Cachecara Posted July 20, 2020 #51 Share Posted July 20, 2020 39 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said: It would look like the rest of the developed world, like the NE of the US. Where you get the total prevalence of the disease to a low level, so you can reopen your economy somewhat with universal mask usage and play whack-a-mole with contact tracing and partial closures until a vaccine comes along. You know, the rational by-the-numbers strategy that all the 1st world countries took. Not like the 2nd/3rd world countries of Russia, Brazil, India, and the US. Mortality rate is a false herring. Especially when you are talking about travelers. It's because the first part of this wave 1.5 in the US was driven by young people, who have a lower mortality rate. But they then transferred to older people; the average age of infected is going back up up again, and if you look at the total US data, the mortalities are going up up again, as there is a lag between covid detection and death, and a lag as young people are transferring it to older people. Other countries don't care if the people coming into their countries with covid are young or old, they will spread it all the same. So mortality rate is just about the worst statistic to look at. So options are like asia and europe. If you are like Asia, then you have universal mask usage, and more intrusive contact tracing. With those in place, countries like singapore, taiwan, HK, and Japan have mostly been able to keep their economy running like normal. restaurants are still open, people are finding ways to work from home, executives are taking temporary paycuts so they don't have to lay off workers, rotating partial closures on a flexible scale as areas have more or less cases. you know, 1st world stuff. (Japan has unemployment of 2.6%!!!!!!) Or even like europe, where you do a long lockdown to get cases under control. Use that lockdown period to increase testing capabilities and a centralized contact tracing. And reopen as cases are very low and only allow travel between similarly low countries. I don't understand how some Americans are so blind that they cannot accept that right now, their COVID response is the laughing stock of the world. Can’t like your post enough. Thank you. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fouremco Posted July 20, 2020 #52 Share Posted July 20, 2020 32 minutes ago, twins_to_alaska said: Italy. Remember how bad they were? See how they flattened out. US. See how we never flattened out but opened up anyway and are going up up up? Note these are total cases so can never go better than flat... the curve won't go back down for instance. 3 minutes ago, twins_to_alaska said: Here's Bahamas. Anyone trying to make a comparison between these three graphs should make sure that they are paying full attention to the scale. The x-axis is identical for all three, but the y-axis varies significantly: Bahamas - 0, 100, 200 Italy - 0, 100K, 200K, 300K US - 0, 2M, 4M 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare hcat Posted July 20, 2020 #53 Share Posted July 20, 2020 5 hours ago, zitsky said: Maybe we should start making a list of the places we can still go to. No Canada, No Europe, No Bahamas. What about Mexico and the Caribbean? Puerto Rico ( part of U.S,) now has strict neg covid test results and quarentine rules.. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/article244283712.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twins_to_alaska Posted July 20, 2020 #54 Share Posted July 20, 2020 24 minutes ago, Fouremco said: Anyone trying to make a comparison between these three graphs should make sure that they are paying full attention to the scale. The x-axis is identical for all three, but the y-axis varies significantly: Bahamas - 0, 100, 200 Italy - 0, 100K, 200K, 300K US - 0, 2M, 4M Definitely... I was showing flattening vs non-flattening which is true regardless of the number of cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare hcat Posted July 20, 2020 #55 Share Posted July 20, 2020 42 minutes ago, Cachecara said: I can’t blame them or anyone else that chooses to ban USA. Until people act like mature, responsible adults vs ignorant, selfish children, I don’t see a curve reversal. Jmo Some individuals and groups do their own thing. Do not care about others. Some groups are out partying and protesting in large groups....& in a big way. ..Police had to clear out 700+ night time beach party goers at Long Beach NY.. most without masks and NO distancing. Really disgraceful... The rest of us suffer...most of us worked very hard to flatten the curve in NY but they are out to ruin it for everyone! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fouremco Posted July 20, 2020 #56 Share Posted July 20, 2020 18 minutes ago, twins_to_alaska said: Definitely... I was showing flattening vs non-flattening which is true regardless of the number of cases. There are those on CC whom I feared might focus on the similarity between the US and Bahamian curves and fail to realize the difference in absolute numbers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonnaTLC Posted July 21, 2020 #57 Share Posted July 21, 2020 7 hours ago, hvbaskey said: Neither can the Toronto Blue Jays (MLB) - announced this week, they are not permitted to play in Toronto (even with an empty stadium). They need to find a new home base until further notice. Whoa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hvbaskey Posted July 21, 2020 #58 Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 hours ago, UnorigionalName said: It would look like the rest of the developed world, like the NE of the US. Where you get the total prevalence of the disease to a low level, so you can reopen your economy somewhat with universal mask usage and play whack-a-mole with contact tracing and partial closures until a vaccine comes along. You know, the rational by-the-numbers strategy that all the 1st world countries took. Not like the 2nd/3rd world countries of Russia, Brazil, India, and the US. Mortality rate is a false herring. Especially when you are talking about travelers. It's because the first part of this wave 1.5 in the US was driven by young people, who have a lower mortality rate. But they then transferred to older people; the average age of infected is going back up up again, and if you look at the total US data, the mortalities are going up up again, as there is a lag between covid detection and death, and a lag as young people are transferring it to older people. Other countries don't care if the people coming into their countries with covid are young