Do you consider the volendam could go???

[USN59-79]

6 minutes ago, bcummin said:

I did not get that negative impression after reading Mary Ann & Bill's detailed blogs.

Barbara

I noticed it, but it wasn't blatant as they are certainly not negative persons.  We have taken a lot of long cruises on the Amsterdam since 2002 including 3 Grand Asia voyages, two half WCs and a wonderful Antarctica cruise.  After our last half WC in 2017, my DW said "No more Amsterdam cruises, please."

[AtlantaCruiser72]

I sailed the Amsterdam on the 14 day Alaska itinerary in late July/Early August of 2019 and found her in excellent condition. There were signs of some ongoing maintenance, but nothing that impacted usage of any public areas. My only complaint was that the aircon did not seem to work properly in the Mainstage - even when the room was empty it was stuffy and warm, and when full it was like a sauna.  Our cabin, which did not have an updated bath, was in excellent upkeep as well. I heard no complaints form other cruisers (aside from the over warm theater). 

 

I always had an impression that when the S&R class ships were built that Carnival Corp "cheaped out" on some of the build quality - HVAC systems, plumbing systems, etc all seem to have more than their fair share of issues on these ships compared to other ships of similar age have had over the years. I also had an impression up until about 2016/17 that the ships were being allowed to get rather long in the tooth and tatty and that maintenance was being deferred whenever possible. It seems that in the last 3/4 years things have been improving, but when maintenance is let go too long, especially   on ships with a mediocre build quality to begin with,  there is only so much that can be done.........

Edited July 2, 2020 by AtlantaCruiser72

[Donald]

While working for HAL I was on Volendam for several seasons. I really liked the ship.

But we had some serious problems inside.

Right after the ship was launched, there were several unfortunate “floods” inside the ship that resulted in serious damage.

The worst of the damage was not known until just a few years ago.

Some of those floods were salt water. Much of that water was able to find its way under the concrete screed on each deck, remaining on top of the steel decking. The salt ate away much of the steel deck plates. It wasn’t discovered until around 2010. At that point, the steel deck plates between the lowest crew deck and the engine room had nearly disappeared. You could walk along some of the crew corridors and look into the engine spaces below, through the large holes that had appeared in the concrete screed on the deck. This was a serious fire emergency hazard. An engine room fire could quite easily spread to accommodation spaces through the holes in the deck.

HAL decided it would be too expensive to repair in a dry dock. They decided to make repairs in operation. But there was “no budget”. So they would fix only a few cabin spaces each cruise. Then the money ran out completely. The project was cancelled.

The holes remain in many areas. The fire hazard remains in many areas.

The ship needs to be seriously upgraded - or scrapped.

[crusinbanjo]

3 hours ago, Donald said:

 

The holes remain in many areas. The fire hazard remains in many areas.

The ship needs to be seriously upgraded - or scrapped.

WOW!  How could they have ever passed a Coast Guard inspection?

 

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by crusinbanjo

[DFD1]

Really interesting information. Thanks for posting it.  If this is taken seriously, I would guess the Volendam will soon be history.

 

We like that ship a lot. Sailed on her four times and enjoyed every cruise. Sadly, ships of that size are slowly slipping away and not being replaced.

[crusinbanjo]

15 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Their worst attribute is their fuel efficiency.  They simply cost too much to operate.  I love the small ships but I think CCL in better times should consider ordering some new energy-efficient smaller ships.  

I would not disagree with that sentiment.  I do think because of the current unpleasantness, the whole cruise industry will need to be consolidated and rebranded.  There will likely be far fewer ships.  I hope that HAL is rebranded as a small sized moderately priced semi luxury line.  This might mean selling the large ships to other lines, scraping the R and S class ships altogether and commissioning  new builds using the size of the S class as the model.  If you look at the CCL stable of cruise lines you can already see how it might make sense to align and re-market the brands of Carnival, Princess and HAL...... Just MHO

Edited July 2, 2020 by crusinbanjo

[DFD1]

39 minutes ago, crusinbanjo said:

I would not disagree with that sentiment.  I do think because of the current unpleasantness, the whole cruise industry will need to be consolidated and rebranded.  There will likely be far fewer ships.  I hope that HAL is rebranded as a small sized moderately priced semi luxury line.  This might mean selling the large ships to other lines, scraping the R and S class ships altogether and commissioning  new builds using the size of the S class as the model.  If you look at the CCL stable of cruise lines you can already see how it might make sense to align and re-market the brands of Carnival, Princess and HAL...... Just MHO

 

I hope you're right.

