Tipping for Excursions

[sparks1093]

9 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

It would proably depend on the minimun wage😋. But I thought the complaints about tipping were due to lower end eateries, the ones where customers are not racking up a hundred dollar bills? Isn't that the one where they say waiters work as hard but never earn as much? Or have all eateries now raised their prices that it is easy to for a meal to cost quite a significant amount? I can see how tipping can be advantageous as long as the price of meals keep going up. It really irks me when people complain that so and so restaurant has raised their prices and swear never to eat there again. If costs go up they need to cover them somehow otherwise they would go out of business, what do people seriously expect😕?

 

 

Yes, people that work at the lower end establishments do make less, but they are likely earning more than minimum wage even so. (So if someone has a bill of $40 for a meal and leaves 15% that's $6 and if the waitstaff handles only 5 tables in an hour that's still $30 an hour.) Working for tips isn't for everyone, but one can work for tips and make a decent living.

[ducklite]

1 minute ago, sparks1093 said:

Yes, people that work at the lower end establishments do make less, but they are likely earning more than minimum wage even so. (So if someone has a bill of $40 for a meal and leaves 15% that's $6 and if the waitstaff handles only 5 tables in an hour that's still $30 an hour.) Working for tips isn't for everyone, but one can work for tips and make a decent living.

I look at my local Cracker Barrel.  I'm guessing the average check is $40 and the average tip is 15%. They turn breakfast tables five times on a Saturday and Sunday morning.  They definitely staff lower on the weekdays, so they still have the same number of guests.   Doing some simple math, I believe that they would pocket $250 per shift on weekends and about $150 on weekdays.  Not bad pay for a six hour shift.

[NLH Arizona]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Ah, so your altruism is a one way street. You have made their wages your problem, which means that you have made all of their working conditions your problem. You want them to be paid a fair wage, but you don't want to do anything to ensure that they get the hours they need. You are also presuming they will provide poor service, but if they do then that is an absolutely valid reason to reduce or withhold tips, which is why most of them do go above and beyond (but I seem to recall that you don't buy that theory either). 

 

And yes, they have chosen to work for tips instead of a guaranteed salary and they are very happy with that choice. You are the only one that is unhappy with it and you, as an outsider, can't change it and by refusing to leave a tip you hurt only the person that you purport to be concerned about in the first place.

I always find it amazing of those that think tipping is bad.  Now, if a restaurant (as the restaurant that did the no tipping test) decides to pay their servers say $15 an hour, what will the restaurant do?  They will raise menu prices to off set the difference between the lower tipping wage and the new non-tipping wage and what does that mean the prices will go up to the consumer.  As the restaurant that did the no tipping test, customers didn't like it, because they were paying more.  What folks don't realize when they say raise the hourly rate to $15 or other things folks want free, is that they will be paying for all these things and people will lose their jobs (one person running for office, raised the wages of their employees to $15 and then had to fire half, because he couldn't afford the new wage rate).  In other words.....nothing is free, there is always a price to pay.  Probably something the social justice warriors don't think about are the consequences.

Edited December 30, 2019 by NLH Arizona

[ilikeanswers]

15 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

They will raise menu prices to off set the difference between the lower tipping wage and the new non-tipping wage and what does that mean the prices will go up to the consumer.  As the restaurant that did the no tipping test, customers didn't like it, because they were paying more. 

 

I do get annoyed when people complain about restaurants uping their prices. If the price needs to go up it needs to go up, boycotting a restaurant is not going to change the fact that costs are going up and they need to cover them. At the end of the day eating at a restaurant is a luxury they should not be obligated to keep their prices the same for twenty years especially if patrons earnings are going up too.

Edited December 30, 2019 by ilikeanswers

[ducklite]

 

12 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

I always find it amazing of those that think tipping is bad.  Now, if a restaurant (as the restaurant that did the no tipping test) decides to pay their servers say $15 an hour, what will the restaurant do?  They will raise menu prices to off set the difference between the lower tipping wage and the new non-tipping wage and what does that mean the prices will go up to the consumer.  As the restaurant that did the no tipping test, customers didn't like it, because they were paying more.  What folks don't realize when they say raise the hourly rate to $15 or other things folks want free, is that they will be paying for all these things and people will lose their jobs (one person running for office, raised the wages of their employees to $15 and then had to fire half, because he couldn't afford the new wage rate).  In other words.....nothing is free, there is always a price to pay.  Probably something the social justice warriors don't think about are the consequences.

