Itinerary Change!!! - When do you plan on letting us all know, HAL ????

[VennDiagram]

1 hour ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

You will have a nice letter waiting for you in your cabin advising you of the change in ports. Similar to departure day when folks fly independently to their ports of departure on that day with inherent risks involved, HAL can not be expected to deal with, and is not responsible for, the independent travel plans and privately booked shore excursions of her pax in designated ports of call

 

I don't think anyone suggested that HAL was responsible for privately arranged shore excursions.  IMHO this is about HAL's failure to communicate with its customers since HAL knows about the itinerary change.  HAL fails significantly in many areas of communications and this is another example.  I think it is ridiculous that a private tour operator told the OP, instead of HAL telling them.  Information is a corporate resource/asset (again imho) and HAL is not doing a good job with it 😞 

Edited March 30, 2019 by VennDiagram

[kazu]

37 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

We too can agree to disagree. 

 

As a risk averse individual, I'm someone who always flies in a minimum of a day in advance, but I do understand why some people fly in the day of embarkation. I agree with you that HAL has no responsibility for problems experienced by those people and flight delays leading to them missing embarkation. However, to describe a situation more closely paralleling the one described by Jacqui, if HAL decided weeks in advance to leave port a few hours early and not tell anyone, your darned right HAL would be responsible.

 

On the issue of private shore excursion, anyone arranging them understands the potential risks involved should the ship miss a port or be late arriving do to weather, mechanical issues, etc.. We all understand and accept last minute changes. While I agree that HAL might not bear legal responsibility for anyone's financial losses incurred because of this change, it certainly bears moral responsibility to inform all of its passengers when a port change is known well in advance.

 

One question that I haven't seen addressed here, or perhaps I just missed it: have any of the passengers who booked HAL excursions for Le Palais been advised of the change and reimbursed? 

 

 

 

Like you, we never fly in the day of.  We are actually using flight ease for our flight over because of the carriers and price offered but with our wonderful embarkation port, we are coming in 4 days early.

 

To answer your question - No, no one on our roll call (and a number had booked a HAL excursion here)  has been advised of the change.  Nor have their credit cards been reimbursed (which is what would happen if it was cancelled now since it is pre-cruise).

 

Reimbursement will probably be on board in the form of OBC at the rate things are going.

 

HAL is still selling the shore excursions in Le Palais on our cruise.

[Fouremco]

2 minutes ago, kazu said:

HAL is still selling the shore excursions in Le Palais on our cruise.

I guess that would explain the lack of reimbursements! Unbelievable. 

[kazu]

1 minute ago, Fouremco said:

I guess that would explain the lack of reimbursements! Unbelievable. 

 

 

Our roll call members have cancelled their shore excursions for it so at least they will get their money back now.  But, with the port cancelled, the shore excursions should be and people should be refunded, I agree.

[Copper10-8]

1 minute ago, kazu said:

 

 

Our roll call members have cancelled their shore excursions for it so at least they will get their money back now.  But, with the port cancelled, the shore excursions should be and people should be refunded, I agree.

 

 

When was the decision to cancel made? You mentioned you heard about if from your contact yesterday. Did he tell you why?

[kazu]

6 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

 

When was the decision to cancel made? You mentioned you heard about if from your contact yesterday. Did he tell you why?

 

 How would he (my private tour operator) know when the decision was made or why?   HAL told him they were cancelling all tours with him and going to another island.  No explanation, nothing.  

 

I am just grateful that like many reputable operators, he let me know.  I do the same thing for them when I find out my port has been cancelled to free them up as quickly as possible.

 

 

[Copper10-8]

2 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

 How would he (my private tour operator) know when the decision was made or why?   HAL told him they were cancelling all tours with him and going to another island.  No explanation, nothing.  

 

I am just grateful that like many reputable operators, he let me know.  I do the same thing for them when I find out my port has been cancelled to free them up as quickly as possible.

 

 

 

 

How would he know? Well, HAL could have told him when they advised him they were cancelling the port call, yes? Seems like the logical thing to do instead of "Hey, Jean-Pierre, we're not coming and guess what, we're going to Guernsey instead, See ya". If they did not give him a reason and he didn't ask, well.............