[NordicPrince]

I have no idea what posters are saying about floating amusement parks and mega ships on the HAL new builds. DW and I were on the Koningsdam in January and it is far from a massive build. It is basically a traditional ship with no waterslides etc. It has a very nice aft pool and a beautiful main pool. The addition of the Music Walk is an added plus.

 

The ship does not feel crowded at all. There are only 2600 passengers on board.

 

Compared to Royal Caribbean's behemoths it is a smaller medium sized ship. Even the new Celebrity ships are in the 125 to 140 gwt range.

 

The larger sized amenities on the Koningsdam such as a real main pool make the ship more enjoyable.

 

So it doesn't have a real promenade deck. Get over it. There are plenty of other places to sit and enjoy being at sea.

 

Sad to say but HAL has the same customer base as Cadillac has had. And that it why the Cadillac brand has been in trouble. Too late to change and lost out to its competitors.

 

We were on the Veendam in 2011 and 2012 to Bermuda. Very nice cruise, it was great to be able to dock in downtown Hamilton. But even then all HAL CC posters could complain about was that the AC was screwed up. You people can't make up your mind.

 

At least on the new builds everything works just perfectly.

 

 I've been on Viking and the ships are new and beautiful. You have to pay 2.5 more than HAL to be on them, less than on a high end luxury line. However you get a whole lot more pluses than HAL such as an included excursion in each port and included wine and beer service at meals. Sorry there is no promenade deck.

 

Maybe this is what the new normal for HAL traditionalists has to be.

 

Otherwise I think HAL has winners with Koningsdam, Niew Statendam and Ryndam.

 

We've been cruising since 1990.

 

 

 

 

[Himself]

8 hours ago, Donald said:

While working for HAL I was on Volendam for several seasons. I really liked the ship.

But we had some serious problems inside.

Right after the ship was launched, there were several unfortunate “floods” inside the ship that resulted in serious damage.

The worst of the damage was not known until just a few years ago.

Some of those floods were salt water. Much of that water was able to find its way under the concrete screed on each deck, remaining on top of the steel decking. The salt ate away much of the steel deck plates. It wasn’t discovered until around 2010. At that point, the steel deck plates between the lowest crew deck and the engine room had nearly disappeared. You could walk along some of the crew corridors and look into the engine spaces below, through the large holes that had appeared in the concrete screed on the deck. This was a serious fire emergency hazard. An engine room fire could quite easily spread to accommodation spaces through the holes in the deck.

HAL decided it would be too expensive to repair in a dry dock. They decided to make repairs in operation. But there was “no budget”. So they would fix only a few cabin spaces each cruise. Then the money ran out completely. The project was cancelled.

The holes remain in many areas. The fire hazard remains in many areas.

The ship needs to be seriously upgraded - or scrapped.

It sounds like shoddy at Fincanteiri. Carnival likes them because they are cheaper.  I am sorry to hear this sa I haved liked and asiled this ship many times.  

[iancal]

It also sound very much to me  like shoddy mtce at HAL.  They owned and operated the ship AND they were aware of the issue.

 

 Deferred mtce at it's best....where the customers will not see it so it is a dandy way to cut costs and carry on until something untoward occurs.

 

It is one of the reasons why we have avoided older ships....on all cruise lines. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by iancal

[YXU AC*SE]

11 hours ago, Donald said:

The holes remain in many areas. The fire hazard remains in many areas.

The ship needs to be seriously upgraded - or scrapped.

 

Didn't have to scroll too far to find these ...    I get that mechanical things fail, but a hole in a deck is a bit off-putting. 

