Great Cruising Memories

[CGTNORMANDIE]

6 hours ago, Lowiepete said:

 

Now, I'm reminded of my English teacher at the first Secondary School I attended. No matter that she was diminutive, with a strong Irish accent, she ruled her classroom with a rod of iron. Almost literally; it was 15 inch long steel rule that would go off like a firecracker if it met your desk. Misbehave and it could reach your knuckles...

 

I have to write fondly of her because over 60 years later I thank her almost daily for the gift that she meticulously instilled in me.

 

Write a book, you say? Well, I can imagine Mrs. O'Keefe whispering in my ear: "Who is your target audience?" and once you have decided that, "How will you reach them?" CGT, I thank you for the compliment and I seem to receive similar suggestions almost weekly from Timeline visitors. All that goes through my mind when it's suggested is that I'm presenting, maintaining and hopefully improving a web site of over 1,000 pages on an almost daily basis. Is that really not my "book"?

 

In trying to answer the first question, what crosses my mind is who is going to want to spend actual money to hear a bunch of tales from an old salt? The second question is far more serious because to get there you need to get past a publisher. Is that person or outfit then going to take charge, appoint editors and so on until you barely recognise your own writing style? Having been around someone who did publish a book, it seemed that there was more than just one straitjacket.

 

You'll maybe have noticed that there is absolutely no advertising on the Timeline. That's done on purpose because the very last thing I want is to be controlled by another party thinking that because of their money, they can call the shots. Call me a control-freak all you like, but it is not going to happen! 

 

Rather than get a book published, I'd rather secure the Timeline into perpetuity, if only to help people researching former crew and passengers. Among the top arrivals to the site are the crew and pax transcript indexes. What seems to happen is that the crew/pax name is the hook and the details of their lifestyle at that time is there for the visitor to explore to their heart's content. Am I wrong, or just a bit obstinate? 😉

 

Regards,

Steve

Steve, “A journey of ten thousand miles starts with a single step.”  
 

All the best,

CGT

[Lowiepete]

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Although significantly different from Steve's experience, I can relate to something I experienced on my 2nd ship about 10 years later.

 

I started as a cadet in 1975, joining a cadet training ship for my first trip to sea. We had about 50 cadets, who were there for character building and learning basic seamanship the old way. It was the equivalent of 4 months of military boot camp.

 

Oh, my word! I was exhausted by the time I got to this point. Now, I get to understand a little why the Engineers and Catering Staff always found the Deck Officers to be so miserable. From conversations I've had with former Engineer Officers, it seemed that Deck Officers were fair game for all sorts of shenanigans. It was almost a sport and it seemed that they almost invited it with their aloofness.

 

If that was your induction, even 10 years later, when British ships' companies came from all over the globe rather than through the Shipping Federation, your leaders had well and truly buried their heads! Without a doubt, they should now bury their heads in absolute shame!

 

These things might have worked in the 19th Century, when rations were made of bread and weevils. My experience was of there being a lot of people surrounding me who do their bit, and you don't want to be the one who stands out as being work-shy. That was tall order enough! 

 

I started on the Cape Boats, in the laundry as a Callender Boy. Those rollers only ever stopped if the arhse-end of the ship was pitching too much, else we did our 56 hours a week and got paid a whole £16 a month for it. (In those days a 1xGBP would buy a good 3xUSD or 1USD  = 6shillings & 8pence or 34p in today's currency)

 

The value in the job was small praise for producing napkins ironed square and bed-sheets with few creases, oh, and enough of both prepared for the linen-keepers. It was a pig having to work for 4 days in that steamy place while the ship was alongside in Cape Town, as there was no shore leave. 2 days later we'd be at sea, do 4 hours of a Saturday morning and then have Sunday off. More often than not in languid seas and nothing to do, with almost 100% humidity and temps near the top of the scale to boot.

 

A lot of Deck Officers were "RD RNR" and it's probably the Royal Navy where that barbarism comes from. Whenever that argument arises, I just fall back on the thought that there were far more brave Merchant Seamen lost in horrific circumstances during both World Wars than those from the "Senior Service". If they're so hot on being honourable, then why don't they properly do the right thing? It's only because this had to be very firmly pointed out to the Royal British Legion that they recently began to give any recognition to the MN. Even now though, it's still only token. 

 

Regional differences exist all around the World and its coping with those that will make the difference between calm and upset. No-one should run away from the idea that ships are inured from goings-on ashore. I'll bet that current conditions are making this no exception today, only how it's overcome will never get back to us by making headline news. 

