jrblach Posted June 14, 2020 #1 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Business week article on Zandam. apparently it sailed ANYWAY in early March after all the problems with covid and the Diamond Princess and Grand Princess. absolutely amazing. https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-zaandam-pariah-ship/?srnd=businessweek-v2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted June 14, 2020 #2 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Wow, that’s a powerful article. A little benefit of hindsight but it sure leaves a lot to be desired by several parties including HAL, local government and the health organization’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaktreerb Posted June 14, 2020 #3 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Thanks for posting. Our Eurodam cruise to Hawaii on March 18th was cancelled by HAL. At the time even I felt we might be safer on a ship. In the US there were food shortages and a lack of toilet paper and cleaning supplies. A lot of the tragedy of this pandemic was related daily as it occurred, recorded on these cruise critic pages. Reflecting now all I feel is sadness for the people and the cruise companies caught up in the inability of the world community to show compassion and humanity in providing for each country’s own citizens and the citizens of the world community as a whole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaHunt Posted June 14, 2020 #4 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) That article made me so sad, though it was very enlightening to read it as described by people onboard. I feel bad for all, and it absolutely points as to why cruises stopped. And when it mentioned "At nightfall, with the ship anchored in the harbor, residents gathered for impromptu protests, blaring their car horns and screaming angrily across the water" it reminded me of the Sun Princess reports of police using tear gas on people trying to block cruisers from Reunion Island. It seemed like no one wanted a cruise ship at their port at that time. 😢 Edited June 14, 2020 by SeaHunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted June 14, 2020 #5 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) Yea I get both sides. We were on the Amsterdam until the cruise ended and we felt safer there then what we were seeing at home. In hindsight, we should have turned that ship back to FLL after we left Antarctica. I also relate to the weird feeling when we got to DFW airport and were dumped into the public pool. We were lucky that no one (crew, entertainer, segment guest) got on with the virus. I also get why people did not want a cruise ship in port. Look at what the Princess ship did to spread the virus in Australia. Some ridiculous percentage of their cases can be tied back to that ship. Edited June 14, 2020 by KirkNC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PMP Posted June 15, 2020 #6 Share Posted June 15, 2020 An article on a 'pariah' ship written by a total of 6 people.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancal Posted June 15, 2020 #7 Share Posted June 15, 2020 There is no doubt a great deal of litigation in the works over this and a number of other ships of various cruise lines. Lawyers will be rubbing their hands with glee. The cruise ship companies, their in house lawyers, and their outside counsel not so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaktreerb Posted June 15, 2020 #8 Share Posted June 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, iancal said: There is no doubt a great deal of litigation in the works over this and a number of other ships of various cruise lines. Lawyers will be rubbing their hands with glee. The cruise ship companies, their in house lawyers, and their outside counsel not so much! Travel insurance does not cover a pandemic. I hope doctors, hospitals, and other healthcare workers will be sheltered against lawsuits. The CDC gave little to no guidance early on. The Japanese government made the extremely poor decision of keeping people quarantined on a cruise ship. Nursing homes confined their residents in sick environments similar to the cruise ships. Somehow I feel like the cruise industry is the punching bag in this pandemic. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancal Posted June 15, 2020 #9 Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) No doubt the litigation will be directed, as always, against those who the lawyers feel have the 'deepest pockets'. Serious issue for the various cruise lines. We may begin to see the number and the magnitude of those actions in the notes to the year end financial statements of the parent companies...Carnival Corp, RCI Corp, etc. When I was reading through this I could not help but wonder why anyone would want to sign up for a cruise before there is a safe, effective vaccine available or a drug that will eliminate the symptons. Who would in all good conscience would willingly subject themselves, their spouse/partner, etc to this risk? I have no doubt that there will be more articles like this and media attention to the litigation. It has to have a negative impact on future cruising. Edited June 15, 2020 by iancal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Himself Posted June 15, 2020 #10 Share Posted June 15, 2020 2 hours ago, KirkNC said: Wow, that’s a powerful article. A little benefit of hindsight but it sure leaves a lot to be desired by several parties including HAL, local government and the health organization’s. Hindsight gives 20-20 Vision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted June 15, 2020 #11 Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Himself said: Hindsight gives 20-20 Vision. Agreed but as I read an article like this I imagine it being laid out in front of a jury. That would not be good. As I said in another post, I understand some of the mindset as we were in no hurry to get off the Amsterdam but now glad we did. If we could just get our luggage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted June 15, 2020 #12 Share Posted June 15, 2020 35 minutes ago, oaktreerb said: Somehow I feel like the cruise industry is the punching bag in this pandemic. Some of that is deserved, 27 ships had at least one case of CV, hundreds died and to make matters worse, thousands floated around for weeks trying to find a port. Princess lied to Australia which led to a significant impact on their CV cases Having said that there is plenty of blame to go around to government and health organizations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancal Posted June 15, 2020 #13 Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) Hindsight does give 20-20 vision. But it also points out deficiencies, unvarnished facts, and can be the impetus for much need change and improvement. No doubt the courts will ultimately decide on what