Norwegian....Take notice! A despicable policy.

[brovol]

12 hours ago, GA Dave said:

Based on what I read today linked on MSN (I think it was from Forbes), NCLH stock will be junk status in a few weeks, so you will not be seeing any refunds or cruises to use your FCC on.

Well, cruise lines have ships, and even their creditors know that for the debts to be repaid at any level those ships need to sail.  My guess is that , particularly considering that there will still be a market for cruising, the cruise lines will not stop cruising.  Even if they are in bankruptcy the bankruptcy trustees will keep the cruise lines running, because that is the only way anyone mitigates their losses.  It might be that the quality of the cruises go down, but my guess is that they will continue. 

 

I read that NCL has less financial baggage that the other cruise lines, and is in a better position to survive longer.

[MoniMommy]

9 minutes ago, brovol said:

I enjoy cruising, so I would hate to see the cruise-lines go belly up.  Nobody likes what has been happening lately.  My wife and I were supposed to be on the Getaway in Belize today.  It would be great for those who want a refund for it to be an immediate process, but that's not a practical option; particularly given to current situation the cruise lines find themselves in.    Can you imagine if you owned a business like a cruise line, where customers pay in advance because you have to purchase things in advance in order to provide the service when the customer arrives, and then something happens which was out of your control, but requires a halt to your business, and thus compels you to pay back hundreds of thousands of those customers.  Your entire revenue stream stops completely, and now you have to find a way to make everyone whole? 

 

I would love if the compensation for our cruise was even better than what NCL offered, but I certainly can not suggest that it is unfair.  I have had plenty of complaints about NCL (and the other cruise lines for that matter) over the years, but this certainly isn't one of them.

 

My wife and I were able to re-book our exact cruise, for the same week, leaving out of the same port (NOLA), in the same cabin (spa mini-suite), and with slightly better perks and more onboard credit, using the FCC and the 20% deal; and we still have a couple hundred left (even after using it to prepay gratuities and unlimited streaming internet).  NCL hasn't been unreasonable, I don't think.

Just curious. You think its reasonable for a refund to take 90 days? I dont think the amount of compensation was what the OP was referring to as being unreasonable. The problem is holding a refund for 90 days. 

[spanishguy1970]

On 3/31/2020 at 3:52 PM, pianobar said:

We received notice of the cancellation of our May cruise today, obviously not unexpected. As most cruise lines I assume are doing, we were given the choice of a 125% future cruise credit or a "lesser value refund" as they phrase it in their email. Interestingly, they are able to offer the credit option almost immediately (the default) but their customers have to fill in a digital form by a certain future date and then wait at least 3 months for the refund. Really?

 

I note many cruisers on this site defending Norwegian as some sort of a clever marketer attempting to save their company. I think the approach Norwegian is using is, simply put, despicable! This is a time when everyone is fearful and stressed. Many people, including Norwegian's customers, are losing their jobs or laid off. Many of Norwegian's customers saved money for many years to book vacations and, in some cases, to book the dream vacation of a lifetime. Now many of these people are struggling to pay their rents or even buy food. Now Norwegian appropriately cancels their cruise but then says they'll hit the left button on their system and you'll get a cruise credit in a few days.....or......they'll hit the right button on their system and you'll get a refund (aka the cash they may desperately need) but they'll take more than 3 months to give it to you. Despicable. Don't let the defenders of Norwegian's actions fool you into thinking that a credit card refund is more than a simple keystroke of a computer. Despicable.

 

For a company that is likely to eventually receive millions if not billions of dollars in bailout funds from our taxes, how dare you hold on to the $3000 or maybe $4000 or maybe much more of your customers' hard-earned money for more than 3 months when so many others are helping each other out.  Despicable. The small private tour operators we had booked through have already fully refunded our tours, a process that took just a few days (the simple click of a button on their computer). And these small companies are struggling for their very existence. Yet they operate with integrity and realize the money they took is not theirs until they fulfill their promise of a tour. Take notice, Norwegian! That's how you operate a business.