We'll see what happens as more and more companies are paying $15 an hour--or moving towards it incrementally.  I think it will be good for the economy.  Right now there are far more job openings than labor pool in most lower paying positions, and the increase should level it out--not because of lost jobs, but because people who haven't been in the labor force for whatever reason will return to it because it's now economically feasible.  

[flyingron]

You can argue what you like about the propriety of tipping, but unless you're in a US port, you best follow the local custom or being properly labeled the ugly American.  There are places where tipping isn't expected.   These days, they'll usually not be offended if you try (though a few places that get lots of American travellers are beginning to expect it).

 

The amounts vary widely.     Your cruise director will usually clue you in as to what the local custom is.   You'll also find things like the custom to get in (or at least tip) restroom attendants and the like.   

 

[sparks1093]

49 minutes ago, ducklite said:

 

We'll see what happens as more and more companies are paying $15 an hour--or moving towards it incrementally.  I think it will be good for the economy.  Right now there are far more job openings than labor pool in most lower paying positions, and the increase should level it out--not because of lost jobs, but because people who haven't been in the labor force for whatever reason will return to it because it's now economically feasible.  

I'd rather see wages go up because companies need to raise what they pay in order to attract workers. Raising the minimum wage might work in the short term but at the end of the day things will become level and people working for minimum wage will still be working for minimum wage.

[ducklite]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

I don't think anyone on here has said that tipping is a perfect system without flaws. I also note that most of the article pertains to Uber drivers and while I've never used Uber before even I know they are a tipless system (or at least they were when they started out). 

They have never been tipless.  I used to tip them in cash. now I can do so on the app.

[c-boy]

37 minutes ago, ducklite said:

Unless they slug their coworker, touch someone very inappropriately, or are found drunk and passed out on the clock it's almost impossible.  

well ya, most if not all labor organizations have a contract/mou with their employer so as to dissuade unfair labor practices and behavior from both parties 

[aknguyen]

If someone truly wanted to make some change in a society, using a week off would be more efficiently spent lobbying for said change in some form rather than complaining to random people on the internet who have zero ability to make any effective changes. But that's a different discussion from the original question posted on this thread.

 

I've only cruised the Caribbean so I can only speak to tipping in that area. I personally determine how much to tip on an excursion using a variety of factors. The length of the tour is the biggest factor. If it took up most of the day and they likely won't be able to make any more tips that day, I might do $20 for my family of 2 adults and 1 young child. It also depends on how many people are on the excursion, which directly affects how much personal attention we receive. Smaller groups = more attention = more tip. If someone goes above and beyond I'll add more. I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination so there is nothing to flaunt. LOL Trust me. I have to save up for these cruises and excursions. I recognize that the bulk of income in these areas come from tips and I have no problem contributing to the local economy. I enjoy my time there and therefore am willing to pay to be able to enjoy it. Sure I could walk around on my own and not tip anyone. But I find it much more enjoyable with a local guide...who works for tips.

 

[gerryuk]

Looking through this thread it seems crazy to me that people on here are happy to pay tips to staff on cruise ships, to make up their pay. These multi national cruise lines are raking in billions, yet are paying their staff peanuts. The CEO and the shareholders of these cruise lines must be laughing all the way to the bank with their shoddy buisness model. I would tip if i knew it was a bonus to the member of staff, on top of their salery, not to subsidise their pay because their bosses dont give a damn. The CEOs of these cruise lines must praise the lord every day, that there are some many gullible people out there, whilst counting their millions in, bonus payments.

