Mention Bermuda Triangle?

[ldubs]

I think this "descent" conversation needs to be lost in the triangle.  Just sayin.  

[navybankerteacher]

23 minutes ago, ldubs said:

I think this "descent" conversation needs to be lost in the triangle.  Just sayin.  

Perhaps;  but considering proper use of our language at least has some value —- while dwelling on superstitious supermarket tabloid trash about the dreaded Bermuda Triangle is an utter waste of time.

[SRF]

6 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Not so.  “Descent” is defined as “the action of moving downward, dropping or falling”.

 

Hopefully the pilot of you plane has planned a CONTROLLED descent, but when a plane falls out of the sky, for any reason, it is a descent. I would not want to fly in a plane whose pilot did not understand the meaning of “descent”.

 

Do you fly?

 

Descent is a specific phase of flight.

 

Like many fields, there is a specialized language for aviation.

 

 

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, SRF said:

 

Do you fly?

 

Descent is a specific phase of flight.

 

Like many fields, there is a specialized language for aviation.

 

 

 Yes, I do fly.

 

While “descent” does apply to a plane approaching a controlled landing, it also applies (contrary to your earlier post) to any coming down - including pre- crash.

 

Just because the word is used in aviation, it does not lose its general meaning. 

[SRF]

So, as a double check, I asked on an aviation forum.  Actually the oldest continuously operating online community.

 

And every one who has answered agreed with me.  And one sent this link to explain the phases of flight - https://www.1001crash.com/index-page-statistique-lg-2-numpage-3.html

 

Descent, in aviation is a specific phase of flight, and has a specific meaning in flying, and aviation accident investigation.

 

And, BTW, not ALL crashes occur with a downward vector of the aircraft.  CFIT is one.

 

What did you or do you fly?

[ldubs]

On 2/17/2019 at 10:14 AM, navybankerteacher said:

Perhaps;  but considering proper use of our language at least has some value —- while dwelling on superstitious supermarket tabloid trash about the dreaded Bermuda Triangle is an utter waste of time.

 

I agree it has value unless it becomes quibbling and gets in the way of effective communication.   

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, SRF said:

So, as a double check, I asked on an aviation forum.  Actually the oldest continuously operating online community.

 

And every one who has answered agreed with me.  And one sent this link to explain the phases of flight - https://www.1001crash.com/index-page-statistique-lg-2-numpage-3.html

 

Descent, in aviation is a specific phase of flight, and has a specific meaning in flying, and aviation accident investigation.

 

And, BTW, not ALL crashes occur with a downward vector of the aircraft.  CFIT is one.

 

What did you or do you fly?

Learned in an Aeronca 7AC and Piper J3 (yes, I’m that old), then Piper Tri Pacer and finally Cessna 172.  Given it up now.

 

 

[Heidi13]

On 2/15/2019 at 7:29 PM, navybankerteacher said:

 

Actually, it’s not the take off part that is dangerous. Virtually all injuries and fatalities take place when the plane comes down.   

The worst airline accident actually involved 2 B-747's that were still on the runway. Almost 600 deaths on both aircraft. While a small percentage to the total deaths/injuries since the advent of air travel, this is still considered as the world's worst airline disaster.

 

Many aircraft were diverted to Tenerife, causing congestion. Fog also precluded visibility between the tower and aircraft. The accident happened in 1977, with a KLM aircraft initiating take-off before receiving clearance from the tower. It collided with a Pan-Am aircraft that had already landed, but had not cleared the runway.

 

This is a classic human factors accident and is included in many airline & marine human factors training.

[SRF]

18 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Learned in an Aeronca 7AC and Piper J3 (yes, I’m that old), then Piper Tri Pacer and finally Cessna 172.  Given it up now.

 

 

BTW, on the aviation forum, it was pointed out that there have been crashed while the aircraft was climbing.  But the ground was climbing faster.

 

I got my private in a Grumman Tiger.  Have flown most of the Cessna and Piper singles.  A few twins.  Several tailwheel aircraft.  Gliders.  Helicopters.  And the T-37, T-38, A-10 for the AF. 

 

Have flown later aircraft from the 7AC family, the 7ECA, 7GCBC, 7KCAB, 8KCB (both 150 and 180HP versions).  Never flew a J-3 (yet, I have a friend with one), but have flown a J-5, and two versions of the PA-18 Super Cub (115 and 150 HP).

[SRF]

13 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

The worst airline accident actually involved 2 B-747's that were still on the runway. Almost 600 deaths on both aircraft. While a small percentage to the total deaths/injuries since the advent of air travel, this is still considered as the world's worst airline disaster.

 

Many aircraft were diverted to Tenerife, causing congestion. Fog also precluded visibility between the tower and aircraft. The accident happened in 1977, with a KLM aircraft initiating take-off before receiving clearance from the tower. It collided with a Pan-Am aircraft that had already landed, but had not cleared the runway.

 

This is a classic human factors accident and is included in many airline & marine human factors training.

 

Yes, and was the reason for precise wording and phrases used to prevent misunderstandings.

 

The requirement and use of proper terms is not understood well by people not in the field.

 

When we had a racing sailboat, people would question why we used the terms we did.  So I would always have them forward at some point, looking back at me, and I would say, LOOK LEFT, while pointing Port.  Of course, they would look to THEIR LEFT, and then see my hand, then agree that maybe the terms were used for a reason. 😄

[pacruise804]

On 2/15/2019 at 5:28 PM, navybankerteacher said:

 

The “Bermuda Triangle” as generally understood is NOT a myth. It is a clearly defined triangular area of the sea with apex points at Miami, San Juan Puerto Rico, and Bermuda.  Look at any map of the North Atlantic Ocean and you can see where it is.

 

Of course, the notion that many unexplained happenings there must result from some supernatural phenomena is questionable.  Yes, lots of ships and planes have “vanished” there —- which is kind of understandable as it covers a very large area of heavy traveled sea.  Worrying about it is even sillier than refusing to sit down at a table of thirteen — because whenever there are thirteen at a table it is a demonstrable FACT that one of them will die first.  

 

 

 

What if the first 2 or more to die died in a simultaneous event, wouldn't that disprove the fact?

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, pacruise804 said:

 

What if the first 2 or more to die died in a simultaneous event, wouldn't that disprove the fact?

Arguably,  but a simultaneous event, such as a plane crash other disaster would not necessarily mean both would die simultaneously —- and certainly not provably.

 

Would you prefer a  broader prediction: “If thirteen people sit down at the same table, it is a certainty that  they will all die”?

[Kmkub]

2 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

Would you prefer a  broader prediction: “If thirteen people sit down at the same table, it is a certainty that  they will all die”?

I would predict that all will die, regardless of the number. 6,023 people sit down to eat. How many will die? All of them.

[Underwatr]

If a plane crashes right on the US-Canada border, where do they bury the survivors?

 

Can we agree that this thread has run its course? 🙂

[navybankerteacher]

6 minutes ago, Underwatr said:

If a plane crashes right on the US-Canada border, where do they bury the survivors?

 

Can we agree that this thread has run its course? 🙂

Are you suggesting that the airline would not want any witness to possibly testify about their negligence?