 

Regards,

Steve

[Heidi13]

In the late 70's, most of the traditional P&O crewing had not changed, or was just starting to change. My first ship was entirely British Officer and crew, the the SS Uganda was British Officers (Deck, Engine & Hotel) and India/Goa crew. This was the traditional BI crewing.

 

Most of the cargo and pax ships we had contact UK crew, so I have minimal experience with the UK Pool crews.

 

In the 79 to 81 time frame the crewing started changing and it certainly wasn't fun times.

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, Lowiepete said:

 

Oh, my word! I was exhausted by the time I got to this point. Now, I get to understand a little why the Engineers and Catering Staff always found the Deck Officers to be so miserable. From conversations I've had with former Engineer Officers, it seemed that Deck Officers were fair game for all sorts of shenanigans. It was almost a sport and it seemed that they almost invited it with their aloofness.

 

If that was your induction, even 10 years later, when British ships' companies came from all over the globe rather than through the Shipping Federation, your leaders had well and truly buried their heads! Without a doubt, they should now bury their heads in absolute shame!

 

These things might have worked in the 19th Century, when rations were made of bread and weevils. My experience was of there being a lot of people surrounding me who do their bit, and you don't want to be the one who stands out as being work-shy. That was tall order enough! 

 

I started on the Cape Boats, in the laundry as a Callender Boy. Those rollers only ever stopped if the arhse-end of the ship was pitching too much, else we did our 56 hours a week and got paid a whole £16 a month for it. (In those days a 1xGBP would buy a good 3xUSD or 1USD  = 6shillings & 8pence or 34p in today's currency)

 

The value in the job was small praise for producing napkins ironed square and bed-sheets with few creases, oh, and enough of both prepared for the linen-keepers. It was a pig having to work for 4 days in that steamy place while the ship was alongside in Cape Town, as there was no shore leave. 2 days later we'd be at sea, do 4 hours of a Saturday morning and then have Sunday off. More often than not in languid seas and nothing to do, with almost 100% humidity and temps near the top of the scale to boot.

 

A lot of Deck Officers were "RD RNR" and it's probably the Royal Navy where that barbarism comes from. Whenever that argument arises, I just fall back on the thought that there were far more brave Merchant Seamen lost in horrific circumstances during both World Wars than those from the "Senior Service". If they're so hot on being honourable, then why don't they properly do the right thing? It's only because this had to be very firmly pointed out to the Royal British Legion that they recently began to give any recognition to the MN. Even now though, it's still only token. 

 

Regional differences exist all around the World and its coping with those that will make the difference between calm and upset. No-one should run away from the idea that ships are inured from goings-on ashore. I'll bet that current conditions are making this no exception today, only how it's overcome will never get back to us by making headline news. 

 

Regards,

Steve

 

I have no regrets and much appreciated the training I received over today's new text book academics that try to learn the job in a classroom. Never did us any harm and certainly built the character required to survive my many years as a Captain.

 

For each of those challenging experiences, we had many exceptional ones.

 

Still remember going into Dubai anchorage, with hundreds of ships anchored off the port. The Captain headed for a cluster of other P&O ships, so we could trade films when at anchor for weeks/months.

 

We were steering towards another P&O ship, approaching our anchorage, when the Master requested 1/2 Astern. As Cadet, it was my job to respond, move the telegraph and visually confirm the engine responded. Well of course, this time the engine kicked astern and then died. I advised the Master engine not going astern. He calmly requested, "Stop Engine", so I put the telegraph to "Stop". The Master again requested, "1/2 Astern", with the same result.

 

The other ship was getting closer and my eyes were getting bigger, with the ticker racing. Not the Master, he again requested "Stop Engine" then calmly into the radio, requested the Chief Officer to, "Dredge to Stbd Anchor"

 

This slowed us down and also directed the ship's head away from the other ship, avoiding a collision. Once we got everything under control and the ship safely anchored, the Master sat me down and explained what he did. By putting the anchor on the bottom and dragging it, it caused a resultant force that both slowed the ship and pulled the ship's head in the direction of the anchor dropped.

 

In my almost 28 years as a Ro/Pax Master, I had to use this manoeuvre 4 or 5 times, always remembering back to the day I watched it and the Master's explanation. Every Captain I trained was also taught and had to demonstrate this manoeuvre.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

30 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

I have no regrets and much appreciated the training I received over today's new text book academics that try to learn the job in a classroom. Never did us any harm and certainly built the character required to survive my many years as a Captain.

