Volendam Stuck in the Mud

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, AmazedByCruising said:

I

 

OK, the impression I got from documentaries etc was that even a few hours lost for a really big ship means thousands and thousands of dollars. In January this year, MSC Zoe tried to save some time by taking a much more dangerous, but a bit shorter, route leaving 342 containers for Holland to deal with (including mess that simply cannot be cleaned like tiny plastic particles). While such huge ships won't be sailing on the Amazon, I guess HAL's financial department would like to avoid grounded ships as well for a nice sum. 

 

 

 

Maybe we are talking about a non-problem, but still. What's the use of having charts that show ample depth at point X where there isn't and have an island where there's no island? 

 

Isn't there some kind of Service Level Agreement with the pilots, including a decent penalty clause for when the ship gets substantially delayed or damaged? (Besides Panama Canal).  I mean, it's hard for HAL to insure against the costs of grounding (OBC, stressed Guest Relations, missed ports and excursions, Facebook and Twitter, inspections, fuel, and I must have missed most) as they hardly ever sail on the Amazon. It's much easier for the pilots to insure (and get paid for being insured) as they can show records for ship sizes, areas, seasons, whatever.

 

 

 

Well, if you want to pay for hydrographic surveys of the Amazon river every month or so, and then pay to have that data converted to paper or electronic charts, you may have accurate charts.  Even the best paper charts (and these are now going the way of the dodo) are only printed every 10-20 years, and in between notices are sent out for the ship's officers to hand correct the chart (this is the 2nd Officer's main job as Navigator these days).  But you can't really redraw the entire riverbank, when it moves by a hundred feet or so.  Even electronic charts are only updated monthly, and most of that is not hydrographic data, but things like moved buoys, etc.  The Amazon has virtually no aids to navigation (lights or buoys) anywhere along its length.

 

Pilots are required by local national laws, and are certified by the local nation, typically on their knowledge of local conditions, but that would only apply to actual channel paths at the time of their exam.  They are hired by the shipping company, because they are required, to provide the best possible local knowledge, but again, the pilot is only an advisor to the Captain, who has the ultimate responsibility for the safe navigation of the vessel.  The pilot bears no financial responsibility to the shipping company, for any of their actions, unless it can be proven that they were grossly negligent in their duties.

 

In great alluvial rivers like the Amazon and the Rio Platte, large, deep draft ships like tankers are frequently used as "dredges" to clear the channel by scouring the bottom with their propellers that are only inches from the bottom.   It could have been a matter of 50 feet to port or starboard and the Volendam would not have grounded, but try estimating that kind of distance over a river that is 40 or more kilometers wide, and the shoreline is very flat.  That's why most major rivers use buoyed channels, but the Brazilians take a more relaxed view of things like this.

 

The "demurrage" or delay costs for the average sized ships going up and down the Amazon would range from $20-80k/day, and while that may seem like a lot of money to you and me, when you consider the ship is generating millions in freight charges, it really isn't a big deal if the ship is stuck for a few hours or a day or two.  Plus, the ship's insurance covers expenses caused by delays.

 

Here's a fun fact.  At Manaus, 900 miles from the mouth of the Amazon, the Rio Negro, which is one of two major tributaries of the Amazon that come together at Manaus, is 14 km wide. 

[Wehwalt]

Credits of $3.03 for port charges and $75 per the captain's letter were put on my folio overnight. 

[ComputerTravelGuy]

On 11/30/2019 at 5:52 PM, SilvertoGold said:

We were also asked to conserve water.  The Captain reported that about a third of pax did so.  Not sure what went into this accounting for how many complied, but he seemed happy with the number.

Found out 4-Star Mariners & above continued to have laundry services (not us lowly 3-Star Mariners). But we still had towel animals each day (so obviously a critical service). We’ve been conserving towels & water but washing a few items in the sink, as needed. 
Forward pool has been re-filled a day after the late stop in Santorem (guessing giving Engineering time to treat the water after restoring forward tanks & pool after running aground). 
Several of the Forward cruise and passenger elevators were also fouled up for the day after the grounding (wouldn’t go to floors selected) but they’re all back to normal operation 24 hours after running aground. Not sure if running aground and forward elevator issues were connected but the elevator issues started early next morning after running aground (and shaking the bow before coming to a halt). 
All excursions and shore activities resumed normal operation in Manaus and the port trip to Paratins was as published.  

Edited December 3, 2019 by ComputerTravelGuy

[usn1964]

On 11/29/2019 at 6:12 PM, Himself said:

That is what I tought.  Thank you for the clarification.

