Ship to Replace Anthem in Bayonne

[piescruises]

Just now, reallyitsmema said:

 

It is not just constructing a new terminal!  The ship doesn't just sail in and toss out a line.  There needs to be an infrastructure to support the ship, it does not exist in Stamford and never will.

The harbor deepened and a terminal built and a pier completed. for the cost to deepen for the size of ship it might be worth it because the ships are the biggest in the world.

[dswallow]

2 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Total height from keel is 236'.  Water draft of 33.8' means an air draft (above the waterline) of 203'.  That leaves 12' of clearance under the V-N bridge.

 

Oasis has an air draft of 236'.  That all above the water line.

 

Ahh, hadn't noticed measuring differences in the spec.

[piescruises]

1 minute ago, piescruises said:

The harbor deepened and a terminal built and a pier completed. for the cost to deepen for the size of ship it might be worth it because the ships are the biggest in the world.

This is only if royal wants to bring an oasis-class ship to the new york market, otherwise extensive retracting technologies would be needed to fit into ny or simply replace smokestacks to be shorter. if the smokes stacks  lowered too much it might make the air quality on the basketball court,mini golf and flowriders unsafe

[reallyitsmema]

2 minutes ago, piescruises said:

The harbor deepened and a terminal built and a pier completed. for the cost to deepen for the size of ship it might be worth it because the ships are the biggest in the world.

 

That is not even the half of it.

[piescruises]

1 minute ago, reallyitsmema said:

 

That is not even the half of it.

Then, I guess you have to community hearings and get government funding and sign contract and check if environmentally safe.

[twangster]

1 minute ago, piescruises said:

Then, I guess you have to community hearings and get government funding and sign contract and check if environmentally safe.

 

Plus most sea ports are mixed use.  Cargo, container, tanker, cruise.  The overall port is operated at a profit but costs shared across all ships that use it. 

 

If you are building something exclusive to the cruise industry 100% of the costs will be paid by the cruise industry.  Expect very high port fees for a single use facility.

[piescruises]

1 minute ago, twangster said:

 

Plus most sea ports are mixed use.  Cargo, container, tanker, cruise.  The overall port is operated at a profit but costs shared across all ships that use it. 

 

If you are building something exclusive to the cruise industry 100% of the costs will be paid by the cruise industry.  Expect very high port fees for a single use facility.

they could also use for long island sound ferries as an additional use

[twangster]

2 minutes ago, piescruises said:

they could also use for long island sound ferries as an additional use

 

Do you think the ferry service is going to be okay paying substantially higher facility fees to operate from a brand new large deep water port that it doesn't need?  That means ferry passengers get to pay higher fees as well.

 

Most sea ports existed long before cruising was popular or existed.  Accommodating a cruise ship in an existing port facility is relatively easy and inexpensive.  

 

Cargo/Container/Tanker ships operate around the clock, seven days a week.  They contribute the greatest to the financial viability of a port.  Cruise ships are there for less than a day and then nothing until they return.  

 

There's a reason why cruise ships operate from the industrial seaports they do.  It would cost way too much to build a facility like an entire deep water port just for cruise ships.  

[piescruises]

11 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Do you think the ferry service is going to be okay paying substantially higher facility fees to operate from a brand new large deep water port that it doesn't need?  That means ferry passengers get to pay higher fees as well.

 

Most sea ports existed long before cruising was popular or existed.  Accommodating a cruise ship in an existing port facility is relatively easy and inexpensive.  

 

Cargo/Container/Tanker ships operate around the clock, seven days a week.  They contribute the greatest to the financial viability of a port.  Cruise ships are there for less than a day and then nothing until they return.  

 

There's a reason why cruise ships operate from the industrial seaports they do.  It would cost way too much to build a facility like an entire deep water port just for cruise ships.  

how about when deepening cococay?

[twangster]

11 minutes ago, piescruises said:

how about when deepening cococay?

 

Exactly.  Look how many decades that took to get done.  Largely done so that Oasis class could have another destination to spice up the itineraries.  Close to all those FL home ports it also satisfies the PVSA.  

 

Could you imagine the hurdles trying to do that project in US waters?  In the Bahamas they just needed to grease the money hungry Bahamian gov't.  The same project in the US likely would never pass all the lawsuits and challenges and if it did would cost 50 times as much.  It would never happen.  

Edited November 19, 2018 by twangster

[piescruises]

2 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Exactly.  Look how many decades that took to get done.  Largely done so that Oasis class could have another destination to spice up the itineraries.  Close to all those FL home ports it also satisfies the PVSA.  

 

Could you imagine the hurdles trying to do that project in US waters?  In the Bahamas they just needed to grease the money hungry Bahamian gov't.  The same project in the US likely would never pass all the lawsuits and challenges and if it did would cost 50 times as much.  It would never happen.  

well I guess that’s all the trouble for option to put in stamford. how about the other option get special approval to lower smoke stacks and remodifying ship

[Yorkvillain]

Ok, we can stop talking about Stamford. That’s not happening in this lifetime or the next. 

