Great Cruising Memories

[shipgeeks]

Norway was one of our earliest cruises.  Late one night, wandering through the ship (so many beautiful spaces to see!), we heard piano music.  Walked into the empty dining room, and found a waiter playing, after all the tables had been set up for breakfast service.  A nice moment.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

6 hours ago, shipgeeks said:

Norway was one of our earliest cruises.  Late one night, wandering through the ship (so many beautiful spaces to see!), we heard piano music.  Walked into the empty dining room, and found a waiter playing, after all the tables had been set up for breakfast service.  A nice moment.

Thank you SG.  The SS France/Norway was a very special ship.  I had the good fortune to have sailed on her as both the France and Norway.  Both dining rooms were beautiful.  How nice that you have a treasured memory of that great ship.  

[rkacruiser]

22 hours ago, HowardK said:

I was relieved when I looked at my pillow and saw I slept on the chocolate mint the steward had left for me the night before!

 

You are not the first that has had that experience.  

 

Thanks for sharing your memories.  Any others would be most welcome.  

[Lowiepete]

Not So Nostalgic Memories

 

While we can bask in the cosiness of warm nostalgia, can I now ask an awkward question? I've been busy trying to catch up with transcribing passenger lists from the 1950s and there's one very marked description that always raises my hackles. If I'm British, French or any nationality other than "American", my "status" back then was described on every official document as being "alien".

 

The indignity doesn't end there! If I actually want to step foot on American soil, having arrived aboard a British merchant ship, I need to provide Immigration officials with finger-print specimens before they will issue me with an identification card. This card also applies to every other territory claimed as theirs by the Americans, including such islands as Pago Pago!

 

I resented it back then, but feel even more aggravated about it now as I've been in the throes of transcribing these lists where the term comes up often. The idea that a British Merchant Seaman needed to be treated as a potential common criminal totally wrankles with me, considering that we were visiting what's described as the "Land of the Free"!

 

No matter that it was only recently (in the 1960s) that British merchant ships acted as US armed-forces personnel carriers, transporting them in almost complete safety, considering how large and important they were as targets for the U-Boats. What's overlooked are the severe penalties imposed by the British authorities for any of our own misbehaviour, starting, and not necessarily ending, with the a ship's Captain!

 

There was nowhere else in the whole World that demanded such draconian measures, even in Communist countries, or the Far East! So, in America, are people from foreign lands still labelled as "Aliens" - that is "beings from an unknown planet, or being "against" anything, (other than language misuse 🙂 )? If anyone believes that this is a "political" question, perish the thought! It's about use of what's intended as a common language. Why not use the correct, and most descriptive, word - Foreigner?

 

Back in those days I loved being ashore in US ports. Getting harassed by girls who'd overheard our English accents and being asked if we'd seen the Queen or met the Beatles was always something quite special. Getting stopped at gun-point, by mistake, wasn't quite as pleasant, but somehow, whilst ashore, you would never lose sight of how important that stupid little ID card was!

 

Regards,

Steve

 

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Lowiepete

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Hi Lowiepete,

 

There were a lot of draconian measures taken during and after WW II.  I believe you ran into some of them in the early 60’s.  My my my how things have changed.  Now all you have to do is walk in and you qualify for all sorts of benefits and goodies.  Finger prints are about the last thing you’ll need.

[shipgeeks]

Lowiepete,  I'm sorry to read that you found the word 'alien' a negative.

I'm American, but lived in Australia for 12 years.  I went as an assisted migrant, and my status was Resident Alien.  I had to report every two years, to confirm that I was still living there.  I paid taxes but could not vote.  "Alien" was just another word, as was "Yank".  To me it just meant that I was not a citizen of that country.

[Heidi13]

The Immigration requirements in the US did improve by the 70's, as I never had to have finger prints or photo taken. I don't recall even having a visitor's Visa. When I moved to Canada, we could pop over the border with only our Driver's Licence. On one on my PM shifts, I would always head over at one crossing, fill up with petrol (gas) and head home through another crossing.

 

However, after 9/11 everything reverted back to as you describe. I initially only had a UK passport and they took my finger prints & photo, but DW, with a Canadian Passport was welcomed with open arms. I mentioned to the Agent that UK fought in the Gulf with the US, while Canada abstained, but I get treated like a criminal.

 

Still the same today. Only US & Canadian citizens can enter without finger prints & photo being taken, with an appropriate Visa/ETA also required. Not sure if Mexico has the same exceptions as Canadians.

 

When we did the World Cruise on an Australia based ship, with only a handful of US & Canadians, it took about 6 hrs for them to complete the Immigration process, as over 2,000 pax had to be processed individually.

