Voyager Cruises in Asia; Feb & March 2020

[Travelcat2]

7 hours ago, forgap said:

Didn’t you say you had decided to limit your posts?  
 

 

i believe that I said that I was taking a break.  Thank you for spending the time to notice (I think)😎. No one, including me, expected the coronavirus issue to continue as long as it has. As long as this issue remains in the forefront, I will post.  I cannot imagine any cruiser that is not interested or does not have input or questions on this subject.

[mrlevin]

26 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

 No one, including me, expected the coronavirus issue to continue as long as it has. 

 

Speak for yourself.  This is just the beginning.  Death rate in Iran (as percentage of population) will be a lot higher than in China.  When borders within Europe are closed (temporarily so far) it will have major impact.  When pandemic sets in, and a vaccine has yet to be developed, watch out.  This isn't extremely deadly but it is extremely contagious.  This is truly just the beginning and no one knows where it will end.

 

Marc

 

Edited to add:  We could probably modify this thread to discuss Voyager cruises in the Med.  Starting with 14 June cruise, all Voyager cruises are wide open with Cat H guarantee usually available.  With the outbreak in Italy growing, I will not be surprised if Regent parks Voyager until the Lisbon to Cape Town cruise next fall.

Edited February 24, 2020 by mrlevin

[Travelcat2]

2 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

 

Speak for yourself.  This is just the beginning.  Death rate in Iran (as percentage of population) will be a lot higher than in China.  When borders within Europe are closed (temporarily so far) it will have major impact.  When pandemic sets in, and a vaccine has yet to be developed, watch out.  This isn't extremely deadly but it is extremely contagious.  This is truly just the beginning and no one knows where it will end.

 

Marc

 

Agree that no one knows when it will end.  One school of thought is that it will stop spreading when the weather heats up.  Also agree that coronavirus is not as deadly as other major epidemics (this has been stated by multiple sources. )

 

What I find quite sad is your negative predictions.  Since “we” (meaning all of us) cannot predict when/if this will end, isn’t it better to take a neutral stand on the situation rather than frightening people more than they already are?

[mrlevin]

Frightening versus preparing; I have always believed in the Coast Guard Motto Semper Paratus.  In the last week I have worked at stocking my pantry but at the same time made plans for future trips.  I am a realist.

 

Marc

Edited February 24, 2020 by mrlevin

[Travelcat2]

1 minute ago, mrlevin said:

Frightening versus preparing; I have always believed in the Coast Guard Motto Semper Paratus.  In the last week I have worked at stocking my pantry but at the same time made plans for future trips.  I am a realist; and this isn't my first rodeo; I saw what happened after 9/11 (lots of cheap cruises).

 

Marc

 

Do you really think that this is about getting “lots of cheap cruises”?  If that is your belief, I have nothing else to say to you.  For me, it is about broken dreams, fear for the elderly, possible loss of jobs for crew members, etc.  From my perspective, there is no positive to this situation.

[CruisetheCs]

6 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

This back and forth posting is not helping anyone.......

 

Let's stop arguing and allow affected passengers share their information.......

 

 

I think maybe the way to stop arguments is to stop posting responses to arguments?  Doesn't that stop the back and forth???

 

[friedmom]

1 hour ago, Travelcat2 said:

. No one, including me, expected the coronavirus issue to continue as long as it has.

Really???? It’s nowhere near done. Trust me.
Everything that has happened, including the mid-cruise cancellation of the 2/12 Voyager itinerary, was completely predictable. I predicted it, and I’m nobody important. (Although I do have credentials of an MD and a PhD in microbiology, with a fairly good understanding of virology and epidemiology). Which is why I’m so upset with Regent. They didn’t seek good advice, or if they did, they ignored it and didn’t share with prospective passengers.They should have cancelled that cruise, or at least given those passengers the opportunity to cancel with a full refund. This is playing out exactly as expected by knowledgeable people and will continue to do so. I know we now, unfortunately, live in a culture that pays little respect to science, at least in the US. But it plays out in predictable ways, despite our disbelief. So be it.

[pdaniel]

10 hours ago, forgap said:

Didn’t you say you had decided to limit your posts?  
 

Underrated post!

 
Thank you

[Kiwifromkiev]

1 hour ago, friedmom said:

They didn’t seek good advice, or if they did, they ignored it and didn’t share with prospective passengers.They should have cancelled that cruise, or at least given those passengers the opportunity to cancel with a full refund. This is playing out exactly as expected by knowledgeable people and will continue to do so.

 

are you suggesting that more cruises should have been cancelled? or that RSSC should have started cancelling earlier?

