Sky Princess Fire/Life Safety Issue - Anyone Else Seen This?

[CineGraphic]

On 1/1/2020 at 7:24 PM, Hlitner said:

Failure to enforce those SOLAS regulations are very serious violations.

 

Since passengers, both those with scooters and those without, come and go from their cabins all day & night, Princess seems to be relying on reports/complaints from fellow passengers, instead of patrolling every hallway on every deck.

 

[AtlantaCruiser72]

11 hours ago, pms4104 said:

The disability laws mandate REASONABLE accomodation ... my guess is fhat Princess could disallow virtually all electric and battery-operated mobility devices ... and not run afoul of the law

 

Viking Cruises has banned all mobility scooters on both their river and ocean fleets. Since they operate in/out of US ports I'm still unclear as to how they are not being sued for lack of "reasonable" accommodation under the ADA. 

[AtlantaCruiser72]

duplicate post deleted

Edited January 4, 2020 by AtlantaCruiser72

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Triplicate post deleted.....

 

my iPad was acting up - sorry

Edited January 4, 2020 by AtlantaCruiser72

[mcrcruiser]

Once when I used my own scooter ,before both hip replacements , the cabin attendants would  move it & charge it for me  over night .When I wanted the scooter they brought it to me . Problems solved 

[mcrcruiser]

12 minutes ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

 

Viking Cruises has banned all mobility scooters on both their river and ocean fleets. Since they operate in/out of US ports I'm still unclear as to how they are not being sued for lack of "reasonable" accommodation under the ADA. 

You would think that it is only a matter of time before Viking pays the price for violating the ADA in American ports 

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

 

Viking Cruises has banned all mobility scooters on both their river and ocean fleets. Since they operate in/out of US ports I'm still unclear as to how they are not being sued for lack of "reasonable" accommodation under the ADA. 

 

5 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

You would think that it is only a matter of time before Viking pays the price for violating the ADA in American ports 

What most people don't understand is that SCOTUS has ruled that foreign flag cruise ships do not need to meet all the requirements of the ADA.  See their ruling in Spector v. NCL, where SCOTUS ruled that accessibility to all places on the ship can be limited if it would require a major redesign of the ship, and that SOLAS trumps ADA.  Further, with regards to the ship's "internal policies and procedures" (for instance how lines regulate service animals and mobility devices), these do not fall within the purview of the ADA, unless Congress amends the law to specifically mention foreign flag cruise ships.  In the 15 years since the Spector ruling, Congress has not seen fit to amend the ADA with regards to cruise ships.

[pms4104]

7 hours ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

 

Viking Cruises has banned all mobility scooters on both their river and ocean fleets. Since they operate in/out of US ports I'm still unclear as to how they are not being sued for lack of "reasonable" accommodation under the ADA. 

Perhaps they permit manually operated devices ... that may be enough to satisfy the laws 

 

[pms4104]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

 

What most people don't understand is that SCOTUS has ruled that foreign flag cruise ships do not need to meet all the requirements of the ADA.  See their ruling in Spector v. NCL, where SCOTUS ruled that accessibility to all places on the ship can be limited if it would require a major redesign of the ship, and that SOLAS trumps ADA.  Further, with regards to the ship's "internal policies and procedures" (for instance how lines regulate service animals and mobility devices), these do not fall within the purview of the ADA, unless Congress amends the law to specifically mention foreign flag cruise ships.  In the 15 years since the Spector ruling, Congress has not seen fit to amend the ADA with regards to cruise ships.

Do the disability laws specifically include scooters as that which must be permitted everywhere, specifically in ships? 

 

Or do cruiselines allow them as a courtesy?

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, pms4104 said:

Perhaps they permit manually operated devices ... that may be enough to satisfy the laws 

 

Yes, they do.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, pms4104 said:

Do the disability laws specifically include scooters as that which must be permitted everywhere, specifically in ships? 

 

Or do cruiselines allow them as a courtesy?

The ADA does not specify anything with regards to ships, specifically.  Interpretations and regulations formulated by the DOJ do apply to ships, but for the most part, only US flag ships.  As far as I know, Spector prohibits discrimination against people with mobility disabilities, but does not prohibit the cruise lines from setting their own requirements with regards to those mobility aids onboard.  This simple discussion shows that use of scooters could be argued as counter to SOLAS, and therefore, by Spector, not regulated by ADA on a foreign ship.  Also, the requirement that accessibility not require major alterations to the ship means that widening passageways and making "parking areas" would be against Spector, as SOLAS determines the size of passageways.

[pms4104]

18 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The ADA does not specify anything with regards to ships, specifically.  Interpretations and regulations formulated by the DOJ do apply to ships, but for the most part, only US flag ships.  As far as I know, Spector prohibits discrimination against people with mobility disabilities, but does not prohibit the cruise lines from setting their own requirements with regards to those mobility aids onboard.  This simple discussion shows that use of scooters could be argued as counter to SOLAS, and therefore, by Spector, not regulated by ADA on a foreign ship.  Also, the requirement that accessibility not require major alterations to the ship means that widening passageways and making "parking areas" would be against Spector, as SOLAS determines the size of passageways.

Thank you ... you are an amazingly knowledgeable resource here

[pablo222]

On 1/1/2020 at 3:14 PM, Outerdog said:

 

I would take it to Deck 16 aft and leave it there.

 

I think if you did this..

 

And, the person requiring the scooter were somehow injured in an emergency...

...you would have huge personal liability.

 

Additionally, I think the ship might well put you off for theft, even without an emergency.

 

You generally can't administer self help without risk.

 

The appropriate course of action is to seek out and complain to the security officer.