Cutbacks and nickel and diming

[Retired_to_Cruise]

I don't believe them, but that's just me. LOL. I can't imagine that they don't take an administrative fee off the top. That's gazillions of dollars that they have to handle and disperse. That's not free or cheap.

 

Obviously you have no understanding of the requirements for handling and financial reporting when it comes to the collection and management of gratuities! Making such an obviously inaccurate statement that implies financial mismanagement by Carnival shows your disdain for this company and the people who manage it. But that is some people's personalities when it comes to making statements they will never have to prove. Sad! It ranks right up there with salty dingo's earlier claim about Carnival being able to not follow regulations which he/she failed to prove when I called him/her on it. Must be nice to be able to make all kinds of false accusations that you can easily avoid defending. Seems to be the norm now days. Sad!

Edited May 11, 2018 by Retired_to_Cruise

[Havingfun2010]

Cutbacks is the most overused term here. The thread is really two topics, cutbacks and nickel and diming. Literally almost any change is interpreted by some here as a cutback. Are there cutbacks? Sure there are, Carnival has them as well as the other major players. More now then ever before. Why? Another easy lob, the reason is they are building ships that cost around a billion dollars each (some a little less and some a little more). They are stock companies and need to perform for their stockholders. That said, cruise prices are fairly in line with where they were years ago. So where do they make up that money..... (we have come onto the second portion of the thread) extra fees. keep the clients on the ship or keep them at the cruise lines private ports. They all do it.....but...... some do it much better than others.

 

 

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I actually agree with you.....especially the part that says "some do it much better than others".

[2legit410]

Yes, and the market will (I predict) reward the cruise lines who get more right about what the market wants.

 

The market is many people with many interests. Some have kids, some like to eat gourmet food, some like to get hammered, some like to hook up, some like to explore new ports, etc. One ship can never be all things to all people, so they try to hit the sweet spot where they are more of the things that more of the people want, while trying to annoy the fewest people in the process.

 

I don't care if there is a Chef's table... great for those who want it but it's not for me. On NCL, it's great that there is an entire section of the ship with access given only to the select few who book the most expensive cabins. Some people drive, some fly commercial, and some hire private jets. It makes no difference to me what someone else spends their money on as long as it does not affect me (e.g. all those people driving and all those private jets don't delay my commercial flight.)

 

There are a few areas where the cruise lines intentionally make life a bit less pleasant for their guests in order to extract more money:

• FTTF - in order for some to pay extra to get onboard, others have to get on later. So now we have the "assigned check in time" ... this is just fallout from the new money grab.
  
• Ice - simple thing you take for granted at home, and is self service on ever floor of a hotel. On a cruise, it's difficult to get ice. You have to special request it from the steward during the rare time he is available, or schlep it from the lido. Not convenient. Why??? so people will just go to a bar instead of having a drink in the cabin.
  
• Alcohol - biggest money pit ever. NCL is going to eat Carnival's lunch with this one. Of course, not everyone is a big drinker ... the Red Frog self pour kiosks are a step in the right direction, but why is there not a "Beer-only package?" I guarantee you is is not because of "the market"... market would love it but Carnival would rather sell you liquor at $60 a day than beer for less. Why? Because they can make more money... and if people willingly buy the only package, why would they offer a less expensive one? Solution - don't buy the package.
  
• Advertisements - they are all over the Fun Times, all over the PA during the day. Most folks can tune it out but it is always there... "hey! here's a great thing to do... it only costs $$$. Try it!"
  
• I could go on and on but am tired of typing...
  

So I normally try to read every comment on a post before I reply to one, but when I do that, I usually forget about responding to ones on earlier pages. And you and I are "old friends" from that drinking post yesterday [emoji13] so if I repeat something that was said after where I paused my reading, forgive me.

 

1. I cannot speak for FTTF, but I for one am really excited to experience the new check in times. I haven't cruised in 3 years, and the last time we did, this was not in effect. We generally had to wait in line for 45 minutes to an hour and a half, depending on the time of year, to get into the cruise terminal. Of course, summer months, which are hotter than Hades in Galveston (which we are still sailing out of exclusively), had the longer outdoor wait times. From what I've read, the check in times have dramatically cut down on the wait to board. If I had to choose between getting onboard at 11, but having to wait in line for an hour plus or not getting on board until even as late as 1 or 2 (which isnt the case if you get your check in time early enough), but not having to wait more than 15 minutes, that is an easy choice for me. Particularly as the cruise we are taking next week will be our first with kids.

