New Gratuity Rate

[The_Big_M]

20 hours ago, omeinv said:

But that your theory would be correct.  In my experience they bellow in an effort to distract from the fact they are cheap chiselers.  Look at the example we're dealing with here:  People claiming a willingness to cancel their automatic gratuities, thus negatively impacting hardworking people, over an increase of $1.00 per day, when they're being given a chance to avoid the increase by pre-paying.  The related bellow:  "If I pre-pay, the company gets to 'use my money' all the time between now and the cruise.  

 

I stand by my assertion.  The louder the bellow, the less the amount involved, ergo the cheaper the bellower. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

 

 

 

Well, my theory was based on logic.

 

That may be your experience, but it is not correct in this situation. For example, your scenario does not cater for those who planned to pay with onboard credit.

 

It seems that you are unable to accept that anyone can work on principle, and it is only possible to care about money. While that may be true of financial controllers of cruise lines, not everyone is like that.

Edited January 5, 2020 by The_Big_M

[shipshape sam]

12 hours ago, Vacationcheese said:

Only the extra added tip.  It does Not include he daily suggested tips.  

I do not think Murano's (specialty restaurant) is part of the daily gratuity, thus leaving a cash tip to the waiter when in Murano's you interact with at least 1-2 people and in our experience 2-3 people,  someone gets left out under the 'cash' tip explanation.

[LMaxwell]

On 1/4/2020 at 2:30 AM, RCLcruiser2012 said:

We always tip at restaurants (20%) so we have no issue with tipping. I feel obligated to do the automatic gratuities and then tip again on board. That seems excessive. Those who always tip 20% (think of envelope days) are now tipping twice to pay for those who don't tip! I would rather pay once and be done! 

 

So pay once and be done.  Your sense of obligation is internal, not external.  

 

The lowest tippers on the ship, percentage wise (you keep mentioning percentages) are in the most expensive rooms.  (Someone in a $10K room may be charged 2-3% of their fare as a gratuity; while someone in a $2K room may be charged 10% of their fare as a gratuity).  Using 20% flat doesn't really apply in this situation. 

 

You are paying twice because you are making that choice.  You are not doing it to subsidize anyone elses choices.  

[Bo1953]

10 hours ago, JaneStarr said:

This is exactly how I feel. Celebrity needs to make clear the total cost and what’s included at the time of booking. That way consumers can make informed budgetary decisions.
 

As far as I’m concerned, the costs and cruise inclusions should not be changed once we’ve put down our deposit in good faith.
 

Celebrity needs to find a way to grandfather in those who booked prior to the changes. The lack of functional IT systems should not be their customer's problem. 
Jane

Not sure what website, if any, you look to when making a decision as to what costs are for any sailing on X. Yet, when I (and others) go to the official website for X and make a booking (mock or real) there are a myriad of options in terms of options we can choose from to book sailings.

 

A few of these include selecting one of many cabins (pricing shown before taxes, fees and service charges), several different dining options, several different beverage options, pre-paid gratuity option, insurance option, shore excursion options, etc.. so to say one cannot budget when booking is not quite accurate, IMO.

 

At the final page where one can either make the required deposit or pay in full, we can see what the 'full' cost of the sailing will be based on the options WE choose or not. Plus we can price the sailing in many different ways with different options, again the ability to know and/or accept the full or less than full pricing of any sailing. This way one can make any combination/permutation of 'options' for a sailing to stay or be in a budget range of our choosing. No more, no less.

 

When one takes a beverage package and 'pre-pays' for it vis-a-vis OBC or cash, rather that be classic or premium, when prices change we are 'grand-fathered' in under the previous charges. If there is a sale on these packages or excursion packages we can cancel and re-book or just add to what we have selected. I rarely read posts of complaints about this or have I missed them?

 

The key factor is 'pre-paid' and NOT 'pre-selected', and of course one can pre-pay gratuities to have price protection either we choose to do this or not and gamble on any charges aboard to be the same as we knew it to be in the past.

 

My point - we are 'grand-fathered' in, when we pre-pay, if not all bets are off. Just like pre-paying or making a deposit on any sailing, I have yet to read about anyone being upset that their cabin fare which has a deposit or pre-paid was changed by X before final pay or sailing due to increases to the category? If there has been, please point me to that posting.

 

bon voyage

Edited January 5, 2020 by Bo1953

[LMaxwell]

12 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

 

 

My point - we are 'grand-fathered' in, when we pre-pay, if not all bets are off.

 

That's not grand-fathered in.  I have OBC to use against my gratuities, but can't until onboard; so either pre-pay out of my own account early, or have more OBC taken onboard.  Pre-Pay locks in the price; not pre-paying should have no material impact.  Like I said...only a few dollars but distasteful.  

[Bo1953]

1 minute ago, LMaxwell said:

 

That's not grand-fathered in.  I have OBC to use against my gratuities, but can't until onboard; so either pre-pay out of my own account early, or have more OBC taken onboard.  Pre-Pay locks in the price; not pre-paying should have no material impact.  Like I said...only a few dollars but distasteful.  

