Cutbacks and nickel and diming

[salty dingo]

Someone suggested a new thread to discuss this topic. This is the Carnival board but it's fair to compare other cruise lines to Carnival.

 

Personally, I have no problem with the nickel-and-dime approach, as long as the cost of the vacation when I get back home is where I planned for it to be. If everything is priced fairly and disclosed up front, then I can decide before I go whether or not it is a value for me.

 

Example - specialty restaurants. We do splurge once in a while at home and go to a nice restaurant for dinner. Think anniversary or birthdays, not regularly. Some folks may do this every week or at least once a month. Those folks probably would go frequently to a nice dinner on a cruise, which we may only go once.

 

So, the quality of the MDR food is of utmost importance, since we won't be eating in specialty restaurants much. Also, a ship with 15 specialty restaurants is pretty useless to us, since we would not be eating in most of them. May make for a quieter meal in the MDR though.

 

So, no problem with fees for dining in specialty restaurants here. However, if Carnival loses quality of the MDR food, we would no longer have much value sailing with them, and would look elsewhere for our next cruise.

[MBP1]

I hear a lot about cutback on this board, when taking inflation into account are cruises more expensive, cheaper or the same price as the past?

[salty dingo]

I hear a lot about cutback on this board, when taking inflation into account are cruises more expensive, cheaper or the same price as the past?

Depends on what you are talking about: cruise fare only, or the whole vacation. I think the cruise fares are less expensive after inflation, but the whole vacation cost is probably outpacing inflation for many people. Cruise lines keep dreaming up new ways to separate you from your money without it costing them very much to do so. The FTTF is a prime example. At least we are still free to ignore that.

[CheckersMidwest]

We have always taken nice land vacations and only started cruising a few years ago. With that being said, I don't see cutbacks yet compared to those that have cruised for years. I do know what land vacations cost along with the extra factors and definitely nickel & dimeing. Compared to our land vacations (Disney, Bahamas, Cancun, Jamaica) a cruise is still the most economical vacation with the most inclusions.

[salty dingo]

Compared to our land vacations (Disney, Bahamas, Cancun, Jamaica) a cruise is still the most economical vacation with the most inclusions.

Yep, because cruise lines get cheap labor, for one thing, and do not have to comply with all the regulations. Of course, AI land resorts in other countries have cheap labor too, but you have to add in a plane ticket. Also, I think the AI resorts are more likely to leave you alone and let you relax, while cruise lines CONSTANTLY pester you the entire vacation to spend more money.

[Schoifmom]

To be perfectly honest, I prefer the "add-on" approach. We simply pick and choose what we wish to spend our money on. If we don't want it, we don't have to pay for it! Places that include items that Carnival views as an add-on, typically end up charging everyone for it in the form of higher fares.

[beachbum53]

Since you brought up "cutbacks", here's something I've thought about. I know I'm not in the minority when I say that the Playlist Productions are basically crap. Obviously, Carnival is doing what they can (whether we like it or not) to keep cruise fares affordable for the average family. However, I would not be too upset if Carnival raised their prices a few dollars per person in order to afford a live band and some better entertainment in the theater. I don't care about not having chocolates on my pillow. They weren't that good any way. I don't care one way or the other about having or not having tablecloths in the MDR. But I do miss having a live band and good entertainment in the theater.

[sfaaa]

Expecting something for nothing is unrealistic in today's lean and mean economy. If you want a better product than the bare basic, trade up and pay up. You always have that choice.

[salty dingo]

Since you brought up "cutbacks", here's something I've thought about. I know I'm not in the minority when I say that the Playlist Productions are basically crap. Obviously, Carnival is doing what they can (whether we like it or not) to keep cruise fares affordable for the average family. However, I would not be too upset if Carnival raised their prices a few dollars per person in order to afford a live band and some better entertainment in the theater. I don't care about not having chocolates on my pillow. They weren't that good any way. I don't care one way or the other about having or not having tablecloths in the MDR. But I do miss having a live band and good entertainment in the theater.

