12 cruise ship passengers dead after bus crashes in Mexico (Costa Maya)

[CalgaryMac]

This is indeed sad news. It prompts me to question the liability assumed by the cruise lines for such accidents. I am aware that if you make your own excursion arrangements then all risks are independent of the cruise line. However the news reporting on this accident suggests that there is only limited liability assumed by the cruise lines in the event of an accident. Also who regulates the excursion operators for safety or health issues. They might not be operating with the regulations that we are familiar with in Canada or the United States.

 

We are going on two cruises over the next 18 months. We have no concerns about excursions in Hawaii but do have concerns about excursions in Central and South America.

 

Regardless I am very sorry for the families impacted by the recent accident.

[nukesubsailor]

Something that strikes me as being contrary to what one would expect------12 people killed when a bus turns over but only 3 killed when a passenger train traveling at 80 miles per hour derails and crashes into a bridge and highway.

[satxdiver]

The excursion operators are checked out by Princess both from a safety and performance views. The operators are regulated by their government which is some cases may be minimal. Princess does have some liability since they sold the excursion but it is nice to also have insurance. If all else fails, an attorney in Miami specializes in ship accidents and is well known by the cruise companies. The excursion operators are very interested in your safety because this is their livelihood and any problems where a cruise line cuts them off will hit their bottom line hard. They have a monetary interest in keeping pax safe and cruise ships happy. Similarly the port is very interested in not having any problems again because of money they get from every ship that comes into the port where pax are spending money freely.

[Kingofcool1947]

I have seen folks taking tours, in the back of a pick truck, with kitchen type chairs.... no if this is not 3rd world I don't know what is.... travelers need to use some common sense...

 

And it was a ship sponsored shore excursion:o:o A result of cost cutting?

[indygirl99]

Something that strikes me as being contrary to what one would expect------12 people killed when a bus turns over but only 3 killed when a passenger train traveling at 80 miles per hour derails and crashes into a bridge and highway.

 

The train crashed off a bridge onto a major interstate highway in the US 3 miles from Joint Base Lewis McCord.

 

There was a planned disaster drill for that very day so there were many first responders already in the area. There was a Neuro Surgeon and his son passing by shortly after the crash who helped triage care. Not to mention the other people offering assistance because it was a major interstate and they were passing by.

 

Add the fact that there are 5 state of the art hospitals within 20 miles of the crash and the availability of Life Flight to aid in quicker transport/availability of high level care.

 

No comparison to a bus crash in a rural area in Mexico.

[USNUZULOOSE]

Perhaps the people on the ships who hire these guides should go on the excursions and see if anything is going on with them. Just because the ships want the money does not mean that they don't have an obligation to keep the people who do these excursions safe.

[Aus Traveller]

Perhaps the people on the ships who hire these guides should go on the excursions and see if anything is going on with them. Just because the ships want the money does not mean that they don't have an obligation to keep the people who do these excursions safe.

I know that Princess has staff go on shore excursions to access safety etc. The long checklist covers everything from the tread on the tyres to sighting the driver's licence. Obviously this is not done on every tour, but periodically.

[floridalover5623]

I know that Princess has staff go on shore excursions to access safety etc. The long checklist covers everything from the tread on the tyres to sighting the driver's licence. Obviously this is not done on every tour, but periodically.

They recently missed checking for life jackets (last month) on a dive boat taking passengers to a snorkel site after the small boat took on water from being improperly loaded & nearly sank.

Luckily they were just out of the harbor & there were other boats nearby. Many of the people didn't even know how to inflate their life jackets.

[PrincessLuver]

Third world country but not acceptable. :eek: Luckily all our bus drivers have been professional and good cautious drivers.

 

I guess the USA is third world country too then according to your logic.....:confused::o:rolleyes:

 

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/traffic/2017/10/19/manslaughter-charges-filed-driver-2016-tour-bus-crash-killed-13-people-palm-springs/775818001/

[PrincessLuver]

The train crashed off a bridge onto a major interstate highway in the US 3 miles from Joint Base Lewis McCord.

 

There was a planned disaster drill for that very day so there were many first responders already in the area. There was a Neuro Surgeon and his son passing by shortly after the crash who helped triage care. Not to mention the other people offering assistance because it was a major interstate and they were passing by.

 

Add the fact that there are 5 state of the art hospitals within 20 miles of the crash and the availability of Life Flight to aid in quicker transport/availability of high level care.

 

No comparison to a bus crash in a rural area in Mexico.

 

Really.....it was going too fast in the first place and your assumptions do not make it a great day for what little US train service there is compared to other countries....there is plenty of evidence to refute your ridiculous logic....

