Currency Question

[John Bull]

3 hours ago, Guernseycruiser said:

 

Please don't confuse Jersey with Guernsey as I may become offended 🤣🤣🤣

 

Nope, no confusion..

The bear mentioned "Channel Islands" but I specifically mentioned Jersey cos I know there's differences and loyalties.

Same as there are two colours in Liverpool, Glasgow, North London, etc.  

 

JB 

[D C]

On 3/5/2019 at 11:37 AM, Guernseycruiser said:

 

Please don't confuse Jersey with Guernsey as I may become offended 🤣🤣🤣

And only jokes about crapauds, never about Donkeys? 😉

 

I can't claim allegiance to either, as my ancestors went from Jersey to Sark to Guernsey.  :) 

[D C]

On 3/5/2019 at 5:06 AM, John Bull said:

 

It's a mite too complicated for JB, but you're surprisingly close to the answer, my furry old friend. 

 

Thick & dusty quill-written books say that Jersey is an English(>British) Crown Dependency,

 

However, Jersey was part of the Duchy of Normandy in 1066 when the the Duke of Normandy, Guillaume le Batard (aka William the Conqueror) won that little altercation with King Harold at Hastings and installed himself as King of England.

So Jerseymen claim that England was Jersey's first colony.  

 

JB 

The real head-spinning part is that while Channel Islands are British, but not part of the UK, they're also not part of the EU, which the UK is, of course. So you might say that the UK is envious, and trying to be more like the Channel Islands with their Brexit business. 

 

And of course, already mentioned that while split into two Bailiwicks, they share a monarch, who happens to also be a queen, but is really their duke, and not their dutchess, despite being female.  It's all quite simple, really. 

[gnome12]

15 minutes ago, D C said:

It's all quite simple, really. 

NOT

[D C]

5 hours ago, gnome12 said:

NOT

 

It’s fascinating (to me), and somewhat simple if you look at things historically.

Let’s go back to 1065, leading up to the Norman Invasion/Battle of Hastings that would come in 1066.

William (the Bastard) was, at that time, the Duke of Normandy.  Normandy being named for the Normans, also known as Norsemen, also known as Vikings.  The first Duke of Normandy was Rollo the Norseman, with the title being bestowed in 911 by the French king.  The king figured that it was better to have them on your side, seeing as how they more or less ruled Normandy at the time. Wise move. 

 

The Channel Islands have long been a part of Normandy, and were ruled by the Dukes at that time.  Remember we’re in feudal times back then with fiefs and knights and all that good stuff you learned about in history class.  The islands were loyal to William and islanders made up part of William’s men in battle.

 

Ok… where were we… yes, William, and 1065, and on to 1066….

 

So the King of the English dies in 1066. William has a claim to the throne, but that Harold Godwinson guy  (who was already in England) reneges on an alleged promise to William and makes himself king.   William didn’t care for that move, and thus we end up with the Norman Invasion and William becoming “Conqueror” as opposed to “bastard”.  On Christmas day in 1066, he is crowned William I, King of England.  

 

Remember, he was already a Duke at this time.   Once he became King, he chose to also retain the title of Duke of Normandy.   He controlled both lands, but he did so SEPARATELY.  

 

The subsequent Kings of England followed in William’s footsteps and maintained the “Duke of Normandy” title, ruling both separately as William had done.  

 

Until….the French…

 

In 1204, the French retook the mainland France portion of Normandy from King John of England.  This put the bailiwicks in a bit of a pickle.  Their guy was the Duke of Normandy (John, who also happened to be King of England).   The islands themselves were not conquered, but they’re right there off the coast of France.  Do they go with Normandy, or stick with John and risk French invasion?   Loyalty wins out and both bailiwicks affirm their loyalty to their Duke (who, of course, is still moonlighting with that “king” job).

 

That relationship has persisted to today.   The two bailiwicks are independent of each other, and are officially governed by Lt. Governors, who is the Queen’s…errr… Duke’s official representative on the islands.  More importantly, they also have local governments.  When and how they came to be governed separate from each other, I’m uncertain. Perhaps guernseycruiser could shed some light on that.   But being independent, and self-governing with the “Crown’s” blessing, they make their own laws (which are ascended to the Duke/Queen for approval, NOT to parliament), they have their own money (of course), and they each have their own passports.

