Question - Is the ship in Schengen area while cruising?

[grinningimm]

After an upcoming transatlantic from Florida to Barcelona, we will be traveling extensively in Europe. We have done a lot of research on Schengen rules, and will want to spend every one of the allowable 90 days inside the zone, so here is my question:  Once we make our first port call on the cruise, how are port days (and the seadays in-between) counted with respect to Schengen - are we in Schengen or not when cruising?

 

If the specifics help, here they are. After leaving Key West, the ports are in the Canary Islands (two ports), a seaday, then Malaga, then a seaday, then Barcelona for disembarkation. If the Schengen "clock" starts ticking in the Canaries and doesn't stop, then I potentially need to account for (up to) 6 days spent "in" Schengen, even though we are on the ship.  Those are 6 days I cannot stay inside the zone later in the trip.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by grinningimm

[FionaMG]

I believe the clock will start ticking on entry to your first port in the Canaries, and not stop.

 

The full Schengen Border Code can be found here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32016R0399

 

The below is copied from the above. The parts which would apply to your trip, as I see it, would be 3.2.3 (a) and 3.2.3 (e), which suggest to me that you will go through the entry procedure on your first arrival in the Canaries but will not go through exit procedures.

I am no expert in matters of law, however, and stand to be corrected, if necessary, by someone who is.

 

3.2.   Specific check procedures for certain types of shipping

Cruise ships

3.2.1.

The cruise ship’s master shall transmit to the competent authority the itinerary and the programme of the cruise, as soon as they have been established and no later than within the time-limit set out in point 3.1.2.

3.2.2.

If the itinerary of a cruise ship comprises exclusively ports situated in the territory of the Member States, by way of derogation from Articles 5 and 8, no border checks shall be carried out and the cruise ship may dock at ports which are not border crossing points. Nevertheless, checks shall be carried out on the crew and passengers of those ships only when this is justified on the basis of an assessment of the risks related to internal security and illegal immigration.

3.2.3.

If the itinerary of a cruise ship comprises both ports situated in the territory of the Member States and ports situated in third countries, by way of derogation from Article 8, border checks shall be carried out as follows: (a) where the cruise ship comes from a port situated in a third country and calls for the first time at a port situated in the territory of a Member State, crew and passengers shall be subject to entry checks on the basis of the nominal lists of crew and passengers, as referred to in point 3.1.2. Passengers going ashore shall be subject to entry checks in accordance with Article 8 unless an assessment of the risks related to internal security and illegal immigration shows that there is no need to carry out such checks; (b) where the cruise ship comes from a port situated in a third country and calls again at a port situated in the territory of a Member State, crew and passengers shall be subject to entry checks on the basis of the nominal lists of crew and passengers as referred to in point 3.1.2. to the extent that those lists have been modified since the cruise ship called at the previous port situated in the territory of a Member State. Passengers going ashore shall be subject to entry checks in accordance with Article 8 unless an assessment of the risks related to internal security and illegal immigration shows that there is no need to carry out such checks; (c) where the cruise ship comes from a port situated in a Member State and calls at such a port, passengers going ashore shall be subject to entry checks in accordance with Article 8 if an assessment of the risks related to internal security and illegal immigration so requires; (d) where a cruise ship departs from a port situated in a Member State to a port in a third country, crew and passengers shall be subject to exit checks on the basis of the nominal lists of crew and passengers. If an assessment of the risks related to internal security and illegal immigration so requires, passengers going on board shall be subject to exit checks in accordance with Article 8; (e) where a cruise ship departs from a port situated in a Member State to such a port, no exit checks shall be carried out.

Edited February 26, 2019 by FionaMG

[hallasm]

The Schengen Treaty is fully applied in Canary Islands - the clock will start when you reach Canary Islands.

 

[Heidi13]

My understanding of the procedure, is the clock start and continues until you depart the Schengen Zone. On arrival at the Canary Islands, the clock will start and on departure, although you are in International Waters, your next port is in the Schengen Zone, so no exit procedure will be completed.

[grinningimm]

Man, I love this website.  I concur with the above opinions, and want to especially thank @FionaMG for quoting the regulations.