 

We have sailed with several cruise lines in the past. This was to be our first cruise with Norwegian. Other cruise lines may be operating similarly, but my current experience is with Norwegian. I will, with no hesitation, book again with the small tour operators and family-run hotels that have already fully and promptly refunded my money. However, I will never again book a cruise with Norwegian Cruise Lines. Their business model is completely devoid of integrity and compassion at a time when most of us need integrity and compassion the most. Despicable. Shame on you, Norwegian, shame on you.

 

 

I agree, however they are not getting bailed out. Secondly, 90 days gives them enough time to file for chapter 11 therefore not refunding you anything. We are canceling our October cruise, We refuse to give them anymore money right now.

[jingle5616]

33 minutes ago, brovol said:

 

 

I read that NCL has less financial baggage that the other cruise lines, and is in a better position to survive longer.

You have read wrong.  NCL is toast.  Their cash burn is far to much for the amount of cash on hand.

[brovol]

5 minutes ago, MoniMommy said:

Just curious. You think its reasonable for a refund to take 90 days? I dont think the amount of compensation was what the OP was referring to as being unreasonable. The problem is holding a refund for 90 days. 

I dont think you can compare it to a retailer issuing an immediate refund when you take a shirt back that doesn't fit.   It is literally hundreds of thousands of customers seeking thousands of dollars each, all at once.  It is a "rush" on refunds, not unlike when banks in the 1930's got everyone rushing in and demanding their money back in cash, all at once. 

 

The cruise lines have only a certain amount of liquid/cash in reserve, and there are a lot of things they need to keep paying just to "maintain", even if during a "stay" period, when they can not cruise.  Frankly, I suspect that NCL might not know how they are going to come up with the money to pay refunds within that 90 days, or how they are going to pay for other operational expenses during the same period of time.  Maybe I am completely wrong, and these companies are flush with cash, sufficient to pay everything that needs to be paid, even while they are making absolutely NO REVENUE. But it will not surprise me at all if in 90 days we find out that NCL is notifying folks that it will be another 45 days before refunds are issued.

 

I get it, and I am certain that NCL does too; its bad for business to leave customers hanging.  This is particularly true when you are in a business so reliant on past customers continuing to come back.  I'm sure NCL wishes it was in a position to pay everyone immediately.  It just isn't.

 

So my answer to your question is, given the circumstances, yes, I think it is reasonable.

[Jobeth66]

1 hour ago, brovol said:

I enjoy cruising, so I would hate to see the cruise-lines go belly up.  Nobody likes what has been happening lately.  My wife and I were supposed to be on the Getaway in Belize today.  It would be great for those who want a refund for it to be an immediate process, but that's not a practical option; particularly given to current situation the cruise lines find themselves in.    Can you imagine if you owned a business like a cruise line, where customers pay in advance because you have to purchase things in advance in order to provide the service when the customer arrives, and then something happens which was out of your control, but requires a halt to your business, and thus compels you to pay back hundreds of thousands of those customers.  Your entire revenue stream stops completely, and now you have to find a way to make everyone whole? 

 

I would love if the compensation for our cruise was even better than what NCL offered, but I certainly can not suggest that it is unfair.  I have had plenty of complaints about NCL (and the other cruise lines for that matter) over the years, but this certainly isn't one of them.

 

My wife and I were able to re-book our exact cruise, for the same week, leaving out of the same port (NOLA), in the same cabin (spa mini-suite), and with slightly better perks and more onboard credit, using the FCC and the 20% deal; and we still have a couple hundred left (even after using it to prepay gratuities and unlimited streaming internet).  NCL hasn't been unreasonable, I don't think.

 

They can get insurance that covers a loss like this.  It isn't cheap, and it probably would come with a high retention (like a deductible), but they can certainly get it.  If they didn't, that's on them - their risk management department likely decided that the cost/benefit ratio made it a bad investment.  That's not their customer's fault.