 

On 11/29/2019 at 6:12 PM, Himself said:

Volendam still has propellers and rudders, as does the lead ship of her class, Rotterdam and her near sister, Zaandam. Amsterdam, the last ship in the "R"-class is the only one with the Azi-pod propulsion system

Well isn't that special. I did not know that and I've sailed on all 4 of them. Learn something new every day. 

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, ComputerTravelGuy said:

Found out 4-Star Mariners & above continued to have laundry services (not us lowly 3-Star Mariners). But we still had towel animals each day (so obviously a critical service). We’ve been conserving towels & water but washing a few items in the sink, as needed. 
Forward pool has been re-filled a day after the late stop in Santorem (guessing giving Engineering time to treat the water after restoring forward tanks & pool after running aground). 
Several of the Forward cruise and passenger elevators were also fouled up for the day after the grounding (wouldn’t go to floors selected) but they’re all back to normal operation 24 hours after running aground. Not sure if running aground and forward elevator issues were connected but the elevator issues started early next morning after running aground (and shaking the bow before coming to a halt). 
All excursions and shore activities resumed normal operation in Manaus and the port trip to Paratins was as published.  

Ship's elevators are notoriously finicky, which is why there is one electrical engineer assigned solely to doing elevator maintenance.  An impact, or the jarring of the ship while gnawing to get loose, will move the elevators to the limits of the guide rails, and this can make the floor stop switches miss the sensor, and the elevator gets alzheimers.  Sparky has to take the elevator out of service, run it all the way down, reset the power, and then see if everything works again.

 

Are the pools fresh water?  I thought HAL pools were all salt water, so they may have refilled from the clear water in Santarem.

[iflyrc5]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Ship's elevators are notoriously finicky, which is why there is one electrical engineer assigned solely to doing elevator maintenance.  An impact, or the jarring of the ship while gnawing to get loose, will move the elevators to the limits of the guide rails, and this can make the floor stop switches miss the sensor, and the elevator gets alzheimers.  Sparky has to take the elevator out of service, run it all the way down, reset the power, and then see if everything works again.

 

Are the pools fresh water?  I thought HAL pools were all salt water, so they may have refilled from the clear water in Santarem.

According to the chief engineers on the Rotterdam and Koningsdam (I asked them on my last 2 cruises) all the pools on all HAL ships are now fresh water and also they are heated.  They said that in the past some pools were salt water but the corrosion issues were too much so they were changed to fresh water.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, iflyrc5 said:

According to the chief engineers on the Rotterdam and Koningsdam (I asked them on my last 2 cruises) all the pools on all HAL ships are now fresh water and also they are heated.  They said that in the past some pools were salt water but the corrosion issues were too much so they were changed to fresh water.

That would have been a big hit to the potable water supply, after a trip up and down the Amazon, unless they took water in Manaus or Santarem.  I've taken water in Manaus, and it wasn't great, and we used a lot of bleach to ensure proper sanitation.

[HokiePoq]

This is a very interesting thread...thanks to all contributors.  I hope the Volendam (dear to my heart as it was our very first cruise ever) is okay.    We did Amazon Explorer on the Veendam.   I am wondering why a larger (I think) ship was on this itinerary.   Veendam and Maasdam (busy in Australia) are the smallest IIRC.   When we entered the Amazon our wonderful captain told us after the fact just how shallow the water was getting through.   We were there for Carnival in Rio so it was rainy season with high water upstream, no problems.   Same captain led us through ice fields in Greenland on the Veendam.     I had never considered the opposite....low water upstream before rainy season.   As I loved this itinerary and would do it all over again, the timing is something to consider.   Thanks again to OP and all contributors.

[rafinmd]

2 hours ago, ComputerTravelGuy said:

But we still had towel animals each day (so obviously a critical service).

I think the towels used for animals mostly get reused as animals the next night.

 

Roy

[ComputerTravelGuy]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Ship's elevators are notoriously finicky, which is why there is one electrical engineer assigned solely to doing elevator maintenance. 
...

 

Are the pools fresh water?  I thought HAL pools were all salt water, so they may have refilled from the clear water in Santarem.

My thoughts as well for the elevator but appreciated your detailed knowledge here. Thankfully, they’re back in operation. 
Just tested the water in the forward pool and it’s fresh water. Can’t say if it previously was a salt water pool but it’s fresh now - just taste tested it. Understand from ship’s announcements that the forward water tanks and pool were filled but guessing the water had to be purified to HAL purity standards and not Santarem standards. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by ComputerTravelGuy

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, ComputerTravelGuy said:

My thoughts as well for the elevator but appreciated your detailed knowledge here. Thankfully, they’re back in operation. 
Just tested the water in the forward pool and it’s fresh water. Can’t say if it previously was a salt water pool but it’s fresh now - just taste tested it. Understand from ship’s announcements that the forward water tanks and pool were filled but guessing the water had to be purified to HAL purity standards and not Santarem standards. 