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/29/us/us-commuter-train-wreck-history-trnd/index.html

[Sacto Rick]

This is something that has worried me for a while now. If it's not crazy taxi drivers it's crazy and careless bus drivers.

 

On a stop in Costa Rica, we took a rafting excursion and had to be bused to the river. So we're going up a hill with no shoulder space and the driver is passing two other buses and we can't see what's coming over the hill yet! There have been big rigs coming the other way and this was insane!

 

Unbelievably, I think I was the only one concerned about it.. but to this day, I have an untrusting feeling when I get on a tour bus in third world countries. :(

 

My condolences to the families and friends of the ones on this tour.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

On a stop in Costa Rica, we took a rafting excursion and had to be bused to the river. So we're going up a hill with no shoulder space and the driver is passing two other buses and we can't see what's coming over the hill yet! There have been big rigs coming the other way and this was insane!

 

Unbelievably, I think I was the only one concerned about it.. but to this day, I have an untrusting feeling when I get on a tour bus in third world countries. :(

same here. We were in Jamaica, and the road didn't have a shoulder either. The bus was so close to the edge, both DH and I were scared for our lives. It's been a few years since, but my DH still feels quite uneasy about it.

[elliair]

This is something that has worried me for a while now. If it's not crazy taxi drivers it's crazy and careless bus drivers.

 

We took a taxi from SFO to Best Western El Rancho in November on a return flight from Miami. It was raining out and the taxi driver was crazy! Speeding on the slick road, my head was already spinning from the long rocky flight, circling the Bay Area for 45 minutes because we couldn't land due to an emergency. I really thought I was going to die that night - in a taxi! One more thing, I've never had a bad ride on Super Shuttle.

[1980dory]

I have seen folks taking tours, in the back of a pick truck, with kitchen type chairs.... no if this is not 3rd world I don't know what is.... travelers need to use some common sense...

 

Jed Clampett and his family rode out to Beverly Hills, Californy in an open pick truck and riding on kitchen chairs. Does that make Beverly Hills a third world country? ;)

I drove my Lexus Roadster to Tijuana Mexico. Did that make Tijuana, Mexico a first world country?

[indygirl99]

Really.....it was going too fast in the first place and your assumptions do not make it a great day for what little US train service there is compared to other countries....there is plenty of evidence to refute your ridiculous logic....

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/29/us/us-commuter-train-wreck-history-trnd/index.html

 

I'm not sure what you are calling ridiculous logic?

 

The post I replied to compared 12 dead in a bus crash in Mexico to 3 dead in a high speed train crash.

 

I responded with the reasons why more did not die.

[cherylandtk]

....It prompts me to question the liability assumed by the cruise lines for such accidents. I am aware that if you make your own excursion arrangements then all risks are independent of the cruise line. However the news reporting on this accident suggests that there is only limited liability assumed by the cruise lines in the event of an accident....

This is correct, the cruiseline accepts no liability beyond the cost of the excursion. Not to say that lawsuits cannot be filed, but the Passage contract is clear. The Princess verbiage (for most cruises) can be found in section 14 (G) on this page: https://www.princess.com/legal/passage_contract/pcl.html

[Pierlesscruisers]

The excursion operators are checked out by Princess both from a safety and performance views. The operators are regulated by their government which is some cases may be minimal. Princess does have some liability since they sold the excursion but it is nice to also have insurance. If all else fails, an attorney in Miami specializes in ship accidents and is well known by the cruise companies. The excursion operators are very interested in your safety because this is their livelihood and any problems where a cruise line cuts them off will hit their bottom line hard. They have a monetary interest in keeping pax safe and cruise ships happy. Similarly the port is very interested in not having any problems again because of money they get from every ship that comes into the port where pax are spending money freely.

 

How did this become a Princess situation? No Princess ship was involved in this.

 

Tom

[frugaltravel]

This is indeed sad news. It prompts me to question the liability assumed by the cruise lines for such accidents. I am aware that if you make your own excursion arrangements then all risks are independent of the cruise line. However the news reporting on this accident suggests that there is only limited liability assumed by the cruise lines in the event of an accident. Also who regulates the excursion operators for safety or health issues. They might not be operating with the regulations that we are familiar with in Canada or the United States.

 

The cruise lines require the operators to have a minimum amount of liability insurance and they also require the operators to list the cruise line on the insurance as well as themselves.

 

 

How did this become a Princess situation? No Princess ship was involved in this.