[FionaMG]

Just now, grinningimm said:

Man, I love this website.  I concur with the above opinions, and want to especially thank @FionaMG for quoting the regulations.

Glad to have been of assistance. I'm only sorry that it means you're going to "lose" a few days on this side of the pond. However, I am sure a fabulous trip is on the cards regardless. 

[grinningimm]

It's absolutely workable, now that we have accounted for our days properly.  We would like to be over there until the westbound TAs start again in Oct/Nov, so we will be spending time in the UK and in places like Croatia and Bulgaria, so that our Schengen days aren't adding up too quickly.

[sailing canary]

Hello

I haven't been able to work out from your post how long you intend to spend in Europe, whether in Schengen or non-Schengen countries. Just bear in mind that if you clock up 90 days in the Schengen area at the beginning,  you then have to be out of the Schengen area for 90 days before you can get back in.

Simply put - it's 90 days in any 180 day period. HTH🙂

[hallasm]

If you are leaving the Schengen Area to visit a country outside Schengen the clock will be stopped when outside the Schengen Area.

Remember that you’ll need a multiple entry Visa (if Visa required for Schengen)  if you are leaving Schengen and want to go back into the Schengen Area.

The 26 Schengen countries are: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland.

 

The Schengen visa allows the holder to a total stay of up to 90 days within a period of 6 months for tourist or business purposes - you may leave and return any number of times within the 180-day period, but the combined stay within the region must not total more than 90 days.

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by hallasm

[SRF]

On 2/26/2019 at 1:41 PM, grinningimm said:

It's absolutely workable, now that we have accounted for our days properly.  We would like to be over there until the westbound TAs start again in Oct/Nov, so we will be spending time in the UK and in places like Croatia and Bulgaria, so that our Schengen days aren't adding up too quickly.

 

That works, as UK and Bulgaria and Croatia are Schengen.

 

Actually, I prefer non-Schengen for most of my visits.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by SRF

[grinningimm]

I think you meant UK and Bulgaria and Croatia are NOT Schengen.

 

We know that we have lots of places to "run" to, and we plan to be conservative when approaching the 90-days-spent-in-Schengen point, in case we ultimately need to come back into Schengen to get on the return boat, or a return flight.  Plus I think it would be a good idea to never get to your very last (90th) day.  It would be an inopportune time to run into some sort of problem.

Edited February 28, 2019 by grinningimm

[SRF]

22 hours ago, grinningimm said:

I think you meant UK and Bulgaria and Croatia are NOT Schengen.

 

We know that we have lots of places to "run" to, and we plan to be conservative when approaching the 90-days-spent-in-Schengen point, in case we ultimately need to come back into Schengen to get on the return boat, or a return flight.  Plus I think it would be a good idea to never get to your very last (90th) day.  It would be an inopportune time to run into some sort of problem.

 

YES, they are NON-Schengen.

 

I did some editing, and missed that, thanks.

 

If you just connect by air (do not leave the airport), you do not enter the Schengen zone.  If you fly in to catch a ship, then you would be entering the Schengen zone.

 

When I travel to/from Bulgaria, through Paris or Frankfurt, I do not enter the Schengen zone.

 

However, if you fly into Brussels, then to Vienna, then to Bulgaria, you enter Schengen in Brussels, the exit the zone when leaving Vienna.  I did this exact trip. 😄

[kristi195]

I have a similar question. If the cruise line does not take your passport, and you go on an excursion at your EU ports through the cruise line, when you do disembark, let's say in Barcelona where they actually will check your passport and stamp it, would not that be the day to begin counting from as your passport was never previously stamped at any other port? You are still on the cruise ship. I was told by someone who did a similar itinerary that I am planning they never needed their passport only when disembarking in Barcelona. Would really like someone to answer this as even the cruise line is not up to speed on these rules. Thank you

Edited March 18, 2019 by kristi195

[kristi195]

I am asking because I have flown into the EU a few times before, and when you exit, your days are counted from your previous stamp only. If your passports are not stamped in a port, let us say you do not get off the ship at the port, realistically you are not entering the country at that point. There is no way when you exit Schengen for them to know when you arrived at a port unless it is stamped. This is a very confusing topic with many confusing answers.

