Bad Behavior by Carnival result in Lawsuit

[winddawn]

I can't believe some people think the cruise lines can't be sued. Try Googling cruise ship attorneys.

[robertlanajean]

I would imagine that a 90-minute interrogation wouldn't be too much fun, regardless of the outcome. I do think the situation could have been handled better - perhaps confine both guests to their cabins while they took 10 minutes to watch the video to check for physical features -- the went with the flow and it was a mistake.

From the outside looking in, it's easy to say "get over it" or "I want a million bucks"... my thinking is that it would have ruined my entire vacation. How could you let go of that and enjoy your vacation? What happens if you run into the guy in the hall -- does he apologize or give you a nasty look because he's still upset over the situation? And it never indicated if the accused was physically injured in the altercation.

 

Think about how much you spend on a cruise, the hype, the flights (if applicable) etc.. and whether or not HE has the luxury of doing these regularly? This guy could have saved 5 years for HIS trip of a lifetime and had it ruined.

 

A dinner? No. A million bucks? No. Hundred grand? No. Reimburse all expenses related to this trip and give him a free cruise in the future as compensation. Maybe overkill, but a heck of a goodwill gesture that would have kept this situation out of the news.

[jimbo5544]

Of course Carnival can be sued and they should be happy to pay this man and it should cost them much more to train their employees. The behavior was egregious from the unreasonable questioning asking for a confession, to the "all Asians look alike" to the specialty dinner offer. Seriously? Hard to believe they even kept his cruise fare. This is disgusting. Nobody should make any excuses for their behavior. Maybe you'll never hear about this one again because they will give him the money if he promises never to discuss this in public.

 

 

 

Your expertise on your assumptions is based on what exactly? Statements like “happy to pay” sound foreign to me. Perhaps you can enlighten us mere mortals....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[gtalum]

Why would Carnival get sued? It was a mistake, sucked for him being falsely accused, that wasn't their fault, they were told by another passenger that he did something. Yes, they should have checked video surveillance before the interrogation, shame on them, but they offered him a meal in a specialty restaurant to make up for it. I would have personally pushed for something more, maybe an excursion or OBC, but they didn't ignore it.

 

Wrongful detainment is serious. Carnival got off easy.

[torcruise]

I work for a law enforcement agency. Unfortunately, people do accuse the wrong person and officers or detectives have to investigate. As you can imagine, guilty people also claim to be innocent. It's not like you go to someone who's been accused, say "did you do it" the person assures you they are innocent and you say, "oh, sorry - must have the wrong guy." You have to question the person accused. Do some officers come off as jerks - yes, they do, but when an accusation is made, we have to investigate.

 

There have been numerous instances of a females purposely giving a false statement to get back at an ex or to explain why she was out all night. We do file charges against those women for filing a false police report, but if someone makes a mistake and picks out the wrong guy, it's not actionable.

 

If law enforcement agencies were sued every time they question an innocent suspect, we'd all be out of business.

 

so you don't think an investigator has an obligation to compare the video to the accused before they detain and interrogated them for an 90min? I find it hard to believe that people can be arrested and interrogated off a claim when it was all on video. Someone didn't do their job properly

[Keys2Heaven]

and Carnival was being let off easy by this plaintiff. They should be happy they weren't sued for $millions. This guy needs a better lawyer and Carnival needs to provide some HR training to ship management and employees.

 

I'm not offended by this. Frivolous lawsuit.

[sc4125]

so you don't think an investigator has an obligation to compare the video to the accused before they detain and interrogated them for an 90min? I find it hard to believe that people can be arrested and interrogated off a claim when it was all on video. Someone didn't do their job properly

 

 

I didn't say anything about an arrest. I was simply saying that when someone makes an accusation, law enforcement would be negligent if they didn't question the person accused.

 

Suppose it was the right suspect, and while security waited to compare videos, the suspect goes after the original victim or victimizes someone else? I'm not sure what it would entail to determine which videos needed to be viewed or how much time this would take. However, I can say that if you were the family member of the victim, and you thought this guy did something, I don't think you would be okay with waiting for concrete evidence before questioning a suspect.

 

Making an arrest is a different story. Again, I don't know what CCL security protocol is, and perhaps they violated that protocol. Law enforcement agencies are suppose to be exempt from civil liability if the officer is acting in good faith. I don't know every detail of what led to this "interrogation" but to automatically assume that CCL should be sued may be inaccurate until all facts are in.

[torcruise]

I didn't say anything about an arrest. I was simply saying that when someone makes an accusation, law enforcement would be negligent if they didn't question the person accused.

 

Suppose it was the right suspect, and while security waited to compare videos, the suspect goes after the original victim or victimizes someone else? I'm not sure what it would entail to determine which videos needed to be viewed or how much time this would take. However, I can say that if you were the family member of the victim, and you thought this guy did something, I don't think you would be okay with waiting for concrete evidence before questioning a suspect.

