Tipping

[Ocean Boy]

@LXA350 you know I don't always agree with you, or maybe it is just the way you say things, but you do make many interesting and valid points. But why do you always have to come across like you are attacking  the U.S.? It gets old and tiring.

 

Anyway, one thought I have is the tipping system may have initially started out in the service industry as a way to motivate people to actually provide the service that they are supposed to be providing. I have been to non-tipping countries where service has been pretty poor at times. But yes, it can be confusing and seem archaic to a visitor here in the U.S.  It can even be confusing to an American. You are also correct that tipping in this country seems less like a gesture if appreciation but an expectation. I have no idea if that is how it began or if that is what it has evolved into.

 

However, for better or worse , it is the system that is in place and I suspect your frustration and lack of understanding is not likely to change it any time soon.

 

 

[ECCruise]

36 minutes ago, amurray88 said:

@LXA350 I'm not a mean or nasty person and I understand in America people tip for a lot of things. I guess I just don't understand why for certain people..take a typical cruise for me and correct me if I'm wrong but this is what most people would expect...?

Taxi to the airport (tip driver)

Check in staff (don't tip)

Security staff (don't tip)

Pilot (don't tip)

Air hostess/stewards (don't tip...and yet they clean up after you, make you drinks and serve you meals?)

Baggage handlers (don't tip)

Taxi to hotel (tip)

Hotel desk (don't tip)

Hotel cleaner (tip)

Taxi to port (tip)

Check in staff (don't tip)

Port staff (don't tip)

Cruise staff - room stewards, bar staff, waiters(tip and then tip again?)

Cruise staff (entertainers, Life guards, retail staff) - (possibly tipped via autograts but may not be).

 

For me, it doesn't make sense? They all play a massive part in my holiday so why tip some and not others and vice versa?

It is pretty simple.

The people you tip are the ones with minimal salaries (from literally ZERO to a couple dollars an hour).  You can't compare a airline pilot who makes somewhere in the neighborhood of $200,000 a year (legacy airline with seniority) to a cruise steward who makes $50 a month.  Check-in staff are frequently retired folks who work for a decent hourly wage.  Cruise staff, e.g. entertainers, receive a pretty decent monthly wage.  

I guess it is hard for us Americans who understand the tipping culture worldwide don't understand why those not US based (and this is not directed at you) don't understand it.  

[amurray88]

1 minute ago, Ocean Boy said:

@LXA350 you know I don't always agree with you, or maybe it is just the way you say things, but you do make many interesting and valid points. But why do you always have to come across like you are attacking  the U.S.? It gets old and tiring.

 

Anyway, one thought I have is the tipping system may have initially started out in the service industry as a way to motivate people to actually provide the service that they are supposed to be providing. I have been to non-tipping countries where service has been pretty poor at times. But yes, it can be confusing and seem archaic to a visitor here in the U.S.  It can even be confusing to an American. You are also correct that tipping in this country seems less like a gesture if appreciation but an expectation. I have no idea if that is how it began or if that is what it has evolved into.

 

However, for better or worse , it is the system that is in place and I suspect your frustration and lack of understanding is not likely to change it any time soon.

 

 

It is (in part) the same in the UK in terms of certain people would expect to be tipped whilst others wouldn't. I get it (kind of) I just don't agree. 

 

One small example...a barber in the UK would probably be one where you would be expected to tip. Alot of the time the barber may own the shop. If he's not earning enough he should put his prices up? No? 

 

Sorry I must come across as mean, I'm genuinely not.... It just bamboozles me the whole tip thing, again this maybe is just that I've never worked in an industry where a tip would be given.

[Ocean Boy]

1 minute ago, amurray88 said:

It is (in part) the same in the UK in terms of certain people would expect to be tipped whilst others wouldn't. I get it (kind of) I just don't agree. 

 

One small example...a barber in the UK would probably be one where you would be expected to tip. Alot of the time the barber may own the shop. If he's not earning enough he should put his prices up? No? 