I agree with you. I have been to some shows over the years but mostly have skipped them because I was just too full after dinner to keep my eyes open. Perhaps I am not alone, and Carnival has figured out that desire to see great shows is not what is filling the cabins these days.

 

I also heartily agree with the live music comments. Both the Muzak on the lido deck and the typical ship bands are usually lame on a ship. I would love to see some really good classic rock band. But the next person would want to see a Country act, another still would want Rap, and finally (God forbid!) someone would want to see a EDM DJ. No way they can cram all of that on a ship, so I guess they don't even try. And no, having ever larger ships to hold ever more choices is not my idea of a nice vacation. I will catch the acts I want to see elsewhere and will reserve the cruise for sun and sea and ports.

[VegasMark]

If you want a flavor of the way cruising used to be, watch an episode of The Love Boat. Food was more extravagant, and most everything was included, but the activities were cheesy, and none of the cool things on cruise ships these days were available. I think cruises are a better value now than they were years ago.

 

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[Megan_Strick]

Someone suggested a new thread to discuss this topic. This is the Carnival board but it's fair to compare other cruise lines to Carnival.

 

Personally, I have no problem with the nickel-and-dime approach, as long as the cost of the vacation when I get back home is where I planned for it to be. If everything is priced fairly and disclosed up front, then I can decide before I go whether or not it is a value for me.

 

Example - specialty restaurants. We do splurge once in a while at home and go to a nice restaurant for dinner. Think anniversary or birthdays, not regularly. Some folks may do this every week or at least once a month. Those folks probably would go frequently to a nice dinner on a cruise, which we may only go once.

 

So, the quality of the MDR food is of utmost importance, since we won't be eating in specialty restaurants much. Also, a ship with 15 specialty restaurants is pretty useless to us, since we would not be eating in most of them. May make for a quieter meal in the MDR though.

 

So, no problem with fees for dining in specialty restaurants here. However, if Carnival loses quality of the MDR food, we would no longer have much value sailing with them, and would look elsewhere for our next cruise.

 

 

I agree. It doesn't take much to make me happy. Everyone complains about the quality of food. I've never had an issue. I may do a specialty place once on a cruise but not every night.

[Organized Chaos]

We have always taken nice land vacations and only started cruising a few years ago. With that being said, I don't see cutbacks yet compared to those that have cruised for years. I do know what land vacations cost along with the extra factors and definitely nickel & dimeing. Compared to our land vacations (Disney, Bahamas, Cancun, Jamaica) a cruise is still the most economical vacation with the most inclusions.

Like you, we just started cruising. Our first was in 2016 and our second is next month. As new cruisers, we obviously can't miss what is no longer offered because we weren't around to experience those things when they were, but I read all about them and I'm not so sure I'd miss them anyway. Some of them I flat-out wouldn't care about if we cruised back then. So you're right, us new cruisers don't see the "cutback" that long-timers see. Anyone who's new now who sticks with it for the years to come will see changes of their own. With that said, I think some of the "cutbacks" that have been complained about lately aren't even true cutbacks in my opinion. It seems to be the popular new buzzword. For example, when Carnival adjusted the time at which you can choose your check-in time online to 90 days, some called it a cutback. I don't see how. It seems as if some want to complain and find any excuse. It might sound crass, but if someone is that unhappy with the current product, they should probably "shop" around. I know we will if we begin to feel that way. Everyone has their own tipping point at which they have to decide, "Is this product worth my money?"

 

As far as the cost of land vacations go, I think it depends on the people taking the vacation. You definitely get a lot for your money with a cruise, but it's certainly not the cheapest we can manage. One of our most favorite vacations is the Smoky Mountains. When we're there, we love to take drives and go hiking, so things that are nearly free to do. That's a vacation we love and can do for around $1,000 give or take (family of 3). That includes the gas to drive there/home (and around while we're there), renting a cabin & buying some food to cook for ourselves, maybe go to a restaurant a couple times, and do a few other things like mini golf, one time we went to the Ripley's Aquarium in Gatlinburg, which was awesome by the way, and a few other miscellaneous things that cost. Cruising is actually the most expensive vacation we take, but yes, economical for what you get.