 

Tom

 

Princess is a cruise line. Things like this happen to cruiseline shore excursions. Princess cruisers are also very interested in the topic. Thus it is being discussed here. :D

[Pierlesscruisers]

Princess is a cruise line. Things like this happen to cruiseline shore excursions. Princess cruisers are also very interested in the topic. Thus it is being discussed here. :D

 

It aparedto me that the person who posted that message who said "The excursion operators are checked out by Princess both from a safety and performance views." was saying that Princess had checked out that cruise. Taken the say you're saying, I can see a different meaning. Thanks.

 

 

Tom

[satxdiver]

How did this become a Princess situation? No Princess ship was involved in this.

 

Tom

 

Quite true this particular accident is not a Princess problem but rather a Royal Caribbean issue since they own both cruise lines. However Princess has used this same operator in Costa Maya for the exact same trip. Furthermore this accident could have happened in many other ports that Princess visits. I will assure you Princess is paying attention to what happened and how they can prevent it from happening to them in the future.

 

Pax who are active on this board cruise not only on Princess but other cruise lines such as RCI. Therefore any excursion accidents whether they be a ship excursion or private excursion is of interest since we are all responsible in the end for our own safety. While this accident will not stop pax from taking a trip to the Mayan ruins or from any other tour, it does give them pause to question their safety. It is relevant on our thread.

[Clownfish Cruiser]

Such a sad situation. I briefly heard about it, but didn't realize it involved cruise ship passengers. The only time I remember being terrified on an excursion involved a taxi ride in St. Kitts. I was hanging on for dear life and there wasn't a seatbelt to be found! This was an official ship excursion on Princess. I never really thought to question the safety of a ship excursion...

[kitkat343]

This is correct, the cruiseline accepts no liability beyond the cost of the excursion. Not to say that lawsuits cannot be filed, but the Passage contract is clear. The Princess verbiage (for most cruises) can be found in section 14 (G) on this page: https://www.princess.com/legal/passa...tract/pcl.html

 

I was afraid at first to use private tours, but my second cruise included a stop in Belize where you can go cave tubing. Someone drowned on a cruise line tour, and there had been pressure from the independent operators prior to the drowning to get more government regulations for the cruise ship tours, because the independent operators stated that the cruise line tours were dangerous. The way cave tubing works is that you are linked to all the people on the tour in a human chain (your legs hold the person in front of you). The independent operators ran smaller tours, so they had smaller chains. They argued the cruise line tours were too long, and that if someone in the middle got in trouble, the guides at the front and back of the chain wouldn't be able to reach all the passengers quickly. A woman died on a Carnival ship excursion in 2008 when she and her husband were sucked underwater, and the guides were only able to rescue him. Some private excursions had cancelled that day due to higher water volume and dangerous conditions, but the subcontractor for the cruise line chose not to cancel the tour on that day. Princess may do a better job of vetting its subcontractors, but when we did the cave tubing with an independent tour it was clear the cruise lines still had much longer lines of passengers, and would therefore be more dangerous (the water conditions were extremely calm so no one was in any actual danger, but it did reinforce my belief that we cannot assume a cruise line excursion is necessarily safe).

[satxdiver]

I was afraid at first to use private tours, but my second cruise included a stop in Belize where you can go cave tubing. Someone drowned on a cruise line tour, and there had been pressure from the independent operators prior to the drowning to get more government regulations for the cruise ship tours, because the independent operators stated that the cruise line tours were dangerous. The way cave tubing works is that you are linked to all the people on the tour in a human chain (your legs hold the person in front of you). The independent operators ran smaller tours, so they had smaller chains. They argued the cruise line tours were too long, and that if someone in the middle got in trouble, the guides at the front and back of the chain wouldn't be able to reach all the passengers quickly. A woman died on a Carnival ship excursion in 2008 when she and her husband were sucked underwater, and the guides were only able to rescue him. Some private excursions had cancelled that day due to higher water volume and dangerous conditions, but the subcontractor for the cruise line chose not to cancel the tour on that day. Princess may do a better job of vetting its subcontractors, but when we did the cave tubing with an independent tour it was clear the cruise lines still had much longer lines of passengers, and would therefore be more dangerous (the water conditions were extremely calm so no one was in any actual danger, but it did reinforce my belief that we cannot assume a cruise line excursion is necessarily safe).

 

I have done the cave tubing tour quite a few times but with a private tour guide (cave-tubing.com) and have found them to be very reputable. Carnival has had problems with their tours before in several different ports which gives me pause. Luckily Princess has not had many problems that I am aware which makes me think Princess may do a better job of vetting their tour agencies. Carnival has had other problems like ships losing power out in the Gulf or off the west coast. I wonder if Carnival cuts it too close in an effort to offer a inexpensive cruise experience. I do know that Princess regularly sends ship excursion staff on their excursions. Last b2b cruise we had Princess representatives on two of our ship excursions out of four we booked through Princess. Princess is watching and checking.