 

For each of those challenging experiences, we had many exceptional ones.

 

Still remember going into Dubai anchorage, with hundreds of ships anchored off the port. The Captain headed for a cluster of other P&O ships, so we could trade films when at anchor for weeks/months.

 

We were steering towards another P&O ship, approaching our anchorage, when the Master requested 1/2 Astern. As Cadet, it was my job to respond, move the telegraph and visually confirm the engine responded. Well of course, this time the engine kicked astern and then died. I advised the Master engine not going astern. He calmly requested, "Stop Engine", so I put the telegraph to "Stop". The Master again requested, "1/2 Astern", with the same result.

 

The other ship was getting closer and my eyes were getting bigger, with the ticker racing. Not the Master, he again requested "Stop Engine" then calmly into the radio, requested the Chief Officer to, "Dredge to Stbd Anchor"

 

This slowed us down and also directed the ship's head away from the other ship, avoiding a collision. Once we got everything under control and the ship safely anchored, the Master sat me down and explained what he did. By putting the anchor on the bottom and dragging it, it caused a resultant force that both slowed the ship and pulled the ship's head in the direction of the anchor dropped.

 

In my almost 28 years as a Ro/Pax Master, I had to use this manoeuvre 4 or 5 times, always remembering back to the day I watched it and the Master's explanation. Every Captain I trained was also taught and had to demonstrate this manoeuvre.

This is great!  Both Steve and Heidi are giving us pearls...thanks so much.  

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Questions for Lowiepete...

Hi Steve,  I am looking at a Caronia Gala Dinner Menu and was hoping you could explain a few of the fabulous items.  
 

Oeufs a la Russe...Russian eggs.  Were they stuffed eggs dotted with caviar?

 

Baked Spaghetti Caruso:  Was this spaghetti in a red sauce with chicken livers?

 

Can you tell us about any of the Savories?

 

Coup Eugenie:  Was this an ice cream dish of some sort?  
 

Best regards,

 

CGT

 

[Lowiepete]

1 hour ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Questions for Lowiepete...

Hi Steve,  I am looking at a Caronia Gala Dinner Menu and was hoping you could explain a few of the fabulous items.  
 

1) Oeufs a la Russe...Russian eggs.  Were they stuffed eggs dotted with caviar?

 

2) Baked Spaghetti Caruso:  Was this spaghetti in a red sauce with chicken livers?

 

Can you tell us about any of the Savories?

 

3) Coup Eugenie:  Was this an ice cream dish of some sort?  
 

Best regards,

 

CGT

 

 

1) Sauce Remoulade with added fine-grated horseradish, thickened, chilled then single frilly tower piped over yolks of split hard-boiled eggs

2) Yes, Primitivo wine sauce + chopped field mushrooms, Italian tomatoes, tiny whole onions (name escapes me) and roughly crushed garlic

3) Vanilla ice-cream on top of pieces of candied chestnuts in the coupe. Piped over flat with Chantilly Cream in Catherine Wheel style from centre, then sprinkled with crystallised violets

 

Savouries, well they were on the menu, but very rarely ordered! They usually involved melted hard cheeses with pickle style accompaniments for umami, or toast + pastes from olives, gherkins and/or capers,  with chopped anchovies for salty. By the time you'd made your way through HorsD' / Soup, Fish, Entree, Main Course and Dessert, it was time to relax with an Irish Coffee . Just no room...  😉 

 

Here's a selection of Speciality Dishes, if ever you're stuck for ideas...

 

Caronia Chef Specialities

 

Regards,

Steve

 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Lowiepete
added link to yummies

[CGTNORMANDIE]

2 minutes ago, Lowiepete said:

 

1) Sauce Remoulade with added fine-grated horseradish, thickened, chilled then single frilly tower piped over yolks of split hard-boiled eggs

2) Yes, Primitivo wine sauce + chopped field mushrooms, Italian tomatoes, tiny whole onions (name escapes me) and roughly crushed garlic

3) Vanilla ice-cream on top of pieces of candied chestnuts in the coupe. Piped over flat with Chantilly Cream in Catherine Wheel style from centre, then sprinkled with crystallised violets

 

Savouries, well they were on the menu, but very rarely ordered! They usually involved melted hard cheeses with pickle style accompaniments for umami, or toast + pastes from olives, gherkins and/or capers,  with chopped anchovies for salty. By the time you'd made your way through HorsD' / Soup, Fish, Entree, Main Course and Dessert, it was time to relax with an Irish Coffee . Just no room...  😉 

 

Regards,

Steve

WOW...now that’s what I call fine dining...and those were just a few of the menu items.  Here is the rest of the menu.