 

Yep, because cruise lines get cheap labor, for one thing, and do not have to comply with all the regulations. Of course, AI land resorts in other countries have cheap labor too, but you have to add in a plane ticket. Also, I think the AI resorts are more likely to leave you alone and let you relax, while cruise lines CONSTANTLY pester you the entire vacation to spend more money.

Cheap labor by U.S. standards, maybe, but a vast majority of them make more working for cruise lines than they'll ever make in their home countries. I'm not denying how hard they work, because they bust their butts, but I think the term "cheap labor" is relative in this case.

[Megan_Strick]

We have always taken nice land vacations and only started cruising a few years ago. With that being said, I don't see cutbacks yet compared to those that have cruised for years. I do know what land vacations cost along with the extra factors and definitely nickel & dimeing. Compared to our land vacations (Disney, Bahamas, Cancun, Jamaica) a cruise is still the most economical vacation with the most inclusions.

 

Same for me. The vacation usually isnt the problem its the food etc. When you have a family of 4 eating 3 times a day plus snacks its way more affordable to cruise. To me its the most economical for my family and I can also make payments.

[dsotm73]

Yep, because cruise lines get cheap labor, for one thing, and do not have to comply with all the regulations. Of course, AI land resorts in other countries have cheap labor too, but you have to add in a plane ticket. Also, I think the AI resorts are more likely to leave you alone and let you relax, while cruise lines CONSTANTLY pester you the entire vacation to spend more money.

 

 

 

I’ve never been “CONSTANTLY pestered” to spend more money on any cruise. We prepay nearly everything and have often left ship with a credit balance on our S&S cards due to refunds of port fees. A simple “no thanks” is sufficient to handle any sales pitch.

 

 

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[Organized Chaos]

Since you brought up "cutbacks", here's something I've thought about. I know I'm not in the minority when I say that the Playlist Productions are basically crap. Obviously, Carnival is doing what they can (whether we like it or not) to keep cruise fares affordable for the average family. However, I would not be too upset if Carnival raised their prices a few dollars per person in order to afford a live band and some better entertainment in the theater. I don't care about not having chocolates on my pillow. They weren't that good any way. I don't care one way or the other about having or not having tablecloths in the MDR. But I do miss having a live band and good entertainment in the theater.

But the market drives this part of a cruise, don't you think? Has enough time passed since the introduction of Playlist Productions to have noticed if they're successful to Carnival passengers overall? Surely they have a pretty good idea by now. It's to my understanding that the theaters on the new, bigger ships are smaller. Do I think that's a good idea? No, but I have to believe that they did it with data and stats in hand. If it were done blindly, that's a pretty big decision to make in such a way. We loved Epic Rock and look forward to it again next month. We also plan to attend two or three more of them that we haven't seen. I'll wait to pass my overall judgement of Playlist until I see them. I think I read that one of them has a live band, I forget which one, but I know it's not available on our next cruise. That would be nice to see a band incorporated into many of them.

[ParrotRob]

Yep, because cruise lines get cheap labor, for one thing, and do not have to comply with all the regulations. Of course, AI land resorts in other countries have cheap labor too, but you have to add in a plane ticket. Also, I think the AI resorts are more likely to leave you alone and let you relax, while cruise lines CONSTANTLY pester you the entire vacation to spend more money.

 

Sure there are lots of things that cost extra, but I've personally never felt "pestered" to spend more money onboard.

[Joebucks]

"Cutbacks" and "nickle and diming" are the most annoying posts on here. The market truly decides what it wants. If everyone wanted the "traditional" cruise experience, then everyone would be on the most expensive, luxury ships. For example, some people will tell you Disney makes the best cruise. The only run 4 ships though. Sounds like it's not the best for everyone. Carnival has 25. A few, loud, people always think they speak for everyone.