2. I don't disagree entirely that the cheers package is ultimately designed to make the cruiseline money. However, I do think you should be telling John H and your post cruise surveys, as frequently and loudly as possible, about your desire to have a beer package. You and all of your beer drinking friends! Carnival does listen to it's guests! I don't think that they are deliberately ignoring beer drinkers in order to price gouge. After all, they have the wine packages, which, as I understand it, are very reasonably priced.

 

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[Thorncroft]

Obviously you have no understanding of the requirements for handling and financial reporting when it comes to the collection and management of gratuities! Making such an obviously inaccurate statement that implies financial mismanagement by Carnival shows your disdain for this company and the people who manage it. But that is some people's personalities when it comes to making statements they will never have to prove. Sad! It ranks right up there with salty dingo's earlier claim about Carnival being able to not follow regulations which he/she failed to prove when I called him/her on it. Must be nice to be able to make all kinds of false accusations that you can easily avoid defending. Seems to be the norm now days. Sad!

 

 

Please explain how Carnival handles their gratuity collection and disbursment. We're all ears.

[jsglow]

I have been cruising Carnival for over a decade and depending on the cruise, the base fare and port fees haven't changed much - which is saying something when you take into account how much more we pay for everything else.

 

I like what Carnival offers - good bang for the buck. We are not shoppers, don't buy photos, don't play bingo or take classes in the gym. We don't drink enough to justify CHEERS but certainly enjoy a few martinis at Alchemy at night. We still enjoy the MDR and eat their most nights, but truly do enjoy the specialty restaurants - again it is a bang for the buck thing as for $70 DH and I can go eat in the steakhouse, a meal that would cost us $250 or more at Ruth's Chris.

 

I also recognize that Carnival has added a lot of "free" things that didn't exist before - Comedy Club, Guys, Serenity and Blue Iguana to name just a few. I am happy to see the chocolates on the pillows go by the wayside in favor of keeping the base costs low. We can then pick and chose what we want to spend our money on. I'm not much for nickle and diming - but I don't feel that is what Carnival is doing because they have provided many new free options in addition to some small pay options. We aren't going to pay for a private lesson on flow rider or to climb a rock wall, but my kids sure enjoy what is provided on Sports Square.

 

Carnival has clearly targeted itself as a cost-effective, family line geared to fun. But because of this low price, it can attract the lowest common denominator which is its biggest downfall. I get ever so tired of the people I see removing their auto tips because "they drank to much and ran out of money" or the people that come on here and post, freaked out, because they had to cancel their cruise, didn't have insurance etc and they are having to wait 3 weeks to get their money and are missing their vacation. These are the people that cruise Carnival because it is cheap - whether they can afford it or not - and that causes problems on many levels.

 

Carnival's other weakness/strength is it pretty much is a Caribbean only line. If you want to see the world, you need to move up to Princess. Which after 15+ cruises with Carnival, is where we are ultimately headed as it is time to explore the new. Carnival will still be cheap and fun getaways with the kids - but to truly travel, we need to explore with Princess.

 

Agree strongly with both these statements. Carnival offers a particular product quite well. I'll look to Carnival first when we're doing a week long sea based Caribbean vacation. Beyond that (or even doing that to out-of-the-way places), others are far more appropriate. Interestingly, to fill its role, Carnival necessarily has to accept the first highlighted item. It's all good.

Edited May 11, 2018 by jsglow

[Joebucks]

We recently booked flights to Orlando on one of the ultra low cost carriers. $29pp. We opted not to buy any of the extras except for one checked piece of luggage. It was cheaper than driving our own car and filling it up with gas. The way I see it, by “unbundling” fares, the travel industry is giving passengers the flexibility of only paying for the services they want. Call it nickel and diming. I call it brilliant.

 

 

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Then some of these people don't read, show up at the airport, expecting everything to be included for $29. They find out there is another $100 in fees to bring giant luggage. Bringing it to $129. So sick of being "nickel and dimed" they will spend $400 on a flight next time. At that point, it's not even about the money, it's the thought of being charged. It was a ripple in their perception of what is "free". "Nickel and diming" is annoying, overused, and most often used by those with no understanding of business, economics, or common sense.

 

If you are concerning yourself with anything but the bottom line price, you are creating a fuss over nothing. Nothing is free. Everything costs money. Having the choice to choose what you want to buy and not buy, is a huge difference. Many people enjoy a model of not paying for every possible activity, amenity, entertainment, dining, and souvenir option up front. For me, I don't need broadway shows, unlimited alcohol, robes, tableclothes, and countless other things. Every person is different. Some people don't even care for dining rooms at all. There's obviously something being done right about Carnival's model for them to be #1. If it is so terrible, any other cruise line is free to steal their business with a better model.

