Cutbacks and nickel and diming

[Sizzlechest]

Charging extra for a scarce resource like specialty dining is fair. You can't open it to everyone for free since it will be overcrowded. The charge limits the demand. That's fair. The problem is that the modern ships are getting divided into many different small areas to provide more variety. This is not necessarily a good thing since this creates even more shortages that require upcharges. Carnival still has a lot of stuff included in the fare. NCL has been actively replacing areas of the ship that used to be free with upcharge versions that are not worth it. They're the kings of nickel and diming so much so that I've jumped ship from them and am trying Carnival this year.

 

Just asking: is the ice cream at "Cherry on Top" different/better than the ice cream from the buffet? Sundaes on NCL are made from the same ice cream and toppings available for free. Yeah, the bowl and prep isn't the same, but is it really worth the charge?

[BlerkOne]

When looking for nickel and diming, extra cost restaurants, and inedible MDR food, NCL is my go to cruise line! Carnival isn't close.

[jimbo5544]

This is exactly why we are seeing the larger ships with more choices. No ship can be everything to everyone. But a larger ship can be more to more people. Instead of forcing everyone to buy everything, which would never fill the ship, you get to choose! Also known as nickle and diming.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you're really reaching here. Ice doesn't make or break a vacation for me. Let alone that it was always stocked in my room by my room steward.

 

 

 

I do agree with you that Carnival's drink system needs an overhaul. I seem to be one of the few here that is against Cheers in most cases. $120 a day, every day, for a couple, is simply too much for most. Again, I would like more choices. What if there was an option for say, half price that had different limits?

 

 

 

NCL's program is a breath of fresh air, but it is not perfect, and definitely not free.

 

 

 

There is no free lunch. How is they give you something for nothing? Answer is they don't. The base fare is increased, the over abundance of for pay options on a ship. The consumer is paying for it, they are just putting lipstick on the pig.

 

 

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[jimbo5544]

Charging extra for a scarce resource like specialty dining is fair. You can't open it to everyone for free since it will be overcrowded. The charge limits the demand. That's fair. The problem is that the modern ships are getting divided into many different small areas to provide more variety. This is not necessarily a good thing since this creates even more shortages that require upcharges. Carnival still has a lot of stuff included in the fare. NCL has been actively replacing areas of the ship that used to be free with upcharge versions that are not worth it. They're the kings of nickel and diming so much so that I've jumped ship from them and am trying Carnival this year.

 

?

 

I owe you a drink when we are on Horizon. Let's meet at the the M&G

 

 

 

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[StolidCruiser]

So, no problem with fees for dining in specialty restaurants here. However, if Carnival loses quality of the MDR food, we would no longer have much value sailing with them, and would look elsewhere for our next cruise.

 

What other cruise line would you look to should you find Carnival’s MDR less than expected?

[jimbo5544]

Where is my friend who thinks Carnival is the nickel and dime leader????

 

 

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[Retired_to_Cruise]

Yep, because cruise lines get cheap labor, for one thing, and do not have to comply with all the regulations. Of course, AI land resorts in other countries have cheap labor too, but you have to add in a plane ticket. Also, I think the AI resorts are more likely to leave you alone and let you relax, while cruise lines CONSTANTLY pester you the entire vacation to spend more money.

 

So, exactly what regulations do they not have to comply with?

[joepeka]

Where is my friend who thinks Carnival is the nickel and dime leader????

 

 

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Not me Jimbo!! I've never said that (nickel and dime leader) I don't think....... :D

[Lottacruises]

I love it when people say "I wouldn't mind paying more if they did ______" . For everyone that wouldn't mind there will be plenty that would. Please, spend your own money, not mine.

[jimbo5544]

Not me Jimbo!! I've never said that (nickel and dime leader) I don't think....... :D

 

 

 

Actually not you, I was using the “friend” term loosely. Someone who enjoys light hearted banter wit me.