 

I love the model of Carnival. I don't need to pay extra for a bunch of things that I don't want. I sat in on a playlist production. No I was not impressed. Actually, I am not a fan of any of those types of shows. Why would I want to pay more for it? At some point, there are lots of things that more people would rather not pay for vs want to pay for. Tough decisions have to be made based off of what the market wants.

[salty dingo]

I’ve never been “CONSTANTLY pestered” to spend more money on any cruise.

You have never heard bingo announcements on the PA, to give one small example?

[crusinpsychRN]

I’ve never been “CONSTANTLY pestered” to spend more money on any cruise. We prepay nearly everything and have often left ship with a credit balance on our S&S cards due to refunds of port fees. A simple “no thanks” is sufficient to handle any sales pitch.

 

 

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I haven't either.

[ParrotRob]

You have never heard bingo announcements on the PA, to give one small example?

 

I have, sure, but I don't consider that being pestered to spend money. I consider that advertising something that's available. It's not like they're hard-selling me.

[salty dingo]

The market truly decides what it wants.

Yes, and the market will (I predict) reward the cruise lines who get more right about what the market wants.

 

The market is many people with many interests. Some have kids, some like to eat gourmet food, some like to get hammered, some like to hook up, some like to explore new ports, etc. One ship can never be all things to all people, so they try to hit the sweet spot where they are more of the things that more of the people want, while trying to annoy the fewest people in the process.

 

I don't care if there is a Chef's table... great for those who want it but it's not for me. On NCL, it's great that there is an entire section of the ship with access given only to the select few who book the most expensive cabins. Some people drive, some fly commercial, and some hire private jets. It makes no difference to me what someone else spends their money on as long as it does not affect me (e.g. all those people driving and all those private jets don't delay my commercial flight.)

 

There are a few areas where the cruise lines intentionally make life a bit less pleasant for their guests in order to extract more money:

• FTTF - in order for some to pay extra to get onboard, others have to get on later. So now we have the "assigned check in time" ... this is just fallout from the new money grab.
  
• Ice - simple thing you take for granted at home, and is self service on ever floor of a hotel. On a cruise, it's difficult to get ice. You have to special request it from the steward during the rare time he is available, or schlep it from the lido. Not convenient. Why??? so people will just go to a bar instead of having a drink in the cabin.
  
• Alcohol - biggest money pit ever. NCL is going to eat Carnival's lunch with this one. Of course, not everyone is a big drinker ... the Red Frog self pour kiosks are a step in the right direction, but why is there not a "Beer-only package?" I guarantee you is is not because of "the market"... market would love it but Carnival would rather sell you liquor at $60 a day than beer for less. Why? Because they can make more money... and if people willingly buy the only package, why would they offer a less expensive one? Solution - don't buy the package.
  
• Advertisements - they are all over the Fun Times, all over the PA during the day. Most folks can tune it out but it is always there... "hey! here's a great thing to do... it only costs $$$. Try it!"
  
• I could go on and on but am tired of typing...
  

[A&Jfamily]

I have been cruising Carnival for over a decade and depending on the cruise, the base fare and port fees haven't changed much - which is saying something when you take into account how much more we pay for everything else.

 

I like what Carnival offers - good bang for the buck. We are not shoppers, don't buy photos, don't play bingo or take classes in the gym. We don't drink enough to justify CHEERS but certainly enjoy a few martinis at Alchemy at night. We still enjoy the MDR and eat their most nights, but truly do enjoy the specialty restaurants - again it is a bang for the buck thing as for $70 DH and I can go eat in the steakhouse, a meal that would cost us $250 or more at Ruth's Chris.

 

I also recognize that Carnival has added a lot of "free" things that didn't exist before - Comedy Club, Guys, Serenity and Blue Iguana to name just a few. I am happy to see the chocolates on the pillows go by the wayside in favor of keeping the base costs low. We can then pick and chose what we want to spend our money on. I'm not much for nickle and diming - but I don't feel that is what Carnival is doing because they have provided many new free options in addition to some small pay options. We aren't going to pay for a private lesson on flow rider or to climb a rock wall, but my kids sure enjoy what is provided on Sports Square.

