New RCL Icon Class Ship to Bayonne, Possible Larger Ship for Baltimore

[nelblu]

Off the Anthem (sad) yesterday and a few tidbits that I foundinteresting from the Captain’s & his senior staff Q&A.

He answered a Pax question regarding Michael Bayley recentannouncement that either the Quantum or Anthem would relocate to Southampton and that an Icon class ship would port out ofBayonne. This response made me happy to havea newer ship that is tech advanced and in area of 200k tons size sail out ofneck of the woods.

Also, answered another Pax question as to “why no large®ships sail out of Baltimore. Heconfirmed that a larger ship is not able to pass under the bridge(?). However, he went on to say that thereare/have been discussions with Baltimore officials about moving the embarkationprocess before the bridge, therefore allowing for larger class ships.

Another interesting tid bit, was the answer to another Paxquestion regarding “will an Oasis class ship sail out of Bayonne.” My initial reaction, from comments made onthis board, was “no” since an Oasis class is too large to pass under theVerrazano Bridge. I was surprised whenhe said that “yes” it can fit under the bridge. However, Oasis class is a warmweather ship and she could only sail during the late Spring/Summer months. Bermuda stop(s ) are prevalent for this period and a good money maker forRCL, but Bermuda cannot at this time able to accommodate an Oasis class. Therefore, RCL cannot afford to minimize the Bermuda market. Interestinganswer.

[J&SLowery]

Also, answered another Pax question as to “why no large®ships sail out of Baltimore. Heconfirmed that a larger ship is not able to pass under the bridge(?). However, he went on to say that thereare/have been discussions with Baltimore officials about moving the embarkationprocess before the bridge, therefore allowing for larger class ships

Referring to the Key Bridge. Its the east side of the Baltimore Beltway I-695 as ships enter/exit the Port of Baltimore. They also pass under the Bay Bridge further south which is US Rt50, but that Bridge provides a greater clearance.

[JAMESCC]

Well as someone that always sails from NJ because we live here and someone that loves the bigger ships this is great news. If indeed this happens I would love to see a 200,000 ton ship based in NJ, and sail on one as well of course.

[bob brown]

I would be very happy to keep the Anthem in Bayonne...it is certainly new and "techy" enough, but it's biggest advantage is the two indoor pools, and the indoor seaplex, that make it ideal for cold weather cruising....much better than it's NCL rival across the bay....;)

[bob brown]

As for Baltimore....I sailed in and out of there on the NCL Dawn a few years ago....I had thought that the Radiance class was about the same size, although not sure about the 'air draft' (height)....one of those would be an improvement on the Grandeur, wouldn't it?

[dccramer]

Well as someone that always sails from NJ because we live here and someone that loves the bigger ships this is great news. If indeed this happens I would love to see a 200,000 ton ship based in NJ, and sail on one as well of course.

We live in Baltimore and would love to have a 200,000 ton ship sail out of a port within 50 -100 miles from here but they'd have to build a new pier and terminal that could handle it.

 

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[Keasel]

Also, answered another Pax question as to “why no large®ships sail out of Baltimore. Heconfirmed that a larger ship is not able to pass under the bridge(?). However, he went on to say that thereare/have been discussions with Baltimore officials about moving the embarkationprocess before the bridge, therefore allowing for larger class ships.

 

The Bay Bridge has a 186ft clearance. The Key Bridge has a 185ft clearance.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake_Bay_Bridge

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Scott_Key_Bridge_(Baltimore)

 

 

Both bridges have more clearance than the Sunshine Bridge in Tampa (180.5ft) that Radiance class ships sail under.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Skyway_Bridge

 

 

 

Ask Adam has addressed this.

 

Q. I live in Maryland and have been cruising from the Port of Baltimore since Royal Caribbean’s first year there. With the announcement that Carnival will no longer sail out of Baltimore after 2014, is there a chance that a second Royal Caribbean ship could use Baltimore as its home port? Also, do Radiance Class ships have access to the Port of Baltimore? I know there are height considerations given the height of the Key Bridge. – Jeff H.

A. Jeff, many thanks for your support of our deployment from Baltimore. We are not currently looking to add a second ship to Baltimore even with Carnival pulling out. However, we will always consider this if we feel that there is strong enough demand for a second ship. In the meantime, Radiance class can access the Port of Baltimore; however, we are pleased with the beautifully revitalized Grandeur of the Seas and are constantly looking at updating our deployment to provide variety and different ports of call.

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/connect/ask-adam-blog-series-august-2013-q-a/

[J&SLowery]

Regarding Radiance class and they're size- they are slightly bigger.

