Coronavirus paranoia on ships?

[luv2kroooz]

42 minutes ago, GA Dave said:

Current # of people with coronavirus worldwide = 42,957

Current world population = 7,763,721,200

% of people with coronavirus = .0005533 %

 

Headline cbsnews.com, quoting chief of the World Health Organization.

 

"Coronavirus presents "grave threat" to world, WHO chief warns as death toll tops 1,000."

 

Maybe a little concerned?

[alrose251]

On 1/27/2020 at 6:23 AM, sanger727 said:

 

The best way to protect against getting sick is by frequent handwashing. People often catch minor illnesses when they travel. Can happen on the plane when air is constantly circulated, Can happen on the plan from touching an armrest or bathroom door handle that has a virus left on it, can happen on a cruise from being in close contact with many many people who are touching the same stair railings, elevator buttons, buffet utensils, etc as you. Yes, NCL has hand sanitizer stations around the buffet. Not sure about the MDR but that's not really any different than any restaurant you might go to at home. There are employees at the buffet spritizing your handles with the santizier so it is monitored, but they also won't chase someone down who skips it. Buffet is self serve. Cruise lines rely on self-reporting for people who are ill. I don't think they are currently employing any cruise line wide temperature testing or speciality screening; but they may in Chinese ports. 

 

Millions and millions of people cruise a year. A vast vast vast majority do not die. And those that do don't die from colds, flus, or noroviruses unless they were comprimised to begin with. You may get sick, just like you might on a plane, at work, in a gym, in a doctor's office, etc. Best you can do is wash your hands often and especially before eating (so could do the hand sanitizer before entering buffet, fill your plate using the shared utensils, and then wash your hands before eating).

Good point, I think it is necessary to wash your hand again after touching all those thongs!  No telling if others have washed their hands!

[desibee]

2 hours ago, Farts said:

https://abcnews.go.com/International/death-doctor-blew-whistle-coronavirus-sparks-outrage-china/story?id=68824245

 

 Dr. Li Wenliang, 34 yo previously healthy man, was one of the original whistle blowers and he died. 

 

You panicking yet?

Nope.

 

1) It is not currently known if Dr. Li was previously healthy.

2) He's a health care worker, a job that puts him at significantly higher risk than the every day population.

3) He's from the epicenter of the outbreak in a healthcare system that was already overcrowded and poorly structured even before the outbreak.

4) There is still a grand total of 2 deaths of people outside of that very specific section of mainland China.  If this virus was really as deadly as you fear, shouldn't we be seeing more people dying in other places by now?  The number discrepancy between death rate inside Hubei and outside of Hubei tells us what WHO already mentioned when they first declared the coronavirus a global emergency, i.e. that it's dangerous for countries with overburdened or poorly structured health care systems.

 

You still panicking, Dr. Passes-Gas?

[GA Dave]

1 hour ago, blcruising said:

 

Headline cbsnews.com, quoting chief of the World Health Organization.

 

"Coronavirus presents "grave threat" to world, WHO chief warns as death toll tops 1,000."

 

Maybe a little concerned?

Actually, I am more concerned about getting killed driving home from work than I am about dying from coronavirus.  The chances of being killed in a car crash in the USA are much, much higher than dying from coronavirus.

[hamrag]

1 hour ago, alrose251 said:

Good point, I think it is necessary to wash your hand again after touching all those thongs!  No telling if others have washed their hands!

 

Why would you be touching thongs...😲

[luv2kroooz]

Just now, GA Dave said:

Actually, I am more concerned about getting killed driving home from work than I am about dying from coronavirus.  The chances of being killed in a car crash in the USA are much, much higher than dying from coronavirus.

No disputing that. My query related to Coronavirus.

[joeyancho]

On 1/26/2020 at 3:38 PM, PortFees45 said:

There's no real risk (yet), but lets face it lots of cruisers are...to put it politely..."low-information voters." I can see some ugly situations developing on a cruise with a large Chinese tour group as is often the case...someone sees someone coughing or sneezing...and then you get panic.