[CatsinShow]

Agree strongly with both these statements. Carnival offers a particular product quite well. I'll look to Carnival first when we're doing a week long sea based Caribbean vacation. Beyond that (or even doing that to out-of-the-way places), others are far more appropriate. Interestingly, to fill its role, Carnival necessarily has to accept the first highlighted item. It's all good.

 

I'm going on my first Carnival Cruise today...a quick 3 day one out of Long Beach after booking with a local group at a fairly low rate. As snobby as it may be, I admit I've always avoided Carnival for what the poster you quoted just said so this cruise is sort of a good way for me to test it out (although a booze cruise probably isn't the best one to compare other Carnival Cruises to I imagine!). Out of CA, our choices of cruises and lines are extremely limited.

[jimbo5544]

I actually agree with you.....especially the part that says "some do it much better than others".

LOL, why do I think we have different interpretations tho.......

[jimbo5544]

Please explain how Carnival handles their gratuity collection and disbursment. We're all ears.

So many places you can take the all ears comment........:D

[jimbo5544]

We sat near guest services with drinks in hand in January, listening to the excuses for removing gratuities - they were all ridiculous!

....and really a sad thing.....

[ksmcdonald]

I just have to say that in 1988, we went on the Carnival Holiday in a balcony for a 7 day cruise out of Miami. We paid $700 per person for that cruise. This was 30 years ago and I really don't think the prices are that much more today. It might seem like cutback and nickel diming but really, what other industry still charges basically the same price for something 30 years later. Just factoring in inflation you would think prices would be much higher. They have just found other ways to make a profit, like now offering specialty dining etc.

[Retired_to_Cruise]

Please explain how Carnival handles their gratuity collection and disbursment. We're all ears.

 

Only after you explain to me how you know that they take an administrative fee off the top of the collected gratuities before they pay them out to their employees! And only after you do your own research to get up to speed on how companies that collect gratuities for their employees must, collect, handle, disburse, account for, and report these action through their financial and accounting systems and on to the various taxing authority that are required. And then, do a little research on how financial and accounting systems work and the requirements for legal audits that their accounting groups, firms, and taxing bodies require. That shouldn't be a long process for you since you have claimed that you have employees and have to do lots of the same things for them. I know they don't take any of the "tips" that you give them (as you clearly stated), so you must not be taking any administrative fees for that.

[maldenmusic]

My first cruise was 2009. I cruise mostly for the enjoyment of being out on the open sea which is something I wouldn't otherwise experience.

[Thorncroft]

Only after you explain to me how you know that they take an administrative fee off the top of the collected gratuities before they pay them out to their employees! And only after you do your own research to get up to speed on how companies that collect gratuities for their employees must, collect, handle, disburse, account for, and report these action through their financial and accounting systems and on to the various taxing authority that are required. And then, do a little research on how financial and accounting systems work and the requirements for legal audits that their accounting groups, firms, and taxing bodies require. That shouldn't be a long process for you since you have claimed that you have employees and have to do lots of the same things for them. I know they don't take any of the "tips" that you give them (as you clearly stated), so you must not be taking any administrative fees for that.

 

Yeah, I didn't think you could.

[salty dingo]

I do think you should be telling John H and your post cruise surveys, as frequently and loudly as possible, about your desire to have a beer package. You and all of your beer drinking friends! Carnival does listen to it's guests! I don't think that they are deliberately ignoring beer drinkers in order to price gouge. After all, they have the wine packages, which, as I understand it, are very reasonably priced.

They do have a Pour Your Own Beer station, and I will try that. At $4 a beer it may just be the equivalent of a package. With gratuity, Cheers is about $60 a day and 15 beers x $4 = $60... not that I would be able to drink 15 beers in a day. So a realistic number may be six beers, or $24. I would pay that for a package but would not want to pay it for DW who does not drink beer at all.

 

Last I looked, the Pour Your Own Beer station does not require everyone in the cabin to pour beer every day and spend a fixed amount every day, so it may just be the answer. I will let everyone know in about 100 more days!

[Warm Breezes]

IMHO it is all a matter of your own personal perspective. Some people are tend to view things as "cutbacks and nickel and diming". Others tend to view things as "changes and choices". I am a "changes and choices" type of person. I like both Carnival and NCL for different reasons. I am willing to try any line if the cost met my budget and the ship offered what I was looking for in that vacation. I tend to set my expectations based on my current research and purchase the vacation that my research tells me will best fit my wants and needs for this vacation at the budget I am willing to spend. I've rarely been disappointed by this approach and when I have been I take it as a lesson learned and move on. I like where the cruising industry is right now. I like the choices I have and the options available to me. Sometimes I find a really great deal and I like it even more.

