QM2 World Cruise Itinerary - thoughts?

[Captain_Morgan]

Let me preface this by acknowledging that the upcoming World Cruise onboard QM2 is still months away (departing Southampton January 10, 2020) and anything can change between now and then....

 

That being said, I can't help but notice the current itinerary has the ship transiting the Red Sea where an Iranian oil tanker was recently fired upon, and of course the overnight stop in Dubai despite the entire winter itinerary for P&O's Oceana being altered to remove it from the area.  

 

I completely acknowledge that anything can happen anywhere in the world at any time, but what are the thoughts when comparing the total alteration of a ship's itinerary due to the tensions in the region, yet keeping arguably one of the most famous ships in the world transiting a high tension area (Red Sea & Bab el Mandeb) as well as the Straits of Hormuz?

 

Not meant to be inflammatory, just thinking aloud and interested in mixed opinions

[exlondoner]

2 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Let me preface this by acknowledging that the upcoming World Cruise onboard QM2 is still months away (departing Southampton January 10, 2020) and anything can change between now and then....

 

That being said, I can't help but notice the current itinerary has the ship transiting the Red Sea where an Iranian oil tanker was recently fired upon, and of course the overnight stop in Dubai despite the entire winter itinerary for P&O's Oceana being altered to remove it from the area.  

 

I completely acknowledge that anything can happen anywhere in the world at any time, but what are the thoughts when comparing the total alteration of a ship's itinerary due to the tensions in the region, yet keeping arguably one of the most famous ships in the world transiting a high tension area (Red Sea & Bab el Mandeb) as well as the Straits of Hormuz?

 

Not meant to be inflammatory, just thinking aloud and interested in mixed opinions

 

Presumably, Cunard would be wary of putting their flagship in the least danger. Or they could be plotting a major insurance scan, which it is probably libellous so much as to,  suggest, so I'm not.

[BigMac1953]

Cunard, for many years has had a close relationship with the Royal Navy. It is not unknown for the ships to be used for exercises especially when heading for dry dock without pax.

 

It's also not unknown for SBS operatives to join the ships in pirate waters.

 

There is no way any Cunard ship is going to be allowed to sail unescorted in dangerous waters.

Edited October 17, 2019 by BigMac1953

[newjoisey]

Could be a great money making on board excursion.......manning deck guns to repel pirates ....i'm in  

[Captain_Morgan]

1 hour ago, BigMac1953 said:

Cunard, for many years has had a close relationship with the Royal Navy. It is not unknown for the ships to be used for exercises especially when heading for dry dock without pax.

 

It's also not unknown for SBS operatives to join the ships in pirate waters.

 

There is no way any Cunard ship is going to be allowed to sail unescorted in dangerous waters.

 

I have no doubt that the military is in close consultation, but I have a hard time envisioning a full navy escort through the areas in question, not to mention the fact that any armed personnel onboard would surely do little to thwart an act of aggression coming from a land based source

 

5 minutes ago, newjoisey said:

Could be a great money making on board excursion.......manning deck guns to repel pirates ....i'm in  

 

If only that were the case, but the truth of the matter is the issue is less about pirates and more about missiles and hostile governments... 

[princeton123211]

6 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

yet keeping arguably one of the most famous ships in the world transiting a high tension area (Red Sea & Bab el Mandeb) as well as the Straits of Hormuz?

She's also one of the fastest commercial ships out there so theres that. Pirates go after cargo/tanker ships with low slung decks that are slow and have as little crew/passengers onboard as possible. QM2's nearest accessible deck to the water is prohibitively high, she's extremely fast for a girl her size, and she's full of thousands of people-- not really a good target.

 

Hostile foreign governments, in all likelihood, wouldn't fire on a passenger ship like that because it would start a war. Firing on lightly crewed tankers doesn't warrant the same response.

 

[Mickb]

Hope those are not famous last words! Getting such a high profile target would be a major coup for a number of disaffected Middle Eastern radicals!

[Captain_Morgan]

2 hours ago, princeton123211 said:

She's also one of the fastest commercial ships out there so theres that. Pirates go after cargo/tanker ships with low slung decks that are slow and have as little crew/passengers onboard as possible. QM2's nearest accessible deck to the water is prohibitively high, she's extremely fast for a girl her size, and she's full of thousands of people-- not really a good target.

