but I digress. The UK has been a huge player for the EU and Europe after the obvious choices. It can look to someone who doesn't live in Europe as different because of our colonial past and this and that but the UK was and is an important part of Europe.

 

But anyway, back to the post. Get a passport so you can see the world.

[sparks1093]

Get a passport so you can see the world.

 

Many US citizens don't have the time or the money to do that, so it's no surprise that they don't want to get a passport for the occasional closed loop cruise.

[YoHoHo]

Many US citizens don't have the time or the money to do that, so it's no surprise that they don't want to get a passport for the occasional closed loop cruise.

Which in itself is sad

[sparks1093]

Which in itself is sad

 

There is no shame in not having the money or the time off to travel, flights are expensive as are accommodations and travel in and of itself falls into the luxury category. Frankly if we weren't staying with family when we traveled to Germany we probably couldn't afford to go yearly (well, and not cruise yearly, too).

[YoHoHo]

There is no shame in not having the money or the time off to travel, flights are expensive as are accommodations and travel in and of itself falls into the luxury category. Frankly if we weren't staying with family when we traveled to Germany we probably couldn't afford to go yearly (well, and not cruise yearly, too).

You are twisting. I said nothing to shame anyone. I think it is sad that "Many US citizens don't have the time or the money to do that".

[Cyber Kat]

You know, quite frankly I don’t understand why this is so frequently discussed to the point of arguing. I never travel anywhere without my passport, in fact making sure I have it is such a habit that I took it on a recent domestic flight.

 

But to quote Rhett Butler, frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn ... whether you have one or not. No skin off my nose.

 

When we were younger we didn’t bother with insurance, now that we’re older and taking more expensive trips we do get the kind that covers all the expensive occurrences. I must say that even when we were young, I never saw insurance for $59-69. I would have sprung for that!

 

So seriously people, don’t you have better things to worry about than whether someone you don’t even know travels with a passport or has insurance? ( and in case anyone wants to know why I bothered to read and answer, I have nothing better to do at the moment and I’m easily amused [emoji12])

 

 

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[sparks1093]

You are twisting. I said nothing to shame anyone. I think it is sad that "Many US citizens don't have the time or the money to do that".

 

Then it's not sad, it's life.

[sparks1093]

You know, quite frankly I don’t understand why this is so frequently discussed to the point of arguing. I never travel anywhere without my passport, in fact making sure I have it is such a habit that I took it on a recent domestic flight.

 

But to quote Rhett Butler, frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn ... whether you have one or not. No skin off my nose.

 

When we were younger we didn’t bother with insurance, now that we’re older and taking more expensive trips we do get the kind that covers all the expensive occurrences. I must say that even when we were young, I never saw insurance for $59-69. I would have sprung for that!

 

So seriously people, don’t you have better things to worry about than whether someone you don’t even know travels with a passport or has insurance? ( and in case anyone wants to know why I bothered to read and answer, I have nothing better to do at the moment and I’m easily amused [emoji12])

 

 

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Cruise critic is all about paying it forward and sharing our experience with those with less experience so they may make better decisions. It's not all about getting the best value out of a drink package, tips, or chair hogs.