Do all restaurants have sommeliers?

[Bo1953]

3 hours ago, zitsky said:

 

Great experience!   Were you ordering bottles for the table or by the glass?

 

So I understand I should be able to order whatever and there is an upcharge. 

We were ordering by the glass...

 

Yes, you should be able to order whatever is readily available. If there is something you want and it is not available that evening, request it for the next.

 

And, there will be an up-charge, let the wine steward know in advance that you understand and accept it.

 

Cheers and bon voyage

[George C]

We almost always pay a small up charge for our wine by the glass , just a couple of dollars, since we get drink package it doesn’t pay to buy bottles. We also bring two bottles but they will charge 25 dollar corkage fee. Last year we brought a nice bottle to luminae either Silverado or Stags leap sommelier asked if he could taste it and did not charge corkage. 

[K12Guy]

1 hour ago, George C said:

In most restaurants about that, about 70 in a wine store. 

If you have access to Total Wine stores you should be able to find 1858, which is a Cabernet Sauvignon bottled by the Wagner Family winery exclusively for Total Wine. They resource grapes from Paso Robles and Napa for the wine. The Paso Robles bottle will sell for less than the Napa, however they are both tasty cabs and an affordable substitute for Caymus, should anyone care to give them a try. totalwine dot com

[lovecruzin]

8 hours ago, zitsky said:

Fair enough.  I would use the to know what to avoid, for example northern California wines from east bay or to find wines from places I do like, Paso Robles, Willamette Valley, Walla Walla most of Europe.  Is that expecting too much?

 

I think many of them onboard would not know the difference between East Bay or Paso. As they have never been to CA and are unaware of the different climates, etc...There are some good wines that come from Livermore though!

One way we can usually tell how knowledgeable they are, is by asking what region the grapes are from. If they look at the back of the bottle and tell me where it was bottled we know that even “wine steward” is a generous title!

Edited July 13, 2019 by lovecruzin

[zitsky]

1 hour ago, K12Guy said:

If you have access to Total Wine stores you should be able to find 1858, which is a Cabernet Sauvignon bottled by the Wagner Family winery exclusively for Total Wine. They resource grapes from Paso Robles and Napa for the wine. The Paso Robles bottle will sell for less than the Napa, however they are both tasty cabs and an affordable substitute for Caymus, should anyone care to give them a try. totalwine dot com

 

Wow!  Thank you!

[NCteacherlovescruising]

1 hour ago, K12Guy said:

If you have access to Total Wine stores you should be able to find 1858, which is a Cabernet Sauvignon bottled by the Wagner Family winery exclusively for Total Wine. They resource grapes from Paso Robles and Napa for the wine. The Paso Robles bottle will sell for less than the Napa, however they are both tasty cabs and an affordable substitute for Caymus, should anyone care to give them a try. totalwine dot com

 

I agree the 1858 is quite good!  We much prefer the Napa over the Paso Robles. 

[NCteacherlovescruising]

3 hours ago, zitsky said:

 

I would love to try Caymus but isn't it about $150 a bottle?

 

Caymus no, about $75 or so. Caymus Special Selection, which is much better runs around $159-179 depending on the year and where you purchase. 

[cangelmd]

The amount of training and experience of the “sommeliers” is quite variable. In the old days, they were predominantly European, from countries that produce and drink wine (mostly Eastern Europe). We met a rarity on the Silhouette- an young American man working as a sommelier, getting experience in large restaurant/hotel service. He wanted to become a “real” sommelier, but needed experience to get into a higher end restaurant in say California.

Still better than RCCL, we had a wine steward in the MDR who couldn’t open a bottle of champagne.

[George C]

4 hours ago, K12Guy said:

If you have access to Total Wine stores you should be able to find 1858, which is a Cabernet Sauvignon bottled by the Wagner Family winery exclusively for Total Wine. They resource grapes from Paso Robles and Napa for the wine. The Paso Robles bottle will sell for less than the Napa, however they are both tasty cabs and an affordable substitute for Caymus, should anyone care to give them a try. totalwine dot com

I go to total wine at least a couple of times a month will try 1858 , normally not that crazy over Paso Robles , but like almost everything from Napa . 

[chemmo]

I really think a lot depends on the ‘enthusiasm’ of the wine waiter/sommelier as well as his knowledge and experience. 