[Travelcat2]

When all else fails and things become snarky, I go back to research.  

 

First is influenza which remains the #1 virus that kills the most people worldwide every year.  Here is an interesting article about the flu:

 

"Flu season is hitting its stride right now in the US. So far, the CDC has estimated (based on weekly influenza surveillance data) that at least 12,000 people have died from influenza between Oct. 1, 2019 through Feb. 1, 2020, and the number of deaths may be as high as 30,000. 

The CDC also estimates that up to 31 million Americans have caught the flu this season, with 210,000 to 370,000 flu sufferers hospitalized because of the virus." 

 

Another virus from this century was SARS (also began in China).  It was rampant from November, 2002 - 2003 with a few new cases in April, 2004.  There were 8,098 cases and 74 deaths.

 

According to USA Today (and other sources), covid-19 could become a seasonal virus.

 

Many people believe that this virus could subside as the weather heats up.  This is good and bad news.  One article said that were two "extreme scenario's" for the virus:

 

1.  That it will subside in the spring and might move to warmer climates (yes - I know, there are warm climates that currently have the virus.)  However, if you look at South America, New Zealand (that has one possible case of the virus) and Australia,  (the numbers are extremely low).  Their summer ends next month (when our winter ends).

 

2.  The other "extreme scenario" was mentioned above ....... that this will become a seasonal virus - similar to influenza.

 

friedmom - your comments and background are most interesting and impressive.  Are you saying that the CDC, WHO and other health organizations are likely wrong?  Just curious since we are seeing and hearing so many conflicting scenarios.

 

In terms of Regent, as been discussed in-depth on the coronavirus thread, by "jumping the gun" (so to speak), they had at least one passenger redirected to Bali through Hong Kong.  At that moment in time, they had no way to know that Hong Kong would be the next country that would be added to the list of countries that passengers cannot go through or they would not be permitted on the ship.  

 

Many countries appear to be in chaos.  One day you cannot dock in Ha Long Bay, Vietnam, for instance, and 3 days later the government issued a notice that closing ports was wrong - they were losing tourism and the ports reopened.  So, all cruise Iines are dealing with SOLAS, countries that make last-minute decisions (that may be right or wrong).  IMHO, Regent had no reason to cancel cruises earlier than they did.  

 

Also in my opinion, the worst debacle of the past month has been the Diamond Princess.  If someone wanted to create the worst case scenario, I doubt if they would have come up with what the powers that be at Princess cruises came up with.  The only positive was the lessons learned of how not to handle the situation and how 1 case of coronavirus can become over 600 if you do the wrong things.

 

Thankfully, the Voyager Asian cruises have been cancelled (not sure if they had any scheduled for April) and hopefully the ship is out of the area.  The rest of Regent's ships are in fairly safe areas of the world..... places where they are more likely to contract the flu than coronavirus.    

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Travelcat2

[Kiwifromkiev]

1 hour ago, Travelcat2 said:

When all else fails and things become snarky, I go back to research.  

 

First is influenza which remains the #1 virus that kills the most people worldwide every year.     

 

I agree with you, TC2, as a lot of what is happening now is due to hysteria, with best intentions - in some places, and trying to discredit countries and governments in others (thinking staged "protests" in Ukraine). Media of course, is having a field day - bad news sell. And we are absorbing all these news - true, false and in between, like sponge. And panicking, speculating etc, etc, ,etc. It is hard not to, but sometimes it is better not to have fuel added to our speculations (nothing to what is discussed in this thread, just a philosophical observation in general).

 

The bottom line is - if one's cruise is not cancelled, and one is not willing to say good bye to thousands or tens of thousands of $ as it is too late to cancel and insurance does not cover willy-nilly cancellations, we may as well try to enjoy our planned vacations and pray for the best (and take reasonable precautions, o fcourse). IMHO

[journeyfan]

On 2/22/2020 at 7:03 AM, flossie009 said:

Thanks for the clarification. 

The FCC compensation for the cancelled Mar 27 voyage requires booking and sailing by the end of 2020 i.e. within the next 10 months.

flossie009, perhaps with all the nitpicking going on, we should stop calling it a " 25% FCC."  It's a 25% FCC per person so for most travelers, that means a 50% FCC.

[Sharle]

6 minutes ago, journeyfan said:

flossie009, perhaps with all the nitpicking going on, we should stop calling it a " 25% FCC."  It's a 25% FCC per person so for most travelers, that means a 50% FCC.

I vowed not to post on this topic again as it has gotten so out of hand but I can't let this go. 25% per person is off the per person fare so it is still 25% of the total paid, not 50%.