 

It should never take 90 days to issue a refund, especially on a credit card payment.  That's an easy chargeback.  They're using your money as an interest-free loan.

 

Now, you took FCC and were able to book the same trip - but what if you were told that your cruise was cancelled and you'll get a FCC, but you won't be able to apply it to your next cruise until 90 days before sailing.  So you have to put a cash deposit down, and then you can apply your FCC to the cost of the cruise when final payment is due - not one year out or 2 years out when you book it, but only once final payment is due.

 

Would that be reasonable?  If not, why not?

 

You don't think it's unreasonable because you've already gotten your money back the way you want it.  Long before 90 days is up.

 

I have over $6k invested in a cruise that's unlikely to happen.  If it DOES happen?  Awesome.  If it doesn't?  I expect my money - that they will have had for 4 months prior to embarkation - to be returned to me within 30 days of the date of cancellation.  That's reasonable, to me.  If my embarkation date comes & goes and I don't have my money back?  I'll certainly file a chargeback with my credit card company.  Failure to render a service paid for is grounds for a chargeback.  And I always pay with AmEx, so I'll get my credit back immediately while they discuss with NCL what's taking so long to reimburse.

[brovol]

14 minutes ago, jingle5616 said:

You have read wrong.  NCL is toast.  Their cash burn is far to much for the amount of cash on hand.

I dont profess to be in the know, but what I read is that, while typically afforded relatively stable revenues, cruise lines have a certain amount of overhead costs associated with them, and most have taken out a hefty amount of debt to buy their ships. This goes for all of the major companies, including RCL, Carnival, and NCL. Yet instead of paying down this debt, the cruise companies -- except Norwegian -- have continued to grow and pay out hefty dividends to their shareholders. Now that these companies' revenues are being cut off, there's a fair question as to how long they'll be able to remain in business.  It sounds to me like NCL have been a bit more responsible with managing its debt than the others.

[brovol]

6 minutes ago, Jobeth66 said:

 

They can get insurance that covers a loss like this.  It isn't cheap, and it probably would come with a high retention (like a deductible), but they can certainly get it.  If they didn't, that's on them - their risk management department likely decided that the cost/benefit ratio made it a bad investment.  That's not their customer's fault.

 

It should never take 90 days to issue a refund, especially on a credit card payment.  That's an easy chargeback.  They're using your money as an interest-free loan.

 

Now, you took FCC and were able to book the same trip - but what if you were told that your cruise was cancelled and you'll get a FCC, but you won't be able to apply it to your next cruise until 90 days before sailing.  So you have to put a cash deposit down, and then you can apply your FCC to the cost of the cruise when final payment is due - not one year out or 2 years out when you book it, but only once final payment is due.

 

Would that be reasonable?  If not, why not?

 

You don't think it's unreasonable because you've already gotten your money back the way you want it.  Long before 90 days is up.

 

I have over $6k invested in a cruise that's unlikely to happen.  If it DOES happen?  Awesome.  If it doesn't?  I expect my money - that they will have had for 4 months prior to embarkation - to be returned to me within 30 days of the date of cancellation.  That's reasonable, to me.  If my embarkation date comes & goes and I don't have my money back?  I'll certainly file a chargeback with my credit card company.  Failure to render a service paid for is grounds for a chargeback.  And I always pay with AmEx, so I'll get my credit back immediately while they discuss with NCL what's taking so long to reimburse.

In your hypothetical I would have asked, why?  Is there a reason I can't immediately apply my credit to the new cruise?  There wouldn't be a legitimate reason in the credit scenario.  There would be no explanation why NCL couldn't simply set off what they owe me to what I would owe them for the new cruise.  Takes no cash to do that.  As opposed to a refund, where they actually have to have the cash to pay.  I don't believe they do have the cash.  If they did, I think that it would be unreasonable not to pay everyone they owe (cancelled cruisers, as well as other creditors) out of their pocket.  But that isn't the case.  I think if you send someone to bust their thumbs unless they pay you, they still wont be able to pay.