 

yeah but was he questioned or interrogated for 90min? to me that is to different things, Carnival staff didn't try to ascertain if he was the actual perpetrator of the crime, that is something I would expect a law enforcement officer to do first

[SPKEMO]

His personal information was exposed and that is a direct correlation to his safety as a passenger. That’s the lawsuit.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Aquahound]

Sheesh, that video was mind-numbing. That guy takes way too long to get to a point.

 

But that aside, I can't give Carnival (well, Spirit's security team to be exact) any benefit of the doubt on this one. They botched this investigation in more ways than 1 and caused an innocent man to be unjustly assaulted by another passenger and then interrogated for 90 minutes.

 

I totally support Mr. Sun on this one.

[calbred01]

I am assuming that security were not Americans? Since I was not there I would not know BUT it is under a foreign flag so I have really have no insight as to security training. I do think that the passenger that barged in and the accused cabin should be prosecuted BUT that is up to the the person being assaulted and NOT Carnival. Does anyone know if the accuser apologized? I did not see anything in the video about that. And, looking at the pictures, the accused is also a father so maybe he was able to forgive? I agree that more training should be done BUT who says that Carnival is not doing that and not announcing it to the entire world?

[emdia43]

Sheesh, that video was mind-numbing. That guy takes way too long to get to a point.

 

But that aside, I can't give Carnival (well, Spirit's security team to be exact) any benefit of the doubt on this one. They botched this investigation in more ways than 1 and caused an innocent man to be unjustly assaulted by another passenger and then interrogated for 90 minutes.

 

I totally support Mr. Sun on this one.

 

The mind boggles as to what would have happened had he not had tattoos...

Why did it take them 90 minutes before comparing video of the perp to the person in front of them?

I bet Carnival has already written a check. At least I hope so.

[Cafedumonde]

clickbait

[SPKEMO]

clickbait

 

 

 

How so? The title of the post directly corresponds to the video in the post.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[thinfool]

For those wanting to sue for reasons other than injury or death, this is the contract that all passengers agree to before sailing on Carnival...other lines have similar clauses....

 

(d)Any and all disputes, claims, or controversies whatsoever, other than for personal injury, illness or death of a Guest, whether brought in personam or in rem or based on contract, tort, statutory, constitutional or other legal rights, including but not limited to alleged violation of civil rights, discrimination, consumer or privacy laws, or for any losses, damages or expenses, relating to or in any way arising out of or connected with this Contract or Guest’s cruise, no matter how described, pleaded or styled, between the Guest and Carnival, with the sole exception of claims brought and litigated in small claims court, shall be referred to and resolved exclusively by binding arbitration pursuant to the United Nations Convention on the Recognition and Enforcement of Foreign Arbitral Awards (New York 1958), 21 U.S.T. 2517, 330 U.N.T.S. 3, 1970 U.S.T. LEXIS 115, 9 U.S.C. §§ 202-208 (“the Convention”) and the Federal Arbitration Act, 9 U.S.C. §§ 1, et seq., (“FAA”) solely in Miami-Dade County, Florida, U.S.A. to the exclusion of any other forum.

[chengkp75]

Wrongful detainment is serious. Carnival got off easy.

 

Sheesh, that video was mind-numbing. That guy takes way too long to get to a point.

 

But that aside, I can't give Carnival (well, Spirit's security team to be exact) any benefit of the doubt on this one. They botched this investigation in more ways than 1 and caused an innocent man to be unjustly assaulted by another passenger and then interrogated for 90 minutes.

 

I totally support Mr. Sun on this one.

 

Paul, maybe you can chime in on this one.

 

"Wrongful detainment" as far as I understand it, in the US, is defined as when someone commits an "act beyond or outside of the scope of their authority." A ship's Captain is given, by international law, "overriding authority" to conduct whatever he needs to do protect the safety of the ship, crew, cargo (passengers) and the environment. This overriding authority extends to those of the Captain's subordinates who are acting under his orders. Therefore, the security staff were acting under the Captain's overriding authority, and were "within the scope of their authority", so no "wrongful detainment". Also, I am not sure this is one of the crimes against US citizens that the US has claimed extraterritorial jurisdiction over, nor am I aware whether this happened in another country's territorial waters, which would nullify the US's extraterritorial claim.

And everyone is talking about the person's rights as if this was in the US. It wasn't. His familiar rights to anything during an investigation or interrogation are based on the laws of the flag state, not the US, and the Captain has that "overriding authority" to apply those laws of the flag state as he wishes.

I will say that while it was unfortunate that the person's cabin number was revealed, I don't know of any law that says hotels, for instance, can't give out a person's room number. Some have policies against doing this, but I'm not aware of any legal restriction. And, again, this ship is not US territory, so the laws of hotel confidentiality would be those of the flag state, not the US. The person talking on the video says that revealing the cabin number "violates all of Carnival's policies" regarding confidentiality, but I'm not aware that he is conversant with Carnival's policies, I think he is extrapolating from US experience.

I will agree with you, Paul, on two points. The video was painful, and the ship's staff screwed this pooch by the numbers.

However, I will also say that the suit will probably be thrown out on the grounds of the binding arbitration clause in the ticket contract, so it will go to a Miami arbitrator. Will he get $100k? Who knows, most likely a lot less. IMHO. He does deserve something more than a complimentary dinner, though.