Nice that you accuse Princess cruiser of being stupid and racist. 

[buckeyefrank]

On 1/26/2020 at 8:32 PM, mugtech said:

There are many cities in China in which many people wear masks all the time due to constant pollution, not sure why people on a cruise should stay home rather than wear a mask.  Don't have to be worried, just taking proper precautions, like washing hands before dinner.  Since people may be contagious before showing any symptoms, wearing a mask could be doing you a favor.  What is the problem with wearing masks?  Think there might be more robberies?

Washing your hands and not touching your mouth is great advice, however; the masks are virtually worthless with this virus and the coronavirus is spread airborne also.  Washing hands won't help that.

[perditax]

Why are you guys quoting a post that's two weeks old. 

[elwood_98034]

I work in a big ER. Last week people were making fun of me for wearing a mask with coughing patients. Last night there was one cough, and everyone was instantly wearing one.

 

Cruise well, my friends.

[Farts]

2 hours ago, desibee said:

Nope.

 

1) It is not currently known if Dr. Li was previously healthy.

2) He's a health care worker, a job that puts him at significantly higher risk than the every day population.

3) He's from the epicenter of the outbreak in a healthcare system that was already overcrowded and poorly structured even before the outbreak.

4) There is still a grand total of 2 deaths of people outside of that very specific section of mainland China.  If this virus was really as deadly as you fear, shouldn't we be seeing more people dying in other places by now?  The number discrepancy between death rate inside Hubei and outside of Hubei tells us what WHO already mentioned when they first declared the coronavirus a global emergency, i.e. that it's dangerous for countries with overburdened or poorly structured health care systems.

 

You still panicking, Dr. Passes-Gas?

Yea. I am concerned. 

 

I have to work with sick pts bc of my job. I am at a significantly higher risk of getting Covid19. I ask all of my pts if they have traveled outside of the US during the last 60 days. 

 

You are free to not be concerned.

 

Real talk and joking aside: health care workers have to take the risk of caring for ppl who could potentially infect us. Our concerns shouldn't be minimized bc we are there to care for you when you come to the hospital or clinic, rain or shine. The occupational hazard is a real concern, esp since one of our young colleagues who blew the whistle has now died from the virus. 

 

And to be clear, deaths are not the only statistic that I am concerned about. Going into ARDS and ending up on the vent for days to weeks is also concerning to me. I don't have those stats as the CDC hasn't released them to the best of my knowledge. 

 

Lastly, mortality outside of china isn't the only statistic that I am worried about. if there are mass outbreaks outside of china, then for sure the mortality will be very high outside of china. Just bc it's not happening in your backyard yet doesn't mean it's not a big deal imo. But feel free to disagree

[Nn2036]

There is enhanced screening during embarkation as well as ban of Chinese nationals due to coronavirus.

 

Is there any additional measure during the journey on the ship as well to prevent spreading of pathogen within the ship as well?

[desibee]

17 minutes ago, Farts said:

18 minutes ago, Farts said:

Yea. I am concerned. 

 

I have to work with sick pts bc of my job. I am at a significantly higher risk of getting Covid19. I ask all of my pts if they have traveled outside of the US during the last 60 days. 

 

You are free to not be concerned.

 

Real talk and joking aside: health care workers have to take the risk of caring for ppl who could potentially infect us. Our concerns shouldn't be minimized bc we are there to care for you when you come to the hospital or clinic, rain or shine. The occupational hazard is a real concern, esp since one of our young colleagues who blew the whistle has now died from the virus. 

 

And to be clear, deaths are not the only statistic that I am concerned about. Going into ARDS and ending up on the vent for days to weeks is also concerning to me. I don't have those stats as the CDC hasn't released them to the best of my knowledge. 