or old, they will spread it all the same. So mortality rate is just about the worst statistic to look at. So options are like asia and europe. If you are like Asia, then you have universal mask usage, and more intrusive contact tracing. With those in place, countries like singapore, taiwan, HK, and Japan have mostly been able to keep their economy running like normal. restaurants are still open, people are finding ways to work from home, executives are taking temporary paycuts so they don't have to lay off workers, rotating partial closures on a flexible scale as areas have more or less cases. you know, 1st world stuff. (Japan has unemployment of 2.6%!!!!!!) Or even like europe, where you do a long lockdown to get cases under control. Use that lockdown period to increase testing capabilities and a centralized contact tracing. And reopen as cases are very low and only allow travel between similarly low countries. I don't understand how some Americans are so blind that they cannot accept that right now, their COVID response is the laughing stock of the world. Very well and rationally said. 🌻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.T.B. Posted July 21, 2020 #59 Share Posted July 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Cachecara said: I can’t blame them or anyone else that chooses to ban USA. Until people act like mature, responsible adults vs ignorant, selfish children, I don’t see a curve reversal. Jmo Oh, so never then...... 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted July 21, 2020 #60 Share Posted July 21, 2020 The news media in Athens. GA (University of GA) showed at bar packed with young people partying away...no masks...no social distancing. Really dumb. Wonder why the rest of the world wants to ban Americans from traveling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeroWA Posted July 21, 2020 #61 Share Posted July 21, 2020 13 hours ago, zitsky said: Maybe we should start making a list of the places we can still go to. No Canada, No Europe, No Bahamas. What about Mexico and the Caribbean? No Australia, No New Zealand, No UK, No Brazil (as if you'd want to go there at the moment) The list goes on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeroWA Posted July 21, 2020 #62 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, verizon said: That’s very true.I hope Celebrity will delete Bahamas in future cruises as a port stop. Not just Celebrity - why not all of the cruise lines ? (Tongue in cheek) Edited July 21, 2020 by GeroWA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeRick Posted July 21, 2020 #63 Share Posted July 21, 2020 14 hours ago, UnorigionalName said: It would look like the rest of the developed world, like the NE of the US. Where you get the total prevalence of the disease to a low level, so you can reopen your economy somewhat with universal mask usage and play whack-a-mole with contact tracing and partial closures until a vaccine comes along. You know, the rational by-the-numbers strategy that all the 1st world countries took. Not like the 2nd/3rd world countries of Russia, Brazil, India, and the US. Mortality rate is a false herring. Especially when you are talking about travelers. It's because the first part of this wave 1.5 in the US was driven by young people, who have a lower mortality rate. But they then transferred to older people; the average age of infected is going back up up again, and if you look at the total US data, the mortalities are going up up again, as there is a lag between covid detection and death, and a lag as young people are transferring it to older people. Other countries don't care if the people coming into their countries with covid are young or old, they will spread it all the same. So mortality rate is just about the worst statistic to look at. So options are like asia and europe. If you are like Asia, then you have universal mask usage, and more intrusive contact tracing. With those in place, countries like singapore, taiwan, HK, and Japan have mostly been able to keep their economy running like normal. restaurants are still open, people are finding ways to work from home, executives are taking temporary paycuts so they don't have to lay off workers, rotating partial closures on a flexible scale as areas have more or less cases. you know, 1st world stuff. (Japan has unemployment of 2.6%!!!!!!) Or even like europe, where you do a long lockdown to get cases under control. Use that lockdown period to increase testing capabilities and a centralized contact tracing. And reopen as cases are very low and only allow travel between similarly low countries. I don't understand how some Americans are so blind that they cannot accept that right now, their COVID response is the laughing stock of the world. Overall I agree with your post. I have similar thoughts. And deep frustrations as an American who followed all the lockdown and mask rules since March in a northeast state that followed all the rules since March too. Our cases have been in control and we have had phased re-opening pretty much like the European model. But we are now still threatened from surges happening in other states. It is disheartening. Are some younger Americans "blind" as you say or just don't seem to care? I think it is the latter. But it is not all Americans. We know we are a "laughing stock" to some in other countries, but what is there to laugh at really? The misery of some of us who did the right things but still are hopelessly stuck in this mess? The tragedy of seeing some of our friends and family members pass away before their time? That is not very funny to me anyway. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulh84 Posted July 21, 2020 #64 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Here's interesting perspective on how frustrating changes like this must be. This is just one day and one obstacle... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare hcat Posted July 21, 2020 #65 Share Posted July 21, 2020 16 hours ago, hcat said: Some individuals and groups do their own thing. Do not care about others. Some groups are out partying and protesting in large groups....