 

I had the option to take the refund as well, and considered it.  A refund would have allowed me to use the money on another trip, maybe a cruise with another line, or to spend the money on something else (maybe put it in my crippled 401K).  I made the choice given the options, just like you did.  Our situations were exactly the same, so my opinion on this isn't shaped any differently because I opted for the FCC.  I am not "happy" about all of this; but my strong belief is that NCL is far more "unhappy" about the situation than either you or me.

[Jobeth66]

45 minutes ago, brovol said:

In your hypothetical I would have asked, why?  Is there a reason I can't immediately apply my credit to the new cruise?  There wouldn't be a legitimate reason in the credit scenario.  There would be no explanation why NCL couldn't simply set off what they owe me to what I would owe them for the new cruise.  Takes no cash to do that.  As opposed to a refund, where they actually have to have the cash to pay.  I don't believe they do have the cash.  If they did, I think that it would be unreasonable not to pay everyone they owe (cancelled cruisers, as well as other creditors) out of their pocket.  But that isn't the case.  I think if you send someone to bust their thumbs unless they pay you, they still wont be able to pay.

 

 

Why?  Maybe because that's what NCL decided.  It's an arbitrary date that they chose for whatever reason they wanted.  You can't apply the credit before final booking because that's the rule they made.  And trust that they're going to jack up the prices on the cruise at final booking so that your FCC + 20% discount isn't going to be enough to cover the costs.  They don't have to have a reason, they make the rules.

 

Just like they arbitrarily chose 90+ days as how long it will take to refund on cancelled cruises.  There's no reason for it, there's no justification for it - just like how they're requiring people whose cruises in April & May are already cancelled to wait TWO WEEKS before they can even file for a refund, then it's at least another 90 days before they will get those refunds.  Arbitrary and absolutely no justification for it.

 

Refunds should be /automatic/.  You should have to proactively opt for FCC.  And the refund process should have begun immediately upon cancellation of the cruise.  Send an email "Your cruise is cancelled and your refund is being processed to your method of payment and should be received within 30 days.  If you would prefer to have an additional amount of Future Cruise Credit equal to 125% of your payment amount, along with a 20% discount against the future cruise of your choosing, please contact your Cruise Planner for details on how to begin that process."

 

THAT would make sense.  This whole "your cruise is canceled and in a few weeks you'll be able to submit this form to get your money back, and if you don't ask for your money back within a certain number of days you're going to get cruise credit" is ridiculous.  If it's going to take them 90 days to process a refund anyway, I should have up to 90 days after the date the form can be submitted to decide if I want the cruise credit or the cash, shouldn't I?  Why am I limited as to how long I have to request a refund?

 

Because they made an arbitrary decision.

 

I don't believe they have the cash either - they're engaging in a pyramid scheme, using money from bookings of future cruises to pay off the people who have been canceled.  That's why I'll do a chargeback if necessary.  They failed to adequately insure themselves for this potential risk, and that's not my fault.

[brovol]

9 minutes ago, Jobeth66 said:

Why?  Maybe because that's what NCL decided.  It's an arbitrary date that they chose for whatever reason they wanted.  You can't apply the credit before final booking because that's the rule they made.  And trust that they're going to jack up the prices on the cruise at final booking so that your FCC + 20% discount isn't going to be enough to cover the costs.  They don't have to have a reason, they make the rules.

 

Just like they arbitrarily chose 90+ days as how long it will take to refund on cancelled cruises.  There's no reason for it, there's no justification for it - just like how they're requiring people whose cruises in April & May are already cancelled to wait TWO WEEKS before they can even file for a refund, then it's at least another 90 days before they will get those refunds.  Arbitrary and absolutely no justification for it.