 

Sorry I must come across as mean, I'm genuinely not.... It just bamboozles me the whole tip thing, again this maybe is just that I've never worked in an industry where a tip would be given.

Truly, I gave no idea why why a barber, a business man who owns his own business, is expected to be tipped when other business owners would not.

 

And you don't come across as mean. Apparently you know how to make a point without turning it into an attack.

[amurray88]

10 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

It is pretty simple.

The people you tip are the ones with minimal salaries (from literally ZERO to a couple dollars an hour).  You can't compare a airline pilot who makes somewhere in the neighborhood of $200,000 a year (legacy airline with seniority) to a cruise steward who makes $50 a month.  Check-in staff are frequently retired folks who work for a decent hourly wage.  Cruise staff, e.g. entertainers, receive a pretty decent monthly wage.  

I guess it is hard for us Americans who understand the tipping culture worldwide don't understand why those not US based (and this is not directed at you) don't understand it.  

I hear you - and the wages you quote are horrific if true. And of course I won't compare a pilot to a steward.

I'm sure the likes of restaurant workers in the UK must love US tourists too as they're all on a decent wage (minimum wage here in the UK is £8.72 - approx $11/hour and alot of places pay what we call the real living wage which is £9.30...approx $12/hour)...not bad if they're getting an extra £5-10 an hour on top of that!!

Edited May 30, 2020 by amurray88

[Computer Nerd]

15 hours ago, Lady Chew said:

 

There is certainly nothing wrong with that!!  Tipping isn't mandatory for anyone ... 

I completely agree.

[Computer Nerd]

13 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Figures

Figures you'd make such a comment.

[Computer Nerd]

3 hours ago, deliver42 said:

That's OK. Extra tipping isn't necessary, though I'm one that does. My beef is with the people that take off the auto grats.

I concur. Removal of autograts should be banned. Autograts should be treated like port charges and taxes. If you go on the cruise, they are paid and no refunds. If you miss the cruise they are returned. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

 

[Computer Nerd]

50 minutes ago, LXA350 said:

 

In the US, with their developing country system 

Developing country system? Have you gone mad???

[LXA350]

7 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

@LXA350 you know I don't always agree with you, or maybe it is just the way you say things, but you do make many interesting and valid points. But why do you always have to come across like you are attacking  the U.S.? It gets old and tiring.

 

Anyway, one thought I have is the tipping system may have initially started out in the service industry as a way to motivate people to actually provide the service that they are supposed to be providing. I have been to non-tipping countries where service has been pretty poor at times. But yes, it can be confusing and seem archaic to a visitor here in the U.S.  It can even be confusing to an American. You are also correct that tipping in this country seems less like a gesture if appreciation but an expectation. I have no idea if that is how it began or if that is what it has evolved into.

 

However, for better or worse , it is the system that is in place and I suspect your frustration and lack of understanding is not likely to change it any time soon.

 

 

 

I like to be straight to the point, which makes my comments not always the most diplomatic. Even that quite a few things are frustrate, really  annoy me  or just makes me shake my head about things are done in the US does not mean that I am not a friend of you people, to be clear🙂

 

As you said this is what the system is and obviously when I am in a Restaurant and you have to add another 15 or 20% in the US this is what it is and I am not seeing as doing a favor I see it as part of my obligation to pay. But honestly running around the ship all the time with cash and tipping everyone is not what I see as an enjoyable experience. I have no problem to pay more upfront but as this is not in my culture this is not something I enjoy doing. This doesn't mean that I am not tipping the stateroom attendant at the end of the cruise or excellent service staff.

 

If RCL will change the way they handle the gratuity on cruises they sell to customers outside of the US, they should just increase the base fare and have the gratuity part be allocated to the crew without giving even this element as an option to be removed.

[Computer Nerd]

14 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Truly, I gave no idea why why a barber, a business man who owns his own business, is expected to be tipped when other business owners would not.

