NCL/RCL team to develop reopening plans for CDC

[greykitty]

Good for you for having this information at your fingertips, @mrlevin, but sorry if you ever do suffer a financial loss on the FCC.

 

@Pcardad, solid advice IMO.  I think many of us 'think' we know what our various insurance policies cover, and then are surprised at some of the clauses.  

 

[RJ2002]

59 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

You all should check your insurance policies and see if they cover a cruise line going under. If they do, well then there isn't a lot to worry about is there?

 

Excellent advice, and we also have checked.   

 

We have an annual travel policy (seemingly not so common among CC members).  It does not cover financial default, nor does our CSP card's included travel coverage.  However, we have always been comfortable to 'self insure' for any additional loss - even before the current calamity.  We don't have any FCCs to consider, and likely will not in the future.  We moved our deposit for our upcoming November Regent cruise to a 2021 sailing.  To us, it just didn't make sense to make the final payment on a cruise which was highly unlikely to sail.

[cerise638]

No one has any right to judge about what is optimism as opposed to unrealistic.  There are lots of people posting who appear to take great delight in pouring cold water on others hopes.  

 

If you don't think cruising is feasible I respect your opinion and if you do I respect that also.  This isn't a game of who is right or wrong.

 

Just take a moment to think how your responses can affect others and their mental health.  It may be cathartic for you to give the glass half full opinion and justify it but it is really depressing for the rest of us.

 

I will not be reading this board for the time being.  This is not because I am putting my head in the sand but because in day to day life I have enough reality.

[Travelcat2]

59 minutes ago, cerise638 said:

No one has any right to judge about what is optimism as opposed to unrealistic.  There are lots of people posting who appear to take great delight in pouring cold water on others hopes.  

 

If you don't think cruising is feasible I respect your opinion and if you do I respect that also.  This isn't a game of who is right or wrong.

 

Just take a moment to think how your responses can affect others and their mental health.  It may be cathartic for you to give the glass half full opinion and justify it but it is really depressing for the rest of us.

 

I will not be reading this board for the time being.  This is not because I am putting my head in the sand but because in day to day life I have enough reality.

 

You are a breath of fresh air - I only can wish that posters would realize the things that you are saying.  Hope that you will return to this board as we need more posters with the sensitivity and empathy that you have!

[tennis]

I think everyone can have a different perspective.  I only know 2 people who have had Covid-19, one was asymptomatic and only found out when tested before surgery.  The other had very minor symptoms.  I am in the elderly category so you’d think I’d know a lot more people who had it.  My son-in-law has had 2 kidney transplants so we are careful to ensure we do not expose him since he has been on drugs to prevent rejection since he was 7.  So from my perspective I can’t wait to travel and am willing to protect myself from getting exposed and would definitely quarantine so we would not expose anyone after we travel.  Cruises are voluntary - no one is forced to go - so I hope our November cruise is not cancelled.

[greykitty]

Muster procedures may be a lot more tolerable going forward, per this article. Developed by RCI, but looks like NCLH will share in this development.  To me this seems good in general, but very helpful with social distancing on board ship for this mandatory process at least.

 

https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/380487/royal-caribbean-updates-outdated-muster-process

[howiefrommd]

On 7/23/2020 at 11:46 AM, Pcardad said:

You all should check your insurance policies and see if they cover a cruise line going under. If they do, well then there isn't a lot to worry about is there?

I did check it and unfortunately since I took a FCC should there be a bankruptcy,  it looks like my travel insurance (nor my credit card) will cover a FCC.  

 

I was trying to explain this to a friend last night and he came up with one of the funniest lines I have heard in awhile.....in describing the FCC (in case of bankruptcy) he said that sounds like the marriage of Charles Ponzi and PT Barnum.  

[cwn]

6 hours ago, greykitty said:

Muster procedures may be a lot more tolerable going forward, per this article. Developed by RCI, but looks like NCLH will share in this development.  To me this seems good in general, but very helpful with social distancing on board ship for this mandatory process at least.

 

https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/380487/royal-caribbean-updates-outdated-muster-process

A bright spot in the future look of cruising. We hated those mass gatherings for muster with many people not paying attention... yes on Regent as well as other ships.

[greykitty]

I wonder if there will be a few interactive questions to answer during the information review, and I suppose a good system will ensure that not every single passenger gets the 'same' quiz, as well as some sort of protocols to prevent 'cheating'. 

 

We used to do this type of electronic review of material at my old employer a lot - they figured out how to make sure we all didn't skip ahead to the final quiz without actually looking at anything.  So many 'click here' and 'choose an response' as we were going along! And CPE credit was hanging in the balance! LOL

 

And, I'm guessing they'll always have the 'old fashioned' way as a back up just in case....

 

But, yes, this sounds like a true innovation that should be a win/win for all.

[Travelcat2]

One must assume that there will be cheating - there is no way to stop it (unless a crew member had to watch people which makes no sense).  If it is a problem for Regent, they can spread muster into more venues.  They already use P7, LV, Constellation Theater and perhaps Chartreuse (not sure) but they could also open CR and even the lounges.  Unfortunately, most people do not pay any attention to what is being said at muster.

