Antarctica was great but HAL cruise was so-so

[OlsSalt]

Reading for both content and clarity: know the difference between bacteria and viruses and mechanical debridement, as well as duration of antiseptic (not sterilization) contact.

 

CDC: Alcohol-based hand antiseptics appear to have very good to excellent activity against many bacteria and some enveloped viruses.

Some scientific evidence suggest that ethanol-based hand antiseptics containing 60-90 percent alcohol, appear to be the most effective against common pathogens (including non-enveloped viruses) that cause acute gastroenteritis on cruise ships.

 

In general, ethanol-based hand antiseptics appear to have greater antimicrobial activity against viruses than isopropanol-based hand antiseptics, although both appear to offer some activity against these pathogens.

[KirkNC]

I hate to enter the fray here but my comments would be that HAL makes sanitizer available, it’s up to customers to use it, they have never made you use it, just offered it, the dispensers are usually well dispersed on the ship including the entrance to the theater, nothing beats hand washing, Hal’s entertainment has never been the reason to take a cruise, just something to do (or not) in the evening.

[Ken the cruiser]

Why do you keep ignoring the self-innoculation route. I don't ever remember seeing hand sanitizers at the entrance to the show rooms. Why would you be sticking your finger tips into your hands, mouth, nose or eyes in the showroom.

 

"Avoiding public restrooms" is sheer nonsense advice. They are both signed and designed for passengers to leave them as contamination free as possible - clean towels, sinks, soap and posted reminders to use a tissue when opening the exit door, plus a well-placed waste basket to deposit that potentially contaminated door handle tissue..

I don't. Actually I'm quite anal about washing my hands every chance I get. However, I will still use a hand sanitizer if at all possible when leaving any dining or public area, especially if my hands have touched any chairs, railings, tongs or any other device someone might have touched. My DW has been my mentor in this area for quite some time. And, yes, I do scratch my nose every once in awhile as those nose hairs can be quite ticklish at times when you least expect it.

 

However, when it comes to public bathrooms, you never know when someone has had the annoying symptoms of the norovirus and the first place they go in an emergency is to the nearest public bathroom to throw up if they are not near their cabin. And you probably know this, but how long do the norovirus spores remain alive on a surface if not cleaned properly? But, please, be my guest, enjoy your trips to the public restroom as I'm sure they are quite sanitary most of the time.

[Ken the cruiser]

I hate to enter the fray here but my comments would be that HAL makes sanitizer available, it’s up to customers to use it, they have never made you use it, just offered it, the dispensers are usually well dispersed on the ship including the entrance to the theater, nothing beats hand washing, Hal’s entertainment has never been the reason to take a cruise, just something to do (or not) in the evening.

I disagree with your statement that "they have never made you use it". Up until about 2 years ago on every HAL cruise we took, their would be a crew member at the gangway and at the dining area for the first 48 hours of the cruise making sure you sanitized your hands before entering. I remember this because that was one of the things that impressed us back then about HAL and were amazed when they stopped doing it starting with the Koningsdam cruise we took in July 2016. Maybe you didn't notice it, but my DW sure did and was quite impressed until they stopped doing it..

Edited February 8, 2018 by Ken the cruiser

[JRG]

Thanks for a well written post Ken!

[OlsSalt]

I disagree with your statement that "they have never made you use it". Up until about 2 years ago on every HAL cruise we took, their would be a crew member at the gangway and at the dining area for the first 48 hours of the cruise making sure you sanitized your hands before entering. I remember this because that was one of the things that impressed us back then about HAL and were amazed when they stopped doing it starting with the Koningsdam cruise we took in July 2016. Maybe you didn't notice it, but my DW sure did and was quite impressed.

 

I assumed HAL stopped doing this because it was becoming obvious this "hand sanitation" ritual was not living up to expectations due the accumulating studies. In fact use of some non-alcohol hand sanitation products was actually creating more resistant infections in other settings. (See CDC)

 

If one continues to insist on using alcohol in lieu of hand washing, bring along a bottle of 60-90% ethyl alcohol (aka vodka or similar product) and dip your hands in it for a full 30 seconds and make sure they have dried off before touching anything else, knowing this alcohol based hand sanitation ritual offers no prospective protections so one still has to be very aware about what they touch next. Understand this offers only sanitation; not sterlization. Plenty of other "bugs" remain.