[Fouremco]

34 minutes ago, VennDiagram said:

HAL fails significantly in many areas of communications and this is another example. 

I couldn't agree more. So many threads on the HAL board would never have been started in the first place had HAL been able to develop and implement an effective communications strategy and the infrastructure to support it. 

[kazu]

1 hour ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

 

How would he know? Well, HAL could have told him when they advised him they were cancelling the port call, yes? Seems like the logical thing to do instead of "Hey, Jean-Pierre, we're not coming and guess what, we're going to Guernsey instead, See ya". If they did not give him a reason and he didn't ask, well.............

 

Since HAL has not yet informed their PAYING CUSTOMERS, I think it is a huge stretch to expect them to provide that information to a supplier.

 

Despite what you seem to be trying to insinuate, this is not a failure of the operator.  Why would the operator ask anything that could be misinterpreted by their CUSTOMER (in this case, HAL)?

 

It’s not the tour operators job to tell me where HAL is going and why.  It’s HAL’s.
 

[Copper10-8]

6 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Since HAL has not yet informed their PAYING CUSTOMERS, I think it is a huge stretch to expect them to provide that information to a supplier.

 

Despite what you seem to be trying to insinuate, this is not a failure of the operator.  Why would the operator ask anything that could be misinterpreted by their CUSTOMER (in this case, HAL)?

 

It’s not the tour operators job to tell me where HAL is going and why.  It’s HAL’s.
 

 

Awwwwrighty then! So much for that one 

[knittinggirl]

We lost two ports on our Canada/New England cruise last fall.  Not sure how long it took them to contact us, because we were out at sea when they changed it.  We went from a 13-day cruise, to an 11-day one.  They did issue a little onboard credit.

[cruisemom42]

This is one of the most annoying and unpleasant aspects of cruising with some lines. My parents several times have had issues with HAL not informing them of changes to itineraries until they were onboard, despite knowing earlier (through my participation on Cruise Critic) that the port was in actuality canceled. In fact, it's one of the reasons I first took to monitoring the HAL board.

 

As they did not generally take private tours, it was less of a hassle for them -- but like me, they liked to research ports and did not appreciate HAL not letting them know in advance about the change so that they could think about which excursions they wanted. I can only imagine how annoyed I would feel had I put in a lot of time and effort arranging private tours only to find out -- from the tour operator! -- that the port was canceled.

 

I see no blame for anyone but HAL in such a situation.

[slidergirl]

Doesn't the Contract of Carriage say that they can change ports at any time without notice?  Or, is something different for the Prisendam?

[TiogaCruiser]

4 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Jacqui has it right, our Trondheim visit will be during our Voyage of the Midnight Sun aboard the Nieuw Amsterdam. As we have a DIY walking tour planned, it will be a relatively minor inconvenience, but for others who have made plans based on our published docking time, things might be more problematic. I posted the information on our roll call, but there are very few others signed up for it, and the majority of the NS passengers won't know in advance unless HAL decides to let everyone know. 

 

6 hours ago, kazu said:

 

Fourmenco said he was on a “Voyage of the Midnight Sun” when he asked for the Norwegian translation to figure out if he was tendering or not.

 

So, I don’t think it’s a Prinsendam cruise, possibly a N Statendam since it has that itinerary.

Thanks to you both. (I remember the question but wasn’t thinking about Voyage name or ship. Thanks for clarifying.

 

I’m not sure what HAL has named our cruise, Prinsendam’s Swan Song.

[Alberta Quilter]

4 hours ago, Fouremco said:

I thought that HAL might have reimbursed them as soon as the port was cancelled, rather than hang onto their money until they were aboard. That would seem to be the reasonable thing to do, IMHO.

 

I posted about our experience in another thread a week or so ago by Fouremco.  We were on the Prinsendam last September.  In August, about a week before our departure, we were advised that our port stop in Derry/Londonderry was now a tender port at Greencastle, instead of docking in Derry (something I had already confirmed with the local tourist bureau several months prior).  We had pre booked a HAL tour to Giant's Causeway.  When the itinerary change was finally confirmed by HAL, they canceled our shorex and reposted the same tour causing us, and others, to hurriedly rebook our tours.  The cost of the original tour was refunded to our credit card.