 

Lastly, mortality outside of china isn't the only statistic that I am worried about. if there are mass outbreaks outside of china, then for sure the mortality will be very high outside of china. Just bc it's not happening in your backyard yet doesn't mean it's not a big deal imo. But feel free to disagree

 

 

Obviously I feel quite free to disagree. 🙂

 

But seriously, yes health care workers are always more at-risk to infectious disease than other community members due to the very nature of their jobs, and that holds true for any illness not just coronavirus.  However, following proper policies and procedures regarding sanitary disposal, hand-washing, etc. will most definitely benefit you and chances are these precautions will be more than enough to keep you safe.

 

You do have to keep in mind that your whistle-blowing colleague was in hospital in the epicenter of the outbreak under an overburdened system and therefore may not have been receiving the amount and quality of care needed for him to fight off his illness.  Most likely the same scenario won't hold true if you are in North America or countries with similar or better health care systems that are better prepared to accommodate the sheer numbers an outbreak like this would cause.  As I have REPEATEDLY said, if you are in mainland China right now, and especially if you are in Hubei province, you have every reason to worry and be concerned and some restrictive quarantine measures are needed.  If you are in a neighboring country that also has massive population numbers and an inadequate or underfunded health care system, then you should be worried too and urging officials to be proactive in preparing for the virus.

 

But for those of us outside of those specific areas, it really isn't something to create mass panic over.

[Farts]

1 hour ago, desibee said:

 

Obviously I feel quite free to disagree. 🙂

 

But seriously, yes health care workers are always more at-risk to infectious disease than other community members due to the very nature of their jobs, and that holds true for any illness not just coronavirus.  However, following proper policies and procedures regarding sanitary disposal, hand-washing, etc. will most definitely benefit you and chances are these precautions will be more than enough to keep you safe.

 

You do have to keep in mind that your whistle-blowing colleague was in hospital in the epicenter of the outbreak under an overburdened system and therefore may not have been receiving the amount and quality of care needed for him to fight off his illness.  Most likely the same scenario won't hold true if you are in North America or countries with similar or better health care systems that are better prepared to accommodate the sheer numbers an outbreak like this would cause.  As I have REPEATEDLY said, if you are in mainland China right now, and especially if you are in Hubei province, you have every reason to worry and be concerned and some restrictive quarantine measures are needed.  If you are in a neighboring country that also has massive population numbers and an inadequate or underfunded health care system, then you should be worried too and urging officials to be proactive in preparing for the virus.

 

But for those of us outside of those specific areas, it really isn't something to create mass panic over.

I help create, moderate, and track those policies at my hospital. All hospital workers are supposed to follow good hand hygiene regardless of what outbreaks there are. But just bc you follow proper precautions, doesn't mean you aren't immune to getting an infectious dx. 

 

You are making a lot of assumptions about the outbreak in china. What evidence do you have to support your claims?

 

And right now, there are no drugs to properly fight Covid19 and to give pts "quality of care needed for him to fight off his illness". We flat out don't have vaccines or antivirals directed against it.

[perditax]

4 minutes ago, Farts said:

I help create, moderate, and track those policies at my hospital. All hospital workers are supposed to follow good hand hygiene regardless of what outbreaks there are. But just bc you follow proper precautions, doesn't mean you aren't immune to getting an infectious dx. 

 

You are making a lot of assumptions about the outbreak in china. What evidence do you have to support your claims?

 

And right now, there are no drugs to properly fight Covid19 and to give pts "quality of care needed for him to fight off his illness". We flat out don't have vaccines or antivirals directed against it.

I really don’t mean this as badly as it’s going to come off, but I genuinely don’t understand how the all the doctors and scientists posting here this week have so much time during the day to post. 🙂

[Farts]

3 minutes ago, perditax said:

I really don’t mean this as badly as it’s going to come off, but I genuinely don’t understand how the all the doctors and scientists posting here this week have so much time during the day to post. 🙂

procrastination. we all do it. 