 

I have no idea what a CPE credit is but there should be no need to reward people for doing something that will save their lives and the lives of others.  I still feel that Regent passengers should have to sign out a form indicating that they have read the protocols and understand the penalty for not following them.  This could be sent with final documents and presented during check-in (to avoid people filling them out while waiting to board as they currently do with health questionnaires...... this causes crowing around spaces where there is a table to write on and pens to write with.)

 

In terms of muster, Regent states at all musters that they go above and beyond what is required to insure that passengers and crew are well versed in procedures in case of an emergency.  Having done muster on Celebrity on one of our mini-cruises, I can state emphatically that Regent does a 100% better job at muster (we could not hear one word of what was being said during muster on Celebrity and - yes - we did mention it in our comments).

[Pcardad]

Every single lifeboat training I have been on has been different. There is no standardization whatsoever. Sometimes you go outside...sometimes you don't. Sometimes you have to go to a 2nd one after 14 days...sometimes you don't. Apparently it is up to the captain.

[Travelcat2]

5 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

Every single lifeboat training I have been on has been different. There is no standardization whatsoever. Sometimes you go outside...sometimes you don't. Sometimes you have to go to a 2nd one after 14 days...sometimes you don't. Apparently it is up to the captain.

 

Yes - it is up to the captain except for Explorer (and presumably Splendor) where you never go outside.  In case of emergency, the life boats will be lowered to an area where passengers can walk directly onto the boat.  Difficult to explain - it was explained to me a while ago and, in the past year or so have only sailed on Explorer and we do not go outside during muster so what I was told is apparently true.

[Pcardad]

You explained it well - we were on Explorer's Maiden voyage also. Not Splendor yet - had 2 cancelled on me and prob a few more.

[greykitty]

34 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

Every single lifeboat training I have been on has been different. There is no standardization whatsoever. Sometimes you go outside...sometimes you don't. Sometimes you have to go to a 2nd one after 14 days...sometimes you don't. Apparently it is up to the captain.

 

I've read on other forums that SOLAS requirements dictate a lot about where muster stations can physically be.  I bet it's true, as noted below, that newer construction ships have inside stations.  

 

Quoting Chengkp75 below

 

 

what you are not looking at are the construction and arrangement requirements for muster stations.

 

SOLAS Chapter III/B, Regulation 11 lists the requirements for muster station location for all ships, and Regulation 25 lists the additional requirements for passenger ships:

 

Regulation 11.1 "Muster stations shall be provided close to the embarkation stations.  Each muster station shall have sufficient clear deck space to accommodate all persons assigned to muster at that station, but at least 0.35m2."

 

Regulation 25.1: In addition to regulation 11, muster stations must "be in the vicinity of, and permit ready access for passengers to, the embarkation station, unless in the same location"

 

Muster stations are designated at new construction by the classification societies, after determining that the locations meet SOLAS and the class society's rules for ingress and egress, fire protection, lighting and ventilation, and the overriding requirement is SOLAS' requirement that the muster station be at or near the embarkation station (where you actually board the lifeboat).  For practical purposes, for cruise ships, this means on the promenade deck under the boats.  Newer vessels have reduced the size of the promenade decks (and some older ships did not have sufficient outside deck space), so the use of indoor muster stations became required.  As part of this design review by class, alternative muster locations are designated, again if they meet the requirements for space and the other details noted above, and also special needs locations.  However, if a cruise line wished to change muster locations from outdoors to indoors, they would have to show class a valid safety reason for doing so (passenger comfort is not a concern in an emergency), and all such new locations would be subject to study using crowd and crisis management paradigms to determine their fitness to be a muster location, or if this was an original alternative station, then a further alternative station would have to be found.  This and all the changes to documentation and signage on the ship costs a lot of money, has very little chance of showing a safety requirement for the change, which is why you will not find any cruise ship changing their original muster station locations during the life span of the vessel.

4

 

[Pcardad]

0.35m2 is about 3.7ft2 or a box roughly 23 inches on a side.

 

Not a lot of room per person...certainly smaller than some people.

[greykitty]

CPE, btw, is an acronym for Continuing Professional Education.  Many professions require continuing professional education, beyond the first credentialization, to maintain licenses.  

 

These days, many CPE programs are administered electronically.  And, yes,  there are ways to keep an eye on 'cheating' .   Sometimes it's as easy as inserting a polling question at various points of the presentation to ensure someone is actively watching the material; don't respond to the question in time, you receive a  noncomplete for the activity.  

 

I'm guessing RCI has figured out a way to ensure people will pay a minimum amount of attention to the presentation, before trotting down to the physical muster station and being 'checked in' by crew.

 

[greykitty]

3 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

0.35m2 is about 3.7ft2 or a box roughly 23 inches on a side.

 

Not a lot of room per person...certainly smaller than some people.

 

Definitely - especially after a few great meals on board! 

 

 

[Travelcat2]

As mentioned, Regent goes above and beyond SOLAS requirements for muster.  They state this at every muster.  If you are late boarding, you go through muster with a qualified crew member.  