 

So, I'm sure that since this itinerary change was announced prior to the start of the cruise, the cost of the HAL tours will be refunded immediately.

 

(I should add that on the second segment of the same cruise, we were informed onboard about other itinerary changes.  Nothing quite like a totally new port, like Kazu is experiencing though; ours were timing changes.  However one change was significant enough that I would have done something on my own because of the additional time we had in that port.  I wish we had known about that beforehand to better plan our time me in that port so I totally understand Kazu' point of view.)

Edited March 31, 2019 by Alberta Quilter

[Fouremco]

49 minutes ago, TiogaCruiser said:

 

Thanks to you both. (I remember the question but wasn’t thinking about Voyage name or ship. Thanks for clarifying.

 

I’m not sure what HAL has named our cruise, Prinsendam’s Swan Song.

I just realized that I mistakenly said the Nieuw Amsterdam instead of the Nieuw Statendam. The NA was our February cruise. Duh! 🙄

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, slidergirl said:

Doesn't the Contract of Carriage say that they can change ports at any time without notice?  Or, is something different for the Prisendam?

 

hi slidergirl

 

The most recent HAL contract I can find states:

 

"Except as otherwise provided, Carrier may, for any reason, without prior notice, cancel the Cruise, Land + Sea Journey, and/or Land Trip(s); deviate from the scheduled ports of call, route and timetable; call or omit to call at any port or place or cancel or modify any activity on or off the ship; comply with all governmental laws and orders given by governmental authorities; render assistance to preserve life and property; or change the date or time of sailing or arrival, change the port of embarkation or disembarkation, shorten the Cruise, Land + Sea Journey and/or Land Trip(s), or substitute ships, aircraft or other transportation or lodging." (Emphasis mine).

 

The word "prior" speaks volumes. No one is arguing that HAL doesn't have the right to make changes without prior communication. However, there is nothing that absolves HAL of communicating such changes after they are made.

 

To me, it makes sense for HAL to provide such info, and if airlines can provide notice to customers of changes in flight schedules of only a few minutes' difference, I don't think it imposes an unreasonable request.

 

 

 

 

[RDC1]

deleted

Edited March 31, 2019 by RDC1

[caribill]

8 hours ago, Fouremco said:

As a risk averse individual, I'm someone who always flies in a minimum of a day in advance, but I do understand why some people fly in the day of embarkation. I agree with you that HAL has no responsibility for problems experienced by those people and flight delays leading to them missing embarkation.  

 

If you use HAL to book your flights, they have flights that arrive on embarkation day, so I would think HAL has some responsibility since they sold you those flights.

[avian777]

10 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Doesn't the Contract of Carriage say that they can change ports at any time without notice?  Or, is something different for the Prisendam?

 

8 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

... The most recent HAL contract I can find states:

 

"Except as otherwise provided, Carrier may, for any reason, without prior notice, cancel the Cruise, Land + Sea Journey, and/or Land Trip(s); deviate from the scheduled ports of call, route and timetable; call or omit to call at any port or place or cancel or modify any activity on or off the ship; comply with all governmental laws and orders given by governmental authorities; render assistance to preserve life and property; or change the date or time of sailing or arrival, change the port of embarkation or disembarkation, shorten the Cruise, Land + Sea Journey and/or Land Trip(s), or substitute ships, aircraft or other transportation or lodging." (Emphasis mine).

 

Question (rhetorically) asked, question (definitively) answered!!!

[edgee]

7 hours ago, caribill said:

If you use HAL to book your flights, they have flights that arrive on embarkation day, so I would think HAL has some responsibility since they sold you those flights.

In these situations cruise lines sometimes hold the ship if enough people are delayed or they help you catch up to the ship at the next port. Sometimes this is possible...sometimes not. Even if they can and are willing to assist you getting to the next port to board the ship, part of cruise has been missed and you likely have gone through significant stress. That is why many cruisers who can afford the extra expense and time off from work fly in a day or more ahead of the cruise embarkation day.