 

Now… back to the French… there have been periods of time where either island was under siege by the French, the longest period being when Jersey was held for 7 years in the mid 1400s.   

 

As you visit Guernsey (or Jersey), you’ll see the coast dotted with lovely stone towers.  Jersey has them as well.   Many of them date to the late 1700s.  Why, you ask?  Well, it seems that in the late 1700s, there was this little “gentleman’s disagreement” occurring over in the British colonies.   And those pesky settlers had found themselves an ally in one of the military powers of the time.  Yup. France.   So what is the crown to do when it is in a proxy war with France, and it has possessions just off the French coast?   Exactly.  Fortify.  

[gnome12]

To D C

 

Thanks. My head is spinning. The last time I looked at any of that was in a book called “1066 and all that”. Subtitled “A Memorable History of England, comprising all the parts you can remember, including 103 Good Things, 5 Bad Kings and 2 Genuine Dates”

[Host Bonjour]

On 3/5/2019 at 7:11 AM, Globaliser said:

 

I don't know about the others, but as I have said above, I haven't myself had problems using Scottish notes in England (well, London anyway), and I have doubts about whether a bank would (or could) charge a shop anything extra for paying in a Scottish note. While the Guernsey pound is a different currency (GGP) from the UK's pound sterling (GBP), Scottish and Northern Irish notes are for GBP even though they are issued by banks other than the Bank of England.

 

Well....I didn't work for the Bank of England but I did work for one of the biggest American commercial banks and although our notes don't exactly expire or become non-negotiable as some Sterling notes do, money does get taken out of circulation but only because it's old. What changed the need to "recycle" it even quicker was the arrival of the ATM because they performed better (when I was filling them) when the notes were clean and smooth.

 

Notes that did come out of circulation here were the Gold and Silver certificates that resembled ordinary notes but not exactly - there was a distinction. I've never seen a Gold Certificate but I have a few Silver certificates and would get them from time to time in the bank and the reason I mention all this is the theory, I think that you've all helped me arrive at with the great (and funny!) comments: it could be that when these various notes arrive in different hands and different transactions, it will depend entirely upon the person who is on the receiving end (collecting the money) of the transaction and what their awareness or understanding is of currency.

 

Money is money and a currency rate is a currency rate. If fiver is a fiver, it ought not matter what the note looks like as long as that note is representing the exact rate of the GBP. 

 

The example of an American two dollar bill is perfect because it absolutely is legal tender but again, like the Silver certificate, a lot of people haven't seen one or are aware that there is/was such a note. Therefore being presented with a bill triggers an understandable response: you can't use this!

 

A dreadful thing here is when a sidewalk vendor gives me change with Susan B. Anthony dollar coins. They're nearly the same size as our 25 cent coins and so in my change purse....it doesn't go well when I reach in and rely on the feel to choose my coin. Thomas Jefferson and Susan B. ought to have gotten better representation than these monies although Jefferson is also on the nickel. 

 

I once discovered a five hundred dollar bill in a large cash deposit that a business customer was making and I asked him if he was sure he wanted to deposit this bill. It was easy to spot when I was counting even though I counted rather fast, the shade of the ink was different and the paper felt different - I probably felt the paper before I saw the ink - but the customer said no he didn't want it so he got the credit for $500 only. 

 

Immediately I called someone I knew that collected coins and notes to see if they wanted the note and they said yes so I was able to keep the note in my cash drawer because my manager was cool, each night we stored our cash drawers away with a certain amount that I can't recall. I kept forgetting to "buy" it out of my drawer because eventually it was either time to buy it or forward it to the treasury because it had to be surrendered since these bills were no longer in circulation and if we were audited, it wouldn't be great because it would show I'd been carrying the note along in my drawer.

 

The same thing would happen with Silver certificates...I'd ask people if they wanted the note back to switch for another note but most of them did not really understand what I was talking about and just wanted me to get on with the transaction. So...I wonder could this be what's happening if/when currency from other territories or departments or regions is presented in a transaction? It absolutely is legitimate but it will all depend upon the person that is conducting the transaction. The human factor. 