 

Hors d’oeuvres:  tomato, grapefruit and pineapple juice...citrus fruit cup, jumbo prawn cocktail, smoked salmon, salad opera, sardines, smoked sturgeon, foie gras en croute, oeufs a la russe, cauliflower a la grecque and gendarmes.

Soups: Clear Turtle with Sherry, Creme de Mais Washington, Cold Creme Vichyssoise.

 

Fish: Poached fresh Scotch Salmon cucumber Sauce Hollandaise, Fried Fillet of Dover Sole w/Sauce Gribiche.

 

Farinaceous: Baked Spaghetti Caruso

 

Vegetarian: Vegetarian Platter with Parmesan Cheese

 

Entrees:  Baby Chicken a la Belle Caronia.  Baked Clove Smithfield Ham with sweet potatoes and peaches.

 

Continental Specialty:  Paella a la Valenciana, chicken, pork and sausage sautéed in oil with pilaf of rice with saffron, chicken stock, with lobster, shrimp and mussels with aromatics.  
 

Roast: Roast Lamb and Shoulder of Lamb with mint sauce and red current jelly.

 

Sorbet:  Champagne Sorbet

 

Grills: Filet Mignon Duroc and Escalopes of Sweet Breads Princesse 

 

Releve: Roast Vermont Turkey, Chestnut Farcie with Cranberry Sauce.

 

Vegetables:  Green Peas, Corn Sautéed with Paprika, and Fried Aubergines.

 

Potatoes: Boiled New, Chateau, Creme Puréed and San Remo.

 

Cold Buffet:  Roast Ribs and Sirloin of Beef, Galantine of Chicken, Roast Lamb. Rolled Ox Tongue, Home Made Brawn and London Pressed Beef.

 

Salads: Hearts of Lettuce, Sliced Tomatoes, Fresh Fruit, Jack o’lantern, Mixed Bowl and Beetroot.

Dressings:  French,  Mayonnaise,  Vinaigrette and Roquefort.

 

Sweets: English Plum Pudding and Hard Sauce, Coupe Eugenie and Sherry Fruit Trifle. and Petite Fours.

 

Ice Cream:  Vanilla, Coffee, Banana and Raspberry with hot Butterscotch Sauce.

 

Savorie: Welsh Rarebit

 

Fresh Fruit:  various

 

Tea or Coffee hot or iced.

 

Now that’s a real menu!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lowiepete]

23 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Now that’s a real menu!!

 

Well, yeah and tomorrow's will be almost completely different... (say's he, with a shrug)

 

A commentator on a 1960s short about sea travel describes this beautifully. "Whenever you step aboard ship, you'll feel like a VIP, because you're seen as a very important person. It's part of the 'service'"

 

No airs, no graces, just day to day life on board your floating hotel. Does "Getting there being half the fun" hold true today? If not, you're being short-changed.

 

Regards,

Steve

 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Lowiepete

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Steve, you are right...the menus were different every day.  The Caronia menus are astounding!  The fact that the chefs and stewards met these challenges with so many courses every day is even more astounding.  

[rkacruiser]

20 minutes ago, Lowiepete said:

Does "Getting there being half the fun" hold true today? 

 

Not in the same sense as it once did.  But, choosing one's cruise line, ship, and the cruise itself, one can get the 21st Century version of "what once was".  

 

Sometimes the worst part of getting to the point of "getting there to experience half the fun" is the travel miseries one has to endure to get to the ship!

 

35 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

WOW...now that’s what I call fine dining.

 

Reading those menus from bygone years of cruising/crossings, then comparing them to the menus now offered--even on QM2, at least in the Britannia Restaurant or when I sailed on her in the Todd English Restaurant--pathetic.

 

I am one who was raised to appreciate Sweetbreads.  Did anyone else notice the options on the menu for this delicious food?   

[Lowiepete]

There were a few notables on that menu. The Smithfield Ham - a dry-salt cure smoked ham, studded with cloves and baked - the ham soft and sweet accompaniments were perfect!