 

We are not wine buffs at all and at home stick to varieties and labels we know. When cruising we love to put ourselves in the hands of the waiter and go for recommendations. For the last several cruises we have done this, always a good experience. I would add we dine mainly in the speciality restaurants. 

 

Last cruise on Eclipse, however, our experience reached a new high. As usual we dined in Murano’s on several occasions. The wine waiter/sommelier was simply wonderful. He came over to us after we had ordered and discussed with us possible recommendations. He described possible options  and then would come back with a variety of bottles for us to try...He made us feel very special, he genuinely seemed to wanted us to have the best experience possible! We tried many different wines on our visits, many not on any list. He popped back and forward unobtrusively during our meal to check if we needed topping up, were still happy with our choices. Our only worry is we will now always compare other wine waiters/sommeliers to this truly special one who really did elevate service levels. We have done wine paring meal experiences on cruise ships and in quality restaurants in both the USA and the UK but none of them have been as enjoyable as our Murano’s experiences last cruise.

 

 

[Fixit2010]

Sheesh !!! Those Somalies make good wine waters.

[K12Guy]

12 hours ago, George C said:

I go to total wine at least a couple of times a month will try 1858 , normally not that crazy over Paso Robles , but like almost everything from Napa . 

Darn. It appears my little secret is out. Enjoy! When 1858 first came out the shelves were emptied almost immediately and it was months before they got another shipment. I think they are able to keep up now, however. As Tami said, the Napa grapes may be a bit better taste, more body and maybe a bit smoother. Not quite Caymus, but a very good steak or sipping wine, regardless.

 

[George C]

12 minutes ago, K12Guy said:

Darn. It appears my little secret is out. Enjoy! When 1858 first came out the shelves were emptied almost immediately and it was months before they got another shipment. I think they are able to keep up now, however. As Tami said, the Napa grapes may be a bit better taste, more body and maybe a bit smoother. Not quite Caymus, but a very good steak or sipping wine, regardless.

 

That does not look like a bargain total wine list 1898 Napa at 69 just 10 dollars cheaper than caymus, will stick with Silverado or stags leap for half that price. 

[K12Guy]

9 hours ago, chemmo said:

I really think a lot depends on the ‘enthusiasm’ of the wine waiter/sommelier as well as his knowledge and experience. 

We have done wine paring meal experiences on cruise ships and in quality restaurants in both the USA and the UK but none of them have been as enjoyable as our Murano’s experiences last cruise. 

 

 

You make some good points and it's been my observation that you folks sail a lot like my loving bride and I. Mostly Royal, when it works out and occasionally an S1 for whatever reason. We have no interest in shorting ourselves for the future benefit of our children, who will be just fine.

 

Anyway, I have observed three levels of wine servers on cruises, across several companies and ships of various sizes.

 

(1) The Pourer. [TP]This person brings a bottle of something that you have told him/her you want. If it's corked you may have to help him/her remove the cork, lest the contents be spilled when the cork pulls out suddenly and the pourer falls to the floor. But, the Pourer is learning and may actually want to do more than just pour, therefore we need to be patient. If the wine is white we will probably have to ask that it be stored in a chiller or ice bucket.

 

(2) The Wine Steward. [WS] This person is an experienced pourer and has learned through trial and error and can open a corked bottle table-side without spilling a drop. He/she can even pour a glass with only a small amount spilled. WS has learned the wine menu inventory along the way and knows the difference now between a cabernet sauvignon and petit syrah and will not pair reisling with lemon chicken. WS may actually find a special bottle of wine for a special occasion, as well. WS tries hard and is thinking about one day being trained as a Sommelier.

 

(3) Sommelier 1 [S1] This person has attended training and is certified as a level 1 Sommelier and is working toward the next level, visiting every winery possible on every stop at every port in the world. S1 actually knows all of what TP and WS know, plus more, and has access to bottles of wine not normally offered. Treat the S1 well and you just might benefit by getting a wine that even YOU have no idea about. S1 strives to do everything he/she can for those who take the time to listen and learn and who really care about him/her as a person, and not just a 'server' on a cruise ship.

[phoenix_dream]

16 hours ago, NCteacherlovescruising said:

 

Caymus no, about $75 or so. Caymus Special Selection, which is much better runs around $159-179 depending on the year and where you purchase. 