[spleenstomper]

Exactly, it’s not wrongful detainment.

[Aquahound]

It definitely was not wrongful detainment. Carnival was acting upon a reasonable suspicion based on an identification given by the victim's father. In that regard, they were correct in their response. In comparison, police detain and question people all the time who at that moment, they do not know are innocent. In this case, although Carnival should have done a better job identifying a subject with the data they had available (video), the truth is, they were still acting in accordance with their authority.

 

That said, as the carrier, Carnival is still responsible for the safety of all passengers, regardless of whether or not they are suspected of a crime. It can be argued that Carnival disregarded that responsibility when they exposed the room number of who they thought was a suspect to a person who they should have known would have an emotional, perhaps irrational, response. It does seem to be fact that Carnival's exposure of that room number led to Mr. Sun being assaulted in his cabin.....not to mention how confused and terrified he probably was since he had no knowledge of this case.

[SPKEMO]

For those wanting to sue for reasons other than injury or death, this is the contract that all passengers agree to before sailing on Carnival...other lines have similar clauses....

 

(d)Any and all disputes, claims, or controversies whatsoever, other than for personal injury, illness or death of a Guest, whether brought in personam or in rem or based on contract, tort, statutory, constitutional or other legal rights, including but not limited to alleged violation of civil rights, discrimination, consumer or privacy laws, or for any losses, damages or expenses, relating to or in any way arising out of or connected with this Contract or Guest’s cruise, no matter how described, pleaded or styled, between the Guest and Carnival, with the sole exception of claims brought and litigated in small claims court, shall be referred to and resolved exclusively by binding arbitration pursuant to the United Nations Convention on the Recognition and Enforcement of Foreign Arbitral Awards (New York 1958), 21 U.S.T. 2517, 330 U.N.T.S. 3, 1970 U.S.T. LEXIS 115, 9 U.S.C. §§ 202-208 (“the Convention”) and the Federal Arbitration Act, 9 U.S.C. §§ 1, et seq., (“FAA”) solely in Miami-Dade County, Florida, U.S.A. to the exclusion of any other forum.

 

 

 

So you file a lawsuit, the judge sends it to arbitration and it’s gets settled. Carnival is still going write a check.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[chengkp75]

It definitely was not wrongful detainment. Carnival was acting upon a reasonable suspicion based on an identification given by the victim's father. In that regard, they were correct in their response. In comparison, police detain and question people all the time who at that moment, they do not know are innocent. In this case, although Carnival should have done a better job identifying a subject with the data they had available (video), the truth is, they were still acting in accordance with their authority.

 

That said, as the carrier, Carnival is still responsible for the safety of all passengers, regardless of whether or not they are suspected of a crime. It can be argued that Carnival disregarded that responsibility when they exposed the room number of who they thought was a suspect to a person who they should have known would have an emotional, perhaps irrational, response. It does seem to be fact that Carnival's exposure of that room number led to Mr. Sun being assaulted in his cabin.....not to mention how confused and terrified he probably was since he had no knowledge of this case.

 

Good point about letting the cabin number to an emotional person. Interesting that the father got to Mr. Sun's cabin before security. Another screw up by security, as they should have sent someone to that cabin even before the child's mother left the security office.

[jimbo5544]

So you file a lawsuit, the judge sends it to arbitration and it’s gets settled. Carnival is still going write a check.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

 

 

And all this time I thought judges and jury’s settled these things. Huh go figure.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[PuddinMan]

One nuance you are missing is that this cruise is operated by Carnival Australia and they have no such arbitration clause.

 

31. CHOICE OF LAW & JURISDICTION

This contract is governed by the laws in force in New South Wales. You agree that any action you bring against us will be brought in New South Wales, Australia.

If you have a claim against us, you agree only to bring action against us and not any of our related bodies corporate as defined in the Corporations Act 2001(Cth).

 

 

 

So, yes, he can sue as long as he does it in NSW.

 

 

I think the ship screwed up from the get-go. Any pictures should not have had cabin numbers visible. Security should have been at the cabin before the victim's father. Security should have detained the victim's father for assault. Medical care should have been provided. Mr. Sun should have received more than just a meal.

 

 

However, we only know the bare details of the story. I'd love to see the court filings to see Carnival's actual position.

[steadyone]

Not that this makes any difference but the person who posted the video on YouTube is from Canada not the US.

[smithop]

They need to use the Amazon facial recognition software. Security showed her head shots when they had full body shots in the video presumably. Handled very poorly by the security team. I think the lawsuit has merit.

 

https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-is-selling-facial-recognition-technology-to-law-enforcement/

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Computer Nerd]

Wrongful detainment is serious. Carnival got off easy.

 

An interrogation with cause is not wrongful detainment. How else do you determine if the alligation is correct or not.

 

Granted, there was absolutely no need for the interrogation to last 90 min. They should have reviewed the footage first, then asked the gentleman tho show his arms (looking for markings such as tattoos and such). Could have been done in 5 min, not 90. But it still as to be done either way.