 

Hostile foreign governments, in all likelihood, wouldn't fire on a passenger ship like that because it would start a war. Firing on lightly crewed tankers doesn't warrant the same response.

 

she’s no doubt fast through the water with a high freeboard which is why the concept of modern day piracy was not mentioned in my original post, although it's no doubt been the topic of choice when discussing the area in question over recent years...

 

my concern is less about a deliberate attack and more about collateral damage, or even a claim of mistaken identity.   If the sister company removes a vessel from the area entirely for the whole winter season, months in advance I’d be surprised if they’re not paying close attention to any and all company vessels due to transit...

[princeton123211]

8 minutes ago, Captain_Morgan said:

If the sister company removes a vessel from the area entirely for the whole winter season, months in advance I’d be surprised if they’re not paying close attention to any and all company vessels due to transit...

I get the impression that the P&O decision was more money driven than safety driven-- if theres an impression that an area is unsafe (even if it would be perfectly safe to operate a ship there), there will be less paying customers willing to go there. Thats a big commercial gamble to try and fill a ship several times over given the uncertainty in the region.  

 

Even if it were for safety reasons, QM2 is going to sail through once vs operate there for an extended period. If you drive your nice car through a bad area of town once there is a very small chance you would get into trouble vs commuting through that same part of town everyday at regular intervals. 

[newjoisey]

if you are that worried about a smak n jac of the ship get off before this segment then re-join in a safer port . 

 

[tv24]

I think Cunard would be very careful and re-route the World Cruise if the situation gets very hot.

[frantic36]

We will be on a Seabourn cruise in December that starts in Dubai going to Singapore and transits the Strait of Hormuz so we have been watching the news. I think all cruise companies will be keeping a watch on development and am trusting they have plans in place for any changes required.

 

I agree with princeton123211 that the P&O decision to cancel was due to the fact the ship they cancelled was based in the area doing multiple sailings. So if things had to be cancelled it would be multiple cruises not just one cruise or a segment of a cruise.

[sogne]

10 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Let me preface this by acknowledging that the upcoming World Cruise onboard QM2 is still months away (departing Southampton January 10, 2020) and anything can change between now and then....

 

That being said, I can't help but notice the current itinerary has the ship transiting the Red Sea where an Iranian oil tanker was recently fired upon, and of course the overnight stop in Dubai despite the entire winter itinerary for P&O's Oceana being altered to remove it from the area.  

 

I completely acknowledge that anything can happen anywhere in the world at any time, but what are the thoughts when comparing the total alteration of a ship's itinerary due to the tensions in the region, yet keeping arguably one of the most famous ships in the world transiting a high tension area (Red Sea & Bab el Mandeb) as well as the Straits of Hormuz?

 

Not meant to be inflammatory, just thinking aloud and interested in mixed opinions

 

 

Cunard will follow the advice of the UK Foreign Office

[Cats2010]

I understand your concern, but don't forget that the QM2 is one of the safest and fastest (if not THE safest and fastest) ships in the world. She is well equipped against possible attacks with arms at the aft and a special alarm system with very intense and unbearable signals for the human ears. All this is attended by officers.

 

A Royal Nay ship was preceding us on the Read Sea during our world cruise in 2011 and Royal Navy Officers were aboard as well.

 

Before, during another critical part of the cruise by possibly being attacked from pirates around the Gulf of Aden, the captain ordered a complete close-down of the ship with the passengers having to stay in their cabins, all lights turned off etc.

 

I can't think that the ship, being commercial, would be involved in war-like situations nor would pirates attack her considering her dimensions.

 

By the way, I am going to sail this part of the world again and have no doubt that Cunard will reroute the ship if it becomes necessary. 

 

Best wishes.

 

 

[exlondoner]

In my experience, inevitably, Cunard err on the side of caution. They cancelled all Turkey calls a few years ago, in response to what seemed very minor dangers. But obviously they won't want to risk their passengers or ships. Sure they are sensible enough to alter their itinerary if they deem it risky. 