constituted duty of care, responsibility, etc and assign damages. The thing is that we only know a tiny portion of the facts.. I suspect the majority of the salient facts will come out during discovery and any court proceedings. Edited June 15, 2020 by iancal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare cruisemom42 Posted June 15, 2020 #14 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Thanks for posting this -- I also read it earlier. It's long but certainly paints a chilling picture of what those on board both Zaandam and Rotterdam endured. The statements from HAL spokespeople and from Orlando Ashford left me shaking my head. There truly did not seem to be a real appreciation either before or during the event of just how serious the situation was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare cbr663 Posted June 15, 2020 #15 Share Posted June 15, 2020 It's a shocking article that clearly shows that HAL put profits above all else. It also clearly demonstrates that there needs to be some very serious changes made to the cruising model before any ship should be allowed to sail again. My belief is that until a safe vaccine is discovered and administered to large numbers of people, this incident will happen again with pretty much the same result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Himself Posted June 15, 2020 #16 Share Posted June 15, 2020 15 hours ago, KirkNC said: Agreed but as I read an article like this I imagine it being laid out in front of a jury. That would not be good. As I said in another post, I understand some of the mindset as we were in no hurry to get off the Amsterdam but now glad we did. If we could just get our luggage. I hope you do get your luggage. I think they should heave sent the AMSTERDAM to Ft. Lauderdale FIRST before wening the Ship to Africa and Manila. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted June 15, 2020 #17 Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Himself said: I hope you do get your luggage. I think they should heave sent the AMSTERDAM to Ft. Lauderdale FIRST before wening the Ship to Africa and Manila. The original plan was that the Amsterdam was going to South Africa to get fuel and then on to FL. It was supposed to be there in late April. Many who are Florida residents were told they could come to the ship and pickup their luggage, no shipping so the prepared accordingly. At this point I am guessing we might see our luggage by October. Not sure what shape it will be in but at least we prepared ours for shipping. Edited June 15, 2020 by KirkNC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Himself Posted June 15, 2020 #18 Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 hour ago, KirkNC said: The original plan was that the Amsterdam was going to South Africa to get fuel and then on to FL. It was supposed to be there in late April. Many who are Florida residents were told they could come to the ship and pickup their luggage, no shipping so the prepared accordingly. At this point I am guessing we might see our luggage by October. Not sure what shape it will be in but at least we prepared ours for shipping. I find this to be degusting. You should have had it during May.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Girl Posted June 15, 2020 #19 Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Himself said: I find this to be degusting. You should have had it during May.. I find it understandable that the Amsterdam was considering the welfare of its crew and staff over people's luggage. If I recall correctly, the Amsterdam was on its way to FLL when the captain was instructed to turn around and deliver his crew and staff to their home countries. A decision may have been just made that the cruise calendar was going to be substantially later than originally thought. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dockman Posted June 15, 2020 #20 Share Posted June 15, 2020 my brother and his wife were on the zaandam cruise....ultimately they made it home safely....i will spend a day with brother next week and will recap his version of what he experienced after his visit to my home.....i have no doubt that he will have quite a detailed account.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted June 15, 2020 #21 Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tampa Girl said: I find it understandable that the Amsterdam was considering the welfare of its crew and staff over people's luggage. If I recall correctly, the Amsterdam was on its way to FLL when the captain was instructed to turn around and deliver his crew and staff to their home countries. A decision may have been just made that the cruise calendar was going to be substantially later than originally thought. So they are only capable of performing one task? Can’t they do two things at once? Not arguing that getting the crew off is important just saying most businesses can multitask. Seems like they could have arranged to off load the luggage while at anchor for a month in Manila Bay. What does one do all day while at anchor? Edited June 15, 2020 by KirkNC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storylady Posted June 15, 2020 #22 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Another interesting article that I haven’t seen posted. Media seems to like to point out cruise ships, but what about resorts, planes, restaurants, theme parks, concerts, sports events etc. haven’t seen the media say much about them. http://www.yourcruisecoach.com/cruise-travel-and-covid-19-perception-vs-reality/?fbclid=IwAR2DQTW7ohbIhwB3UTj0fh_sWkx3ilHmw0wlr-vK-X7xiDmOR49tds69O1k 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFD1 Posted June 15, 2020 #23 Share Posted June 15, 2020 All of this considered, I wonder when Australia will welcome any cruise ship back in port again....and how many protesters will be standing on the dock when it arrives. One of the considerations is not only when the cruise lines will be ready, but when the ports will be ready to receive them and whether or not they will be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancal Posted June 15, 2020 #24 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Oh, on a cruise can I check out, jump in my car and leave town. OR check out and then check in to another hotel in the space of 30 minutes. OR decide on a dining venue at a completely different physical location. OR have access to several state of the art hospital facilities within a 10-20 minute radius, let alone complete health testing facilities and access to all manner of pharma and medical devices. Don't get me wrong. I think cruising is safe and we enjoy it. But please, do not compare it to staying in a land based hotel in Vegas from the standpoint of access to medical care. It is just not on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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