 

False reassurances in the long run become more problematic than keeping the focus on what actually is most helpful. More of the hand-washing stations like are found on some of the HAL ships in the Lido - Rotterdam and Veendam come to mind - are my own favored route.

 

Also have to agree, not sure this dining room entrance hand sanitation was required, though strongly encouraged in the past. It showed HAL was trying to "do something" - more theater than actual effect. I personally never saw anyone turned away if they chose to not engage in this somewhat meaningless, but symbolic ritual. Maybe others have different reports.

[*Miss G*]

I disagree with your statement that "they have never made you use it". Up until about 2 years ago on every HAL cruise we took, their would be a crew member at the gangway and at the dining area for the first 48 hours of the cruise making sure you sanitized your hands before entering. ..

 

I was under the impression they only did that when they had an outbreak on the previous sailing and had just sanitized the ship.

[bennybear]

True Hank, I think we need to hear both pros and cons.

 

 

On the Royal Princess they had hand wash stations outside the buffet and a crew member directing you there. I do appreciate that the HAL lido is not self serve.

 

Unfortunately some passengers don’t stay in their rooms when ill and spread some nasty bugs. This year the flu has been rampant since May in Alaska. When it’s airborn it is tough to avoid. I became very ill on that cruise. It had only come over recently from Australia where they had a very bad year for flu. Yet I was fine on a November panama, but the ship had recently been in dry dock and passengers seemed mostly healthy.

[Iwant2BatC]

I don’t think people realize how dry it is in Antarctica. Nasal and throat passages become very dry on these cruises making one more susceptible to infection. We were actually putting wet towels in front of our registers and leaving water in the tub and in small dishes around the stateroom. Good old Vick’s and Vaseline can help a lot. When I fly or go anywhere where I know the air will be much drier than I am used to I use one or both.

 

 

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[rkacruiser]

I don't ever recall that a crew member, any where on the ship or at the entrance to the gangway, holding a bottle of hand sanitizer made me use the product. I was on the Zaandam, probably the cruise prior to the OP's, and there were hand sanitizer dispensers at the entrance to the MDR and to the Lido Restaurant as well as the Pinnacle Grill. I was pleased to see the number of guests using them! Including me.

[Ken the cruiser]

I was under the impression they only did that when they had an outbreak on the previous sailing and had just sanitized the ship.

It was in effect on each of the 5 cruise ships, the Ryndam, Maasdam, Zuiderdam, Veendam and Amsterdam, we sailed on between 2012 and early 2016. I guess we gave HAL the benefit of the doubt by assuming it was policy. But, hey, it just might have been coincidence there was an outbreak on each of the previous cruises. Wow, that doesn't sound good.

[Ken the cruiser]

I don't ever recall that a crew member, any where on the ship or at the entrance to the gangway, holding a bottle of hand sanitizer made me use the product.

Me neither. Nope. Not once do I ever ever remember a crew member holding a bottle of hand sanitizer and make me sanitize my hands. However, I do remember on those previous HAL cruises I mentioned above where a crew member was standing by the hand sanitizer dispensers asking folks the first 48 hours of the cruise to please sanitize their hands. But I'm sure they had some folks with an attitude give them all kinds of excuses as to why they didn't want to, and they probably let those folks by.

[ellieanne]

I disagree with your statement that "they have never made you use it". Up until about 2 years ago on every HAL cruise we took, their would be a crew member at the gangway and at the dining area for the first 48 hours of the cruise making sure you sanitized your hands before entering. I remember this because that was one of the things that impressed us back then about HAL and were amazed when they stopped doing it starting with the Koningsdam cruise we took in July 2016. Maybe you didn't notice it, but my DW sure did and was quite impressed until they stopped doing it..

 

Maybe they discontinued the practice when too many passengers complained about it for whatever reason. Maybe they stopped it because it was taking too much manpower to implement or police. Maybe they stopped it because there were too many passengers who could not mind their own business and spent too much time complaining about others who didn't use the gel.

