Are borders really closed? Most flights are NOT cancelled.

[sverigecruiser]

 

Lots of countries have closed their borders and travel is supposed to be restricted but most flights are NOT cancelled. Can anyone explain that?

 

For example Arlanda-Newark is still scheduled to leave in two hours and lots of flights from Heathrow to the US are not cancelled.  

[em-sk]

2 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Lots of countries have closed their borders and travel is supposed to be restricted but most flights are NOT cancelled. Can anyone explain that?

 

For example Arlanda-Newark is still scheduled to leave in two hours and lots of flights from Heathrow to the US are not cancelled.  

 

Generally countries have not restricted entry to their own nations or permanent residents.   So Americans can fly back to the united states but not to Europe.  Europeans can fly back to the Europe but not to the US.   

 

There are a variety of exemptions.   Canada is permitting transit passengers., so non-Canadians who are making an international connection through Canada.  

 

As an example Canada has exempt those involvement in "the transpiration of goods or people"  that  basically means truck drivers delivery goods can move freely between Canada and the US as well as airline crew. 

 

The last factor is air cargo.  The larger aircraft transport quite a bit of air cargo.  A lot of that has to continue to move and there is only so much space available on the dedicated cargo aircraft. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by em-sk

[sverigecruiser]

15 minutes ago, em-sk said:

 

Generally countries have not restricted entry to their own nations or permanent residents.   So Americans can fly back to the united states but not to Europe.  Europeans can fly back to the Europe but not to the US.   

 

There are a variety of exemptions.   Canada is permitting transit passengers., so non-Canadians who are making an international connection through Canada.  

 

As an example Canada has exempt those involvement in "the transpiration of goods or people"  that  basically means truck drivers delivery goods can move freely between Canada and the US as well as airline crew. 

 

The last factor is air cargo.  The larger aircraft transport quite a bit of air cargo.  A lot of that has to continue to move and there is only so much space available on the dedicated cargo aircraft. 

 

Thank you for your answer.

 

Isn't it late to fly back home now? I thought that most people went home some weeks ago but I guess I'm wrong.

  

[CruiserBruce]

45 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Thank you for your answer.

 

Isn't it late to fly back home now? I thought that most people went home some weeks ago but I guess I'm wrong.

  

Not at all. I see stories daily about people (particularly Americans, but occasionally non-US) "trapped" somewhere, as they weren't planning on returning for a while, so don't have flights booked in the immediate time frame, and now expecting "rescue". For example, there have been a few stories about a large number of Americans demanding the US Government arrange repatriation flights from Morocco.

[waterbug123]

3 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Thank you for your answer.

 

Isn't it late to fly back home now? I thought that most people went home some weeks ago but I guess I'm wrong.

  

 

I have friends who left for the UK/Ireland on March 3 I believe.  They are due back on Tuesday.

Another friend's daughter was in Africa with the peach corps but was just evactuated out and sent home.

In another online frequent flyer group someone was stuck in Tunisia for work when they closed their borders and just got our by flying first to France on a repatriation flight.

These are just a few, but people go all over the world for various reasons and often lengthy periods of time.  Many probably thought it would blow over by the time they were to return home so didn't rush to get back.  Or were scheduled to stay indefinitely, but are now told they have to leave.

[sverigecruiser]

53 minutes ago, waterbug123 said:

 

I have friends who left for the UK/Ireland on March 3 I believe.  They are due back on Tuesday.

Another friend's daughter was in Africa with the peach corps but was just evactuated out and sent home.

In another online frequent flyer group someone was stuck in Tunisia for work when they closed their borders and just got our by flying first to France on a repatriation flight.

These are just a few, but people go all over the world for various reasons and often lengthy periods of time.  Many probably thought it would blow over by the time they were to return home so didn't rush to get back.  Or were scheduled to stay indefinitely, but are now told they have to leave.

 

I understand but still think that more flights should be cancelled.

[teacherman]

Rick Scott, republican senator from Florida, said this morning on Fox and Friends that all NON-ESSENTIAL passenger air traffic in the US should stop.  Our government seems to be leaving shut down and closure decisions to each state and local government.  History shows that it will not work.  But some politicians don't really believe in history, or science.

[Twickenham]

Actually, I was reading this morning (https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/whos-still-flying-and-whos-not-a-definitive-list-with-live-updates.html) how airlines are significantly cutting the number of flights - it has it all broken down by percentage of flights cut, up to 90%. There was also a list of airlines that are completely grounded - lots of smaller airlines, but also some major ones like Austrian and LOT.