 

 

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[jimbo5544]

Cutbacks is the most overused term here. The thread is really two topics, cutbacks and nickel and diming. Literally almost any change is interpreted by some here as a cutback. Are there cutbacks? Sure there are, Carnival has them as well as the other major players. More now then ever before. Why? Another easy lob, the reason is they are building ships that cost around a billion dollars each (some a little less and some a little more). They are stock companies and need to perform for their stockholders. That said, cruise prices are fairly in line with where they were years ago. So where do they make up that money..... (we have come onto the second portion of the thread) extra fees. keep the clients on the ship or keep them at the cruise lines private ports. They all do it.....but...... some do it much better than others.

 

 

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[Doggielover68]

To be perfectly honest, I prefer the "add-on" approach. We simply pick and choose what we wish to spend our money on. If we don't want it, we don't have to pay for it! Places that include items that Carnival views as an add-on, typically end up charging everyone for it in the form of higher fares.

 

 

 

This. On our most recent cruise, our sail and sign card had a final total of just over $2 bucks. (We prepaid gratuities). I'd much rather pay the base price and add things along the way.

 

 

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[Doggielover68]

I have, sure, but I don't consider that being pestered to spend money. I consider that advertising something that's available. It's not like they're hard-selling me.

 

 

 

Exactly. Also, Bingo is a fun activity that many people enjoy. It is never a free activity on land or at sea.

 

 

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[Doggielover68]

Cruises are in the business to make more money, sure they are going to try to upsell you if they can. You don't know if you don't try. I don't think there really is a more beautiful, less expensive way to see the Carribbean.

 

 

 

You are right about that. I can't even book a trip to Disney for less than a cruise these days. I've looked at land based trips as well and as a non drinker, AI resorts are just way too expensive for me. I look at it this way. On a typical 7 day cruise, I get 4 days at an island. I also get all of my meals included, transportation, and accommodations. Everything else is just a bonus. The food isn't necessarily fantastic, but I don't care. I don't have to drive anywhere to get it, I don't have to cook it, and I don't have to clean up afterwards.

 

 

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[Thorncroft]

While not a cutback, the biggest travesty being foisted on cruisers is the auto tips. Back in the days of the envelopes, you tipped the usual service staff that you directly interacted with during the cruise. With the advent of the auto tips they keep adding more and more of the staff into the tip pool while tips keep inching up every year, shifting the burden of payroll onto the passenger and away from the cruiseline.

[Cushing985]

I guess I'm lucky to have just a few demands for a great cruise. A large and clean cabin serviced twice a day, a clean ship, interesting ports, good food and a great view of the ocean. I don't need anyone to hand me a good time, I couldn't care less about attending a "Broadway" show onboard. I'm happy with the small bands they have onboard. All the announcements they have on the PA system (and not, BTW, piped into the cabin except for emergencies) are nothing but white noise easily ignored. Ice? I don't need it but if I did I would leave a note for the cabin steward. If you have a problem saying "no" to someone trying to sell you something then the problem lies with you...not the cruise line. People complain all the time about the lack of tablecloths in the MDR on non-elegant nights. Looking at the way people dress for dinner they are, in fact, asking for an informal dining experience. Tablecloths should be reserved for the more formal dinners (cruise elegant).

[Moviela]

While not a cutback, the biggest travesty being foisted on cruisers is the auto tips. Back in the days of the envelopes, you tipped the usual service staff that you directly interacted with during the cruise. With the advent of the auto tips they keep adding more and more of the staff into the tip pool while tips keep inching up every year, shifting the burden of payroll onto the passenger and away from the cruiseline.

 

I have a different view. People are the same everywhere, and if the employer paid 100% of their compensation service providers will slack off. Tips exist for these positions to encourage better service. In the distant past tipping was considered an obligation honorable people paid to service workers. Few people stiffed the bar tender.

To encourage better performance by unseen staff they are now included in the tip pool. Auto tips are a way to assure people who do not know how much to tip what is a reasonable amount.