Cruise line	Parent company	Passengers (thousands)[1]	Revenue (US$ millions)[1]	Passengers %	Revenue %
Total		26,001.0	46,571.9	100%	100%
Carnival Corporation & plc		12,302.30	18,305.16	47.4%	39.4%
Carnival Cruise Line	Carnival Corporation & plc	5,716.5	4,166.89	22%	8.9%
Princess Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	1,667.5	4,228.85	6.4%	9.1%
Costa Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	1,560.6	2,235.62	6%	4.8%
AIDA Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	1,183.7	2,128.28	4.6%	4.6%
Holland America Line	Carnival Corporation & plc	831.5	2,589.60	3.2%	5.6%
P&O Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	623.4	1,031.85	2.4%	2.2%
P&O Cruises Australia	Carnival Corporation & plc	499.6	548.02	1.9%	1.2%
Cunard Line	Carnival Corporation & plc	169.6	823.79	0.7%	1.8%
Seabourn Cruise Line	Carnival Corporation & plc	49.9	552.26	0.2%	1.2%
Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.		5,963.80	9,389.80	23%	20.2%
Royal Caribbean International	Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.	4,987.0	6,525.18	19.2%	14%
Celebrity Cruises	Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.	909.5	2,447.45	3.5%	5.3%
Azamara Cruises	Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.	67.3	417.17	0.3%	0.9%
Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings		2,471.20	5,833.20	9.5%	12.6%
Norwegian Cruise Line	Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings	2,269.8	3,897.80	8.7%	8.4%
Oceania Cruises	Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings	132.5	1,057.97	0.5%	2.3%
Regent Seven Seas Cruises	Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings	68.9	877.43	0.3%	1.9%
MSC Cruises	Mediterranean Shipping Company	1,876.2	3,148.90	7.2%	6.8%
Genting Hong Kong		525.80	2,309.02	2.1%	5%
Dream Cruises	Genting Hong Kong	258.1	1,024.45	1%	2.2%
Star Cruises	Genting Hong Kong	227.6	722.72	0.9%	1.6%
Crystal Cruises	Genting Hong Kong	40.1	561.85	0.2%	1.2%
Disney Cruise Line	Disney Parks, Experiences and Products	589.5	1,006.77	2.3%	2.2%
TUI Cruises	TUI AG (50%) Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. (50%)	523.8	1,057.84	2%	2.3%
Pullmantur Cruises	Other Springwater Capital (51%) Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. (50%)	370.4	467.67	1.4%	1%
Hurtigruten	Hurtigruten, Inc.	246.2	952.52	0.9%	2%
Viking Cruises	Other	163.2	604.43	0.6%	1.3%
Cruise & Maritime Voyages	Other	122.9	487.95	0.5%	1%
Celestyal Cruises	Louis PLC	118.8	377.17	0.5%	0.8%
Marella Cruises	TUI AG	106.4	338.00	0.4%	0.7%
Fred. Olsen Cruise Lines	Bonheur	106.2	156.31	0.4%	0.3%
Silversea Cruises	Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. (67%) Other (33%)	81.0	685.00	0.3%	1.5%
Phoenix Reisen	Other	81.0	257.28	0.3%	0.6%
Hapag-Lloyd Cruises	Hapag-Lloyd AG	72.3	147.21	0.3%	0.3%
Compagnie du Ponant	Artémis	51.1	185.77	0.2%	0.4%
Windstar Cruises	The Anschutz Corporation	46.9	186.32	0.2%	0.4%
Quark Expeditions	Travelopia	31.1	123.51	0.1%	0.3%
Saga Cruises	Saga plc	30.8	97.88	0.1%	0.2%
Lindblad Expeditions	Other	26.1	103.79	0.1%	0.2%
Star Clippers	Star Clippers Ltd	21.6	85.57	0.1%	0.2%
American Cruise Lines	Other	19.9	68.31	0.1%	0.1%
Voyages to Antiquity	Other	11.5	45.73	>0.0%	0.1%
Paul Gauguin Cruises	Other	9.8	38.71	>0.0%	0.1%
SeaDream Yacht Club	Other	8.6	33.99	>0.0%	0.1%
Travel Dynamics	Other	6.4	20.22	>0.0%	>0.0%
Blount Small Ship Adventures	Other	5.9	23.31	>0.0%	0.1%
Orion Expedition Cruises	Other	5.1	20.32	>0.0%	>0.0%
Grand Circle Cruise Line	Other	3.8	12.15	>0.0%	>0.0%
Hebridean Island Cruises	Other	1.4	2.13	>0.0%	>0.0%

[gerryuk]

14 minutes ago, gerryuk said:

Looking through this thread it seems crazy to me that people on here are happy to pay tips to staff on cruise ships, to make up their pay. These multi national cruise lines are raking in billions, yet are paying their staff peanuts. The CEO and the shareholders of these cruise lines must be laughing all the way to the bank with their shoddy buisness model. I would tip if i knew it was a bonus to the member of staff, on top of their salery, not to subsidise their pay because their bosses dont give a damn. The CEOs of these cruise lines must praise the lord every day, that there are some many gullible people out there, whilst counting their millions in, bonus payments.