As was asked by me earlier and confirmed, OBC has NEVER been available to use to pay on-board gratuities, so your distaste about it is in the use of OBC and not pre-paying gratuities.

 

This question about pre-paying gratuities using OBC is best addressed to X directly for their response.

 

Did you not have the option to have pre-paid gratuities as a 'Perk'? If so, then I can only surmize that you felt it was not valuable enough to select it as an option, another personal choice which is fine, to be sure.

 

One can use OBC on-board for gratuities, then in effect, and as I understand it, there are a few lines which do not permit use of OBC to pre-pay gratuities at all... but this is not about other lines at all, just X.

 

bon voyage

[Mark_T]

19 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

As was asked by me earlier and confirmed, OBC has NEVER been available to use to pay on-board gratuities, so your distaste about it is in the use of OBC and not pre-paying gratuities.

 

There is little point in trying to address irrational reactions with rational debate, but I give you full credit for continuing to try.

 

 

[Bo1953]

2 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

There is little point in trying to address irrational reactions with rational debate, but I give you full credit for continuing to try.

 

 

I know and I promised myself to not be dragged down that 'smoke stack' on-going... LOL

 

bon voyage

[ONT-CA]

We have enough exposure to cruising to have a fundamental understanding of "tipping".  The pool of charged tips are distributed in some format to specific crew members.  Who we do not know but have heard from those on the lower eshelon that those on the upper have been taking a larger mount since the installation of this ruse. The total amount varies from cruise to cruise but there is a minimum that the agency who supplies ship's labour (yes they are not employees of the line) will pay by making up the difference should we not all be so generous.  If and I say if staff are meant to give up actual tips to the fund then there is little question that that is not being done. The sleight of hand in receiving cash is truly amazing. Since sailing with P&O we have reclaimed our tipping rights and without question expend more currency than that charged by other lines.  No one delivers anything to our cabin without receiving a tip. It is an exhilarating experience retuning to the concept of giving rather than paying. I find those opposed to our way of thinking tend to be more of the shareholder class.  We will be so happy to hear that all lines will follow the P&O example.  Yes, this current service "charge" will only be added to the fare but that is where it should always have been.

[RealBatman]

My original statement (page 1) stands.

 

"Sheesh"

 

I'm astounded by the attempts to justify a position to not help these hard working people! Everything from suggesting that some of the money is not going to the crew; to the principle isn't to my liking; to attempting to determine the percentage of increase; to not wanting the company to have the extra few dollars ahead of the cruise; to...

 

"Sheesh"

 

IT'S $1 PER DAY PER PERSON PER CABIN!  USE YOUR PRECIOUS OBC TO PAY THE EXTRA $14 (if allowed)! 

Or dig around your car for some spare change, or return your empty beer bottles (in Canada) for a refund,  or don't buy that extra Starbucks (or Tim's) coffee this week! If you find the principle distasteful... go somewhere else! (Better yet, find something that is truly important to be pissed off about).

 

"Sheesh"

 

I learned a new short form (thanks wpgcycler)...   

SMH.

 

 

[LMaxwell]

2 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

As was asked by me earlier and confirmed, OBC has NEVER been available to use to pay on-board gratuities, so your distaste about it is in the use of OBC and not pre-paying gratuities.

 

This question about pre-paying gratuities using OBC is best addressed to X directly for their response.

 

Did you not have the option to have pre-paid gratuities as a 'Perk'? If so, then I can only surmize that you felt it was not valuable enough to select it as an option, another personal choice which is fine, to be sure.

 

One can use OBC on-board for gratuities, then in effect, and as I understand it, there are a few lines which do not permit use of OBC to pre-pay gratuities at all... but this is not about other lines at all, just X.

 

bon voyage

 

I didn't know OBC could not be used on X to pay gratuities.  

 

edit:  further research indicates postings from this week where people used OBC for gratuities.  You just can not pre-pay them with OBC 

Edited January 5, 2020 by LMaxwell

[LMaxwell]

22 minutes ago, RealBatman said:

My original statement (page 1) stands.

 

"Sheesh"

 

I'm astounded by the attempts to justify a position to not help these hard working people! Everything from suggesting that some of the money is not going to the crew; to the principle isn't to my liking; to attempting to determine the percentage of increase; to not wanting the company to have the extra few dollars ahead of the cruise; to...

 

"Sheesh"

 

IT'S $1 PER DAY PER PERSON PER CABIN!  USE YOUR PRECIOUS OBC TO PAY THE EXTRA $14 (if allowed)! 

Or dig around your car for some spare change, or return your empty beer bottles (in Canada) for a refund,  or don't buy that extra Starbucks (or Tim's) coffee this week! If you find the principle distasteful... go somewhere else! (Better yet, find something that is truly important to be pissed off about).