 

Gendarmes were a cooked german / alsation sausage cubed with equal sized cubes of firm to hard brouere cheese.

 

Home made brawn - lots of different meat "scraps" in what was clearly a consomme made on board, slightly reduced and chilled to a jelly. You didn't so much chew it as savour it as it melted and warmed on your tongue. No hurry, Murray!

 

Sauce Duroc to go with your Filet Mignon - a white wine sauce, not too thick, with shallots and mushrooms, finished with a drop of Cognac.

 

The sherry fruit trifle was to die for - probably down to the choice of sherry because I can't match it 😕

 

Welsh Rarebit --- melted to bubbling, strong cheddar cheese over sweet pickle on sour dough toast, cut into triangles _after_ melting...

 

Are you feeling ravenous yet? 😄

 

Regards,

Steve

[rkacruiser]

6 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

The fact that the chefs and stewards met these challenges with so many courses every day is even more astounding.  

 

As I have experienced tours through the galleys on a variety of ships, I have wondered about that as well.  I would think these crew members would be challenged on a daily basis to produce the variety of foods on the menus of today's vessels.  How were so many items on such extensive menus of the past able to be produced?  

[rkacruiser]

4 minutes ago, Lowiepete said:

Home made brawn - lots of different meat "scraps" in what was clearly a consomme made on board, slightly reduced and chilled to a jelly. You didn't so much chew it as savour it as it melted and warmed on your tongue. No hurry, Murray!

 

Once had a jelled consomme; not sure of its ingredients, but I do remember allowing the food to "melt" in my mouth.  

[Lowiepete]

9 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Steve, you are right...the menus were different every day.  The Caronia menus are astounding!  The fact that the chefs and stewards met these challenges with so many courses every day is even more astounding.  

 

Astounding? We took it in our stride, with a modicum of pride. We knew what we were serving and the standards needed to match it. What we _didn't_ know was how clued-up our diners were; at least to begin with. Most often it would the brass who took the orders, but we had to be ready if not.

 

Regards,

Steve

[Lowiepete]

4 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

How were so many items on such extensive menus of the past able to be produced?  

 

...by having a crew to passenger ratio of 1:1 or better

...by having a Chef who knew how to provision his stores

...by having access to dedicated pantries, steaming, baking, grilling and roasting facilities, although a lot cooking on board Caronia was done with electric cookers. From soup cook to roast cook, those guys loved the preparation of their supplies!  

 

If you have a look at the crew lists, there would often be as many Catering Dept crew as passengers. If you were lucky enough to do a transat to New York ahead of a cruise when the ship was quiet, you'd dine 1st class for a Cabin Class fare. There was just no point in doing otherwise.

 

Regards,

Steve

[Lowiepete]

If you've ever spoken about a "shipping order" in jest, have you ever seen a real one?

 

Select "A Shipping Order" from the menu...

 

Regards,

Steve

[CGTNORMANDIE]

38 minutes ago, Lowiepete said:

If you've ever spoken about a "shipping order" in jest, have you ever seen a real one?

 

Select "A Shipping Order" from the menu...

 

Regards,

Steve

Very impressive list of comestibles!  

[CGTNORMANDIE]

On 2/22/2021 at 5:52 PM, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Very impressive list of comestibles!  

Question for Lowiepete:  I see the shipping order calls for big amounts in GB but small amounts if buying in America...1500 lbs of beans vs 250 lbs if ordered in America.  It looks like Cunard was spending their money in the UK.  Did this have to do with boosting the British economy?  

[Lowiepete]

11 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Did this have to do with boosting the British economy?  

 

Probably not. From what I've been able to gather, it's a bit like modern day "click & collect". The order will be submitted to stores / buyers ashore and if they can arrange supply, they do. If not, the order gets transferred to the NYC buying office, who would arrange for local chandlers to meet the ship and supply direct. Cunard had agents all over the World, so the provisioning process would be straightforward.

 

The order we're discussing was ahead of a fortnight's trip to NYC via the Bahamas, with an ever dwindling number of passengers aboard after leaving each port. The ship would nevertheless be provisioned to the hilt ahead of a World Cruise, but then local chandlers would be called upon for supplies of fresh fish, fruit etc. No point in buying bananas in the States if at the first port of call they could supply them direct from the plantation.