 

It kind of happened to me at this bank when I was new, a customer requested American Express traveler's checks in either French or Swiss francs and I thought "what???" we're in America. Of course I did not yet know that it was possible (although a bit arduous) to purchase traveler's checks denominated in another currency. So that day, I was the one that almost blocked the transaction. When it comes to money, banking, currency, crossing borders (maybe just bridges or small bodies of water) and the effects of time, there can be a lot to take into consideration for a trip and in the day to day!

 

As to us ever having separate money in the states....I hope not; just the thought of that brings back bad memories of the fact that there was a time when we were split in two and had different governments and currencies and presidents. The fifty state quarters thing was enough when they just put a different state on the back of George Washington. 🙂

 

And a tip regarding the feel of money...anywhere because I know the same paper maker provides paper to a large number of western countries and probably more and more countries in the world: that's always the best and only way to tell a note is counterfeit because they can't ever get the paper to feel right. Every single one I caught, I felt it before I saw it while counting large stacks of money...it got me to pause cold stop. Most of us don't use cash that much anymore and the cash we get from ATMs in banks probably goes as it did when I was filling them; only the money that was "delivered" by armor car was put into the machines because it was "clean" money...not crimped and serial numbers are good. The little ones in mini-marts? Only if my life depended on it.

 

So...I haven't even finished reading all these posts but I'm loving the history and local commentary and interesting thoughts. The cheek I got in Scotland probably only came my way because I was a visitor and maybe I had mentioned arriving from London or Tadley where I'd been visiting too. But I enjoyed it and for me it was just one of the things that I travel for...learning and understanding. Just like now even though I am home and would really like to go to the Channel Islands or Wales or maybe Ireland (I am a citizen but have not ever been) and for now, I love to hear these kinds of bits about places I hope to be. 🙂

 

Thanks to everyone for commenting, its great!

 

 

 

 

[John Bull]

A few dis-jointed experiences ............

 

Back in the days of pounds, shillings (20 to the £) and pence (12 to the shilling, 240 to the £) I was once by mistake given a Stannary penny in my change. This was the same size, colour & weight as a regular penny - it was dated about 1820 & I have no idea how it remained in circulation so long. 

Stannary coins were minted in Cornwall . Some were minted by the local Stannary Courts, effectively the local Cornish parliament. Others were minted by tin-mine owners and used to pay the miners - they had the same face value as sterling, but crucially they could only be spent in shops owned by the mine owners. 

 

Also back in the days of pounds, shillings and pence, I went on my first cruise, a "schools' educational cruise" to  the Baltic.

In Leningrad (now St Petersburg) we all lined-up to change our spending-money into roubles. Most kids had a £1 note to change.

There was consternation when I got to the front of the line and presented my note 

Eventually they explained that £10 was an awfully large sum & did I really want to change so much?

It was actually a 10-shilling note (2 x 10 shillings = £1), and they'd never seen one  before.

 

Back in the 1960's a country post office near me was manned single-handedly by a blind man. 

He ran it perfectly well for many years despite his handicap - he could tell the different denominations of British banknotes by feel alone, because they were (still are) of different sizes & textures and embossed differently, though I'm not sure he'd have managed so well nowadays

By contrast, I have to take care when dealing with US banknotes - all vaguely the same size, colour & design. Or am I missing something?

 

I was a millionaire a few years ago. 

But only because I went to Vietnam and changed £30 (about $40) into Vietnamese dong. (30,200 to the £) 

Made me feel good, though.  

 

Colleen - yes, the Scots will rib you about using Bank of England notes in Scotland, but thy do know that they are legal.

But in England there are still shop clerks who will question the validity of Scottish notes

 

 

 

JB 

[sddsddean]

1 hour ago, John Bull said:

Also back in the days of pounds, shillings and pence, I went on my first cruise, a "schools' educational cruise" to  the Baltic.

In Leningrad (now St Petersburg) we all lined-up to change our spending-money into roubles. Most kids had a £1 note to change.

There was consternation when I got to the front of the line and presented my note 

Eventually they explained that £10 was an awfully large sum & did I really want to change so much?

It was actually a 10-shilling note (2 x 10 shillings = £1), and they'd never seen one  before.

 

 

 

 

Changing half as much as everyone else....always thought you were a bit of an old skinflint!!

 

Simon

[D C]

There's no vaguely about it, John.  US Banknotes ARE all the same size, colour, and design.  On some newer notes, the portrait is offset a touch, and lacks the same background, and some notes have just a touch of colour to them.  More anti-counterfeiting than to make them user-friendly.