[rafinmd]

Don't forget that Dubai is one of the mid-voyage turnaround points.  Cancelling it would be a major headache.

 

Roy

[gfs1ram]

It's not only Dubai and surrounding area, what about the current troubles in Hong Kong ??

 

I have not read or researched Cruise ships no longer calling at Hong Kong but the Port is regularly used by Cunard

and the current unrest/riots must be of concern.

 

Like previous posters I trust Cunard and they will not put passengers or their ships at risk. UK Foreign Office guidance will always prevail.

 

With the Turkey and the Black Sea area's already 'no go' areas, sadly the world of Cruising could get a whole lot smaller.

[Captain_Morgan]

1 hour ago, gfs1ram said:

It's not only Dubai and surrounding area, what about the current troubles in Hong Kong ??

 

I have not read or researched Cruise ships no longer calling at Hong Kong but the Port is regularly used by Cunard

and the current unrest/riots must be of concern.

 

Like previous posters I trust Cunard and they will not put passengers or their ships at risk. UK Foreign Office guidance will always prevail.

 

With the Turkey and the Black Sea area's already 'no go' areas, sadly the world of Cruising could get a whole lot smaller.

 

Very good point re. Hong Kong as I've not heard nor looked into cruise ship traffic there although when i saw the protesters overtake the airport not long ago it did give me pause!  That said, the protesters in HK seemed to do their worst on weekends which i find quite civilized (sarcasm intended) although of course it could all change in an instant much the same as anything in the world...

 

If i'm not mistaken, didn't QM2 do the route via the Atlantic and down to South Africa and then across to Australia last year and then finish up through Asia, Middle East, Med?  Wonder why the change in direction this year?

Edited October 18, 2019 by Captain_Morgan
typo

[exlondoner]

Presumably to give those fortunate people who go on QM2 WC every year a bit of variety.

[bluemarble]

51 minutes ago, Captain_Morgan said:

... If i'm not mistaken, didn't QM2 do the route via the Atlantic and down to South Africa and then across to Australia last year and then finish up through Asia, Middle East, Med?  Wonder why the change in direction this year?

 

According to my records,

 

QM2's 2019 world voyage actually called at Dubai twice. She headed east through the Mediterranean before calling at Dubai on 29 January 2019. She then continued on to the far east before heading back west and calling at Dubai again on 25 March 2019 before sailing back through the Mediterranean.

 

QM2's 2018 world voyage rounded Africa and then visited Australia, New Zealand and parts of the Far East before returning west eventually calling at Dubai on 18/19 April 2018 and then sailing through the Mediterranean.

 

QM2's 2017 world voyage also rounded Africa and then headed to Australia and the Far East before eventually calling at Dubai on 18/19 April 2017 and then sailing through the Mediterranean.

 

QM2's 2016 world voyage was the last one of hers that included South America and rounding Cape Horn for a true circumnavigation of the world. She called at Dubai toward the end of that voyage on 18/19 April 2016.

 

It looks to me like QM2's 2020 world voyage is going to be fairly similar to her 2017 world voyage in terms of the general route at least, but that route is going to be done in reverse order. QM2's 2021 world voyage also looks fairly similar to the 2017 route and will be done in the same direction as 2017.

[princeton123211]

19 hours ago, sogne said:

Cunard will follow the advice of the UK Foreign Office

Do they though? Cunard is an American company with Bermuda flagged ships. 

[sogne]

4 hours ago, princeton123211 said:

Do they though? Cunard is an American company with Bermuda flagged ships. 

 

Bermuda is a British Overseas Territory

[Cats2010]

7 hours ago, princeton123211 said:

Do they though? Cunard is an American company with Bermuda flagged ships. 

To my knowledge, part of the shares are in a UK plc (public limited company.

[longton]

Carnival Cruise Line (CCL) shares are quoted on the London Stock Exchange. They own Cunard, Seabourn, P&O etc.

[princeton123211]

On 10/22/2019 at 11:46 AM, longton said:

Carnival Cruise Line (CCL) shares are quoted on the London Stock Exchange. They own Cunard, Seabourn, P&O etc.

We're both right in a way-- its actually dual listed on the New York Stock Exchange as well. Overall headquarters in Miami.