Source: https://cgmix.uscg.mil/psix/psixsearch.aspx   Scott.  

 

 

[Sir PMP]

1 hour ago, YXU AC*SE said:

 

Didn't have to scroll too far to find these ...    I get that mechanical things fail, but a hole in a deck is a bit off-putting. 

Source: https://cgmix.uscg.mil/psix/psixsearch.aspx   Scott.  

 

 

So, inspected, repaired and approved, shouldn't that be the end of it.

[iancal]

We were on a cruise about 12 years ago. One of our table mates was a naval engineer.  He had been consulting for a number of years.  Very interesting guy.  He mentioned that he had done some pre build consulting work on the ship that we were sailing and from time to time consulted with a number of cruise lines in the pre build stage and on dry dock work/reconfig work  

 

I asked him about cruising.  Was it not a busman's holiday for him.  What cruise line did he like, etc etc.  I took away two things from our conversation.

 

The first thing he advised was never judge a book by the inside, ie never judge a ships condition by the customer areas.  The important things are behind the walls, below the decks where cruisers cannot see.  The second was that he said was that he  avoided cruises on older cruise ships because of the above....what he could not see.  

Edited July 2, 2020 by iancal

[LEtue]

On 7/1/2020 at 3:23 PM, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

 

Both Amsterdam and Zaandam have done the 14 day Alaska cruise in past, albeit from Seattle, but if HAL wishes to keep the itinerary, either from Vancouver or Seattle, any of the Rotterdam class vessels can easily do those sailings minus the EXC zodiac shore excursions.

True, so hopefully one of the ships will take it over.  Hoping to sail this itinerary so fingers crossed that it will still be available.  For now it is waiting game to see what happens to the 2021 sailings once the cruise lines start up again.  

[rkacruiser]

7 hours ago, Himself said:

It sounds like shoddy at Fincanteiri. 

 

I have posted observations on this Message Board about my experience on the 2 year old--at that time--Veendam.  Too much time was spent in my outside stateroom's bathroom during that cruise by a maintenance team repairing a minor item, grout around the bathtub, than should be necessary.

[crusinbanjo]

10 hours ago, NordicPrince said:

I have no idea what posters are saying about floating amusement parks and mega ships on the HAL new builds. DW and I were on the Koningsdam in January and it is far from a massive build. It is basically a traditional ship with no waterslides etc. It has a very nice aft pool and a beautiful main pool. The addition of the Music Walk is an added plus.

 

The ship does not feel crowded at all. There are only 2600 passengers on board.

 

Compared to Royal Caribbean's behemoths it is a smaller medium sized ship. Even the new Celebrity ships are in the 125 to 140 gwt range.

 

The larger sized amenities on the Koningsdam such as a real main pool make the ship more enjoyable.

 

So it doesn't have a real promenade deck. Get over it. There are plenty of other places to sit and enjoy being at sea.

 

Sad to say but HAL has the same customer base as Cadillac has had. And that it why the Cadillac brand has been in trouble. Too late to change and lost out to its competitors.

 

We were on the Veendam in 2011 and 2012 to Bermuda. Very nice cruise, it was great to be able to dock in downtown Hamilton. But even then all HAL CC posters could complain about was that the AC was screwed up. You people can't make up your mind.

 

At least on the new builds everything works just perfectly.

 

 I've been on Viking and the ships are new and beautiful. You have to pay 2.5 more than HAL to be on them, less than on a high end luxury line. However you get a whole lot more pluses than HAL such as an included excursion in each port and included wine and beer service at meals. Sorry there is no promenade deck.

 

Maybe this is what the new normal for HAL traditionalists has to be.

 

Otherwise I think HAL has winners with Koningsdam, Niew Statendam and Ryndam.

 

We've been cruising since 1990.

 

 

 

 

Never been on the big boys, never will.  Biggest ship we sailed was Zuiderdam.  Did not care for that.  We will stick to the little guys.  BTW, I loved my Cadillac, and have been cruising since 1990 as well.  No disrespect intended, just IMHO

Edited July 2, 2020 by crusinbanjo

[cruisemom42]

11 hours ago, NordicPrince said:

I have no idea what posters are saying about floating amusement parks and mega ships on the HAL new builds. DW and I were on the Koningsdam in January and it is far from a massive build. It is basically a traditional ship with no waterslides etc. It has a very nice aft pool and a beautiful main pool. The addition of the Music Walk is an added plus.