Those are unfortunately out of my league.  But my favorite more reasonably priced wine is Conundrum, by Caymus.  We usually can get it on the Premium Beverage package.  Not a cab, but a very smooth, fruity, full-bodied red blend.  Many who like cabs should like this one.  Not sure of the onboard cost, but can find it in stores between $20 and $25.  Going to Napa this fall and going to go to the Caymus vineyard, where the tastings include Caymus.  Can't wait. 

 

ps - learned about this wine from an excellent wine steward we came to know from sailing in AQ.  He's been on several sailings with us on various ships.  There are some great ones onboard!

[K12Guy]

23 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

But my favorite more reasonably priced wine is Conundrum

Conundrum is a very good sipping wine and because it's available as a white blend, red blend, and rose the label can be paired with pretty much anything for lunch or dinner.

 

Our sommelier on Eclipse (Yan) a couple years ago introduced me to Mer Soleil, a very good Chardonnay, and a Pinot Noir under the same label. I've not had the Pinot Noir, but will assume it's also tasty. Each cruise brings new wine adventures for us. Unfortunately Yan is currently on Equinox and our next sailing in August will be Eclipse. Unless we can somehow get Yan transferred. She is the best of the best, in my opinion.

 

Qualifying statement: I am not a wine expert by any means. I am, however, a fan of drinking different wines and discovering how they work with food pairings. My opinion is  nothing more than that. I leave expert stuff up to the experts at wineries.

Edited July 14, 2019 by K12Guy
typo

[NCteacherlovescruising]

30 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

Those are unfortunately out of my league.  But my favorite more reasonably priced wine is Conundrum, by Caymus.  We usually can get it on the Premium Beverage package.  Not a cab, but a very smooth, fruity, full-bodied red blend.  Many who like cabs should like this one.  Not sure of the onboard cost, but can find it in stores between $20 and $25.  Going to Napa this fall and going to go to the Caymus vineyard, where the tastings include Caymus.  Can't wait. 

 

ps - learned about this wine from an excellent wine steward we came to know from sailing in AQ.  He's been on several sailings with us on various ships.  There are some great ones onboard!

 

It's certainly not our every day wine, but we do enjoy it on special occasions or when we are just being irresponsible with our money.  Total Wine carries an excellent cab for around $30 called Seven Rings.  We also enjoy Molly Dooker's Scooter, which is a Merlot and their Two Left Feet, which is a Shiraz blend,  in the 20's at Total Wine.  They also have a nice variety of good French red wines in that price range.   It's difficult on ships to find a descent cab in the packages so we tend to drink more cocktails while cruising and just have wine with dinner.

25 minutes ago, K12Guy said:

Our sommelier on Eclipse (Yan) a couple years ago introduced me to Mer Soleil, a very good Chardonnay, and a Pinot Noir under the same label. I've not had the Pinot Noir, but will assume it's also tasty. Each cruise brings new wine adventures for us. Unfortunately Yan is currently on Equinox and our next sailing in August will be Eclipse. Unless we can somehow get Yan transferred. She is the best of the best, in my opinion.

 

 

That reminds me, another thing we do while cruising we don't do much of at home is drink white wines.  We are really red wine drinkers, as such I'm not nearly as picky when it comes to whites, as long as they are dry.  

[zitsky]

How do you know when you're dealing with a real sommelier?  Is there a secret handshake?

[markeb]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

How do you know when you're dealing with a real sommelier?  Is there a secret handshake?

 

In the real world, at least in North America, there's a pin on the lapel...

 

 

That's a certified sommelier. An advanced sommelier has one of these

 

 

That's the highest I'd ever expect to see on a ship, and it wouldn't be your basic wine steward.

 

If you see one of these

 

 

They probably designed the wine list. There have only been something like 236 Master Sommelier certificates awarded...

[chemmo]

2 hours ago, K12Guy said:

You make some good points and it's been my observation that you folks sail a lot like my loving bride and I. Mostly Royal, when it works out and occasionally an S1 for whatever reason. We have no interest in shorting ourselves for the future benefit of our children, who will be just fine.

 

Anyway, I have observed three levels of wine servers on cruises, across several companies and ships of various sizes.

