Outrageous contract terms on Seabourn

[BoatBoy12]

 

I  thought you might enjoy some of these simply outrageous terms from the Contract with Seabourn for our cruise. Of course, you can only see this contract once you have paid and registered for the cruise. (a contract of adhesion, if I remember? you have no real choice ). 

Seabourn is a Holland America line. It is a 'luxury line', where alcohol is included, as I have mentioned. So imagine my surprise with this first quote. I guess the alcohol is not part of the Cruise Fare per se, but is still included ?

And they give you about as much privacy as Facebook does !! and they claim they can use your photo in ads or anything else !

And, of course, any shore excursions, even ones they sell themselves, they simply deny any or all liability, including for delay !

 

-CONTRACT

 

The Cruise Fare does not include beer, wine, spirits, sodas or other bottled or specialty beverages, travel protection purchased through the booking process, or charges for other incidental items, activities, excursions, transportation or personal services during or in connection with the Cruise; or any Taxes, Fees, Port Expenses, airline or other carriers' services or baggage fees, for which a separate charge may be imposed.  

 

You agree Carrier has, at all times with or without notice, the right to enter and search Your stateroom, personal safe or storage spaces, or to search You, Your baggage and/or personal effects at any location. 

 

 (G) Excursions, Shoreside Services and Other Transportation : All travel facilities, tours, activities, products or services, other than aboard Carrier’ s vessels and tenders or motorcoaches, dayboats and/or railcars owned or operated by us, provided in connection with, before, after or during Your Cruise, Land Trip(s) and/or Air Package, including but not limited to pre and post cruise activities, shore excursions, hotel accommodations, meals, or transportation of any kind by any vessel, aircraft, or other conveyance, including, but not limited to, air travel to and from the ship (including travel on the airline(s) used in the Air Package), are provided, owned and/or operated by independent contractors whose employees, facilities, conveyances, products and services are not subject to Carrier's supervision or control. In providing or selling reservations or tickets in connection with any such activities, services or transportation or by accompanying You during such activities, Carrier does so as a convenience to Guests and shall be entitled to impose a charge and earn a profit from the sale of such excursions, services or transportation, but does not undertake to supervise or control such independent contractors or their employees, conveyances or facilities. Carrier accepts no liability for any loss, delay, damage, injury, death, misrepresentation arising from any excursion, service or transportation or any loss, delay or disappointment for any cancellations of any excursion, service or transportation including but not limited to air flight cancellation(s), errors in seat reservation, upgrade, overbooking or ticketing. Carrier makes no warranty, either express or implied, regarding the suitability, safety, insurance or other aspects of any such contractors, transportation, tours, services, products or facilities. Any liability for such services will be governed by this Cruise Contract and the contracts and/or tariffs between You and such service companies. You agree that, Carrier's liability, if any for Non-Performance of any independent contractor providing such facilities or services shall not exceed the amounts received for such facility or services by Carrier on Your behalf. Any company or person providing services or facilities of any kind in connection with a shore excursion or other activity offered for purchase by Carrier shall have the benefit of every defense to which Carrier is entitled under this Cruise Contract.

16. USE AND DISPLAY OF LIKENESS; PERSONAL DATA; PRIVACY NOTICE; PUBLIC WIRELESS SERVICES.

You grant Carrier and its licensees the right to use Your photograph/voice/indicia taken during Your Cruise and/or Land Trips in any fashion for any purpose in all media now known or hereafter devised without any limitations whatsoever. Professional photographers photograph Guests, process, display and sell such photos to You and other Guests. Carrier may utilize closed circuit television or other surveillance means on board the ship, including body cameras that record your image, voice and/or conduct at any time in the interests of safety and security. You agree You may provide personal data to Carrier that may include Your name, street or email address, date of birth, passport, financial account, and/or telephone numbers, likeness, photograph or other information which would identify You personally. You may also provide Carrier or others certain sensitive data such as Your health, medical condition, dietary or religious restrictions, gender or sexual orientation. You agree Carrier may (a) keep Your personal and sensitive data ("PSD"); (b) use it in its business worldwide in accordance with its privacy policies; (c) share it with Carrier's affiliated/related companies, and (d) subject it to processing worldwide provided Carrier's safeguards are used. You agree any PSD You provide to Carrier in the European Economic Area ("EEA") may be used, processed and transferred within and outside the EEA and specifically to the U.S.