[MicCanberra]

Tourist visa is commonly valid for stays no more than 90 days. If you will be traveling a lot and not only in one Schengen country it’s recommendable to fill in the “multiple entry” gap in the application form. This way you will be able to enter and leave Schengen Zone as you please for the amount of time allowed on your visa issued.

[kristi195]

Hi I have a US passport and have traveled through Europe before and did not have to fill out any forms. Only an entry stamp and exit stamp so they could see how many days I was there. I will be in all Schengen and this is why I was wondering about being on the ship at a cruise port. I do not think the cruise line stamps as only immigration and/or customs stamps a passport.

[SRF]

The stamps are no longer what matters.

 

They scan your passport and it looks up your information.  So if you do a port in Schengen, the ship has forwarded the manifest, with your passport info, to be entered into the system.

 

They know when you entered and exited Schengen zone without looking at the stamps.  And personally, I have never seen they even really look at the stamps, they just look to see if they can find your entry, to stamp by it, but if not, they just stamp it.

[Heidi13]

18 hours ago, kristi195 said:

I am asking because I have flown into the EU a few times before, and when you exit, your days are counted from your previous stamp only. If your passports are not stamped in a port, let us say you do not get off the ship at the port, realistically you are not entering the country at that point. There is no way when you exit Schengen for them to know when you arrived at a port unless it is stamped. This is a very confusing topic with many confusing answers.

Whether you remain on board the ship has no impact on determining your entry into the zone. By being aboard the ship, you are within the National Waters, so are deemed as having entered the country.

 

Concur with SRF, as my passport rarely gets stamped these days, with the exception being SE Asia. All recent trips to the USA & Europe, I have not received any stamps. The passport is scanned, which creates the records.

 

If cruising in Europe, I consider arrival to first port as when the clock starts and unless we visit a non-Schengen port, the clock continues throughout the entire cruise.

[MicCanberra]

Most developed countries have embraced the electronic passport and as such it is the scanning rather than the stamping of passports that is important.

[kristi195]

It must have just changed since I last went. I visited in 2016 and got stamps when I entered Iceland and again when I left.

[SRF]

13 hours ago, kristi195 said:

It must have just changed since I last went. I visited in 2016 and got stamps when I entered Iceland and again when I left.

 

Most countries still stamp, but that is not what they use to determine visa over stays or similar.

 

The stamps are for other officials in the country if they have a question if you legally entered.

[sunnyinchagrin]

Thank you so much for this discussion!  These are exactly the answers I was looking for as I, too, will cruise to Europe and plan to travel for 90 days, stopping at several European ports.  I appreciate the suggestion of spending some time in Croatia and Bulgaria which are destinations I want, anyway.

Question:  When I get to Croatia since I do not need a visa (US citizen), do I go to passport control to insure my passport reflects my time out of Schengen area?  Do I need to file paper work?

[SRF]

You WILL go through passport control when you go from a Schengen country to a non-Schengen country.

 

In fact TWICE.  Once leaving the Schengen area, and then when you enter the non-Schengen country.  Same when going back.

 

I think I mentioned this, but I had trip where I arrived in Brussels from Africa.  Went through passport control to enter Schengen area.  Got luggage, checked for next flight, flew to Vienna.  Went through passport control to leave Schengen area.  Flew to Sofia, Bulgaria.  Went through passport control to enter Bulgaria.  Oh, and yes, I went through passport control leaving Africa.

 

Similar going out.  Passport control leaving Bulgaria, entering Schengen in Zurich, leaving Brussels, entering the US.

[sunnyinchagrin]

Thank you for the clarification.  This helps so much..  Right now I am at 96 days so I need to work to get it down to 89.

So if my ship stops at Phillipsburg (Dutch), sails for 5 days, stops at Tenerife (Spanish), sails for two days...... do I also lose the sailing days as if I am in Shengen? Does the clock start at Phillipsburg and then continue because I have not checked out?  I'm thinking it does.

So appreciated.

[LakeSideKen]

Amazing amount of energy being devoted to how to stay 89/90 days in Europe when, if you want to stay longer the simple answer is get a visa, which for a USA citizen with deep roots in the USA, i.e., no danger of an overstay in Europe, should be easy. (The 90-day rule is about how long you can stay without a visa.)