 

Refunds should be /automatic/.  You should have to proactively opt for FCC.  And the refund process should have begun immediately upon cancellation of the cruise.  Send an email "Your cruise is cancelled and your refund is being processed to your method of payment and should be received within 30 days.  If you would prefer to have an additional amount of Future Cruise Credit equal to 125% of your payment amount, along with a 20% discount against the future cruise of your choosing, please contact your Cruise Planner for details on how to begin that process."

 

THAT would make sense.  This whole "your cruise is canceled and in a few weeks you'll be able to submit this form to get your money back, and if you don't ask for your money back within a certain number of days you're going to get cruise credit" is ridiculous.  If it's going to take them 90 days to process a refund anyway, I should have up to 90 days after the date the form can be submitted to decide if I want the cruise credit or the cash, shouldn't I?  Why am I limited as to how long I have to request a refund?

 

Because they made an arbitrary decision.

 

I don't believe they have the cash either - they're engaging in a pyramid scheme, using money from bookings of future cruises to pay off the people who have been canceled.  That's why I'll do a chargeback if necessary.  They failed to adequately insure themselves for this potential risk, and that's not my fault.

Since you acknowledge that they don't have the cash to give everyone their refund, how is it that you propose they pay you?  And if we agree NCL doesn't have the money to pay the refunds right away, how can you conclude it is an arbitrary decision?   You win though, since there is zero purpose to us debating when logic will have no place in the discussion.  You wont cruise with NCL again, and that's OK.  God bless.

Edited April 2, 2020 by brovol

[MoniMommy]

Back in January when people wanted to cancel because of virus, so many people were told on these board you should have had insurance. Well, the same goes for NCL. NCL will be facing lots of charge backs and if they ban everyone who does so, they will be in an even worse position than they are now. But, if they do ban those who do charge backs from cursing again that's fine as they are many other cruise lines and many ways to vacation without a cruise. Once the sail date passes, it seems it will be hard for a customer to loose the charge back case. 

[spanishguy1970]

On 4/1/2020 at 10:50 AM, NLH Arizona said:

Instead of the back and forth whether one will receive the refund from their credit card company, how about those that have disputed the charge with their credit card company update us on what happened.

 

When many disputed their charge from the bomb cyclone cruise some time back, they were denied, because the banks said they got the services they paid for.  They weren't happy, but at least everyone knew how the dispute ended up.

there is a comment on my  roll call, the bliss April 19 where he or she says that now with their cancellation letter they went to their credit card and filed a dispute for the amount and they have received  half their refund from the credit card, and supposedly will get the rest tomorrow. Supposedly, with that letter they can establish they did not get the service they paid for so there is no reason to wait the 90 days to get the money back, which is basically a free loan NCL is getting.

Edited April 2, 2020 by spanishguy1970

[MoniMommy]

6 minutes ago, spanishguy1970 said:

there is a comment on my  roll call, the bliss April 19 where he or she says that now with their cancellation letter they went to their credit card and filed a dispute for the amount and they have received t half their refund from the credit card, and supposedly will get the rest tomorrow. Supposedly, with that letter they can establish they did not get the service they paid for so there is no reason to wait the 90 days to get the money back, which is basically a free loan NCL is getting.

Good to know! Thank you!

[Jobeth66]

20 minutes ago, brovol said:

Since you acknowledge that they don't have the cash to give everyone their refund, how is it that you propose they pay you?  And if we agree NCL doesn't have the money to pay the refunds right away, how can you conclude it is an arbitrary decision?   You win though, since there is zero purpose to us debating when logic will have no place in the discussion.  You wont cruise with NCL again, and that's OK.  God bless.

 

How do I propose they pay me?  Take out some very low interest loans against their fleet.  Cut pay to the senior management and C-Suite corporate officers to zero, like some other companies are doing.  It really doesn't matter how they do it, but they need to figure it out.  That's their problem.  I'll get my money back from AmEx.  They'll have to explain to AmEx why they don't have the money.