 

And simply put, yes, it would be a better option for Baltimore.

 

However, this has been debated both on here and discussed in many Captains talks and Loyalty Ambassador talks. Net result.....no Radiance class to date, which I believe suggests the actual answer...they're too tall. If they weren't they'd have been in Baltimore, as RCCL has been very successful filling ships year-round. Just like Bayonne, it's a drive up port proximate to a high income area. If RCCL could, they absolutely would. Of course, that's just this guys opinion.

 

See the post above....the debate continues:)

 

Considering Tampa's location relative to the equator vs Baltimore, I wonder how much greater the tide range is in Baltimore? 3-5' could make a significant difference.

Edited February 10, 2018 by J&SLowery

[Charles4515]

Off the Anthem (sad) yesterday and a few tidbits that I foundinteresting from the Captain’s & his senior staff Q&A.

However, he went on to say that thereare/have been discussions with Baltimore officials about moving the embarkationprocess before the bridge, therefore allowing for larger class ships.

 

 

You should take anything said at these Q&As about future deployments with a grain of salt. Onboard crew are the last to know.

 

As for Baltimore moving the embarkation process before the bridge, it is already before the bridge. You mean Baltimore moving the cruise dock and terminal to the other side of the Key Bridge. That is not going to happen.......Baltimore except for a tiny sliver is not on the other side.

[Charles4515]

Regarding Radiance class and they're size- they are slightly bigger.

 

And simply put, yes, it would be a better option for Baltimore.

 

However, this has been debated both on here and discussed in many Captains talks and Loyalty Ambassador talks. Net result.....no Radiance class to date, which I believe suggests the actual answer...they're too tall. If they weren't they'd have been in Baltimore, as RCCL has been very successful filling ships year-round. Just like Bayonne, it's a drive up port proximate to a high income area. If RCCL could, they absolutely would. Of course, that's just this guys opinion.

 

See the post above....the debate continues:)

 

Considering Tampa's location relative to the equator vs Baltimore, I wonder how much greater the tide range is in Baltimore? 3-5' could make a significant difference.

 

The tides do make a difference. As for the debate I would discount what is said by the Captain and crew however the President and Chief Operating Officer Adam Goldstein has said Radiance Class would fit. So they obviously have made a business decision not to currently deploy Radiance Class ships out of Baltimore.

[Biker19]

You should take anything said at these Q&As about future deployments with a grain of salt.

+1. During a recent Q&A the Captain kept referring to the new ship class coming to RCI as the Edge class (obviously confused with Celebrity Edge).

[Tony O]

In order to have a new cruise terminal south of the Bay bridge,You are looking at least $300 millions of dollars in investments.

You need to dredge a new shipping channel ,build a new pier and terminal dredge for the pier.

But before that you a looking at many local, state and federal govement permits being approved.

Then you need to create new road infrastructure again more permits.

Land acquisition and zoning changes more permits

[Biker19]

^ at which point you might as well move the operation to Norfolk.

[nelblu]

The tides do make a difference. As for the debate I would discount what is said by the Captain and crew however the President and Chief Operating Officer Adam Goldstein has said Radiance Class would fit. So they obviously have made a business decision not to currently deploy Radiance Class ships out of Baltimore.

 

Not to argue and I understand what you are saying, but there's a new executive in charge (Michael Bayley) and things/plans do change. Also, the Captain could have the easy way out and simply said that a bigger ship would not fit under the bridges and left it there.

[John&LaLa]

Are there any challenges to fueling an LNG powered ship? I would think it would initially be based in PE with Celebrity Edge

 

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[Biker19]

Are there any challenges to fueling an LNG powered ship? I would think it would initially be based in PE with Celebrity Edge

There are so many ships with LNG coming off the assembly line in the next few years that I would think many of the main turnaround ports will have the logistics in place to service them by the time Icon comes out.

[chengkp75]

As for a new cruise terminal in the Chesapeake below the bridges, the big thing to consider is not the maritime infrastructure needed (though that is costly and environmentally challenging), but the land infrastructure, the amount of roads, etc, to handle the passengers getting to/from the terminal. Not a true expert on the area, but there isn't a good area for this until Norfolk. And this would be a decision of the local zoning boards and residents, far more than RCI's CEO in order to get permitting, let alone the EPA and Corps of Engineers approval for dredging and pier permitting.