 

I will say one thing about US notes though.  They all fit in a wallet!  In Europe, I walk around looking like I'm trying to put adult-money in a kid-sized wallet.  

[Host Bonjour]

On 3/9/2019 at 9:00 AM, D C said:

The real head-spinning part is that while Channel Islands are British, but not part of the UK, they're also not part of the EU, which the UK is, of course. So you might say that the UK is envious, and trying to be more like the Channel Islands with their Brexit business. 

 

And of course, already mentioned that while split into two Bailiwicks, they share a monarch, who happens to also be a queen, but is really their duke, and not their dutchess, despite being female.  It's all quite simple, really. 

 

There are so many questions, but then I would probably have to remove my own posts 🙃 although I won't tell if you don't....

I'll look up what a Bailwick is...

 

(it's been a fun thread 😉 thanks everyone!)

[Host Bonjour]

23 hours ago, D C said:

 

It’s fascinating (to me), and somewhat simple if you look at things historically.

Let’s go back to 1065, leading up to the Norman Invasion/Battle of Hastings that would come in 1066.

William (the Bastard) was, at that time, the Duke of Normandy.  Normandy being named for the Normans, also known as Norsemen, also known as Vikings.  The first Duke of Normandy was Rollo the Norseman, with the title being bestowed in 911 by the French king.  The king figured that it was better to have them on your side, seeing as how they more or less ruled Normandy at the time. Wise move. 

 

The Channel Islands have long been a part of Normandy, and were ruled by the Dukes at that time.  Remember we’re in feudal times back then with fiefs and knights and all that good stuff you learned about in history class.  The islands were loyal to William and islanders made up part of William’s men in battle.

 

Ok… where were we… yes, William, and 1065, and on to 1066….

 

So the King of the English dies in 1066. William has a claim to the throne, but that Harold Godwinson guy  (who was already in England) reneges on an alleged promise to William and makes himself king.   William didn’t care for that move, and thus we end up with the Norman Invasion and William becoming “Conqueror” as opposed to “bastard”.  On Christmas day in 1066, he is crowned William I, King of England.  

 

Remember, he was already a Duke at this time.   Once he became King, he chose to also retain the title of Duke of Normandy.   He controlled both lands, but he did so SEPARATELY.  

 

The subsequent Kings of England followed in William’s footsteps and maintained the “Duke of Normandy” title, ruling both separately as William had done.  

 

Until….the French…

 

In 1204, the French retook the mainland France portion of Normandy from King John of England.  This put the bailiwicks in a bit of a pickle.  Their guy was the Duke of Normandy (John, who also happened to be King of England).   The islands themselves were not conquered, but they’re right there off the coast of France.  Do they go with Normandy, or stick with John and risk French invasion?   Loyalty wins out and both bailiwicks affirm their loyalty to their Duke (who, of course, is still moonlighting with that “king” job).

 

That relationship has persisted to today.   The two bailiwicks are independent of each other, and are officially governed by Lt. Governors, who is the Queen’s…errr… Duke’s official representative on the islands.  More importantly, they also have local governments.  When and how they came to be governed separate from each other, I’m uncertain. Perhaps guernseycruiser could shed some light on that.   But being independent, and self-governing with the “Crown’s” blessing, they make their own laws (which are ascended to the Duke/Queen for approval, NOT to parliament), they have their own money (of course), and they each have their own passports.

 

Now… back to the French… there have been periods of time where either island was under siege by the French, the longest period being when Jersey was held for 7 years in the mid 1400s.   

 

As you visit Guernsey (or Jersey), you’ll see the coast dotted with lovely stone towers.  Jersey has them as well.   Many of them date to the late 1700s.  Why, you ask?  Well, it seems that in the late 1700s, there was this little “gentleman’s disagreement” occurring over in the British colonies.   And those pesky settlers had found themselves an ally in one of the military powers of the time.  Yup. France.   So what is the crown to do when it is in a proxy war with France, and it has possessions just off the French coast?   Exactly.  Fortify.  

 

Oh this is good.........

 

These islands....the money....the passports....the government....the Queen/Duke.....how are there not more BBC dramas conjured up around all this? MI5/6 will not abide it? The possibilities are just.....wow. 