 

Regent does have the space to have every passenger attend a muster meeting but obviously does not have space on the ships to go outside and stand by their lifeboat.  IMHO, going outside during muster is a waste of time.  You are scrunched together and do not really learn anything.  If it is required for passengers to know where their lifeboat is*, have a crew member with a checklist stand by the lifeboat and have guests check in with them within a certain timeframe.

 

*Keep in mind that, should the ship hit something, it is possible that your assigned lifeboat will not be accessible.  An alternate lifeboat should likely be discussed.

[greykitty]

I figured someone on the RC board would dig up an FAQ on the muster program - and indeed they did.

Muster_FAQs.pdf

[CruiserFromMaine]

Thanks for posting this.

 

I would love to give this a try, mostly because that would mean i was actually on a cruise!

 

I liked this part in the Q&A:

Muster 2.0 offers guests a four-hour window to complete the drill checklist via the mobile app or their interactive stateroom television.

 

That means the whole ship won’t have to shut down, very nice. I was also encouraged to read that you have to visit the muster station and that it has been done and approved by the proper authorities.

 

1 hour ago, greykitty said:

I figured someone on the RC board would dig up an FAQ on the muster program - and indeed they did.

 

[Travelcat2]

For anyone that is not aware, the ship that RCG tried this out on (Symphony of the Seas) is the largest ship in the world.  We were docked next to her last November and Explorer looked like a tender boat compared to that massive ship.

 

The plan sounds good.  We just need to remember that there is no “muster station” for passengers on Explorer or Splendor.  Perhaps passengers would need to go to the exit closest to where the lifeboat is.

[greykitty]

49 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said:

For anyone that is not aware, the ship that RCG tried this out on (Symphony of the Seas) is the largest ship in the world.  We were docked next to her last November and Explorer looked like a tender boat compared to that massive ship.

 

The plan sounds good.  We just need to remember that there is no “muster station” for passengers on Explorer or Splendor.  Perhaps passengers would need to go to the exit closest to where the lifeboat is.

Favor, perhaps I misread a post from a while back  regarding the Explorer's inaugural cruise - I thought the theater on the Explorer was used as the muster station.  If not, where does the ship gather passengers for the muster drill? Or where do passengers go, in order to be accounted for by the ship's crew, in case of emergency before going to the life boats?  

 

Maybe we crossing on the terminology?  Maybe it's the 'muster meeting'? 

[cwn]

45 minutes ago, greykitty said:

Favor, perhaps I misread a post from a while back  regarding the Explorer's inaugural cruise - I thought the theater on the Explorer was used as the muster station.  If not, where does the ship gather passengers for the muster drill? Or where do passengers go, in order to be accounted for by the ship's crew, in case of emergency before going to the life boats?  

 

Maybe we crossing on the terminology?  Maybe it's the 'muster meeting'? 

Can’t answer for the Explorer but on the Navigator WC2018,  we gathered in the theater with over flow in the lounge area. Afterwards we walked out in deck to the life boat station. With cruise segments longer than two weeks we had an review over the PA system. Sounds good if the Explorer and the Splendor can skip that last step.

Edited July 25, 2020 by cwn

[greykitty]

Just now, cwn said:

Can’t answer for the Explore but on the Navigator WC3018,  we gathered in the theater with over flow in the lounge area.  Then cruise segments longer than two weeks we had an review over the PA system.

Thanks!  I've read about some of the longer cruises (especially the world cruises), the 'old hands' got more than a tad bored with repetition.  But, after Costa, I would guess just has to be done.  And thank goodness for all of the crew who, I understand, on any reputable line drill tirelessly to react well in emergency.

 

I've thought with enough drill/repetition, if something terrifying happened, people might still be able to cope just through muscle memory.  Or, so we were always told during our office building emergency drills after 9/11.  I always hope I'd at least not totally freeze and be able to follow directions.  

[Travelcat2]

55 minutes ago, greykitty said:

Favor, perhaps I misread a post from a while back  regarding the Explorer's inaugural cruise - I thought the theater on the Explorer was used as the muster station.  If not, where does the ship gather passengers for the muster drill? Or where do passengers go, in order to be accounted for by the ship's crew, in case of emergency before going to the life boats?  

 

Maybe we crossing on the terminology?  Maybe it's the 'muster meeting'? 

 

I used "muster meeting" as a possible alternative to muster.  Regent uses LV, P7, and sometimes Chartreuse in addition to the Constellation Theater.  This is the case on all ships (except Navigator that CWN explained above..  These venues are where passengers are checked off of the list.  The difference is when you go outside.  On Mariner, Voyager and Navigator, you go outside (if the captain decides that it is okay to do so - dependent upon weather, etc.). Explorer and Splendor musters are shorter since you don't have to go outside.

 

It is really helpful to know the ships so that certain things can be envisioned in terms of how they will be able to make the protocol changes..  The way that the ships were 3 years ago (especially LV) is completely different than it is now and Explorer is so different (Splendor as well) is so different than even Regent passengers take a day or so to get acclimated to the layout.  . Note:  I'm not speaking of Navigator as I have not been on her since the refurbishment and will not be on her in the future.   

Edited July 25, 2020 by Travelcat2