Well, when water is taken from shore, it must have been tested within the last month to WHO standards, directly from the hydrant (not a generic water board sanitation report).  The hoses are treated by immersing the ends in a 100ppm chlorine solution for 1 minute, and the water is chlorinated to 2-4ppm before it goes into the tank.  The water taken from shore must be kept segregated from the rest of the ship's water supply, and not used, until a coliform bacteria test is done on it, and this takes 18-24 hours to develop.  These are all standard cruise ship sanitation practices as required by USPH, EU, and WHO.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, rafinmd said:

I think the towels used for animals mostly get reused as animals the next night.

 

Roy

They must send them down for ironing then, as the tight twists they use for the animals would show as wrinkles when done for a different animal.

[ComputerTravelGuy]

26 minutes ago, HokiePoq said:

This is a very interesting thread...thanks to all contributors.  I hope the Volendam (dear to my heart as it was our very first cruise ever) is okay.    We did Amazon Explorer on the Veendam.   I am wondering why a larger (I think) ship was on this itinerary.   Veendam and Maasdam (busy in Australia) are the smallest IIRC.   When we entered the Amazon our wonderful captain told us after the fact just how shallow the water was getting through.   We were there for Carnival in Rio so it was rainy season with high water upstream, no problems.   Same captain led us through ice fields in Greenland on the Veendam.     I had never considered the opposite....low water upstream before rainy season.   As I loved this itinerary and would do it all over again, the timing is something to consider.   Thanks again to OP and all contributors.

We’re at the end of the dry season so the river is at the normal low level. The Amazon River is just starting to rise based on rains from upstream according to your guides.  Docking HAL tenders aren’t an issue but at all docks, we have either a steep uphill climb to get to the Manaus or Paratins main streets.  At Manaus, they provided a free shuttle but at Paratins, passengers had to walk up a steep incline (from the river to the city street). Folks with walkers were struggling ...  

[ComputerTravelGuy]

4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

... The water taken from shore must be kept segregated from the rest of the ship's water supply, and not used, until a coliform bacteria test is done on it, and this takes 18-24 hours to develop.  These are all standard cruise ship sanitation practices as required by USPH, EU, and WHO.

Yup, the pool wasn’t filled until 24 hours after we docked at Santarem - purification. 

[ComputerTravelGuy]

16 hours ago, Wehwalt said:

Credits of $3.03 for port charges and $75 per the captain's letter were put on my folio overnight

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

That would have been a big hit to the potable water supply, after a trip up and down the Amazon, unless they took water in Manaus or Santarem.  I've taken water in Manaus, and it wasn't great, and we used a lot of bleach to ensure proper sanitation.

We watched as our ship took on water in Santarem  ... filled the forward pool a day later after purification. Unclear if we took on water in Manaus (having too much fun with pink dolphins, Indian villages, floating houses, etc). 

[ComputerTravelGuy]

16 hours ago, Wehwalt said:

Credits of $3.03 for port charges and $75 per the captain's letter were put on my folio overnight. 

We received a HAL letter yesterday indicating the $75 was for poor internet and TV services (we had recent outages) which seemed rather a high refund amount.  But no refunds for missed ports or missed excursions (since we arrived in Santarem in the evening & departed early the next morning). The letter indicates that the Volendam was “under the local pilot’s control” when we ran aground.
From my perspective, HAL isn’t responsible for running the ship aground - common occurrence in the Amazon River - refunds to passengers (me) wouldn’t be required IMHO. But I’ll let the maritime lawyers for HAL and Brazilian pilots sort that one out. 

[ryndam]

2 hours ago, ComputerTravelGuy said:

Docking HAL tenders aren’t an issue but at all docks, we have either a steep uphill climb to get to the Manaus or Paratins main streets.  At Manaus, they provided a free shuttle but at Paratins, passengers had to walk up a steep incline (from the river to the city street). Folks with walkers were struggling ...  

 

We are not on this current cruise, but your comment brings back memories of the "beach landings" in Paratins and Alto do Chao during a particularly low water, drought Amazon cruise a few years ago. The sand was very loose and one just sank into it. The tender landing was an improvised barge. I remember that those with mobility issues were advised to stay onboard.