[piescruises]

9 minutes ago, piescruises said:

well I guess that’s all the trouble for option to put in stamford. how about the other option get special approval to lower smoke stacks and remodifying ship

There’s money hungry connecticut.

[twangster]

Just now, piescruises said:

well I guess that’s all the trouble for option to put in stamford. how about the other option get special approval to lower smoke stacks and remodifying ship

 

Maybe they will when Oasis goes into dry dock.  It comes down to a business equation.  Will spending $10-$30M to modify the ship make business sense?  Will the ship generate revenue it would otherwise not generate by moving it to the NYC area and recover that investment?  Modify a ship for just one port?   That's a tall order.

 

Putting an Oasis class into Galveston makes sense as long as the cost for the port expansion satisfies the same test.  

 

Putting QU#5 into Bayonne doesn't require incremental expense and achieves a similar end result.  Imagine the pent up demand if they just had Adventure in Bayonne for a year then brought QU5 there?  Ship would sell out for months well before it arrived.

 

The biggest problem with the NYC area is geography.  All those sea days in both directions to get anywhere interesting.  I've done it, on a B2B no less. A new ship doesn't fix  the geography problem.

[HBE4]

7 minutes ago, piescruises said:

well I guess that’s all the trouble for option to put in stamford. how about the other option get special approval to lower smoke stacks and remodifying ship

 

I can't see Royal spending any money to bring the Oasis-class to NY, especially since it would be for seasonal use.

 

They've already spent plenty for the new Port of Miami terminal and are close to adding a new terminal Galveston for Oasis-class.  That would be 4 North American ports (including FLL and PCO) for 4 Oasis-class ships.  No need for a 5th part time port.

[piescruises]

8 minutes ago, Yorkvillain said:

Ok, we can stop talking about Stamford. That’s not happening in this lifetime or the next. 

I brought up oasis-class was brought up and oasis-class can’t really fit under the bridge

[rothschilda]

33 minutes ago, Yorkvillain said:

Ok, we can stop talking about Stamford. That’s not happening in this lifetime or the next. 

 

Agreed (about stop talking about Stamford. It doesn’t matter to me and is not relevant to my initial post! What they choose to do in CT is of no interest to me. I asked about Bayonne and what was prospectively coming for that terminal. Lets stop talking about other ports on this thread. Thank you!

[jptoz]

The new york area market is the largest in the U.S. If Royal can put an Oasis Class there they will.  Will it work in the winter, no way. But May- October why not. I do believe  Cape Liberty will  get  a new Quantum or Anthem back. And   a icon class after that. 

[piescruises]

3 minutes ago, jptoz said:

The new york area market is the largest in the U.S. If Royal can put an Oasis Class there they will.  Will it work in the winter, no way. But May- October why not. I do believe  Cape Liberty will  get  a new Quantum or Anthem back. And   a icon class after that. 

We’ve already gone over this it just involves complicated adjustments ones of 2 ways: modify ship or build a whole new port.

[piescruises]

13 minutes ago, rothschilda said:

 

Agreed (about stop talking about Stamford. It doesn’t matter to me and is not relevant to my initial post! What they choose to do in CT is of no interest to me. I asked about Bayonne and what was prospectively coming for that terminal. Lets stop talking about other ports on this thread. Thank you!

I’m sorry I thought it meant the ny area in general and they were talking about bringing the oasis under a bridge that doesn’t have enough room to clear it safely.

[jptoz]

2 minutes ago, piescruises said:

We’ve already gone over this it just involves complicated adjustments ones of 2 ways: modify ship or build a whole new port.

I would guess modifying a ship would be cheaper and easier.  

[piescruises]

Just now, jptoz said:

I would guess modifying a ship would be cheaper and easier.  

Maybe not because it would have to get a lot more approvals for safety of the ship and who knows if the ship could clear the bridge at high tide so not much easier maybe cheaper. Maybe harder

[HBE4]

20 minutes ago, jptoz said:

I would guess modifying a ship would be cheaper and easier.  

 

Agreed.

 

Heck, raising the V-N bridge would be easier and cheaper then building a brand-new deep sea port for cruising only, where non exist today.😉

 

Back on topic, since Anthem is going to be away for summer 2020 only, perhaps Liberty will return to Bayonne for the summer?   Especially if there is an Oasis-class ship there Galveston in 2020.

Edited November 19, 2018 by HBE4

[jonesy4life9]

Perhaps Oasis splits time between Bayonne and Galveston?  Anthem is already set to come back to Bayonne in November 2020.  So Bayonne would have a set rotation between Oasis (summer) and Anthem (winter).  I’m betting Royal gets it done even if some additional dredging is required or smoke stack modification during its dry dock.

[twangster]

Perhaps they aren't going to replace Anthem in 2020.   Only time will tell.