 

(1) The Pourer. [TP]This person brings a bottle of something that you have told him/her you want. If it's corked you may have to help him/her remove the cork, lest the contents be spilled when the cork pulls out suddenly and the pourer falls to the floor. But, the Pourer is learning and may actually want to do more than just pour, therefore we need to be patient. If the wine is white we will probably have to ask that it be stored in a chiller or ice bucket.

 

(2) The Wine Steward. [WS] This person is an experienced pourer and has learned through trial and error and can open a corked bottle table-side without spilling a drop. He/she can even pour a glass with only a small amount spilled. WS has learned the wine menu inventory along the way and knows the difference now between a cabernet sauvignon and petit syrah and will not pair reisling with lemon chicken. WS may actually find a special bottle of wine for a special occasion, as well. WS tries hard and is thinking about one day being trained as a Sommelier.

 

(3) Sommelier 1 [S1] This person has attended training and is certified as a level 1 Sommelier and is working toward the next level, visiting every winery possible on every stop at every port in the world. S1 actually knows all of what TP and WS know, plus more, and has access to bottles of wine not normally offered. Treat the S1 well and you just might benefit by getting a wine that even YOU have no idea about. S1 strives to do everything he/she can for those who take the time to listen and learn and who really care about him/her as a person, and not just a 'server' on a cruise ship.

 

You are right we do cruise a lot and enjoy....RS are always wonderful. Our son cruises with us often to ensure he gets some advantage from our SKI (spend kids inheritance) holidays!

 

I am unsure about the training level of the wine steward/sommelier we had in Murano’s on Eclipse but  it definitely was that ‘attention to detail’ and personal interest that made our experience so special.

 

[julia]

While on Eclipse recently, we spent a great deal of time in Cellar Masters, enjoying our premium package, and getting to know Sommelier Esteban.  He was very knowledgeable and interesting.  We'd stop in for a pre-dinner glass (or two), and usually carried a glass into the MDR with us.  Our wine steward was outstanding, and he took very good care of us throughout dinner.  It was a highlight of that cruise.

[DENIE]

Our last cruise on the Silhouette, we probably had a "wine steward" serving us.  Since we had the premium beverage package, and like to pair wines with our entree, we asked to speak to him.  After a couple meals, he seemed to know our preferences, and always had a quick recommendation based on our entree choice.  We felt he did a really good job!  He was busy, for sure, but did not make us feel rushed, and checked on us often to top off glasses.  Also made a couple recommendations of a good dessert wine when we were up for it.

[Dom G]

I’m on Equinox now too. The two “sommeliers” I have met the last two nights have been very attentive, but both lacked basic wine knowledge and knew little about the wines they were serving. Same on other past cruises. They may be good for people with 0 wine knowledge, but not for regular wine drinkers.

 

 

[zitsky]

8 minutes ago, Dom G said:

I’m on Equinox now too. The two “sommeliers” I have met the last two nights have been very attentive, but both lacked basic wine knowledge and knew little about the wines they were serving. Same on other past cruises. They may be good for people with 0 wine knowledge, but not for regular wine drinkers.

 

 

 

  😞

[Dom G]

On 7/14/2019 at 3:21 PM, markeb said:

 

In the real world, at least in North America, there's a pin on the lapel...

 

 

That's a certified sommelier. An advanced sommelier has one of these

 

 

That's the highest I'd ever expect to see on a ship, and it wouldn't be your basic wine steward.

 

If you see one of these

 

 

They probably designed the wine list. There have only been something like 236 Master Sommelier certificates awarded...

 

You won’t find these on ships because wine purchases are done by someone in the corporate office. Generally, the corporate lists are bid on by wine suppliers national accounts team (or a wine broker who specializes in cruises) and they will have annual contracts. So you’ll see a few parent brands that have many placements on one cruise line. I’m on the Equinox now and see a lot of Kendall-Jackson, Banfi and Antinori brands- both under their flagship label and umbrella brands. A certified sommelier would build their own list, run the restaurant wine program, train the staff, order and inventory the wines and several other duties. They wouldn’t want to work in a restaurant where they would have no input on the wines carried.  The ship “sommeliers” are there to steer people to something they will like, nothing more.  I’d call them more of a wine concierge for people with little wine knowledge.   

 

I say all this as a 25 year wine industry professional. I work for a Napa producer/fine wine importer. We have many of our wines on NCL now and have had a long running program with RC.