You agree Carrier may disclose Your PSD to unaffiliated third parties: (a) after You request or authorize it; (b) to help complete a transaction for You; (c) to comply with law, applicable regulations, governmental and quasi-governmental requests, court orders or subpoenas; (d) to enforce this Cruise Contract or other agreements, or to protect the rights, property or safety of Carrier or others; (e) as part of a purchase, transfer or sale of services or assets (f) when provided to our agents, outside vendors or service providers to perform functions on our behalf; or (g) as described in Carrier's policies, as amended from time to time.

You expressly agree not to use any photograph, video recordings and other visual or audio portrayals of You and/or any other Guest in combination with crew or the ship, or depicting the ship, its design or equipment or any part thereof whatsoever for any commercial purpose or in any media broadcast or for any other non-private use, without the express written consent of Carrier.

 

 By using Wireless Services You agree Carrier may monitor, record, intercept and disclose any transmissions and may provide to others all information relating to all Wireless Services (e.g., billing, account, or use records), in its sole discretion or as required by law.  

Rev. January 2019  

(bolding is mine)

[broberts]

An internet search turned up https://www.seabourn.com/en_US/legal-privacy/cruise-contract.html as the first hit. I do not have a booking.

 

The contract is not materially different from most other cruise line contracts. Not that makes it a good thing. All these contracts are worded to favor the cruise line at the expense of the passenger.

[Isklaar]

On the Seabourn UK site the link to the contract and privacy policy is displayed clearly at the bottom of the home page.

No need to pay and register for the cruise, or even be logged in to My Seabourn. Anyone can view it.

Surprised it's not visible to Canadian users as OP states. 

 

 

[Catlover54]

It looks just like the Holland America contract, where alcohol and drinks are not included, but on SB you know they are by other representations. They use a one size fits all, less work.

[SKP946]

I went back and re-read the Passage Contract terms on the Seabourn (Australia) website after reading this post.

https://www.seabourn.com/en_US/legal-privacy-australia/cruise-contract.html

Interestingly it doesn’t include a lot of the wording quoted above by BoatBoy12, however I am fairly positive that the pre-cruise check-in (that insists that you scroll all the way to the bottom of the page, then tick accept) has a different (U.S.?) contract to the Australian site.

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by SKP946

[BoatBoy12]

I stand corrected! 

 I have been to the Seabourn site many times, and had never noticed that the contract is indeed available. I am surprised at my missing that, because I usually look at the very bottom (like I actually read the contracts!) Canadian users are directed to the US site automatically. Although several terms are objectionable, at least they do allow you to see them beforehand. Interesting that the Australian site is different; must be because of Aussie laws, because if Canada, at 10 million more people , does not get its' own website...how come ?

I figured that lazy lawyers had simply used a 'precedent' (cut and pasted) parts of the contract from the main HAL line, but really, does no one at the company/legal department proofread/review  their work? 

As for "other representations",  well.......

This Cruise Contract constitutes the entire understanding and agreement between You and Holland America Line N.V., the operator of the Seabourn brand ships,...

I KNOW what the other representations say all over the place, and just enjoyed reading the wine list(s), and do not have any concern, really, but it says what it says. 

Thank you all for the quick replies....btw, anyone know why the Roll Calls don't seem to be working ? 

[broberts]

The roll calls work, the Roll Call Finder tool does not. On the right (desktop version) of roll call forums is the following notice.

To find a roll call navigate to the appropriate ship and look for the departure date. Seabourn roll calls can be found at https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/535-seabourn-roll-calls/. DO NOT use the starred links, instead click on the bold line containing the ship name.

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by broberts

[rallydave]

16 hours ago, BoatBoy12 said:

I stand corrected! 

 I have been to the Seabourn site many times, and had never noticed that the contract is indeed available. I am surprised at my missing that, because I usually look at the very bottom (like I actually read the contracts!) Canadian users are directed to the US site automatically. Although several terms are objectionable, at least they do allow you to see them beforehand. Interesting that the Australian site is different; must be because of Aussie laws, because if Canada, at 10 million more people , does not get its' own website...how come ?

I figured that lazy lawyers had simply used a 'precedent' (cut and pasted) parts of the contract from the main HAL line, but really, does no one at the company/legal department proofread/review  their work? 

As for "other representations",  well.......

This Cruise Contract constitutes the entire understanding and agreement between You and Holland America Line N.V., the operator of the Seabourn brand ships,...

I KNOW what the other representations say all over the place, and just enjoyed reading the wine list(s), and do not have anybi concern, really, but it says what it says. 

Thank you all for the quick replies....btw, anyone know why the Roll Calls don't seem to be working ? 

As you enjoy reading Contracts as I do as I used to write multi-billionaire dollar contracts, you must know that it is always best to be the one writing the contract as you would naturally write it to favor yourself as Seabourn and probably all cruise lines do.