 

An aside....all hail the history teachers and students, this is a LOT to get through, well it's a constant isn't it, understanding history? 

 

Oh and was William a bastard in the....not quite biblical sense but without the 'j'accuse' intonation? Or both? 

 

So Jersey and Guernsey, quite separate and apart but if you remove the 'n' and swap out the 'g' ......was that deliberate? 

 

So this went way off the rails 😜

 

History is awesome 🙂

[Cotswold Eagle]

On 3/9/2019 at 7:58 PM, D C said:

 

The subsequent Kings of England followed in William’s footsteps and maintained the “Duke of Normandy” title, ruling both separately as William had done.  

 

 

No, they didn’t. The title split after William I’s death, with one son (Robert) becoming Duke of Normandy and the second (also William) King of England. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Cotswold Eagle

[Host Bonjour]

9 hours ago, John Bull said:

A few dis-jointed experiences ............

 

Back in the days of pounds, shillings (20 to the £) and pence (12 to the shilling, 240 to the £) I was once by mistake given a Stannary penny in my change. This was the same size, colour & weight as a regular penny - it was dated about 1820 & I have no idea how it remained in circulation so long. 

Stannary coins were minted in Cornwall . Some were minted by the local Stannary Courts, effectively the local Cornish parliament. Others were minted by tin-mine owners and used to pay the miners - they had the same face value as sterling, but crucially they could only be spent in shops owned by the mine owners. 

 

Also back in the days of pounds, shillings and pence, I went on my first cruise, a "schools' educational cruise" to  the Baltic.

In Leningrad (now St Petersburg) we all lined-up to change our spending-money into roubles. Most kids had a £1 note to change.

There was consternation when I got to the front of the line and presented my note 

Eventually they explained that £10 was an awfully large sum & did I really want to change so much?

It was actually a 10-shilling note (2 x 10 shillings = £1), and they'd never seen one  before.

 

Back in the 1960's a country post office near me was manned single-handedly by a blind man. 

He ran it perfectly well for many years despite his handicap - he could tell the different denominations of British banknotes by feel alone, because they were (still are) of different sizes & textures and embossed differently, though I'm not sure he'd have managed so well nowadays

By contrast, I have to take care when dealing with US banknotes - all vaguely the same size, colour & design. Or am I missing something?

 

I was a millionaire a few years ago. 

But only because I went to Vietnam and changed £30 (about $40) into Vietnamese dong. (30,200 to the £) 

Made me feel good, though.  

 

Colleen - yes, the Scots will rib you about using Bank of England notes in Scotland, but thy do know that they are legal.

But in England there are still shop clerks who will question the validity of Scottish notes

 

Thanks for the video JB, it is so funny! I can't even remember if I had Scottish notes when I returned to London and Hampshire, probably because that was the unexpectedly extended day of travel on a Sunday of track revitalization (it's got to be done sometime) and so it's likely when I arrived and spent any remaining notes I was so tired and cannot remember although I live for these sorts of experiences so I suspect it was a non-event and the hiding Scotsman didn't need to intervene 😉

 

I enjoyed hearing about the Stanny and about the shillings/rouble/pound conversion not to mention that it must have been a great experience - you've probably mentioned it before and maybe on our Northern European board too although I confess I cannot recall but then I've only been around here a few short years before moving over from Independent Traveler/Family Vacation Critic after years and years. I think it's awesome when young people get to do school trips like that to get an early start on opening up the world beyond their own communities and what's in books or on the telly/cinema screens. 

 

It helped even seeing your conversions up there because I'm always trying to figure what the value of the money is in older films because it does relate to the story if I know how much a shilling or a crown or a guinea is or even what a pound was worth at a certain time. But a Stanny? I read all about the Fitzwilliam family and the mines and the flats they had and etc etc but there wasn't anything about a unique currency which sounds like it was perhaps another way to keep the miners stuck within their own class by restricting them to a closed form of currency but maybe I don't have it right?

 

But indeed a mystery as to how it remained in circulation for such a long time! The other day though I found an Irish type of penny when I was sorting through a pack of travel change since I couldn't recall what was in the mix and this coin, I have to research what it is and why ever it was in with my travel coins because undoubtedly I picked it up in the U.K. but I'm sure like our Stannies and $500 note and Silver certificates (and the date on the coin) it ought to be out of circulation but someone would accept it in a minute as it looks like any old penny. 