 

I enjoy sailing on Carnival. We have gotten some really good Casino rates on our last couple of cruises. I like the MDR food. The entertainment is ok (in some cases better than it was just a few years ago). I don't feel pressured to do anything I don't want to do or spend any money where I don't want to. Yes there have been changes. Some for the better and some for the worse. Nothing though that has taken away from my enjoyment of sailing on Carnival and the value is still as good if not better today as it was when we first started sailing them in 2005.

 

I enjoy sailing on NCL. Now when we sail with them we get the Specialty Dining and UBP included that we don't get on Carnival. Yes we do pay more our NCL cruises. But for what we get the value is still there and as long as the value is there we do tend to splurge a little sometimes. DH loves the Specialty Restaurants and it is nice getting a drink when ever and where ever we want to without worrying what we are doing to our budget. It is something we just don't splurge on when we sail Carnival because the value is not there in that type of splurging there. We love the entertainment on NCL. Yes there have been some changes. Some for the better and some for the worse. Nothing though that has taken away from my enjoyment of sailing on NCL. I can honestly say that my last NCL cruise on NCL Escape is my favorite cruise to date...that in itself gave it value to me.

 

We currently have one cruise booked this year on NCL Getaway and one cruise booked next year on Carnival Magic. We splurged on NCL Getaway with an Extended Aft Balcony. This will be our most expensive cruise for 2 yet....but this is a our 30th anniversary and I am paying for things want to have out of this vacation for our anniversary. I expect the only thing I will purchase on this cruise will be a Cruise Next Certificate as our Specialty Dining and our Drinks are already included. I can't see where I will be "Nickle and Dimed" but I sure do love the option of different restaurants to choose from on our anniversary. Our cruise next year is booked on the Carnival Magic. We will be bringing our 2 adult kids with us on this cruise. We sailed with them last on the Carnival Dream, Magic's sister ship, 2 years ago. It was my favorite Carnival Cruise to date. We loved the layout of the ship, the entertainment was good and so was the MDR food. I am not a fan of Carnival's buffet (love NCL's) but there are so many other options that it doesn't matter. As I am doing my research for this cruise I am not seeing any changes or "cutbacks" since we took our Carnival Dream cruise that would make me expect this next one to be any less enjoyable.

 

Someday we will say more lines than the 4 we have already sailed. Retirement is coming up in a couple of years and I look forward to expanding our horizons. One thing I know for sure....I will be watching for the changes and choices, setting my expectations appropriately, and having a great time on whatever ship I choose.

[ParrotRob]

If it does not work that way, it sure should. My bet is the system is well defined, anything that substantial would be under corporate and outside audit review.

 

 

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I don't know. My company manages to pay far more employees than carnival could dream of all by themselves without expensive trouble handling and disbursing.

[Retired_to_Cruise]

Yeah, I didn't think you could.

 

Oh I can, But I know you cannot support your claims about Carnival taking an "administrative fee". Let me give you a little tease. The company, in this case Carnival, is not allowed to take any portion of the gratuities. They are targeted for those in the gratuities pool and not the company. Depending on what tax laws govern Carnival they are required to report the gratuities that are collected (easy to do), and how much each of the employees in the gratuities pools are given (easy to do). This must be reported to the taxing bodies that the employees will have to pay taxes to. The companies financial reports must contain records of the amount of gratuities collected and the amount disbursed. All of these numbers have to be verified by the company auditors and the outside auditors that Carnival engages. All of these numbers must also be included in the proper accounts in the various levels of General Ledgers that Carnival uses. My guess those ledgers start at the ship level and are rolled up into various company and corporate ledgers that are required by law.

 

Now if you still want to pretend that there is some administrative fee taken out before the employees are paid, you should realize that every transaction that hits you S&S card also hits the ship level general ledger with the same account codes that are used to debit your S&S card. That way you insure that the ledgers have balanced transactions, ie a debit and a credit. This is a very simple business financial picture to make sure that you understand. If you don't, then you definitely do not own any kind of business other than a ponzi scheme.

 

 

Your turn. Prove your accusation.

[Thorncroft]

Oh I can, But I know you cannot support your claims about Carnival taking an "administrative fee". Let me give you a little tease. The company, in this case Carnival, is not allowed to take any portion of the gratuities. They are targeted for those in the gratuities pool and not the company. Depending on what tax laws govern Carnival they are required to report the gratuities that are collected (easy to do), and how much each of the employees in the gratuities pools are given (easy to do). This must be reported to the taxing bodies that the employees will have to pay taxes to. The companies financial reports must contain records of the amount of gratuities collected and the amount disbursed. All of these numbers have to be verified by the company auditors and the outside auditors that Carnival engages. All of these numbers must also be included in the proper accounts in the various levels of General Ledgers that Carnival uses. My guess those ledgers start at the ship level and are rolled up into various company and corporate ledgers that are required by law.