[cat shepard]

12 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Doesn't the Contract of Carriage say that they can change ports at any time without notice?  Or, is something different for the Prisendam?

 

 

I do not believe anyone is disputing HAL’s right to change.

 

But if a company, which highlights and stresses its superior customer service, does not send out even an email when this type change is made, they are missing the mark and there is room for improvement. 

 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

11 minutes ago, cat shepard said:

 

 

I do not believe anyone is disputing HAL’s right to change.

 

But if a company, which highlights and stresses its superior customer service, does not send out even an email when this type change is made, they are missing the mark and there is room for improvement. 

 

 

 

We had a similar thing happen when Veendam went to Bermuda. The cruise was sold as a day docked in St Georges, with an overnight there and the ship would move to Hamilton the next morning. We booked early, so happy to have the 2-port cruise and go back to HAL.

 

Several months before we sailed--definitely outside final payment--I was looking at the cruise to see what the port arrival and departure times were. I saw the little tender icon by St Georges, so I called my TA to ask if we were really tendering at St Georges. She was sure we weren't but she called HAL. Then she called me back to say that it had been changed to a tender port, so no evening in St Georges, and no getting off there in the morning before leaving for Hamilton. HAL didn't bother to tell agents or passengers--not when they made the decision, not at final payment, not  until we were on board. Word got around on CC, but for people who don't lurk here, it was a surprise.

 

There was a legitimate reason. The aft changes to Veendam changed her in a way that wouldn't let her make the tight fit into St Georges. We were disappointed by the change, but they have to do what they have to do to be safe. I get that. But the lack of communication with so much lead time was inexcusable. 

 

Edited March 31, 2019 by 3rdGenCunarder

[slidergirl]

12 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

hi slidergirl

 

The most recent HAL contract I can find states:

 

"Except as otherwise provided, Carrier may, for any reason, without prior notice, cancel the Cruise, Land + Sea Journey, and/or Land Trip(s); deviate from the scheduled ports of call, route and timetable; call or omit to call at any port or place or cancel or modify any activity on or off the ship; comply with all governmental laws and orders given by governmental authorities; render assistance to preserve life and property; or change the date or time of sailing or arrival, change the port of embarkation or disembarkation, shorten the Cruise, Land + Sea Journey and/or Land Trip(s), or substitute ships, aircraft or other transportation or lodging." (Emphasis mine).

 

The word "prior" speaks volumes. No one is arguing that HAL doesn't have the right to make changes without prior communication. However, there is nothing that absolves HAL of communicating such changes after they are made.

 

To me, it makes sense for HAL to provide such info, and if airlines can provide notice to customers of changes in flight schedules of only a few minutes' difference, I don't think it imposes an unreasonable request.

 

 

 

 

Hi Cruisemom!

 

I was asking this because others usually get dumped on when they find out they are missing a port and are told to basically "suck it up because it happens."  I wondered if there was something different because of the last sailings of the Prisendam, probably filled with 4 and 5 star Mariners, that there was an exception to the Terms.   

 

I guess it's just a case of "Karma bites."  Sorry it's happening,  but the people are on a cruise on the Prisendam, enjoy the cruise as it happens.  

Edited March 31, 2019 by slidergirl

[Fouremco]

55 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

Hi Cruisemom!

 

I was asking this because others usually get dumped on when they find out they are missing a port and are told to basically "suck it up because it happens."  I wondered if there was something different because of the last sailings of the Prisendam, probably filled with 4 and 5 star Mariners, that there was an exception to the Terms.   

 

I guess it's just a case of "Karma bites."  Sorry it's happening,  but the people are on a cruise on the Prisendam, enjoy the cruise as it happens.  

In the vast majority of threads involving complaints about missed ports, the decision to miss a port is at the last minute and usually involves bad weather. So the "suck it up it happens" type of response is common and quite understandable.

 

The situation here, where a port change is made weeks before the cruise but HAL fails to notify anyone is quite different. It has nothing to do with the cruise being on the Prinsendam or the Mariner status of the passengers.

 

I have no idea why you would think that Karma has anything to do with this situation.