Cruise line	Parent company	Passengers (thousands)[1]	Revenue (US$ millions)[1]	Passengers %	Revenue %
Total		26,001.0	46,571.9	100%	100%
Carnival Corporation & plc		12,302.30	18,305.16	47.4%	39.4%
Carnival Cruise Line	Carnival Corporation & plc	5,716.5	4,166.89	22%	8.9%
Princess Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	1,667.5	4,228.85	6.4%	9.1%
Costa Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	1,560.6	2,235.62	6%	4.8%
AIDA Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	1,183.7	2,128.28	4.6%	4.6%
Holland America Line	Carnival Corporation & plc	831.5	2,589.60	3.2%	5.6%
P&O Cruises	Carnival Corporation & plc	623.4	1,031.85	2.4%	2.2%
P&O Cruises Australia	Carnival Corporation & plc	499.6	548.02	1.9%	1.2%
Cunard Line	Carnival Corporation & plc	169.6	823.79	0.7%	1.8%
Seabourn Cruise Line	Carnival Corporation & plc	49.9	552.26	0.2%	1.2%
Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.		5,963.80	9,389.80	23%	20.2%
Royal Caribbean International	Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.	4,987.0	6,525.18	19.2%	14%
Celebrity Cruises	Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.	909.5	2,447.45	3.5%	5.3%
Azamara Cruises	Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.	67.3	417.17	0.3%	0.9%
Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings		2,471.20	5,833.20	9.5%	12.6%
Norwegian Cruise Line	Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings	2,269.8	3,897.80	8.7%	8.4%
Oceania Cruises	Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings	132.5	1,057.97	0.5%	2.3%
Regent Seven Seas Cruises	Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings	68.9	877.43	0.3%	1.9%
MSC Cruises	Mediterranean Shipping Company	1,876.2	3,148.90	7.2%	6.8%
Genting Hong Kong		525.80	2,309.02	2.1%	5%
Dream Cruises	Genting Hong Kong	258.1	1,024.45	1%	2.2%
Star Cruises	Genting Hong Kong	227.6	722.72	0.9%	1.6%
Crystal Cruises	Genting Hong Kong	40.1	561.85	0.2%	1.2%
Disney Cruise Line	Disney Parks, Experiences and Products	589.5	1,006.77	2.3%	2.2%
TUI Cruises	TUI AG (50%) Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. (50%)	523.8	1,057.84	2%	2.3%
Pullmantur Cruises	Other Springwater Capital (51%) Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. (50%)	370.4	467.67	1.4%	1%
Hurtigruten	Hurtigruten, Inc.	246.2	952.52	0.9%	2%
Viking Cruises	Other	163.2	604.43	0.6%	1.3%
Cruise & Maritime Voyages	Other	122.9	487.95	0.5%	1%
Celestyal Cruises	Louis PLC	118.8	377.17	0.5%	0.8%
Marella Cruises	TUI AG	106.4	338.00	0.4%	0.7%
Fred. Olsen Cruise Lines	Bonheur	106.2	156.31	0.4%	0.3%
Silversea Cruises	Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. (67%) Other (33%)	81.0	685.00	0.3%	1.5%
Phoenix Reisen	Other	81.0	257.28	0.3%	0.6%
Hapag-Lloyd Cruises	Hapag-Lloyd AG	72.3	147.21	0.3%	0.3%
Compagnie du Ponant	Artémis	51.1	185.77	0.2%	0.4%
Windstar Cruises	The Anschutz Corporation	46.9	186.32	0.2%	0.4%
Quark Expeditions	Travelopia	31.1	123.51	0.1%	0.3%
Saga Cruises	Saga plc	30.8	97.88	0.1%	0.2%
Lindblad Expeditions	Other	26.1	103.79	0.1%	0.2%
Star Clippers	Star Clippers Ltd	21.6	85.57	0.1%	0.2%
American Cruise Lines	Other	19.9	68.31	0.1%	0.1%
Voyages to Antiquity	Other	11.5	45.73	>0.0%	0.1%
Paul Gauguin Cruises	Other	9.8	38.71	>0.0%	0.1%
SeaDream Yacht Club	Other	8.6	33.99	>0.0%	0.1%
Travel Dynamics	Other	6.4	20.22	>0.0%	>0.0%
Blount Small Ship Adventures	Other	5.9	23.31	>0.0%	0.1%
Orion Expedition Cruises	Other	5.1	20.32	>0.0%	>0.0%
Grand Circle Cruise Line	Other	3.8	12.15	>0.0%	>0.0%
Hebridean Island Cruises	Other	1.4	2.13	>0.0%	>0.0%