[journeyfan]

30 minutes ago, Sharle said:

I vowed not to post on this topic again as it has gotten so out of hand but I can't let this go. 25% per person is off the per person fare so it is still 25% of the total paid, not 50%.

Maybe so, but I booked my Future Cruise yesterday.  The cost before savings was $24,993 and after Regent deducted all the savings like Early Booking, Bonus Discount, Additional Savings and Future Cruise Credits, the total I have to pay for the cruise came to $3,881.

That sounds pretty good to me.

 

[mdunne48]

Reality check:  Just to put the numbers related to Influenza and Covid-19 in perspective to each other.  There have been 12,000 influenza related deaths in the United States this year from a probable 31,000,000 cases according to the US CDC.  This translates into a morbidity rate of ~.03% due to Influenza.  Covid-19 has 78,900 cases worldwide with 2,465 deaths as of this morning. That translates into a morbidity rate of ~3.1%.  Covid-19 is significantly (90+times) more dangerous than influenza. Side note: SARS related deaths were 774 deaths from 8,098 cases worldwide.  The morbidity rate for SARS was 9.55% or 3 times greater than Covid-19.  SARS lasted from November 2002 through July 2003.

 

[friedmom]

13 hours ago, Kiwifromkiev said:

 

are you suggesting that more cruises should have been cancelled? or that RSSC should have started cancelling earlier?

Yup. CDC recommended all “non-essential travel” to China be suspended on 1/25. There was some wishy-washy stuff about whether Hong Kong should be included. Really??? If you looked at a map of SE Asia IMHO this was a no-brainer. While they may have wished to delay cancellation decisions, it was unconscionable not to acknowledge the risk and anxiety that travelers were dealing with and offered a refund to anyone who wished to cancel. 

[Wendy The Wanderer]

2 hours ago, mdunne48 said:

Reality check:  Just to put the numbers related to Influenza and Covid-19 in perspective to each other.  There have been 12,000 influenza related deaths in the United States this year from a probable 31,000,000 cases according to the US CDC.  This translates into a morbidity rate of ~.03% due to Influenza.  Covid-19 has 78,900 cases worldwide with 2,465 deaths as of this morning. That translates into a morbidity rate of ~3.1%.  Covid-19 is significantly (90+times) more dangerous than influenza. Side note: SARS related deaths were 774 deaths from 8,098 cases worldwide.  The morbidity rate for SARS was 9.55% or 3 times greater than Covid-19.  SARS lasted from November 2002 through July 2003.

 

Thanks for the great numbers.  Something to note that's forgotten about SARS--many survivors of the disease were left with lasting impairment to their health.

[Travelcat2]

4 hours ago, mdunne48 said:

Reality check:  Just to put the numbers related to Influenza and Covid-19 in perspective to each other.  There have been 12,000 influenza related deaths in the United States this year from a probable 31,000,000 cases according to the US CDC.  This translates into a morbidity rate of ~.03% due to Influenza.  Covid-19 has 78,900 cases worldwide with 2,465 deaths as of this morning. That translates into a morbidity rate of ~3.1%.  Covid-19 is significantly (90+times) more dangerous than influenza. Side note: SARS related deaths were 774 deaths from 8,098 cases worldwide.  The morbidity rate for SARS was 9.55% or 3 times greater than Covid-19.  SARS lasted from November 2002 through July 2003.

 

 

Your reality check opened my eyes to an additional influenza fact.  Numbers would be dramatically lower if people got their flu shots.  They are highly effective and can be taken by people with compromised immune systems.  Unlike some viruses, there is no reason why the influenza numbers should be so high.  

[flossie009]

I started this thread in order for there to be one location for CC members with a specific interest in Regent's Asia cruises during Feb & March to share information.

This weekend the thread de-railed and turned confrontational. Today it has just become another thread debating Coronavirus in general.

Since we already have a thread about Coronavirus to fuel paranoia we probably don't need another.

I therefore ask the CC moderators to please lock this thread and let it die naturally (as I fervently hope the new virus will)

 

As a final note, I cannot help but comment on my continuing disappointment that Regent has still been unable to update its website to reflect the recent Voyager cruise cancellations ............. and a link to Regent's Coronavirus statement is still not available on the UK website.

Communication during these difficult times is so important, but the company only seems to find the time & resource to wax lyrical about the new ship, Splendor, rather than to keep its customers, and potential customers, informed of ongoing itinerary amendments.

As an example: Yesterday we had friends who are joining Voyager in Abu Dhabi email us enquiring about rumours they had heard about some changes to previous cruises. They had searched Regent's website and, not being readers of CC, had no idea of all the significant changes that had occurred over the last couple of weeks.