#crewupwithwomen

[bonedoc7]

Love this initiative!  Love the hash tag as well! My husband has started a similar initiative in Toronto, not the same field, but Orthopaedics has the worst gender diversity in all of medicine, and as chair in Toronto wants to change this.  He has started “women in orthopaedics” an annual dinner/workshop geared towards female medical students to introduce them to orthopaedics and potential female mentors.  Despite the fact that women comprise of over 50% of the medical school class, only 5% of orthopaedics surgeons are women.

 

[BNBR]

I'm more curious in the "how" this is happening with Celebrity.  Because an initiative to promote hiring of one gender over another certainly sounds like discrimination to me.  How has that become normalized and applauded?

 

However, in your husbands case, it sounds like more of an initiative to get women in the industry.  Which makes a lot of sense.  I like that.  But the X CEO is talking more about direct hiring and "diversifying the teams" which is extremely discriminatory and flat out illegal as gender is a protected class - as it should be.

[ipeeinthepool]

I agree 100%.  People need to understand the reverse discrimination is still discrimination.

[Mojogurued]

If there are 20 men and 2 women already hired for a job, and 30 men and 10 women qualified for a promotion, this type of thinking will promote the 10 women first. Those 30 men are going to be punished for their sex and have to go to a different company with Celebrity getting all the glory.

[Highpeaklad]

Usually this type of scheme is more about encouraging women into roles by getting more women to apply by making it more appealing to them so by natural process the numbers increase. 

[Highpeaklad]

6 hours ago, Mojogurued said:

If there are 20 men and 2 women already hired for a job, and 30 men and 10 women qualified for a promotion, this type of thinking will promote the 10 women first. Those 30 men are going to be punished for their sex and have to go to a different company with Celebrity getting all the glory.

 

But the fact that there are 20 men to 2 women hired means that it’s likely the women have been discriminated against. No one wants to discriminate against men but there should be steps taken to level the playing field without directly discriminating. 

[Ehg]

16 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

I agree 100%.  People need to understand the reverse discrimination is still discrimination.

I am a woman and I would hate to think that I secured a job just because I am female rather than because I was the best person for the job.

All positions should be filled based on meritocracy. It's ridiculous. #justsaying

[ipeeinthepool]

38 minutes ago, Ehg said:

I am a woman and I would hate to think that I secured a job just because I am female rather than because I was the best person for the job.

 

I agree 100%.  This is true if you are a man or woman.  Anyone that is hired or promoted wants to believe that they were the most qualified person for the job.  As long as there are systems in place that discriminate, there will always be the question, is that person the most qualified for the job.  

[BNBR]

On 8/7/2019 at 3:44 AM, Highpeaklad said:

 

But the fact that there are 20 men to 2 women hired means that it’s likely the women have been discriminated against. No one wants to discriminate against men but there should be steps taken to level the playing field without directly discriminating. 

 

That's not what that means, at all.  It means more men find the job appealing.  Like crab fishing, taxi drivers, construction, etc.  Also consider the demographic of the employees on a cruise ship.  Many of them are men who have a wife and kids at home.  Do you think you are helping the woman by providing her husband a job so he can support his wife and kids?  Go ask a the wife of an unemployed worker if she is happy a woman got the job instead of her husband simply because the cruise line gives hiring preference to women...

 

Ultimately, this is all beside the point.  Why is this even a "thing" to begin with?  Is Celebrity admitting to gender discrimination when they hired men?  Did they intentionally bypass women?  Is this documented?  Let's hear it.  If they aren't admitting to that, then they are saying that they merely hired the best person for the job.  Is Celebrity going to admit that it wasn't a level playing field and that they were intentionally hiring men instead of women?  I doubt it.  They probably just hired the right people based on who was applying.  And their talent pools are almost certainly a majority men as that's the culture in those countries.  Of course, they are now admitting to gender discrimination (which hurts women) by giving preferential treatment based on gender.  It's a very backwards and divisive way of thinking and we need a heck of a lot less of that right now.

[BNBR]

On 8/7/2019 at 5:14 AM, ipeeinthepool said:

 

I agree 100%.  This is true if you are a man or woman.  Anyone that is hired or promoted wants to believe that they were the most qualified person for the job.  As long as there are systems in place that discriminate, there will always be the question, is that person the most qualified for the job.  

 

I agree.  And I'd like the CEO to explain to us what system was in place that discriminated against women prior to this initiative and be thorough.  Also, is the women representation on Celebrity ships previously indicative of the application pool?  Meaning, what percentage of qualified applicants were women at this time?  If women made up 50% of the applicants and 5% of the workforce, then of course this implies an issue.

[Highpeaklad]

40 minutes ago, BNBR said:

 

That's not what that means, at all.  It means more men find the job appealing.  Like crab fishing, taxi drivers, construction, etc.  Also consider the demographic of the employees on a cruise ship.  Many of them are men who have a wife and kids at home.  Do you think you are helping the woman by providing her husband a job so he can support his wife and kids?  Go ask a the wife of an unemployed worker if she is happy a woman got the job instead of her husband simply because the cruise line gives hiring preference to women...