 

Passengers that are offended by a lack of service are free to reduce or even eliminate auto tips, but most right thinking people would not take money from the thin pockets of people who serve them.

[jimbo5544]

I guess I'm lucky to have just a few demands for a great cruise. A large and clean cabin serviced twice a day, a clean ship, interesting ports, good food and a great view of the ocean. I don't need anyone to hand me a good time, I couldn't care less about attending a "Broadway" show onboard. I'm happy with the small bands they have onboard. All the announcements they have on the PA system (and not, BTW, piped into the cabin except for emergencies) are nothing but white noise easily ignored. Ice? I don't need it but if I did I would leave a note for the cabin steward. If you have a problem saying "no" to someone trying to sell you something then the problem lies with you...not the cruise line. People complain all the time about the lack of tablecloths in the MDR on non-elegant nights. Looking at the way people dress for dinner they are, in fact, asking for an informal dining experience. Tablecloths should be reserved for the more formal dinners (cruise elegant).

 

 

 

Despite what some say here, your views are right on in terms of what the MAJORITY of cruisers really want from a cruise. The do not want a floating amusement park, charging for everything on the ship, including $4 for a tiny bag of popcorn to watch an outside movie, or paying a la carte prices for everything you eat in a steakhouse or a "seating" charge for a greasy burger. I can go on.....

 

 

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[BlazinSunsets]

 

• Alcohol - biggest money pit ever. NCL is going to eat Carnival's lunch with this one. Of course, not everyone is a big drinker ... the Red Frog self pour kiosks are a step in the right direction, but why is there not a "Beer-only package?" I guarantee you is is not because of "the market"... market would love it but Carnival would rather sell you liquor at $60 a day than beer for less. Why? Because they can make more money... and if people willingly buy the only package, why would they offer a less expensive one? Solution - don't buy the package.
  

 

At like 8-9 beers you break even on cheers if you're not drinking that then I wouldn't get it. I don't know what you want carnival to do on that one. If they offered a beer package they 'might' bring down the price $10 a day but otherwise they're gonna lose money on it. They're never gonna offer a cheap package where they lose money just so you can drink your beer. If you don't drink 8+ then dont buy the package so if you want to drink 5 beers, just buy 5 beers.

[salty dingo]

At like 8-9 beers you break even on cheers if you're not drinking that then I wouldn't get it. I don't know what you want carnival to do on that one. If they offered a beer package they 'might' bring down the price $10 a day but otherwise they're gonna lose money on it. They're never gonna offer a cheap package where they lose money just so you can drink your beer. If you don't drink 8+ then dont buy the package so if you want to drink 5 beers, just buy 5 beers.

The self pour kiosks are dispensing beer at $4 - $5 per glass, from what I have read here. You would need to drink a lot more than 8 - 9 beers to break even.

 

I would say this is an area that is not a cutback, but rather a way for Carnival to make more money by providing something that you think is a good value but instead ensures you spend a maximum amount on alcohol.

 

The reason there is no beer package is that it would cannibalize the revenue from Cheers. The next step is to keep raising a la carte prices so much that it becomes more and more economical to buy the Cheers package.

 

I'm not falling for it. It's enough to drive a guy to quit drinking!

[salty dingo]

Carnival still has a lot of stuff included in the fare. NCL has been actively replacing areas of the ship that used to be free with upcharge versions that are not worth it. They're the kings of nickel and diming so much so that I've jumped ship from them and am trying Carnival this year.

Personally, I just want my cruise to provide me access to sun, sea, and transport me to the ports I want to visit. I don't care for the larger ships which have more to do, because I don't need any more to do than lounge around on deck and wait for the next meal. That's enough for me.

 

I think the ships nowadays are catering to a set of passengers who can't sit still and who get bored easily. So they have to distract them with activities, and they have figured out passengers are willing to pay for the activities they want to do. How can you predict this ahead of time? Seems like a lot of spur-of-the-moment purchases go on some ships. Some folks like to go shopping and think spending money is fun. I shop when I need to replace something that has broken, and don't enjoy parting with the money unless I know it's the best value available.