 

And now we can pay by holding our phones over a small white plastic thing. Won't be anyone waving around metal detectors looking for an old Nokia, will there? Another reason why this was fun...travel, history, knowledge, info, humor....(but yes, progress is good)

🙂

[Globaliser]

19 hours ago, Host Bonjour said:

... it could be that when these various notes arrive in different hands and different transactions, it will depend entirely upon the person who is on the receiving end (collecting the money) of the transaction and what their awareness or understanding is of currency.

 

This is a very large part of it. Many individuals working in shops (especially for smaller companies) may not have had enough training in recognising non-Bank of England GBP notes (eg Scottish notes). The last time I had a Scottish note to spend, I think I used it in Pret, where it was accepted without question. I wouldn't be surprised if big companies actually spend some time teaching their staff that GBP money does not always say "Bank of England" on it.

 

19 hours ago, Host Bonjour said:

I once discovered a five hundred dollar bill in a large cash deposit that a business customer was making and I asked him if he was sure he wanted to deposit this bill. It was easy to spot when I was counting even though I counted rather fast, the shade of the ink was different and the paper felt different - I probably felt the paper before I saw the ink - but the customer said no he didn't want it so he got the credit for $500 only. 

 

Immediately I called someone I knew that collected coins and notes to see if they wanted the note and they said yes so I was able to keep the note in my cash drawer because my manager was cool, each night we stored our cash drawers away with a certain amount that I can't recall. I kept forgetting to "buy" it out of my drawer because eventually it was either time to buy it or forward it to the treasury because it had to be surrendered since these bills were no longer in circulation and if we were audited, it wouldn't be great because it would show I'd been carrying the note along in my drawer.

 

I'm not sure that this would be nearly as easy to do in the UK any more. Although my bank has sometimes been unexpectedly uncomplicated about some things - eg simply changing an old out-of-circulation Bank of England note for a current one - one thing that I can no longer do is to take a £50 note into the bank and ask them to break it into tens or twenties. I have to pay it in to my account, and then if I want the tens/twenties I have to make a withdrawal. It looks like the procedures have changed so that it is no longer acceptable for the till to contain the correct amount of paper money in total; the number of notes of each denomination must also be exact. A simple exchange would make the till have one £50 note too many, and the relevant number of tens/twenties too few - so that can no longer be done.

[Cotswold Eagle]

32 minutes ago, Host Bonjour said:

 

Oh and was William a bastard in the....not quite biblical sense but without the 'j'accuse' intonation? Or both? 

 

 

I’m not sure what you mean by either alternative, but he was a bastard in the very straightforward sense that his father and mother were not married 🙂

[Host Bonjour]

3 minutes ago, Globaliser said:

 

This is a very large part of it. Many individuals working in shops (especially for smaller companies) may not have had enough training in recognising non-Bank of England GBP notes (eg Scottish notes). The last time I had a Scottish note to spend, I think I used it in Pret, where it was accepted without question. I wouldn't be surprised if big companies actually spend some time teaching their staff that GBP money does not always say "Bank of England" on it.

 

 

I'm not sure that this would be nearly as easy to do in the UK any more. Although my bank has sometimes been unexpectedly uncomplicated about some things - eg simply changing an old out-of-circulation Bank of England note for a current one - one thing that I can no longer do is to take a £50 note into the bank and ask them to break it into tens or twenties. I have to pay it in to my account, and then if I want the tens/twenties I have to make a withdrawal. It looks like the procedures have changed so that it is no longer acceptable for the till to contain the correct amount of paper money in total; the number of notes of each denomination must also be exact. A simple exchange would make the till have one £50 note too many, and the relevant number of tens/twenties too few - so that can no longer be done.

 

It's possible you might have come across a new teller G; newer hires are under tighter cash 'limits' than more experienced staff, sort of a 'probation' until all the vast rules and requirements for security are understood along with the requisite speed coming along for getting things done quickly. Although banks might not be as crowded as they once were with so many things happening digitally now, the  banks are as security minded or more so than ever and auditors might show up any time unannounced. No decent manager will run the risk of having a new staff person be the weak link in a branch being written up for a weak spot. Trying to think of scenarios in which a £50 would be an issue - we had limits on what could be in the reserve drawer under the till, all the large bills went there immediately for us and were never kept up top. I can't recall what my initial backup drawer limit was - maybe $10,000 and then I was required to "sell" money to the head teller...not an easy thing to do if the queue was full! And the drawer could fill up quick - forget about large bills - the smaller ones pile up quickly although turning away one large bill seems not such a big deal, if someone is new and on limits, they are unlikely to take a chance. The 'probation' period only was 3 or 6 months I think and then the instincts and intuition start to develop. It helps if there was prior experience working with people and/or money; some people never have, I started when I was a kid.