 

And you don't come across as mean. Apparently you know how to make a point without turning it into an attack.

Most, if not all, barbers in a barber shop do not own the shop (unless we are talking about the little place on the corner somewhere).

[Ocean Boy]

2 minutes ago, Computer Nerd said:

Most, if not all, barbers in a barber shop do not own the shop (unless we are talking about the little place on the corner somewhere).

That is why I specifically mentioned the owner. That was the example the person I quoted used.

[Computer Nerd]

15 minutes ago, amurray88 said:

I hear you - and the wages you quote are horrific if true. And of course I won't compare a pilot to a steward.

I'm sure the likes of restaurant workers in the UK must love US tourists too as they're all on a decent wage (minimum wage here in the UK is £8.72 - approx $11/hour and alot of places pay what we call the real living wage which is £9.30...approx $12/hour)...not bad if they're getting an extra £5-10 an hour on top of that!!

Most waitresses/waiters in the States earn sub-minimum wage with the expectation of a tip to bring them to at least minimum wage (if they are good, well above minimum wage). In Florida, the rate they earn from the business is only $2.73 per hour, hence the tip. The amount of the tip can be adjusted based on what level of service you actually receive. That is one reason I prefer the American model. In Europe, they make much more and if they do a lousy job they still earn the same amount of money. In the States, they have to do their job well to make good money.

[goldfish65]

12 minutes ago, Computer Nerd said:

Most waitresses/waiters in the States earn sub-minimum wage with the expectation of a tip to bring them to at least minimum wage (if they are good, well above minimum wage). In Florida, the rate they earn from the business is only $2.73 per hour, hence the tip. The amount of the tip can be adjusted based on what level of service you actually receive. That is one reason I prefer the American model. In Europe, they make much more and if they do a lousy job they still earn the same amount of money. In the States, they have to do their job well to make good money.

Thank you. My employer pays $3.25/hr. With tips I do okay, if the system is changed, who knows all the consequences to my livelihood.

 

The point I am trying to make, the push to change the system may be well-meaning, but the workers in these jobs believe we would be worse off. We don't get much of a voice about it.

Edited May 30, 2020 by goldfish65

[Billy Baltic]

18 minutes ago, Computer Nerd said:

That is one reason I prefer the American model. In Europe, they make much more and if they do a lousy job they still earn the same amount of money.

If the model works so well why only apply it to some people who provide a service? Why stop there? Why not pay a pilot $20k a year and they get the other $180k based on their arrival time stats for the year. 

[amurray88]

41 minutes ago, LXA350 said:

 

I like to be straight to the point, which makes my comments not always the most diplomatic. Even that quite a few things are frustrate, really  annoy me  or just makes me shake my head about things are done in the US does not mean that I am not a friend of you people, to be clear🙂

 

As you said this is what the system is and obviously when I am in a Restaurant and you have to add another 15 or 20% in the US this is what it is and I am not seeing as doing a favor I see it as part of my obligation to pay. But honestly running around the ship all the time with cash and tipping everyone is not what I see as an enjoyable experience. I have no problem to pay more upfront but as this is not in my culture this is not something I enjoy doing. This doesn't mean that I am not tipping the stateroom attendant at the end of the cruise or excellent service staff.

 

If RCL will change the way they handle the gratuity on cruises they sell to customers outside of the US, they should just increase the base fare and have the gratuity part be allocated to the crew without giving even this element as an option to be removed.

Just to confirm on your last point...

 

Normally cruises are more expensive in the UK - the last few I have booked I have used a US TA as it has saved me hundreds of £s. 

 

I was meant to be on the meraviglia in 4weeks (cries and sobs in the background)..I saved £700 booking through a US TA.

 

However, UK TAs are actually looking cheaper next year for RCI and I've booked with them. I know we can't mention names on here but there's a TA who has both UK and US sites. For our sailing next year... UK site £1050 (approx $1,300), US site $1,750. This is of course down to the prices RCI give each region but typically US is far far cheaper for same room, same conditions etc.