 

Here is the 2019 earnings of executives of Carnival Corp PLC. I wonder when in board meetings do these executives tip the tea lady when she come round, do they tip workers in the canteen?, do they tip the office cleaners? Something tells me, not a chance. Why are those insisting on tipping staff when on cruises, you are subsidising these bloated executives?. Their companies make more than enough turnover to pay all their staff a decent living wage. But then again why would they?, they have enough gullible customers who are happy to prop up their employees wages. 

 

Name And Title	Total Cash	Equity	Other	Total Compensation
Arnold W. Donald President & CEO	$6,189,000	$7,028,094	$289,790	$13,506,884
David Bernstein CFO & CAO	$2,313,000	$1,959,205	$283,589	$4,555,794
Michael Thamm CEO of Costa Group & Carnival Asia	$2,784,679	$2,415,232	$83,666	$5,283,577
Stein Kruse Group CEO of Holland America Group & Carnival UK	$2,733,400	$2,704,688	$78,305	$5,516,393
Arnaldo Perez General Counsel & Secretary

[c-boy]

This thread has turned into a class envy thread 

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, c-boy said:

This thread has turned into a class envy thread 

 

I don't know if it is class envy but I have always wondered what kind of work could be worth 10 million a year 🤔. We currently have a terrible fire season where fire fighters have died trying to protect communities and despite the life threatening job it is not considered 10 million a year work. It is certainly worth questioning what kind of jobs as a society we value but perhaps a cruising forum is the wrong place to be asking these sorts of questions😂.

 

Maybe if more of the CEOs of cruise companies were people who had worked their way through the company rather than career CEOs they might think differently about the pay structure. On the other hand most passangers don't really value the cruise industry as everyone wants it to be as cheap as possible and it tends to be a race to the bottom. So you also need to change the collective mindset to convince them that cruising is something worth paying more for. 

 

[ducklite]

14 hours ago, c-boy said:

This thread has turned into a class envy thread 

I agree, and think that the compensation of CEO's is an entirely different topic.  Face it, the people who own the companies providing shore excursions are probably not making much--if anything--more than a typical cruiser, and overall I'm guessing the guides make less.  It's not like they are getting all sorts of benefits such as health insurance, PTO, pensions and/or retirement savings accounts with a company match, etc.  Those things can really begin to add up.

[RocketMan275]

20 hours ago, ChinaShrek said:

Since this is school vacation week and I have little to do other then post on the internet.  I did some research about the flaws in tipping.  Some may want to read here:

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/american-tipping-system-makes-no-sense/600865/

 

 

While you're on vacation, perhaps you might want to investigate the effects of $15/hour wages have had on tipped personnel.  

[ducklite]

21 hours ago, c-boy said:

well now hold on there duck, people in unions get terminated everyday, it's just harder to do it.

I know someone who works as a State employee.  She's a (barely) functioning alcoholic.  She usually goes to lunch Friday and doesn't return to work.  She is late on average 50-60 times a year because she's too hung over to get out of bed.  She has--by her own admission--showed up to work still drunk from the night before.  She has cursed out her boss and co-workers numerous times.  She totaled a State vehicle she was driving on personal business without permission--while on a restricted license due to her second DUI.  (She was not drunk while driving that vehicle, but did have a low BAC.) 

 

They have been trying to fire her for over 19 years.  Every time, the union sends a rep, she promises to clean up her act, and does for the next six months or so.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  When they had to do lay offs about eight years ago, she was "untouchable" due to her age and seniority.  She has to keep her nose clean for another four months and then she'll retire at 60 with a full pension.  