& in a big way. ..Police had to clear out 700+ night time beach party goers at Long Beach NY.. most without masks and NO distancing. Really disgraceful... The rest of us suffer...most of us worked very hard to flatten the curve in NY but they are out to ruin it for everyone! Follow up on this total failure. NYC apparently closed its beaches and then allegedly arranged for busses to take its residents to beaches outside NYC . Maybe also state parks.. which are open to State residents. Now in response, City of Long Beach NY will no longer issue beach day passes for weekends and the beach will close at dusk. Have to wonder how much Covid will spread because of fiascos like this..700 partiers on the beach...no distancing, few masks! Maybe no one will ever accept US cruisers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare hcat Posted July 21, 2020 #66 Share Posted July 21, 2020 3 hours ago, paulh84 said: Here's interesting perspective on how frustrating changes like this must be. This is just one day and one obstacle... Wow.. it is madness ! Sorry for the crew...hope they at least hear back on the test results in time to fly somewhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare hcat Posted July 21, 2020 #67 Share Posted July 21, 2020 3 hours ago, TeeRick said: Overall I agree with your post. I have similar thoughts. And deep frustrations as an American who followed all the lockdown and mask rules since March in a northeast state that followed all the rules since March too. Our cases have been in control and we have had phased re-opening pretty much like the European model. But we are now still threatened from surges happening in other states. It is disheartening. Are some younger Americans "blind" as you say or just don't seem to care? I think it is the latter. But it is not all Americans. We know we are a "laughing stock" to some in other countries, but what is there to laugh at really? The misery of some of us who did the right things but still are hopelessly stuck in this mess? The tragedy of seeing some of our friends and family members pass away before their time? That is not very funny to me anyway. Agree.. good post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare hcat Posted July 21, 2020 #68 Share Posted July 21, 2020 5 hours ago, hcat said: Wow.. it is madness ! Sorry for the crew...hope they at least hear back on the test results in time to fly somewhere! Seems similar to how Ft Laderdale handled the humanitarian need to get pasengers off ships in their port! Hope cruisers will remember ! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare lyndarra Posted July 22, 2020 #69 Share Posted July 22, 2020 16 hours ago, TeeRick said: Are some younger Americans "blind" as you say or just don't seem to care? Or could they be lacking effective leadership on most levels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare hcat Posted July 22, 2020 #70 Share Posted July 22, 2020 4 hours ago, lyndarra said: Or could they be lacking effective leadership on most levels? More likely poor upbringing, failure of parents and schools to instill good values.. Selfish people who are lacking a sense of personal responsibility....feeling entitled and invincible and not giving a care about their family and others in the community! Just like some cruisers who believe the rules do not apply to them! Sad! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickels Posted July 22, 2020 #71 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Absolutely, that's what we're doing in New York, ban people coming in from certain states; look at the US, and see which state has it under control! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doubt It Posted July 22, 2020 #72 Share Posted July 22, 2020 18 minutes ago, Swampbabe said: Sounds like our current leadership. Newsflash, Canada's virus rates are now climbing, it is not only the US. Culprits, now the focus is on the young people, they are the majority of new cases. In Canada, beaches are jammed, many parties in bars etc, young people not wearing masks - all the same activity references I see repeated over and over on CC and in American media. We are having many anti-mask demonstrations. There is now talk of walking back stage 3 openings in Ontario due to the surge in cases. It is said our surge is later than the US because Canada is more north and our summer behaviors are later than in Florida, Texas. Your leadership in the US, at the federal level, is the same as Canada's - an ATM machine for everyone. Our federal leadership is barely visible and our Parliament is suspended by our Prime Minister. Look around the globe more, you will find similar trends and actions as per God Bless America. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hvbaskey Posted July 22, 2020 #73 Share Posted July 22, 2020 53 minutes ago, Doubt It said: There is now talk of walking back stage 3 openings in Ontario due to the surge in cases. Ontario (from which I am a resident) was not ready for Phase 3, in my humble opinion. BC? Yes! Maritimes? Yes! Ontario & Quebec = NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeRick Posted July 22, 2020 #74 Share Posted July 22, 2020 6 hours ago, lyndarra said: Or could they be lacking effective leadership on most levels? I personally would like to believe that every adult individual regardless of age is totally responsible for themselves and their actions. No doubt leadership plays an important role for a lot of younger adult Americans just like us older folks. I think important to the ones who are connected and aware of others and of their impact on others. There are many many younger Americans who are in that category although all are getting included in the backlash against their generation unfortunately. But what type of leadership is most influential for the subset of young people in the US who go to bars without masks and hold coronavirus parties? I am not sure that they pay attention to or are influenced much by political or religious or educational leadership. They are just brought up to be selfish and self-centered I think. I have no other explanation for it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChucktownSteve Posted July 22, 2020 #75 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) On 7/20/2020 at 11:50 AM, Bo1953 said: To be sure, there are at least four (4) 'potential' commercial lines with ships that will fit the criteria of the referendum, e.g. Regent, Crystal, Viking Oceania and Silverseas... to name at least four (4)... bon voyage Bo, Azamara uses R class ships with under 700 passengers if fully booked. However they prefer European and other non U.S. ports. To the others that think U.S. residents being barred from the Bahamas is a wonderful anti American sentiment, too bad. It's irreverent. No cruise ships are sailing until AT LAST October. So what difference does closing it's borders now make anyway? A one day POC is more than enough for me. Edited July 22, 2020 by ChucktownSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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