 

Back in those days I'd never seen an avocado pear. Today, I have the utmost respect for the guys on board ship, both in the stores and the fruit pantryman. This especially to have any number of this very difficult fruit ready and ripe for a particular meal. In a country where they're only imported, from anywhere like Israel, Florida or California, they can be as hard as bullets one day and almost rotten the next. The biggest risk to them being if they've got too close to being frozen in the aircraft. Either way, it's a short "ready to eat" window.

 

Whether the onward provisioning of the ship was controlled through Liverpool or New York, I don't know. What I do know is that boxes of fresh fish would be brought aboard in Le Havre or Cherbourg, just hours from the end of a transat or a month-long cruise. You could scratch your head and ask why. This was done, even though there would be plenty enough frozen fish on board to cope with both the next Luncheon and an unplanned Dinner.

 

What mattered to the Chef was the quality of the victuals brought aboard! Insisting upon receiving the best produce available would give him the key to incentivising every cook in his galley to produce their very tastiest dishes. Everyone rose to that challenge with some pride. There were no "cookie-cutting" exercises! Service "a la Russe" was yet to raise its ugly head.

 

All you had to do (as a waiter) was ask a cook about a particular sauce, for example, and you'd see a face light-up because of your interest. The more you did this, the better your own reputation would be across the galley. Then, if you heard someone at your table express a "desire", you'd know who to go to who could fulfil it. Now imagine the pleasure upon that diner's face.

 

The undefined "glue" that held everything together began in "the other engine room". A shipping order is not simply a great big food list. It has intent!

 

Regards,

Steve

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Lowiepete
readability

[CGTNORMANDIE]

43 minutes ago, Lowiepete said:

 

Probably not. From what I've been able to gather, it's a bit like modern day "click & collect". The order will be submitted to stores / buyers ashore and if they can arrange supply, they do. If not, the order gets transferred to the NYC buying office, who would arrange for local chandlers to meet the ship and supply direct. Cunard had agents all over the World, so the provisioning process would be straightforward.

 

The order we're discussing was ahead of a fortnight's trip to NYC via the Bahamas, with an ever dwindling number of passengers aboard after leaving each port. The ship would nevertheless be provisioned to the hilt ahead of a World Cruise, but then local chandlers would be called upon for supplies of fresh fish, fruit etc. No point in buying bananas in the States if at the first port of call they could supply them direct from the plantation.

 

Back in those days I'd never seen an avocado pear. Today, I have the utmost respect for the guys on board ship, both in the stores and the fruit pantryman. This especially to have any number of this very difficult fruit ready and ripe for a particular meal. In a country where they're only imported, from anywhere like Israel, Florida or California, they can be as hard as bullets one day and almost rotten the next. The biggest risk to them being if they've got too close to being frozen in the aircraft. Either way, it's a short "ready to eat" window.

 

Whether the onward provisioning of the ship was controlled through Liverpool or New York, I don't know. What I do know is that boxes of fresh fish would be brought aboard in Le Havre or Cherbourg, just hours from the end of a transat or a month-long cruise. You could scratch your head and ask why. This was done, even though there would be plenty enough frozen fish on board to cope with both the next Luncheon and an unplanned Dinner.

 

What mattered to the Chef was the quality of the victuals brought aboard! Insisting upon receiving the best produce available would give him the key to incentivising every cook in his galley to produce their very tastiest dishes. Everyone rose to that challenge with some pride. There were no "cookie-cutting" exercises! Service "a la Russe" was yet to raise its ugly head.

 

All you had to do (as a waiter) was ask a cook about a particular sauce, for example, and you'd see a face light-up because of your interest. The more you did this, the better your own reputation would be across the galley. Then, if you heard someone at your table express a "desire", you'd know who to go to who could fulfil it. Now imagine the pleasure upon that diner's face.

 

The undefined "glue" that held everything together began in "the other engine room". A shipping order is not simply a great big food list. It has intent!

 

Regards,

Steve

 

 

 

Thank you Steve.  The more questions you answer the more insight we gain!

 

 

[shipgeeks]

I've been reminded of my first ocean voyage, in 1969, on a 12-passenger freighter, NYC to Sydney, 42 days.  More than four weeks of that time were spent crossing the Pacific, without any ports at all between Panama and Australia.  How did they manage to provide all the fresh (apparently) food?

Although the cuisine was not at all like Caronia's, we did have the options of whatever we wanted for breakfast, a set lunch menu, and two options for dinner, chosen during lunch.  There was always fresh milk (European?), fresh fruit and vegetables, eggs, cheese, yogurt (perhaps made onboard from their own culture?).

