changes at the top

[Tampa Girl]

On 11/9/2019 at 11:47 AM, Boatdrill said:

The smaller ships are nice, and preferable to mega ships. However my first impression of the Statendam many  years ago (my first small HAL ship) was that it felt very enclosed. I called it "the indoor ship".  I was used to the light, airy feeling and openess of the Crystal ships. However the size and other negative attributes (IMHO) of the NS and Koningsdam will keep me from ever considering them.  

Hopefully HAL has a new small ship  in the pipeline.

 

If HAL wants to continue with interesting itineraries and appealing WC's, which by definition should include ports that the larger ships cannot enter, it will have to consider smaller ships.  As a small example, it would have been a real loss to us if we had not been able to view the Shanghai light show from the bow of our ship because we were berthed at a port a half an hour away.  Such is the difference between an R class ship and a Vista class.  A major part of HAL's attraction is its itineraries.

[npcl]

7 hours ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

If HAL wants to continue with interesting itineraries and appealing WC's, which by definition should include ports that the larger ships cannot enter, it will have to consider smaller ships.  As a small example, it would have been a real loss to us if we had not been able to view the Shanghai light show from the bow of our ship because we were berthed at a port a half an hour away.  Such is the difference between an R class ship and a Vista class.  A major part of HAL's attraction is its itineraries.

The economics, not only of operations cost efficiency, but of capital cost per passenger berth pretty much means that you will not see a new build out of HAL less than 2400 passengers.

 

The Amsterdam cost 241,000 per berth in 2000, the larger Nieuw Amsterdam cost $175,000 per berth in 2010, the even larger Nieuw Statendam cost $163,000 is 2018 (even with inflation in costs between each of those 3 ships during the 18 years from the first until the last)

 

The capital cost per passenger goes up significantly as ship size goes down.  Small ships will be the domain of the premium lines in the future. Or the smaller EU lines that are willing to run older ships, but it is up to each person to decide how their fare/experience quality works out for them.

Edited July 31, 2020 by npcl

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, npcl said:

 

The capital cost per passenger goes up significantly as ship size goes down.  Small ships will be the domain of the premium lines in the future. Or the smaller EU lines that are willing to run older ships, but it is up to each person to decide how their fare/experience quality works out for them.

 

Quite true. Having already had good experiences sailing on two smaller, more niche British lines I am certainly going to look to them in future, together with other lines that continue to sail the smaller ships. 

 

I've compromised as much as I am willing to, and after cruising for quite a long time, I know what I like and look for in a cruise. It doesn't have to be the newest, shiniest ship -- and definitely NOT the biggest. 

[npcl]

34 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Quite true. Having already had good experiences sailing on two smaller, more niche British lines I am certainly going to look to them in future, together with other lines that continue to sail the smaller ships. 

 

I've compromised as much as I am willing to, and after cruising for quite a long time, I know what I like and look for in a cruise. It doesn't have to be the newest, shiniest ship -- and definitely NOT the biggest. 

Sounds like your experience on the British niche lines was better then mine. 

[cruisemom42]

1 minute ago, npcl said:

Sounds like your experience on the British niche lines was better then mine. 

 

Well, as you originally said, we all have our own scales when it comes to what matters to us.

 

Which line(s) did you try?  I've sailed with Swan Hellenic and Voyages to Antiquity; loved both lines.

[npcl]

27 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Well, as you originally said, we all have our own scales when it comes to what matters to us.

 

Which line(s) did you try?  I've sailed with Swan Hellenic and Voyages to Antiquity; loved both lines.

Fred Olson

[Tampa Girl]

14 hours ago, npcl said:

The economics, not only of operations cost efficiency, but of capital cost per passenger berth pretty much means that you will not see a new build out of HAL less than 2400 passengers.

 

The Amsterdam cost 241,000 per berth in 2000, the larger Nieuw Amsterdam cost $175,000 per berth in 2010, the even larger Nieuw Statendam cost $163,000 is 2018 (even with inflation in costs between each of those 3 ships during the 18 years from the first until the last)

 

The capital cost per passenger goes up significantly as ship size goes down.  Small ships will be the domain of the premium lines in the future. Or the smaller EU lines that are willing to run older ships, but it is up to each person to decide how their fare/experience quality works out for them.