 

If you hired someone to remodel your kitchen, paid them a $1000 deposit,  and they are set to start on June 1st, and come May 15th they call and say 'hey, not gonna happen, I'll get your deposit back to you sometime in October, I just don't have the money right now' you'd accept that?  Of course not.  Nobody would.

 

I'm just not sure why we're supposed to think that's 'reasonable' here.  

[spanishguy1970]

2 minutes ago, Jobeth66 said:

 

How do I propose they pay me?  Take out some very low interest loans against their fleet.  Cut pay to the senior management and C-Suite corporate officers to zero, like some other companies are doing.  It really doesn't matter how they do it, but they need to figure it out.  That's their problem.  I'll get my money back from AmEx.  They'll have to explain to AmEx why they don't have the money.

 

If you hired someone to remodel your kitchen, paid them a $1000 deposit,  and they are set to start on June 1st, and come May 15th they call and say 'hey, not gonna happen, I'll get your deposit back to you sometime in October, I just don't have the money right now' you'd accept that?  Of course not.  Nobody would.

 

I'm just not sure why we're supposed to think that's 'reasonable' here.  

Hear hear

[julig22]

3 minutes ago, spanishguy1970 said:

there is a comment on my  roll call, the bliss April 19 where he or she says that now with their cancellation letter they went to their credit card and filed a dispute for the amount and they have received t half their refund from the credit card, and supposedly will get the rest tomorrow. Supposedly, with that letter they can establish they did not get the service they paid for so there is no reason to wait the 90 days to get the money back, which is basically a free loan NCL is getting.

You do not get your money back when you file a dispute.  You get a temporary credit until the case is resolved.  Once a dispute is filed, you get a credit and the bank file a claim with NCL.  NCL now has 30 days to respond, either with an approval for the amount or an objection to the claim.  If NCL says OK, the claim is closed and now you have the money.  If NCL objects and says we are processing the claim according to our terms of refund, the claim is closed and the credits are reversed.  If you appeal, you get another credit and the bank goes back to NCL and the process continues. 

At this point, it is pure speculation on how NCL will handle chargebacks.  They have nothing to lose by denying any claims, because they are charged a fee regardless of whether or not the chargeback it legitimate, so a denial will buy them time, just at holding on to your money buys them time.

[NLH Arizona]

22 minutes ago, spanishguy1970 said:

there is a comment on my  roll call, the bliss April 19 where he or she says that now with their cancellation letter they went to their credit card and filed a dispute for the amount and they have received  half their refund from the credit card, and supposedly will get the rest tomorrow. Supposedly, with that letter they can establish they did not get the service they paid for so there is no reason to wait the 90 days to get the money back, which is basically a free loan NCL is getting.

Did you get the charge reversed or is the credit card company just removing the charge so you don't have to pay or incurr interest until the dispute has been investigated and resolved?  

 

I only ask this, because this is how my credit card deals with disputes.

Edited April 2, 2020 by NLH Arizona

[spanishguy1970]

13 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

Did you get the charge reversed or is the credit card company just removing the charge so you don't have to pay or incurr interest until the dispute has been investigated and resolved?  

 

I only ask this, because this is how my credit card deals with disputes.

good question i will go and ask, i agree with what someone else said, usually when you file a dispute you get your money back " temporarily" until the dispute is resolved. I probably think the people in my roll call don't know this...

[NLH Arizona]

1 minute ago, spanishguy1970 said:

good question i will go and ask, i agree with what someone else said, usually when you file a dispute you get your money back " temporarily" until the dispute is resolved. I probably think the people in my roll call don't know this...

With my bank, you can't use the money, it is in limbo, in dispute until it has been resolved.