[Fartlek]

I’m not a doctor but I think it’s too early to tell how serious this things going to be. As of today, I don’t believe one person has died outside China. That’s very significant when you consider the 10,000’s that die from the flue .I truly feel sorry for everyone stuck on a cruise and the people in China but until it becomes a world epidemic I don’t think anybody should be too worried yet.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Fartlek

[luv2kroooz]

2 hours ago, Nn2036 said:

There is enhanced screening during embarkation as well as ban of Chinese nationals due to coronavirus.

 

Is there any additional measure during the journey on the ship as well to prevent spreading of pathogen within the ship as well?

The good hygiene of passengers is critical, too. Washing hands with soap and hot water frequently. Not sneezing and coughing into hands and then you hung other surfaced.

 

I don't have first hand knowledge, but NCL has included this general statement as part of their infrequent communications with passengers and the general public....We have implemented additional cleaning and disinfection protocols on board all voyages. These protocols will be enforced in addition to our already rigorous sanitization standards in place.

[mugtech]

Royal Caribbean cancelled a 9 day cruise originally Hong Kong to Singapore, was changed to rt Singapore leaving on 2/24/20.  Cruise before it also on Quantum also rescheduled 9 day rt from Singapore leaving on 2/15/20, no news yet if it is also cancelled.

[desibee]

36 minutes ago, Farts said:

I help create, moderate, and track those policies at my hospital. All hospital workers are supposed to follow good hand hygiene regardless of what outbreaks there are. But just bc you follow proper precautions, doesn't mean you aren't immune to getting an infectious dx. 

 

You are making a lot of assumptions about the outbreak in china. What evidence do you have to support your claims?

 

And right now, there are no drugs to properly fight Covid19 and to give pts "quality of care needed for him to fight off his illness". We flat out don't have vaccines or antivirals directed against it.

 

What assumptions am I making?  From my point of view, you're the one making a lot of assumptions about the virus based on media speculation and government policy rather than pure science.  You yourself stated that you have no stats to support your fears about ARDS.

 

The basic facts are that most cases of Coronavirus result in symptoms not unlike a flu or cold, with treatment being the same as you might do for a flu or cold, plus the use of humidifiers to ease respiratory distress.

 

We will have a much better idea of where we stand with this virus in a month or two.  Until then, the low level of infection outside of mainland China, despite this being a fairly infectious disease, is pretty reassuring.  It speaks to the idea that regions that are well-prepared to handle outbreaks like these will do much better than an unprepared region like Wuhan.

[elwood_98034]

1 hour ago, Farts said:

procrastination. we all do it. 

Maybe they work evenings, and are free during the day. Or live in a different time zone.

Edited February 12, 2020 by elwood_98034

[perditax]

50 minutes ago, Fartlek said:

I’m not a doctor but I think it’s too early to tell how serious this things going to be. As of today, I don’t believe one person has died outside China. That’s very significant when you consider the 10,000’s that die from the flue .I truly feel sorry for everyone stuck on a cruise and the people in China but until it becomes a world epidemic I don’t think anybody should be too worried yet.

There was a death in the Philippines, and I think one in Hong Kong.

[Fartlek]

2 minutes ago, perditax said:

There was a death in the Philippines, and I think one in Hong Kong.

I just found that out as well. Thanks. I feel sorry for those people and all the families. However with tens of thousands dying of the flu it’s still relatively minor outside China. Things can change fast, but At the this time I wouldn’t be afraid of going on a cruise anywhere outside of Asia. 

[luv2kroooz]

51 minutes ago, mugtech said:

Royal Caribbean cancelled a 9 day cruise originally Hong Kong to Singapore, was changed to rt Singapore leaving on 2/24/20.  Cruise before it also on Quantum also rescheduled 9 day rt from Singapore leaving on 2/15/20, no news yet if it is also cancelled.

It is reported on the Quantum roll calls, these are now cancelled due to safety with full refunds being provided. I think it just happened this afternoon.

[Farts]

15 hours ago, elwood_98034 said:

Maybe they work evenings, and are free during the day. Or live in a different time zone.

I am speaking of my specific case. lol!