 

Actually, it's the thing to do. One day we were unbelievably busy, it had to have been a payday and maybe even around Christmastime. My reserve drawer was near capacity and although by then I was an experienced Senior teller and that day working on the private client side of the bank, thus receiving much higher level cash deposits from businesses and other individual customers, it did not exempt me from limits. I really needed to get rid of the cash but there had not been a moment to stop. I was even throwing money into my coin safe underneath both my till and reserve drawer. Here's what happened:

 

For whatever reason, I had to walk away from my station to fetch something...to complete a transaction that I didn't already have at my station. Things seemed fine and we finished the day but when I counted my till I was off $500 exactly. Did the double count, nothing. Then bank rules require an officer to count my cash and review my transactions. Still nothing. They kept looking because I'd been there about three years and knew I hadn't taken it so everyone, the entire bank was stymied. I was devastated. I knew my mistake was terrible and I admitted it. I also was nearly certain where the money went but obviously could not prove it because a change had occurred earlier that hadn't made sense until it became apparent the money was gone. So it was this thing like, you made the mistake, you have to live with it now and that person knew it. Game. Set. Match.

 

And so I tell this completely off topic money story in the hopes it might help with understanding why some teller wasn't accommodating - he/she might have been practically restricted from doing so, or...just not great at their job, or poorly trained. For two of the three it's always worth letting the bank know and this I know from the great experience I had at my bank. Customer experience was everything and this was a major (then/now) huge part of how we did our job so if you feel "oh, it doesn't matter if I say something" I tell you, yes...it really does. If the past 10 years or so has proven anything it's that banks get things wrong sometimes. 😉

 

Oh as for the "feel of denominations" of US money, it's of course correct that the sizes of note have all been the same but I'm inclined to think that indeed, someone without sight would probably have the ability to detect one note from another because of the depth of the engravings and by feeling the different faces of whomever was on the center of the note and the feel of whatever number was on the corner of the note. There were deep, deliberate engravings made in the past to make the impressions on the note that one could certainly feel - nothing like ridges but there were certainly palpable edges and dents/impressions made in the paper - by the heavy plates used to stamp ink on the notes. Of course when a person loses the ability to use one sense the other senses become much more attuned and so I am not surprised to here of the blind clerk that managed so well with money; as I mentioned above, I could feel a counterfeit before I saw it (some actually did look good) and before I confirmed it with the Secret Service (yep we had a direct hotline to them, special phone and everything) so I believe that easy. I know it's true too that security and processes have changed in order to deter counterfeiting so the money is probably a bit flatter now because the paper has holographic images and other secret surprises embedded into it so that hard strikes from old heavy engraving plates would destroy the built in security embedded into the paper. That said, with the new methods there has to be yet another way for blind folks to use these new effects in the money to aid them in determining which notes is which. 

 

They did turn some US notes funny colors; our Ten is a sort of peach shade and the Hundred is to me, periwinkle-ish. Calling it just blue seemed boring. But it sure was odd when it debuted. I guess they had to pull out all the stops to try to keep them from duplicating that one. I'm glad I don't have to be the one trying to look out for bad notes on a daily basis. I'm no longer handling large sums of cash and my purse now is more in line with JB's youth travel budget 😉

[Host Bonjour]

1 hour ago, Cotswold Eagle said:

 

I’m not sure what you mean by either alternative, but he was a bastard in the very straightforward sense that his father and mother were not married 🙂

 

I guess I was trying hard not to suggest that a King of England was illegitimate or that he was viewed by many as rather an unsavory type? One doesn't want to just come out and say those things about a person otherwise known as William the Conqueror. (And 1066 is burned in my brain too although I have learned so much more here in this thread, I must say 😉 )

[SteveH2508]

The devil in me wants to throw Maundy money into the history mix here...