No seafood that I can recall.  No evidence of a cow or chickens aboard.

I was, and still am, impressed.

[Lowiepete]

15 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

How did they manage to provide all the fresh (apparently) food?

 

My best guess would be vacuum packing. Milk came aboard in boxes, within which was in a plastic container. The tap was one-way, so no air was let in as you opened it. The wrapper shrank in its box. I would imagine that vacuum packing matched with controlled temperature storage would keep things fresh for quite a while. Keep out the oxygen and very little degradation can take place. Add CO2 into the mix, a method still widely used today (think prepared salad leaves) and you can extend the freshness even longer.

 

With being confined to barracks all this while, I've been using my vacuum machine regularly. When there's a meal that can be frozen, instead of packing it into an airtight container as I used to, where it will soon form an ice cap, in a vacuum bag its condition remains perfect for about 3 times longer. I buy my meat from a commercial butcher, (who usually supplies restaurants) simply because most of it comes vacuum packed in strong bags and it can stay in my freezer for a year or more without a problem.

 

So, no great mysteries. Provisioning warships has probably brought about the most research and innovation with food preservation for centuries. All they did aboard Caronia was almost turn into an art form. However, good quality food has the best chances of keeping its flavour and freshness. So, it's more "needs must" rather than one-upmanship.

 

Regards,

Steve

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, shipgeeks said:

I've been reminded of my first ocean voyage, in 1969, on a 12-passenger freighter, NYC to Sydney, 42 days.  More than four weeks of that time were spent crossing the Pacific, without any ports at all between Panama and Australia.  How did they manage to provide all the fresh (apparently) food?

Although the cuisine was not at all like Caronia's, we did have the options of whatever we wanted for breakfast, a set lunch menu, and two options for dinner, chosen during lunch.  There was always fresh milk (European?), fresh fruit and vegetables, eggs, cheese, yogurt (perhaps made onboard from their own culture?).

No seafood that I can recall.  No evidence of a cow or chickens aboard.

I was, and still am, impressed.

 

Further to Steve's response. A key component of maintaining freshness and preventing fruit from ripening is maintaining correct storage temperatures.

 

On my first ship, we brought about 500K frozen lambs back to UK from NZ, which were in the lower holds and tween decks. The tween decks also had chiller space, so we had many hundreds of 1/2 sides of fresh beef, that were aboard for about 6 weeks. The frozen cargo was kept below - 20C, while the beef was held at about 0.5 C, so not frozen, but well chilled.

 

Fruit is also temperature sensitive, with bananas being the most critical (can't remember the exact teperature now, but it was +/- 0.5C). Once they are removed from the storage temperature, they commence ripening. With citrus, you also require good ventilation, as they give off CO2, which enhances ripening. By removing the CO2 you can slow the ripening process. You will notice that most boxes of fruit have holes to assist the ventilation.

 

On deep sea passages, we only had fresh milk for about 7 or 8 days, then switched to UHT milk. 

[CGTNORMANDIE]

7 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Further to Steve's response. A key component of maintaining freshness and preventing fruit from ripening is maintaining correct storage temperatures.

 

On my first ship, we brought about 500K frozen lambs back to UK from NZ, which were in the lower holds and tween decks. The tween decks also had chiller space, so we had many hundreds of 1/2 sides of fresh beef, that were aboard for about 6 weeks. The frozen cargo was kept below - 20C, while the beef was held at about 0.5 C, so not frozen, but well chilled.

 

Fruit is also temperature sensitive, with bananas being the most critical (can't remember the exact teperature now, but it was +/- 0.5C). Once they are removed from the storage temperature, they commence ripening. With citrus, you also require good ventilation, as they give off CO2, which enhances ripening. By removing the CO2 you can slow the ripening process. You will notice that most boxes of fruit have holes to assist the ventilation.

 

On deep sea passages, we only had fresh milk for about 7 or 8 days, then switched to UHT milk. 

So true...that temperature is the whole ball game where fruit is concerned.  Once upon a time I had a store where we sold fruit baskets and baked goods.  I could place the bananas in the warmer section of the walk-in cooler and they would slowly ripen in the cooler 45* temp.  They would be good for a week.  The new ships actually have whole walk-in rooms set at varying degrees in order to ripen the fruit on schedule as needed.  The most difficult to ripen are the cantaloupe and melons in general...a real pain.  My hat is tipped to the galley crew onboard ship who can produce a really good fruit salad.