 

The ship does not feel crowded at all. There are only 2600 passengers on board.

 

"Only 2600" passengers seems overwhelming when my favorite ship size is those that carry 350-750 or thereabouts. It is not an issue of crowding -- it is the sheer size and number of souls aboard that I find off-putting. I make exceptions for HAL because of some of their itineraries, but I am not keen to go on the newest, biggest ships. (And since they have less alluring itineraries, I may not need to....)

 

 

Quote

 

 I've been on Viking and the ships are new and beautiful. You have to pay 2.5 more than HAL to be on them, less than on a high end luxury line. However you get a whole lot more pluses than HAL such as an included excursion in each port and included wine and beer service at meals. Sorry there is no promenade deck.

 

Maybe this is what the new normal for HAL traditionalists has to be.

 

 

Maybe. I wonder though whether a large contingent of HAL passengers would be willing to pay the increased price. Which, by the way, is what HAL would undoubtedly have to charge if they created a new build the size of their old S class vessels.

 

Edited to add:  Cruising since the early 1970s....

Edited July 3, 2020 by cruisemom42

[rkacruiser]

14 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

I wonder though whether a large contingent of HAL passengers would be willing to pay the increased price.

 

An opinion:

 

Lots on CC on all Message Boards are being lured to book with "amazing" "deals" that I fear are going to be quite disappointing.  

 

Increased price for a cruise?  If one thinks that the per day per person cost is not going to increase--if and when the cruise companies are going to be able to resume their business--I believe you are going to be in for quite a shock.  

[cruisemom42]

4 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Increased price for a cruise?  If one thinks that the per day per person cost is not going to increase--if and when the cruise companies are going to be able to resume their business--I believe you are going to be in for quite a shock.  

 

I do understand that. But given what I read on the HAL boards constantly, I would be surprised if a lot of HAL regulars would be willing to pay as much as a Viking cruise to continue cruising on smaller, new HAL ships...

[iancal]

Agree.  Many seem to continually moan, groan, and complain with the adder that they would be willing to pay more in order to go back to what they consider to be good old days. 

 

Thing is, I do not see many of them doing that.  Is perhaps that they have an understanding that paying 10-25 percent more will return them to the good old days.  It won't.

 

My guess is that many of them are stuck in a rut, familiar  with the crew, the ships, and some fellow regular passengers to the point where they will never consider another cruise line.  No doubt HAL is aware of this acts accordingly.  Or unwilling to give up their precious free laundry or the occasional free nosh at an alternative restaurant.   Besides, who reads or pays attention to cruise cruise critic?

Edited July 3, 2020 by iancal

[kazu]

10 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I do understand that. But given what I read on the HAL boards constantly, I would be surprised if a lot of HAL regulars would be willing to pay as much as a Viking cruise to continue cruising on smaller, new HAL ships...

 

There is certainly a segment of HAL cruisers have shown they will pay the higher prices.  Prinsendam commanded significantly higher prices generally and the ship often sailed full.  The ship had a very loyal following.

 

If HAL were to put more quality into the small ship sailings I suspect they would find a market for the smaller ships.  JMO and I could be wrong of course.  I have been before 😉 

 

 

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, kazu said:

 

There is certainly a segment of HAL cruisers have shown they will pay the higher prices.  Prinsendam commanded significantly higher prices generally and the ship often sailed full.  The ship had a very loyal following.

 

If HAL were to put more quality into the small ship sailings I suspect they would find a market for the smaller ships.  JMO and I could be wrong of course.  I have been before 😉 

 

 

 

I agree there is a segment. But not enough for a whole fleet of S-class ships, which is what I think was suggested.