 

As others have said,  the objectionable clauses I have found in every cruise contract I have read and we have been on at least 10 different cruise lines including Seabourn.  It is truly amazing the number of people who have no clue what is in their cruise contract and believe that the cruise line is responsible for and will take care of any issues with third parties while that responsibility is removed in all contracts I have read.

[BoatBoy12]

Hi RallyDave

I said I read the contracts; I did not  say I enjoyed reading the contracts! In retirement, I enjoy having to read fewer of them ! lol

It had not occurred to me that anyone other than servants of the cruise line had written the contracts....certainly not any passengers!

Why I make sure to read them is because the first one I read about 20 years ago, which was for a cruise on the S.S. Norway (rip); actually said they did not warrant the seaworthiness of the vessel! I thought, yeah, that will stand up well if a bunch of Americans sue it in Miami, no matter what their contract says. 

My favourite mis-match was on the Princess contract. Like most lines, their bumpf , including the luggage tags you are supposed to print, says you are allowed to take aboard 2 bottles of wine. Their contract, however, said you are not allowed to take ANY alcohol. When I took a tag and a copy of the contract to the purser's office, he was totally flummoxed, and asked where I got that......well, every passenger on the ship clicks the box saying they've read it ! Strange that a ship's officer had never done so. After we discussed the separate documents, I told him that as a senior lawyer, my contract revision rate was $500/hr. He kind of blanched. He told me that on the Pacific Princess in Polynesia, where we were, they didn't really enforce it anyway, as it was a small ship; and unless they felt a need to, they didn't bother. After shopping at a wine shop in Papeete, I saw why.  As the shop clerk explained: 3 months on a ship and heavy taxes make their pricing radically different than France. 

Anyone I mention this next one to are usually surprised, as they don't read their cabin manual either. But on Princess, you can order a half-bottle of liquor at prices that may seem harsh to Americans, but to Canadians and Aussies are quite reasonable, and at any rate are much less than the ship bar prices. 

It's all good sport; but if some idiot starts searching people's belongings indiscriminately, or using people's children in advertisement photos, or monitoring their messages, there will be a price to pay. Arguably, it would be wiser to write in clauses that call for 'upon reasonable and articulable cause' etc. Not difficult; and long standing maritime law makes the Master of the Ship the boss. 

You are right that most, if not all, contracts say they will not necessarily wait for you if a tour is late. It may be likely that if they have a bus full of passengers, they might do so; but no guarantee. Also quite ironic now that private tour companies advertise that they DO guarantee to get you to the shop on time. 

[BoatBoy12]

Hi broberts

Yes, I know you can search for one; but you can't start one and get it added to the tool, as they state. Unfortunate, since they have been useful over the years. Then again, the smaller the ship, the less useful. 

Cheers

 

[broberts]

21 minutes ago, BoatBoy12 said:

Hi broberts

Yes, I know you can search for one; but you can't start one and get it added to the tool, as they state. Unfortunate, since they have been useful over the years. Then again, the smaller the ship, the less useful. 

Cheers

 

 

The roll call tool does not work. If functions improperly. It provides incorrect results. It is not ready for prime time. Why CC insists on keeping links to it is beyond me as it can produce misleading result. As far as I know it has never worked.

[SLSD]

BoatBoy12, It's not lazy lawyers, it's a company that does not want to pay lawyers to do more work...

 

Broberts, you are right about the roll call link. It takes a bit of looking around to find the right place.  Sometimes it is just too much of a hassle if you are in a hurry. 

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by SLSD

[Robisan]

On 4/19/2019 at 2:23 PM, BoatBoy12 said:

You expressly agree not to use any photograph, video recordings and other visual or audio portrayals of You and/or any other Guest in combination with crew or the ship, or depicting the ship, its design or equipment or any part thereof whatsoever for any commercial purpose or in any media broadcast or for any other non-private use, without the express written consent of Carrier.

 

This would appear to prohibit PAX photos and videos showing "any part ... whatsoever" of the ship being publicly posted to Instagram, Youtube, Internet blogs etc. Or even posted here on CC!

[BoatBoy12]

Robisan.....

Wow! I hadn't even noticed that one. I think you are right...imagine; all that potential good publicity forbidden! 

[raphael360]

I've taken over 35 cruises on 5 different cruise lines (many on Seabourn) and I don't remember having an issue where the contract came into play.

 

With that said, don't forget to read your entire iPhone or iPad contract the next time you update your device.  While apple doesn't specifically exclude beer and wine, by checking "I ACCEPT" you're giving up all of your rights to privacy. LOL

[TT1992]

Oops posted to wrong thread

Edited June 12, 2019 by TT1992
Wro g thread