 

Rob

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by ryndam
typo

[Donald]

14 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

They must send them down for ironing then, as the tight twists they use for the animals would show as wrinkles when done for a different animal.

HAL is one of those cruise lines that "re-cycles" towel animals to save time and water. 

The towels are not re-folded.

The same towel animal that spent the day in your cabin spends the next day in some other cabin.

USPH Inspectors called it one of the most efficient methods of spreading viruses.

[*Miss G*]

Thanks for those pictures @ryndam.  Are those volcanoes in the background?

[Floridiana]

15 minutes ago, Donald said:

The same towel animal that spent the day in your cabin spends the next day in some other cabin.

USPH Inspectors called it one of the most efficient methods of spreading viruses.

 

Really? Our towel animal fell apart most of the time when we relocated it and it appeared again as a new animal. The Koningsdam had a lot of antiviral measures in place that many people just don't notice.

[TiogaCruiser]

I’ve come across a stash of towel animals in the round bin on more than one occasion.

[Sir PMP]

2 hours ago, *Miss G* said:

Thanks for those pictures @ryndam.  Are those volcanoes in the background?

No, they are not, these are pictures from Alter de Chao, an absolutely gorgeous place, now they have a nice landing, once off you have to cross a bridge and pas a few souvenir stalls and then walk to the beach, the waters here are pristine.

[ComputerTravelGuy]

The Volendam will soon exit the Amazon River and turn South to Belem, Brazil - our last port in that country. I’ve had a great time on the cruise so far. I was fascinated on the ship running aground, the Captain’s eventual steps to free the ship and his verbal & written communications to passengers. We bought a few HAL excursions (enjoyable) and several private excursions (enjoyable and a bit less expensive). Amazon River excursions are a must as walking around an Amazon port industrial city is dangerous and not fun but traveling to a jungle, or taking a boat to see Indian villages, pink dolphins or floating homes is quite fun. 
BTW - we had two folks in cruise critic group that we heard contracted malaria. I will try and find out the details but will remind future cruisers to Brazil to take simple measures to avoid malaria like not being outdoors around dusk & dawn, wearing long pants & shirts and using insecticide spray or wipes with Deet. We were amazed by cruisers who didn’t bring insecticide with Deet on the cruise (A basic step).  As for malaria pills, talk with your doctor.  We opted not to take the malaria pills but definitely took the Yellow Fever shots and Typhoid pill series. But again, discuss this topic with your doctor. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by ComputerTravelGuy

[chengkp75]

Interesting tidbit from my stay on the Amazon.  We were there for over a month, and you are supposed to take the anti-malarials for 2-4 weeks after leaving (depends on the meds).  We were not expecting to be there that long, so the company did not provide enough meds for the crew to continue after leaving the Amazon.  When we asked the Tropical Disease hospital in Manaus for medications, which they had in vast quantities, they said "oh, you're at the city, there is no malaria in the city, only outside the city", and wouldn't give us any.  We had to have a crew member who was joining smuggle a large jar of meds in when he came.  Loads of side effects, not sure I'd take them again.

[AmazedByCruising]

14 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Interesting tidbit from my stay on the Amazon.  We were there for over a month, and you are supposed to take the anti-malarials for 2-4 weeks after leaving (depends on the meds).  We were not expecting to be there that long, so the company did not provide enough meds for the crew to continue after leaving the Amazon.  When we asked the Tropical Disease hospital in Manaus for medications, which they had in vast quantities, they said "oh, you're at the city, there is no malaria in the city, only outside the city", and wouldn't give us any.  We had to have a crew member who was joining smuggle a large jar of meds in when he came.  Loads of side effects, not sure I'd take them again.

 

Huh, didn't the hospital understand you'd be sailing on the Amazon?

And why would you need to smuggle anti-malaria drugs? They're not restricted are they?

When visiting Zimbabwe with my (then) girlfriend, we decided to not take the pills for the side effects en were religiously using Deet all the time.😀

 

1 hour ago, ComputerTravelGuy said:

We were amazed by cruisers who didn’t bring insecticide with Deet on the cruise (A basic step).

 

Well, I was amazed (but being amazed is my middle name 😀) that I couldn't simply buy antacids on the ship (whereas they did sell toothpaste), I was referred to the infirmary. Luckily my cruise mate could supply me from her magic purse.

On a cruise like that I'd expect the ship to have loads of Deet in stock and the CD to say daily that you need to protect yourselves. Ships do provide you with (even free) meds for seasickness, and food for being hungry. I'd expect them to bring Deet and not just Tonic.