 

Keeping in mind that even the S-class carry about 1.5 times the number of passengers on Prinsendam, I don't think HAL could do it.  Yes Prinsendam often (but not always) sailed full....but there was also some fire-sale last minute pricing to get up the numbers on some cruises (my parents took advantage of a few of those after they retired.)

 

I don't know much about Viking's financing structure, but I continue to be amazed that they can churn out so many new ships, one after another for ocean cruising and still command the prices they do (and payment so far ahead).  I wonder how they will weather this pandemic?  Will they end up being victims of it -- like Renaissance after the Gulf War and 9/11?

[rkacruiser]

7 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

I don't know much about Viking's financing structure, but I continue to be amazed that they can churn out so many new ships, one after another for ocean cruising and still command the prices they do

 

Maybe incorrect in what I "think" I know, but the major developer (and I assume had much financial interests at stake) was also involved in the founding of Royal Viking Line.  It had to be sold after the introduction of Royal Viking Sun, aka Prinsendam II.    As we know, Viking River Cruises was started many years later and has been quite successful.  The decision to branch out to ocean cruises was made and, obviously, the money/credit--whatever--was there to do so.  cruisemom42's reference as to what their future holds is one to watch.  Will we witness a repeat of Renaissance?  I hope not.  

[Rotterdam]

I hope Viking Ocean Cruises does succeed...as far as Royal Viking Line it was a different time.  I laugh when people talk about the great "deals"  they found for their cruises.  People who sailed Royal Viking Line paid their fare, expecting & receiving the best of service, accommodation & food. The per diems were higher than most lines & Royal Viking delivered. Back then the customer to crew ratio was 2 to 1. Now if one is lucky its 3 customers per crew.

People who tout the suites in HAL( which maybe nice) in no way di they compare w Royal Viking.

The economy of scale makes the larger ships less expensive to operate. Also years ago only 6% of the worlds population was ever on a cruise. Hence Carnivore Corp & RCCL building & operating the WALMARTS OF the seas.

I've sailed since the late 60's as a child & still recall real ocean liners...the Italian & french lines, hapag lloyd, home line. sigmar, the old cunard...the .see were real liners w the best of everything..not floating malls.

Unfortunately times change & Royal Viking got caught in bad times.  Some of the old viking ships are still sailing..I'd take a cruise on one of them anyday..they were built for the oceans & handled any sea.

HAL too has changed & the ballroom dancing, caviar & Captains Nite parties tiĺ the wee hours are dead. Now its slides, bowling alleys & buffets.

Funniest thing I read recently was someone wrote"who cares if there's no promenade deck"

Pity the soul that never walked on deck in the middle of the ocean at nite.

I sailed a 16 day TA & MED cruise on her...absolutely wonderful

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, Rotterdam said:

.as far as Royal Viking Line it was a different time.  I laugh when people talk about the great "deals"  they found for their cruises.  People who sailed Royal Viking Line paid their fare, expecting & receiving the best of service, accommodation & food. The per diems were higher than most lines & Royal Viking delivered. 

 

Even Royal Viking Line offered "deals" when I sailed.  My traveling companion and I were teachers approaching the mid-point in our careers.  We were not well to do.  The price per day of our New York-Copenhagen trans-Atlantic voyage was a "deal" at that time in an outside stateroom.  We followed that by a 14 day North Cape cruise, Copenhagen-Copenhagen.  The price per day for that cruise fit our budgets as well.  We paid our fare and expected superior service, food, and accommodation.  We received full measure for what we paid.  With entertainment and special events as an added attraction.  

 

In comparison, our return to New York was on QE2 from Bremerhaven in Tourist Class.  Our price per day was $100/day more than what we had paid for our Royal Viking Sky cruises and inferior in nearly every category that is important to a cruiser.

Quote

1 hour ago, Rotterdam said:

Funniest thing I read recently was someone wrote"who cares if there's no promenade deck"

Pity the soul that never walked on deck in the middle of the ocean at nite.

 

Not so funny to me, but sad.  It's becoming increasingly difficult on all modern ships to find an area when one can view the night sky without ambient life, but such souls are missing one of the things I enjoy:  viewing God's creation in the night sky.

Edited July 3, 2020 by rkacruiser