[Sea42]

I don't ever recall that a crew member, any where on the ship or at the entrance to the gangway, holding a bottle of hand sanitizer made me use the product. I was on the Zaandam, probably the cruise prior to the OP's, and there were hand sanitizer dispensers at the entrance to the MDR and to the Lido Restaurant as well as the Pinnacle Grill. I was pleased to see the number of guests using them! Including me.

On our last cruise (HAL 5 years ago) we were under code red most of our 20 days and we were required to use the hand sanitizers before entering the dining room, shops and before reboarding the ship after being ashore. I much prefer soap and water but I'm certainly not going to argue with them about it. Their ship, their rules.

[Sea42]

HAL is for travelers who appreciate the destinations offered. You made a poor choice of cruise lines. Sorry.

Did you miss the part of their post where they said that the itinerary and the lectures were great?:confused:

[Stratheden]

Flu is mostly spread by airborne droplets from sneezing or coughing. Hand sanitizers won't do much to stop the spread.

[sail7seas]

Thank you so much OlsSalt and Sail7Seas for your visionary thoughts. It's people like you that make HAL what it is today.

 

 

Explain, please

I would feel badly to 'think I kinow what you are getting at' and miss the point enttirely.'

 

 

I am not sure I know what you mean by "people like you".

[Sea42]

Flu is mostly spread by airborne droplets from sneezing or coughing. Hand sanitizers won't do much to stop the spread.

Agreed. But as evidenced by the OP and others it makes it appear that the ship personnel are taking the situation seriously. Appearances can be important.

[OlsSalt]

Maybe they discontinued the practice when too many passengers complained about it for whatever reason. Maybe they stopped it because it was taking too much manpower to implement or police. Maybe they stopped it because there were too many passengers who could not mind their own business and spent too much time complaining about others who didn't use the gel.

 

Maybe they stopped because it was an ineffectual ritual and a waste of resources.

[OlsSalt]

Explain, please

I would feel badly to 'think I kinow what you are getting at' and miss the point enttirely.'

 

 

I am not sure I know what you mean by "people like you".

 

Me thinks he was being sarcastic. You know, "people like us" - old fogies like me, who like things quiet and simple on our cruise ships. But I speak only for myself.

[OlsSalt]

Agreed. But as evidenced by the OP and others it makes it appear that the ship personnel are taking the situation seriously. Appearances can be important.

 

When "appearances" support myth and superstition they often become counter-productive. When not following myth and superstition driven procedures are then used as grounds to attack a cruise line's attention to passenger health and safety, they do need to be rebutted with facts and data.

[Ken the cruiser]

Maybe they discontinued the practice when too many passengers complained about it for whatever reason. Maybe they stopped it because it was taking too much manpower to implement or police. Maybe they stopped it because there were too many passengers who could not mind their own business and spent too much time complaining about others who didn't use the gel.

Or maybe they stopped it to increase revenue in the ship's medical center. Who knows. Personally, I could care less if you sanitize your hands or not. I know I will continue to do so as I've seen the positive results of my health because of it, on and off ship. We're just upset as to the laissez faire direction HAL's management has been moving in these past few years.

[ChinaShrek]

When "appearances" support myth and superstition they often become counter-productive. When not following myth and superstition driven procedures are then used as grounds to attack a cruise line's attention to passenger health and safety, they do need to be rebutted with facts and data.

 

Facts are irrelevant so long as people are happy.

[Ken the cruiser]

Flu is mostly spread by airborne droplets from sneezing or coughing. Hand sanitizers won't do much to stop the spread.

So if you sneeze or cough in your hand, then touch an elevator button, hand rail or back of a chair, those germs transferred to your hands won't then transfer to the items you touch?

[Ken the cruiser]

Explain, please

I would feel badly to 'think I kinow what you are getting at' and miss the point enttirely.'

 

 

I am not sure I know what you mean by "people like you".

You jumped into the thread agreeing with some other folks that the hand sanitizers were useless and HAL shouldn't be brought to task because of their lax approach to minimize the spread of the flu and cold by getting folks to sanitize their hands on the recent Zaandam cruise we were on. That put you in my category of people who think HAL can do no wrong and anyone that challenges that is simply wrong. If I misunderstood your opinion, I apologize.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Ken the cruiser