 

https://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/maundy-money

[Globaliser]

20 minutes ago, Host Bonjour said:

It's possible you might have come across a new teller G; newer hires are under tighter cash 'limits' than more experienced staff, sort of a 'probation' until all the vast rules and requirements for security are understood along with the requisite speed coming along for getting things done quickly.

 

I know what you're saying, and it all makes sense. But this was in the branch that has been my branch for over 30 years now. I know all the people there, and it wasn't someone new. He explained that he couldn't do it any more, and it had to be done through two transactions. And now that I know, I haven't bothered to try that again: I've just waited for an opportunity to get a shop to break the £50 note instead.

[SteveH2508]

22 minutes ago, Globaliser said:

 

I know what you're saying, and it all makes sense. But this was in the branch that has been my branch for over 30 years now. I know all the people there, and it wasn't someone new. He explained that he couldn't do it any more, and it had to be done through two transactions. And now that I know, I haven't bothered to try that again: I've just waited for an opportunity to get a shop to break the £50 note instead.

Bookies are fine accepting £50 notes - and it is the Cheltenham festival next week...

[John Bull]

20 hours ago, sddsddean said:

 

Changing half as much as everyone else....always thought you were a bit of an old skinflint!!

 

Simon

 

No, Simon, not a skinflint.  I'm careful, just careful 

 

PS Did the kookaburra that I sent you arrive safely ? 

I had difficulties with it at Brisbane airport - they're a protected species & exporting live kookaburras is illegal.

So to avoid prosecution first I had to put it on a barbie.

Do eat it within 48 hours

 

 

19 hours ago, D C said:

I will say one thing about US notes though.  They all fit in a wallet!  In Europe, I walk around looking like I'm trying to put adult-money in a kid-sized wallet.  

 

 

That's as may be, DC, but at least we don't have to stuff dozens of notes into a wallet.

A dollar is worth a lot less than a pound, yet the US continues with one-dollar bills. The smallest denomination for sterling or euro notes is £5 /€5.  As I've seen many times,  Americans keep their notes in a roll cos there's too many to fit in a wallet.

 

There are advantages to $1 bills, though.

Even though it's worth less, a two dollar tip seems much more substantial than a couple of pound coins.

And when I leave the house I just take my wallet. Anything I buy results in coins up to £5 in my change. When I get home that change goes on the mantelpiece. Next time I go out, again I just take my wallet and again change ends up on the mantelpiece.. 

Now I'm now facing a huge bill from a structural engineer to strengthen the mantelpiece. 

.................................................................

A word of warning if you're travelling to Aus or New Zealand.

I was royally ripped-off in both countries. 

Shops offer goods for prices like AUD 4.99 or NZD 9.99.

In both countries I was short-changed on every purchase by 1 cent.

That's because the smallest coin in Aus is 5 cents, and as of last year the smallest NZ coin is 10 cents.

One cent may not seem very much, but in the course of three weeks it cost me a total of almost 15 cents.

I've written to the World Bank to complain, but for whatever reason I've not yet received a reply.

 

JB 

 

 

[SteveH2508]

JB

 

I bet you were one penny short on your postage, so they would not deliver without the bank picking up the postage due...

 

[gnome12]

23 minutes ago, John Bull said:

A word of warning if you're travelling to Aus or New Zealand.

I was royally ripped-off in both countries. 

Shops offer goods for prices like AUD 4.99 or NZD 9.99.

In both countries I was short-changed on every purchase by 1 cent.

That's because the smallest coin in Aus is 5 cents, and as of last year the smallest NZ coin is 10 cents.

One cent may not seem very much, but in the course of three weeks it cost me a total of almost 15 cents.

I've written to the World Bank to complain, but for whatever reason I've not yet received a reply.

 

JB 

 

 

Canada also dropped the 1 cent coin. However, because we have a sales tax at the register (13% in Ontario) and the rounding is only done on the total bill, you are generally just as likely to have the bill rounded down as rounded up. And, if you pay by any electronic means, there is no rounding at all; you are charged the exact amount.

[Globaliser]

1 hour ago, John Bull said:

One cent may not seem very much, but in the course of three weeks it cost me a total of almost 15 cents.

I've written to the World Bank to complain, but for whatever reason I've not yet received a reply.

 

We'll all bear this in mind come Secret Santa time ...