[brovol]

11 minutes ago, Jobeth66 said:

 

How do I propose they pay me?  Take out some very low interest loans against their fleet.  Cut pay to the senior management and C-Suite corporate officers to zero, like some other companies are doing.  It really doesn't matter how they do it, but they need to figure it out.  That's their problem.  I'll get my money back from AmEx.  They'll have to explain to AmEx why they don't have the money.

 

If you hired someone to remodel your kitchen, paid them a $1000 deposit,  and they are set to start on June 1st, and come May 15th they call and say 'hey, not gonna happen, I'll get your deposit back to you sometime in October, I just don't have the money right now' you'd accept that?  Of course not.  Nobody would.

 

I'm just not sure why we're supposed to think that's 'reasonable' here.  

Using your hypothetical, what if the kitchen remodel guy said, "hey, sorry, but the government just said this remodeling job isn't "essential", and I cant do remodeling jobs for a few months or so; I already paid for all the materials, so I can either do the job in a few months, when they let me, or pay you back when I can, because I have no cash on hand,  I am not permitted to work now, and I still am trying to figure out how to feed my kids for the next several weeks".  That is what we have right now with the cruise lines.  Not a good situation for anybody, and everyone ends up making concessions. 

 

I do become a bit curious reading some posts here, even though I understand people being upset.  Honestly though, if your cruise wasn't cancelled, the money you spent on it would be gone.  I get that you don't want to wait for it now, but it shouldn't be that anyone needs it to survive, since it wouldn't have been in the budget at this point regardless.  In a few months it will be like saved money.

[spanishguy1970]

2 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

With my bank, you can't use the money, it is in limbo, in dispute until it has been resolved.

mine too....I also agree with what someone else said on here, if NCL can show that they are working on refunds, doing a dispute will not help because they can show they are trying to rectify the problem, so eventually NCL will win and the person will be charged again.

[mynameisvlad]

2 minutes ago, brovol said:

In a few months it will be like saved money.

 

Or, it'll be gone because the company no longer exists.

[Newleno]

3 minutes ago, brovol said:

Using your hypothetical, what if the kitchen remodel guy said, "hey, sorry, but the government just said this remodeling job isn't "essential", and I cant do remodeling jobs for a few months or so; I already paid for all the materials, so I can either do the job in a few months, when they let me, or pay you back when I can, because I have no cash on hand,  I am not permitted to work now, and I still am trying to figure out how to feed my kids for the next several weeks".  That is what we have right now with the cruise lines.  Not a good situation for anybody, and everyone ends up making concessions. 

 

I do become a bit curious reading some posts here, even though I understand people being upset.  Honestly though, if your cruise wasn't cancelled, the money you spent on it would be gone.  I get that you don't want to wait for it now, but it shouldn't be that anyone needs it to survive, since it wouldn't have been in the budget at this point regardless.  In a few months it will be like saved money.

Using your hypothetical,

actually this your hypothetical not theirs

[brovol]

Just now, Newleno said:

Using your hypothetical,

actually this your hypothetical not theirs

Ummm, no; I never gave that hypothetical (kitchen remodel).  Follow along....

[ColeThornton]

49 minutes ago, Jobeth66 said:

 

How do I propose they pay me?  Take out some very low interest loans against their fleet.  Cut pay to the senior management and C-Suite corporate officers to zero, like some other companies are doing.  It really doesn't matter how they do it, but they need to figure it out.  That's their problem.  I'll get my money back from AmEx.  They'll have to explain to AmEx why they don't have the money.

 

If you hired someone to remodel your kitchen, paid them a $1000 deposit,  and they are set to start on June 1st, and come May 15th they call and say 'hey, not gonna happen, I'll get your deposit back to you sometime in October, I just don't have the money right now' you'd accept that?  Of course not.  Nobody would.

 

I'm just not sure why we're supposed to think that's 'reasonable' here.  

 

 

Not arguing any of your points since I don't have a dog in this fight but actually NCL has already taken out a 3/4 Billion dollar loan using the Epic as collateral.

 

Hope things work out for you.