[Seville2Cabo]

1 hour ago, Billy Baltic said:

If the model works so well why only apply it to some people who provide a service? Why stop there? Why not pay a pilot $20k a year and they get the other $180k based on their arrival time stats for the year. 

Because I want the pilot focused on arriving safely and not on time.   You need to compensate people to achieve the goals you want.  

When every I go to a new country, I take five minutes to look up their tipping culture.  Not really rocket science.  

As far as running around the ship using your cruise time tipping, I think the total time for me on all tips in less then 10 minutes on a 10 day cruise.  There are always small bills with my sea pass (no wallet) and when I order drinks, just reach in my pocket for the sea pass and pull out a couple singles.  At the end off the cruise, If I see the steward, great, if not, I just leave in the envelope in the room. No big deal

 

[Billy Baltic]

10 minutes ago, Seville2Cabo said:

Because I want the pilot focused on arriving safely and not on time.   You need to compensate people to achieve the goals you want.

OK then. Pay him 90% of his salary based on safety goals. The reality is an airline couldn’t retain pilots on those terms because someone else would compensate him properly for his role. That won’t happen for the ‘tipping’ services because everyone in the area is at the same thing. 
Every time these tipping threads appear I tell myself not to read them. I’ve got to improve at that 😇 

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, Computer Nerd said:

Most, if not all, barbers in a barber shop do not own the shop (unless we are talking about the little place on the corner somewhere).

I guess that depends where you are from/live. Here, most barber shops are owned by one of the barbers. I see 1, 2, and 3 chair shops. 

[Computer Nerd]

4 hours ago, Billy Baltic said:

If the model works so well why only apply it to some people who provide a service? Why stop there? Why not pay a pilot $20k a year and they get the other $180k based on their arrival time stats for the year. 

Quite frankly, because we have a lot of non-Americans in the US who believe if they don't have to tip at home why should they tip here? And then there are others who are complete jerks knowing they should tip but because they don't have to, they won't (just like the jerks who pull their autograts on a cruise ship).

As for specifically airline pilots (which is a stupid comparison since I specifically spoke about waiters/waitresses), online times are quite often missed by things that are beyond a pilots control so if you didn't tip a pilot because you ran through a storm and were late you'd be punishing the wrong person (not that that doesn't happen anyway).

[Computer Nerd]

3 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I guess that depends where you are from/live. Here, most barber shops are owned by one of the barbers. I see 1, 2, and 3 chair shops. 

I live in a town of 75k and the county has just over 100k. I only know of one barbershop (in the county area) that has less than 6 chairs and most have 8-10 with 3-6 people working at a time.

[Milwaukee Eight]

7 minutes ago, Computer Nerd said:

I live in a town of 75k and the county has just over 100k. I only know of one barbershop (in the county area) that has less than 6 chairs and most have 8-10 with 3-6 people working at a time.

We are not accustomed to barbershops that big here in my areas of Florida.  We used to have salons in stores in the Malls but they seemed to have disappeared. Dillard’s used to have salons and I remember Belk’s as well. All gone. 
 

Our County, is bigger by land that some States. However, we are not all stacked on top of each other. 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Milwaukee Eight

[grapau27]

6 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I guess that depends where you are from/live. Here, most barber shops are owned by one of the barbers. I see 1, 2, and 3 chair shops. 

My Barber owns his shop and has 2 chairs.

[Computer Nerd]

6 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

We are not accustomed to barbershops that big here in my areas of Florida.  We used to have salons in stores in the Malls but they seemed to have disappeared. Dillard’s used to have salons and I remember Belk’s as well. All gone. 
 

Our County, is bigger by land that some States. However, we are not all stacked on top of each other. 

Which county?

[Milwaukee Eight]

11 minutes ago, Computer Nerd said:

Which county?

Volusia 

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Milwaukee Eight