 

Ultimately, this is all beside the point.  Why is this even a "thing" to begin with?  Is Celebrity admitting to gender discrimination when they hired men?  Did they intentionally bypass women?  Is this documented?  Let's hear it.  If they aren't admitting to that, then they are saying that they merely hired the best person for the job.  Is Celebrity going to admit that it wasn't a level playing field and that they were intentionally hiring men instead of women?  I doubt it.  They probably just hired the right people based on who was applying.  And their talent pools are almost certainly a majority men as that's the culture in those countries.  Of course, they are now admitting to gender discrimination (which hurts women) by giving preferential treatment based on gender.  It's a very backwards and divisive way of thinking and we need a heck of a lot less of that right now.

 

Why can’t the man stay at home to look after the kids? If the woman is going to be able to earn more money why can’t she go to work?

 

A lot of this comes from attitudes and practices from years ago when a woman had to give up work when she was married or was simply not allowed to do certain jobs. 

 

No one wants anyone employed because of their gender, but if there is gender imbalance then we all need to question why to see if we are missing out on more able candidates. 

 

We  live in the 21st century everyone should have the opportunity to do any job regardless of gender. 

[BNBR]

1 minute ago, Highpeaklad said:

 

Why can’t the man stay at home to look after the kids? If the woman is going to be able to earn more money why can’t she go to work?

 

A lot of this comes from attitudes and practices from years ago when a woman had to give up work when she was married or was simply not allowed to do certain jobs. 

 

No one wants anyone employed because of their gender, but if there is gender imbalance then we all need to question why to see if we are missing out on more able candidates. 

 

We  live in the 21st century everyone should have the opportunity to do any job regardless of gender. 

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with recognizing nature and why we have traditional gender roles. While these roles are often reversed, and I fully support that, it's not wrong to appreciate our differences and embrace them, too. 

 

An imbalance in certain types of jobs is healthy. Most teachers are women, for example. I don't blame this on discrimination, though. It's because its the type of position that women tend to find more appealing.  It's a problem when there is ACTUAL discrimination. An imbalance doesn't suggest actual discrimination.  It just means it's a position that more women or men happen to find appealing. 

 

So if we are to have this initiative, is it due to actual discrimination that occured at Celebrity?  Are they giving preference to someone based on gender or merely fixing the issue by hiring the best candidates for the job which properly reflects the amount of qualified women applying?  

 

If 25% of qualified applicants are women, and try are about 25% represented, then this should be applauded.  If it's 5% of applicants and they represent 25% of the workforce, then it suggests actual illegal gender discrimination. I'm hoping it's the former. 

[screwsmcernst]

It's just me, but I would prefer they hire the best person for the job.  Hiring a woman to fill a position because she is a woman over a man who is more qualified is bad business practices.  The company will ultimately suffer.  Tuck the "Over-feminism" back in, and hire the most qualified, no matter what the gender is.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

16 hours ago, screwsmcernst said:

It's just me, but I would prefer they hire the best person for the job.  Hiring a woman to fill a position because she is a woman over a man who is more qualified is bad business practices.  The company will ultimately suffer.  Tuck the "Over-feminism" back in, and hire the most qualified, no matter what the gender is.

 

I agree.

 

If Celebrity, or RCCL as a whole, have committed discrimination in the past, I would like to see a public apology, and for those women to be honored or compensated in some way.

 

If discrimination did not take place, such as fewer women having sought these careers in the past, then we should respect women's choice then, just as much as we do now.  Artificially holding one sex back, to prop up numbers of the other, ends with inferior expectations, exactly the opposite of equality. 

 

[johnjen]

While I support equality for both sexes, I had to read this to confirm my suspicions. Yes, this initiative is rather discriminatory and if I worked for Celebrity, I'd be worried about my job position as well.

[warmwinds]

To throw another monkey wrench into the equation...what if a white woman and woman of color are up for the same position...

 

I also agree it should be based on merit.

 

Would you want a doctor who was only hired because of their gender/race?

[Lisa Lutoff-Perlo]

Hi everyone, We are so proud of our efforts in this area in the last four years.  It started with the appointment of Captain Kate and has continued ever since.  We have raised the men/women ratio on the bridge from 3% to 22% with everyone's support.  We want to attract women into the maritime industry and with all of the new ships coming into the cruise space, there are plenty of opportunities!  We have found that there are many misconceptions by women in maritime about working onboard cruise ships, and we are trying to change that perception and encourage qualified candidates to apply.  This initiative has not only affected the female crew enthusiasm onboard, but also the men.  I can't tell you how many male Captains and officers have told me that it has made them better at what they do and great to have role models to their daughters.  We will keep going in this direction and I am so proud of our team! Thank you for your ongoing support! llp...