 

I know that you are correct, but it does not make me happy.  Like Cruisemom, we will probably be looking at other lines with smaller ships.  The Vista class is the largest that we want to sail, and even that class is limited in certain ports.  Also, if they don't reinstate at least the Crows Nest, we are out.

[Roz]

23 hours ago, iancal said:

I am surprised that some of the HAL loyalists have not tried to blame the disposal of the last four ships on Mr. Ashford even though it did not occur on his shift.  

 

I wondered if talk of selling the 4 ships starting while Mr. Ashford was still in charge or if it was more recent due to the continuing Covid financial crisis.  I think selling ships is more of a Carnival Corp. decision.  

[cruisemom42]

12 hours ago, npcl said:

Fred Olson

 

I haven't tried them yet but am willing. Especially as I think (hope?) they are "upping their game".

[Sir PMP]

16 hours ago, npcl said:

The economics, not only of operations cost efficiency, but of capital cost per passenger berth pretty much means that you will not see a new build out of HAL less than 2400 passengers.

 

The Amsterdam cost 241,000 per berth in 2000, the larger Nieuw Amsterdam cost $175,000 per berth in 2010, the even larger Nieuw Statendam cost $163,000 is 2018 (even with inflation in costs between each of those 3 ships during the 18 years from the first until the last)

 

The capital cost per passenger goes up significantly as ship size goes down.  Small ships will be the domain of the premium lines in the future. Or the smaller EU lines that are willing to run older ships, but it is up to each person to decide how their fare/experience quality works out for them.

Now, that's not a lot of money, compared to a Panama canal crossing..

[rkacruiser]

8 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I haven't tried them yet but am willing. Especially as I think (hope?) they are "upping their game".

 

My opinion is that may be their business plan.  

 

They have purchased two ships popular to HAL Mariners.  Both ships, particularly Rotterdam VI, is a known quantity in Europe.  

 

I cannot help wondering if part of their business plan is to begin sailings from North American ports trying to "tap into" the HAL's Mariner business.  

[cruisemom42]

18 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I cannot help wondering if part of their business plan is to begin sailings from North American ports trying to "tap into" the HAL's Mariner business.  

 

While that might be pleasant for us in the US, I think it is more likely that the new ships will replace some of their older ones that have reached a quite venerable age.

[rkacruiser]

2 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

While that might be pleasant for us in the US, I think it is more likely that the new ships will replace some of their older ones that have reached a quite venerable age.

 

Don't disagree, but if their interest is in "upping their game" and expanding into new markets, the additions of Amsterdam and Rotterdam to their fleet provides that opportunity.  

 

Wouldn't it be fun to be a "fly on the wall" of the Board Rooms of all of the cruise lines?  

[sail7seas]

All of the above conversation was  prior toCorona 19.   How a global plague (virus changes so much so fast.

 

Nevertheless still interesting IMO 

[rkacruiser]

5 hours ago, sail7seas said:

All of the above conversation was  prior toCorona 19.

 

??? Why did you say that sail?  If Covid-19 had not made its appearance, the Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Veendam, and Maasdam would probably still be in the HAL fleet.  The recent conversation has been on post-Covid 19's effects on HAL and the cruising industry.  

[Copper10-8]

On 8/1/2020 at 4:41 PM, cruisemom42 said:

 

While that might be pleasant for us in the US, I think it is more likely that the new ships will replace some of their older ones that have reached a quite venerable age.

 

You're right on that one; Fred Olsen came out on July 20th to report that they are deep-sixing Black Watch and Boudicca 

[iancal]

I do not think that there is any mystery in this business of cruise lines disposing of older, and in some instances, smaller ships. Either sell or scrap.

 

Surely it comes down to the bottom line and the target market.  When the ships become unprofitable or fail to meet  corporate revenue and profit targets/projections their economic value to the cruise line is at an end.  It all has to do with the bottom right hand number.  

 

Covid no doubt sped up the process.   The decision  to sell or scrap a ship is made based on the numbers-what is in the best interests of the shareholders.  I doubt whether Fred Olsen is any different than HAL or Princess, etc. in that regard.

Edited September 3, 2020 by iancal