 

As for Oasis class in Bayonne, Oasis started her career there. The Oasis class ships were originally (not sure about the last couple) fitted with retractable exhausts to get sufficient clearance under not only the Verazzano bridge but also the Oresund bridge between Denmark and Sweden when she left the shipyard. These have been problematic since day one, and I don't know if they are still exercising these every couple of cruises like they used to, or have just let them soot themselves in the extended position.

 

Yes, there are challenges to bunkering LNG ships. First off, there is virtually no infrastructure in the US for this. Tote has facilities in Jax (using LNG tank trucks, for a container ship on a short run to PR) and in Seattle (for their Alaska container ships) that are proprietary to that company's ships. There is one facility in Louisiana for offshore supply boats. I'm not aware of whether even any permitting has been submitted for LNG operations in other port cities, but this is normally a long process (heck, Boston still shuts down all bridge traffic and the harbor when an LNG tanker comes in), and contentious due to safety concerns. From what I see, the cruise lines are building the LNG ships and hoping someone will ante up the millions for the infrastructure. This is not an easy thing, as you need a re-liquifaction plant of a size capable of handling the bunkers for one or more ships at a time, and the barges specially built, fire fighting capabilities on the tugs, etc, etc.

[Lady Hudson]

The problem with Norfolk, according to some locals I spoke with, is the US Navy. Norfolk had a cruise ship(s) for a short while but was discontinued. Seems that when the Navy wants to do to drills or training no other ship can be in the area. The Navy always keeps to their time schedule regardless of cruise ship plans. This interfered with scheduling for the ships. It wasn’t worth it to stay in Norfolk.

 

This sounds plausible to me since the same thing happened to us when going into Port Canaveral a few years back. There was some kind of submarine thing going on and we were not allowed to proceed. We were several hours late getting to port.

[storknurse13]

Having just moved out of the Norfolk area....Carnival sails out of the HalfMoon Cruise Terminal (Norfolk) several times a year. The area does have some difficulty handling all of the parking for ship passengers. There is parking in a lot but requires bussing passengers to the terminal. The parking is in a very shady part of town.

[John&LaLa]

The problem with Norfolk, according to some locals I spoke with, is the US Navy. Norfolk had a cruise ship(s) for a short while but was discontinued. Seems that when the Navy wants to do to drills or training no other ship can be in the area. The Navy always keeps to their time schedule regardless of cruise ship plans. This interfered with scheduling for the ships. It wasn’t worth it to stay in Norfolk.

 

This sounds plausible to me since the same thing happened to us when going into Port Canaveral a few years back. There was some kind of submarine thing going on and we were not allowed to proceed. We were several hours late getting to port.

Submarines come to PC to test missiles. But very infrequent. I've never had a cruise that had an issue. I have seen ships in the channel when a rocket launched. They may hold them for a landing, but those happen within 10 minutes of launch

 

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[Maraprince]

IMO, if you are going to have ships sailing out of Bayonne in the winter months, then the ship(s) need to have indoor areas/pools until they reach warner climes. Breakaway is not geared to any type of cool/cold weather which creates very crowded indoor areas if passengers are not able to use the outside decks due to bad weather.

 

MARAPRINCE

[MrNobdy]

I would be very happy to keep the Anthem in Bayonne...it is certainly new and "techy" enough, but it's biggest advantage is the two indoor pools, and the indoor seaplex, that make it ideal for cold weather cruising....much better than it's NCL rival across the bay....;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[steveru621]

I would be very happy to keep the Anthem in Bayonne...it is certainly new and "techy" enough, but it's biggest advantage is the two indoor pools, and the indoor seaplex, that make it ideal for cold weather cruising....much better than it's NCL rival across the bay....;)

 

Exactly.

 

I would also add the monetary implications. New ships tend to have a higher cabin price on all levels.

[OACAggie]

 

As for Oasis class in Bayonne, Oasis started her career there. The Oasis class ships were originally (not sure about the last couple) fitted with retractable exhausts to get sufficient clearance under not only the Verazzano bridge but also the Oresund bridge between Denmark and Sweden when she left the shipyard. These have been problematic since day one, and I don't know if they are still exercising these every couple of cruises like they used to, or have just let them soot themselves in the extended position.

 

I did not know Oasis started in Bayonne. I believe Quantum class have same type of exhaust stacks, though they do not need to be lowered for the Verrazano...at least Anthem didn’t when I sailed.

[Lady Hudson]

Submarines come to PC to test missiles. But very infrequent. I've never had a cruise that had an issue. I have seen ships in the channel when a rocket launched. They may hold them for a landing, but those happen within 10 minutes of launch

 

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Just telling your our experience. We were delayed getting into Port Canaveral by several hours. It may be rare, but it did happen to us.