 

For me, the smaller ships are the best. MDR food is still good enough. Sun still shines and the ship still goes to ports. Replace that MDR with buffet only, add more sea days, and get rid of the smaller ships, and I'm done. There are plenty of other cruise lines out there.

[BlazinSunsets]

The self pour kiosks are dispensing beer at $4 - $5 per glass, from what I have read here. You would need to drink a lot more than 8 - 9 beers to break even.

 

I would say this is an area that is not a cutback, but rather a way for Carnival to make more money by providing something that you think is a good value but instead ensures you spend a maximum amount on alcohol.

 

The reason there is no beer package is that it would cannibalize the revenue from Cheers. The next step is to keep raising a la carte prices so much that it becomes more and more economical to buy the Cheers package.

 

I'm not falling for it. It's enough to drive a guy to quit drinking!

 

Yea I haven't experienced the self serve ones yet so I didn't know their prices. You kinda just have to know that alcohol is where a cruise makes their money. They don't make it off the people that don't drink. So they can't give people a deal on alcohol or they'll start to lose money.

[Sizzlechest]

Personally, I just want my cruise to provide me access to sun, sea, and transport me to the ports I want to visit. I don't care for the larger ships which have more to do, because I don't need any more to do than lounge around on deck and wait for the next meal. That's enough for me.

 

I think the ships nowadays are catering to a set of passengers who can't sit still and who get bored easily. So they have to distract them with activities, and they have figured out passengers are willing to pay for the activities they want to do. How can you predict this ahead of time? Seems like a lot of spur-of-the-moment purchases go on some ships. Some folks like to go shopping and think spending money is fun. I shop when I need to replace something that has broken, and don't enjoy parting with the money unless I know it's the best value available.

 

For me, the smaller ships are the best. MDR food is still good enough. Sun still shines and the ship still goes to ports. Replace that MDR with buffet only, add more sea days, and get rid of the smaller ships, and I'm done. There are plenty of other cruise lines out there.

 

I mostly agree with this. The NCL Breakaway is a nice ship, but the pool and theater are too small. There's no lounge, so most of the events occur in the Atrium, which is too small. The NCL Gem was what I used to call in the "Goldilocks" zone of ship/passenger size ratio. (Sorry for the NCL-based comparisons. It's what I know.)

 

The Vista class ships, based on the reviews, sound a lot like the Breakaway/Escape class ships. (Pool and theater are too small, etc.) The ONLY reason I booked a Horizon cruise was because I got a Havana Cabana room. In NCL terms, that's like getting access to the Haven pool and Vibe (sort of) included. Unfortunately, new ships aren't being designed to be "roomy" anymore. It takes planning to avoid crowds.

[crewsweeper]

I have seen cutbacks and what could be considered nickel and diming by Carnival, but IMO nothing like what happens on Royal Caribbean or for what I've heard happens on NCL.

 

However, the true nickel-dimers and cutbackers are the airlines. Fees for luggage (by piece and by extra weight). fees for priority boarding, fees to get more comfortable seats, fees to watch movies or get headphones that might work, fees for beverage/food service (what if cruise lines offered only a bag of processed snacks and water for daily food), etc. Your "cheap" RT fare can double in a hurry.

[CatsinShow]

My only issue (and this isn't simply on Carnival which I have never sailed) with the nickle and diming is that certain fitness classes that seem interesting to me aren't included. This happened when I went on NCL last summer. I remember years ago they were included. I also don't like in the Fun Times that they will just put a $ by a class or something without stating the actual price. Again on NCL I would ask the front desk about what the exact fees are and they wouldn't know. I was just told to show up and then inquire which annoyed me. This was a negative to me. There's things I would be somewhat interested in trying if included, but I'm not interested enough if I have to pay even a small amount. Sort of like crappy entertainment. There might be a show on a cruise I will see since it's included if I were somewhat interested, but if there were a fee, I would pass.