[CruiserBruce]

2 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I understand but still think that more flights should be cancelled.

If you look on the United board on FlyerTalk, you can see what United has cut their international flights to...for example, instead of about 8 flights a day to FRA from the US, they are down to 2. One a day total to Japan, when there used to be about 10.

 

They are also using some passenger planes for freight.

[sverigecruiser]

6 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

If you look on the United board on FlyerTalk, you can see what United has cut their international flights to...for example, instead of about 8 flights a day to FRA from the US, they are down to 2. One a day total to Japan, when there used to be about 10.

 

They are also using some passenger planes for freight.

 

One a day to Japan make sense but I'm still surprised that they need 2 US flights from FRA. I looked at Heathrow and saw flights to many destinations in the US with multiple airlines.

 

I understand about the freight but if they only use it for freight isn't that flight considered to be cancelled? (I looked at Flightradar24 and thought that flights used only for cargo should be listed at cancelled. If they aren't I understand why so few flights are cancelled.)

[CruiserBruce]

32 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

One a day to Japan make sense but I'm still surprised that they need 2 US flights from FRA. I looked at Heathrow and saw flights to many destinations in the US with multiple airlines.

 

I understand about the freight but if they only use it for freight isn't that flight considered to be cancelled? (I looked at Flightradar24 and thought that flights used only for cargo should be listed at cancelled. If they aren't I understand why so few flights are cancelled.)

Freight flights will have a flight number just like a passenger flight. But, if you don't know how the airline numbers it's flights, it might still look like FRA-ORD to you.

 

There are still a lot of flights hauling people back to their home countries.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

Freight flights will have a flight number just like a passenger flight. But, if you don't know how the airline numbers it's flights, it might still look like FRA-ORD to you.

 

There are still a lot of flights hauling people back to their home countries.

 

Thank you for the explanation.

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

There are still a lot of flights hauling people back to their home countries.

 

Remember how the folks on the Diamond Princess were DEMANDING that the government fly them home.

 

Imagine the howls of indignation and protest if borders were truly and completely closed, with citizens unable to return to their home country.

 

Thought problem:  You are a citizen of country X but are physically in country Y.  X decides to close its border to everyone, including citizens.  Further, X has a national health system that you were relying upon but now can't use.  Still further, you are in Y, which won't treat non-citizens in its health system, or at extreme cost.  Now, what would you think about your country prohibiting your return?

[em-sk]

11 hours ago, teacherman said:

Rick Scott, republican senator from Florida, said this morning on Fox and Friends that all NON-ESSENTIAL passenger air traffic in the US should stop.  Our government seems to be leaving shut down and closure decisions to each state and local government.  History shows that it will not work.  But some politicians don't really believe in history, or science.

 

The US has some unique dynamics all its own. I could comment on the photos of people having fun on the beach in Florida and not being appropriately spaced, bu then there was a photo today of the same thing on beaches in Vancouver.  Maybe there are people who have difficulty understanding this in all countries.

 

In the rest of the Western World, non-essential air travel has mostly stopped.  This is part because people are scarred (and they should be) or they are blocked by government rules.   We can argue about what the definition of "essential travel is".

 

The senator becoming concerned about the number of aircraft in the sky misses the point.  The airlines are not going to fly empty aircraft.  We don't need to stop aircraft in the sky, we need to stop passengers that create the demand for the flights.

 

 

[teacherman]

Exactly my "point", I think.  The Surgeon General said this morning, on FOX AND FRIENDS,that "We cannot treat our way out of this pandemic.  The only way to slow it down is to have people stay at home for the next two weeks.  This is why the president has asked people to stay at home."  It would seem that if you KNOW the only way to slow the virus is to stop people from moving around, and they won't do it on their own, you should take measures that STOP them from moving around."  Like maybe stopping air travel.  Airlines will eventually stop flights if no one is going.  The problem is how many more people become infected and spread the disease and cause hospitals to be over stressed before "eventually" comes.  (I did not know people were on the beaches in Vancouver at this time of the year.)

[iancal]

It was reported yesterday that Canada had 1 million people return home last week.  We were two of them.  About 550K by air, 480K or so by automobile.   Lots more this week by car now that the airline scheds have been reduced.    

 

Air options are becoming more limited as airlines cancel flights and lay off employees.  Last week there were all kinds of flights from Puerta Vallarta.  Very few this week.  I imagine that it is the same or worse from other locations.

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by iancal