 

Now if you still want to pretend that there is some administrative fee taken out before the employees are paid, you should realize that every transaction that hits you S&S card also hits the ship level general ledger with the same account codes that are used to debit your S&S card. That way you insure that the ledgers have balanced transactions, ie a debit and a credit. This is a very simple business financial picture to make sure that you understand. If you don't, then you definitely do not own any kind of business other than a ponzi scheme.

 

 

Your turn. Prove your accusation.

 

Let me refresh your memory of what I actually posted. No accusation of any kind there. Just my personal speculation. Enough with your unfounded hysteria. You still haven't told me what Carnival does with their gratuities.. Unless you actually work for Carnival, you can only guess at how they handle this, just like everyone else. Therefore, you can't answer me truthfully.

 

"I don't believe them, but that's just me. LOL. I can't imagine that they don't take an administrative fee off the top. That's gazillions of dollars that they have to handle and disperse. That's not free or cheap."

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by Thorncroft

[Retired_to_Cruise]

Let me refresh your memory of what I actually posted. No accusation of any kind there. Just my personal speculation. Enough with your unfounded hysteria. You still haven't told me what Carnival does with their gratuities.. Unless you actually work for Carnival, you can only guess at how they handle this, just like everyone else. Therefore, you can't answer me truthfully.

 

"I don't believe them, but that's just me. LOL. I can't imagine that they don't take an administrative fee off the top. That's gazillions of dollars that they have to handle and disperse. That's not free or cheap."

 

 

 

Nice big crock you are hauling round. You have confirmed my estimation of your business and accounting acumen. I believe I told you what Carnival does with the gratuities they collect. They pay them out to their employees based on the percentages they have described to all of us in their gratuities breakdown. They are not allowed to take an administrative fee for doing so. That is part of the cost of running their accounting system, not of what is collected for gratuities. It would be like saying that they figure out what they are going to pay in their payroll system, and then take part of that money as an administrative fee for paying their employees.

 

I don't know why I am wasting my time talking to a moving Thorncraft wall. He/she just doesn't get it and never will.

[Thorncroft]

Nice big crock you are hauling round. You have confirmed my estimation of your business and accounting acumen. I believe I told you what Carnival does with the gratuities they collect. They pay them out to their employees based on the percentages they have described to all of us in their gratuities breakdown. They are not allowed to take an administrative fee for doing so. That is part of the cost of running their accounting system, not of what is collected for gratuities. It would be like saying that they figure out what they are going to pay in their payroll system, and then take part of that money as an administrative fee for paying their employees.

 

I don't know why I am wasting my time talking to a moving Thorncraft wall. He/she just doesn't get it and never will.

 

Whatever, retired dude. I've been in busiiness since 1993, contracting with a federal government agency. Obviously, we're not in a tipped based industry, so it's not something that I'm familiar with and have stated as much. You, however, have done nothing to make me change my mind; your thinly veiled and pathetic insults notwithstanding. I still don't believe Carnival. LOL.

[SNJCruisers]

You have never heard bingo announcements on the PA, to give one small example?

How about Art Auctions or port talks that push Carnival sponsored excursions and Carnival "authorized" shops that obviously have a kick back?

[salty dingo]

How about Art Auctions or port talks that push Carnival sponsored excursions and Carnival "authorized" shops that obviously have a kick back?

Buyer beware. If others are suckered, it's not going to affect me... well if they get so mad they mutiny, maybe...

[jimbo5544]

Whatever, retired dude. I've been in busiiness since 1993, contracting with a federal government agency. Obviously, we're not in a tipped based industry, so it's not something that I'm familiar with and have stated as much. You, however, have done nothing to make me change my mind; your thinly veiled and pathetic insults notwithstanding. I still don't believe Carnival. LOL.

 

 

 

Never knew your name was Thomas.......

 

 

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[SNJCruisers]

Nickel and dimes, how about a quarter. Last month on our cruise my husband and I had coupons for a free drink up to $9.25. Glass of wine was $9.50. Yes they charged me 25 cents plus 4 cent tip!

They charged you the price difference, plus 15% gratuity on the difference. Nothing wrong with that at all. How about if they only let you use that free drink voucher for something that had a hard cap of 9.25 and anything above that would have been full price plus gratuity? That drink would have cost you just under 11.00 with tip.