 

My brother is a bigwig in a state educational system. He has an employee he's been trying to fire for six years now.  Not all that different than the woman I know as described above.  (Different people, different states.)  She keeps claiming her substance abuse is a disability, and as a result they haven't been able to terminate her.  She also refuses to go to rehab because she says she doesn't have a problem.  The judge agreed with the State but said that because of the "disability" he can't sign an order against her.  Now my brother is trying to just pawn her off on a different department to get her off "his books."

[ilikeanswers]

28 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

While you're on vacation, perhaps you might want to investigate the effects of $15/hour wages have had on tipped personnel.  

 

Don't worry they will all be fired and rehired as freelance contractors😜. 

[RocketMan275]

5 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Don't worry they will all be fired and rehired as freelance contractors😜. 

You really are out of touch aren't  you?  In California, they've already started passing laws to outlaw 'freelance' contractors.

[GUT2407]

On 12/30/2019 at 10:20 AM, lenquixote66 said:

I remember when I was in college having a discussion with another student.He said that his dream was to one day earn $10,000 a year.We laughed because it seemed so impossible.

Reminds me of a bloke being transferred from the bank I worked at, about 1979 said he thought by the time he retired he would be on bout $40,000 everyone laughed hysterically, if he is still working there (May have hit retirement age) he’d be on $150,000 now not allowing for promotions.

[GUT2407]

On 12/31/2019 at 12:41 AM, ducklite said:

Not to mention that I would never return to a place where I stiffed the service workers.  They have memories like elephants and talk to each other.  I know this as a former server/bartender/Somm.  We have our ways of getting back at people.  😉 

So it’s not tips it is extortion, don’t you have laws against that?

[GUT2407]

On 12/31/2019 at 2:48 AM, flyingron said:

You can argue what you like about the propriety of tipping, but unless you're in a US port, you best follow the local custom or being properly labeled the ugly American.  There are places where tipping isn't expected.   These days, they'll usually not be offended if you try (though a few places that get lots of American travellers are beginning to expect it).

 

The amounts vary widely.     Your cruise director will usually clue you in as to what the local custom is.   You'll also find things like the custom to get in (or at least tip) restroom attendants and the like.   

 

Umm cruise directors seem to have no idea one recent cruise suggested tipping in the 12 1/2 to 20% range in Aus NZ, clearly had no idea.

[ilikeanswers]

2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

You really are out of touch aren't  you?  In California, they've already started passing laws to outlaw 'freelance' contractors.

 

I have to admit I don't have much access to Californian news so cheers for the update👍. Though I am curious how does something like Uber work in California now? Or they just still going with their we don't care we will happily break the law policy 😒. 

[RocketMan275]

15 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I have to admit I don't have much access to Californian news so cheers for the update👍. Though I am curious how does something like Uber work in California now? Or they just still going with their we don't care we will happily break the law policy 😒. 

Here's a link with a bit of information:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/uber-postmates-sue-california-seeking-to-halt-law-that-could-make-drivers-employees-2019-12-30?mod=home-page

 

and this:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/california-gig-worker-protections-become-law-despite-protests-from-uber-lyft-2019-09-18

 

I suspect the real impetus behind these efforts are unions hoping to get more fees.  After all, it's difficult to organize independent contractors.  Also worth noting is the number of democrat candidates pledging to do away with right to work laws.

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by RocketMan275

[ilikeanswers]

12 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Here's a link with a bit of information:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/uber-postmates-sue-california-seeking-to-halt-law-that-could-make-drivers-employees-2019-12-30?mod=home-page

 

and this:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/california-gig-worker-protections-become-law-despite-protests-from-uber-lyft-2019-09-18

 

I suspect the real impetus behind these efforts are unions hoping to get more fees.  After all, it's difficult to organize independent contractors.  Also worth noting is the number of democrat candidates pledging to do away with right to work laws.

 

Thanks for the article very interesting and does confirm Uber's stance of lets break the law till the law fits us procedure though now it seems they have other companies to support them. 

 

Whether California's way is the right way I am glad to see somone trying to put some regulation into these gig economies. I can't speak to the American experience but I live in area where people are in and out of jobs so they dabble in gig jobs and the stories are always the same about how they abuse their hirer of contractors privileges and keep cutting into the drivers profits. For a company that claims its contractors have freedom they are far more controlling than drivers expect.