 

"Sheesh"

 

I learned a new short form (thanks wpgcycler)...   

SMH.

 

 

 

I haven't attempted to justify any position in order not to help hard working people.  

 

I've expressed displeasure that a company is altering the terms of a fully paid contract.  

 

If the argument boils down to "It's only a dollar" let the billion dollar corporation find it in their pocket. If it's not much to me, it certainly is not much to them either.  They have many more beer bottles to return.  

 

Do you think the crew are making any more or less than what they are contracted for?  Do you feel that people who take the option to pre-pay at prior rates are depriving the crew of money?

 

🙂 

Edited January 5, 2020 by LMaxwell

[Mark_T]

15 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

I've expressed displeasure that a company is altering the terms of a fully paid contract. 

 

Where in your contract are the gratuity rates stated to be fixed at the point where you paid for the rest of the cruise?

 

You had, and still have the opportunity to pay at the old rate, or you can roll the dice by leaving this cost until you are onboard, and like any other onboard cost the rates can and do vary over time.

[Bo1953]

16 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

I haven't attempted to justify any position in order not to help hard working people.  

 

I've expressed displeasure that a company is altering the terms of a fully paid contract.  

 

If the argument boils down to "It's only a dollar" let the billion dollar corporation find it in their pocket. If it's not much to me, it certainly is not much to them either.  They have many more beer bottles to return.  

 

Do you think the crew are making any more or less than what they are contracted for?  Do you feel that people who take the option to pre-pay at prior rates are depriving the crew of money?

 

🙂 

I have asked and not received a response from anyone, yet, where in X's contract does it talk about gratuities?

 

I do not believe it is in my contract at all, if it is in yours, I would enjoy the opportunity to sign that one.

 

Were your contract was 'fully paid' then gratuities will be included in that payment. Given the fact that many of us do not 'pre-pay' the gratuities, then the sailing is not 'fully paid' only a few of the essential components, i.e. cabin, food, limited beverages unless a package is purchased, mandatory taxes, fees and port charges for starters... all else will be additional.

 

bon voyage

[davekathy]

42 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

edit:  further research indicates postings from this week where people used OBC for gratuities.  You just can not pre-pay them with OBC

Correct. 

[OuiOnboard]

Choices. Celebrity has chosen ways of compensating people who toil on their ships. The crew have chosen to work on these ships and be compensated in ways prescribed by Celebrity. Passengers choose to participate in the compensation of the crew in various ways and to different degrees. Yes, choices. 

[ONT-CA]

6 minutes ago, OuiOnboard said:

Choices. Celebrity has chosen ways of compensating people who toil on their ships. The crew have chosen to work on these ships and be compensated in ways prescribed by Celebrity. Passengers choose to participate in the compensation of the crew in various ways and to different degrees. Yes, choices. 

 

I reiterate, the staff aboard ships work for an agency.  The line pays that agency for it's labour requirements and they in turn pay their clients wages.  The agency also distributes the "tips", specified to a minimum amount with additional amounts above that as collected from the passenger's tip charges.  It is like contributing to an employee fund and has nothing to do with gratuity, gift, tip or reward 

[omeinv]

Never Mind

Edited January 5, 2020 by omeinv

[omeinv]

Never mind

[davekathy]

2 minutes ago, omeinv said:

Never mind

Exactly my feeling also...😉

[ONT-CA]

I see that my post, #218 was edited and taken out of context .

[davekathy]

2 minutes ago, ONT-CA said:

I see that my post, #218 was edited and taken out of context .

Report it using the report option. 

[LMaxwell]

8 hours ago, Mark_T said:

There is little point in trying to address irrational reactions with rational debate, but I give you full credit for continuing to try.

 

 

 

Bo could try getting facts correct...

[LMaxwell]

6 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

I have asked and not received a response from anyone, yet, where in X's contract does it talk about gratuities?

 

I do not believe it is in my contract at all, if it is in yours, I would enjoy the opportunity to sign that one.

 

Were your contract was 'fully paid' then gratuities will be included in that payment. Given the fact that many of us do not 'pre-pay' the gratuities, then the sailing is not 'fully paid' only a few of the essential components, i.e. cabin, food, limited beverages unless a package is purchased, mandatory taxes, fees and port charges for starters... all else will be additional.

 

bon voyage

 

It is in your guest ticket contract; should you not be booked currently you can find it on Celebrity website.  Search for Guest Ticket Contract it is in the "During Your Cruise" section.  

 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by LMaxwell

[LMaxwell]

6 hours ago, Mark_T said:

 

Where in your contract are the gratuity rates stated to be fixed at the point where you paid for the rest of the cruise?

 

You had, and still have the opportunity to pay at the old rate, or you can roll the dice by leaving this cost until you are onboard, and like any other onboard cost the rates can and do vary over time.

 

I agree onboard costs can change over time, however Celebrity explicitly publishes their rates on their website. I don't see it as a roll of the dice such as specialty dining or excursion changing.