 

Carnival has clearly targeted itself as a cost-effective, family line geared to fun. But because of this low price, it can attract the lowest common denominator which is its biggest downfall. I get ever so tired of the people I see removing their auto tips because "they drank to much and ran out of money" or the people that come on here and post, freaked out, because they had to cancel their cruise, didn't have insurance etc and they are having to wait 3 weeks to get their money and are missing their vacation. These are the people that cruise Carnival because it is cheap - whether they can afford it or not - and that causes problems on many levels.

 

Carnival's other weakness/strength is it pretty much is a Caribbean only line. If you want to see the world, you need to move up to Princess. Which after 15+ cruises with Carnival, is where we are ultimately headed as it is time to explore the new. Carnival will still be cheap and fun getaways with the kids - but to truly travel, we need to explore with Princess.

[1stqtpie]

Cruises are in the business to make more money, sure they are going to try to upsell you if they can. You don't know if you don't try. I don't think there really is a more beautiful, less expensive way to see the Carribbean.

[Micahs Grandad]

You have never heard bingo announcements on the PA, to give one small example?

 

Not to mention the sales and the wonderful art works they are unloading unlimited copies of

[Joebucks]

Yes, and the market will (I predict) reward the cruise lines who get more right about what the market wants.

 

The market is many people with many interests. Some have kids, some like to eat gourmet food, some like to get hammered, some like to hook up, some like to explore new ports, etc. One ship can never be all things to all people, so they try to hit the sweet spot where they are more of the things that more of the people want, while trying to annoy the fewest people in the process.

 

This is exactly why we are seeing the larger ships with more choices. No ship can be everything to everyone. But a larger ship can be more to more people. Instead of forcing everyone to buy everything, which would never fill the ship, you get to choose! Also known as nickle and diming.

 

I don't care if there is a Chef's table... great for those who want it but it's not for me. On NCL, it's great that there is an entire section of the ship with access given only to the select few who book the most expensive cabins. Some people drive, some fly commercial, and some hire private jets. It makes no difference to me what someone else spends their money on as long as it does not affect me (e.g. all those people driving and all those private jets don't delay my commercial flight.)

 

There are a few areas where the cruise lines intentionally make life a bit less pleasant for their guests in order to extract more money:

• FTTF - in order for some to pay extra to get onboard, others have to get on later. So now we have the "assigned check in time" ... this is just fallout from the new money grab.
  
• Ice - simple thing you take for granted at home, and is self service on ever floor of a hotel. On a cruise, it's difficult to get ice. You have to special request it from the steward during the rare time he is available, or schlep it from the lido. Not convenient. Why??? so people will just go to a bar instead of having a drink in the cabin.
  
• Alcohol - biggest money pit ever. NCL is going to eat Carnival's lunch with this one. Of course, not everyone is a big drinker ... the Red Frog self pour kiosks are a step in the right direction, but why is there not a "Beer-only package?" I guarantee you is is not because of "the market"... market would love it but Carnival would rather sell you liquor at $60 a day than beer for less. Why? Because they can make more money... and if people willingly buy the only package, why would they offer a less expensive one? Solution - don't buy the package.
  
• Advertisements - they are all over the Fun Times, all over the PA during the day. Most folks can tune it out but it is always there... "hey! here's a great thing to do... it only costs $$$. Try it!"
  
• I could go on and on but am tired of typing...
  

 

I think you're really reaching here. Ice doesn't make or break a vacation for me. Let alone that it was always stocked in my room by my room steward.

 

I do agree with you that Carnival's drink system needs an overhaul. I seem to be one of the few here that is against Cheers in most cases. $120 a day, every day, for a couple, is simply too much for most. Again, I would like more choices. What if there was an option for say, half price that had different limits?

 

NCL's program is a breath of fresh air, but it is not perfect, and definitely not free.