[Lowiepete]

The range of responses is interesting. It's the treatment, as if I was a potential criminal, that to me still gets associated with that word. Never before, nor since, have I been subjected to a stranger applying ink to my fingers and with very little finesse, pressing them very firmly within this frame, a box for each digit and thumb. Getting the stuff off wasn't a breeze either!

 

The Immigration forms have interesting groupings. The typed headings can range from "Quota", "Visitor", "Diplomatic" to "Govt. Official" - all of them set as required categories on standard sheets with "Alien" as suffix on the heading. Also typed, below the 25 lines of boxes, would be totals of the page like "1 x USC / 12 x Aliens". Having now transcribed so many lists, I can now empathise with the Junior Pursers, working in the Staff Purser's office for Cabin Class, who'd be delegated to produce these lists in the name of the Purser / Staff Purser. I'll wager that on a Transat in August, they hated the task!

 

I need to emphasise that this was at the height of the Cold War. In places like Gdynia, Odessa and Yalta, the immigration process was to join a short line, hold your Seaman's Pass open as you approach the first bloke, he'd glance at your photo, more often than not say "Welcome" in English before indicating you toward someone ready to stamp your book. In the short space between them was a notice to open your book to find the next blank port stamp. It was simple, quick, done with a smile and most of all it treated us as the peaceful gentlefolk we were.

 

In Japan, all we had to do was show the cover of our little red book to the MAA on our way out of the ship. The working alleyway would be turned into a wonderful bazaar, with the local traders giving us the opportunity to buy the most interesting items you could think of. We even had touts come round the cabins offering to hand-make shoes and clothing. In New York, there was only the one person allowed to do this, and he only offered a bespoke laundry service.

 

Thankfully, I don't have many lists left to transcribe, though I am on the lookout for a copy of the PaxList for the 1963 Great World Cruise...

 

Regards,

Steve

[Heidi13]

As most of you know, my experience is British tonnage for the 70's, particularly the P&O ships.

 

The SS Canberra website has recently been updated, so thought I would pass on the link if anyone is interested.

 

http://www.sscanberra.com/index.html

 

[CGTNORMANDIE]

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

As most of you know, my experience is British tonnage for the 70's, particularly the P&O ships.

 

The SS Canberra website has recently been updated, so thought I would pass on the link if anyone is interested.

 

http://www.sscanberra.com/index.html

 

Thank you Heidi.  I came really close to sailing Transatlantic from NY on Canberra.  She was a great ship.

 

 

[rkacruiser]

Does anyone of us need to be reminded of the events of April 14-15, 1912 tonight?  

 

May the souls of those who lost their lives rest in peace.  

 

What they endured helped to make sailing on the seven seas safer for the rest of us.  

[CGTNORMANDIE]

58 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

Does anyone of us need to be reminded of the events of April 14-15, 1912 tonight?  

 

May the souls of those who lost their lives rest in peace.  

 

What they endured helped to make sailing on the seven seas safer for the rest of us.  

Definitely “a night to remember”...109 years ago.  

[Heidi13]

22 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

Does anyone of us need to be reminded of the events of April 14-15, 1912 tonight?  

 

May the souls of those who lost their lives rest in peace.  

 

What they endured helped to make sailing on the seven seas safer for the rest of us.  

 

So true, a couple of the key enhancements were raising the vertical height of the transverse W/T bulkheads up to the Uppermost Continuous Deck and basing survival craft on the compliment and not Gross Tonnage.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

So true, a couple of the key enhancements were raising the vertical height of the transverse W/T bulkheads up to the Uppermost Continuous Deck and basing survival craft on the compliment and not Gross Tonnage.

They eventually got rid of those awful Llewelyn davits that proved so unmanageable.  Those same davits came back to haunt Cunard when the Lusitania sank in fifteen minutes.  

[Heidi13]

20 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

They eventually got rid of those awful Llewelyn davits that proved so unmanageable.  Those same davits came back to haunt Cunard when the Lusitania sank in fifteen minutes.  

 

That is a davit type I have not heard of before.

 

From memory, I thought the Titanic was equiped with a new Quadrant Davit that originated in Sweden. Believe they were designed so each davit could launch multiple boats, but only a couple of L/Boat stations had multiple boats.

[rkacruiser]

16 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Believe they were designed so each davit could launch multiple boats, but only a couple of L/Boat stations had multiple boats.

 

I know almost nothing about davits, but I do recall reading that at least a couple of the collapsible lifeboats were davit launched after the original lifeboat at that davit had been lowered.  Maybe my memory is incorrect?  

[CGTNORMANDIE]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I know almost nothing about davits, but I do recall reading that at least a couple of the collapsible lifeboats were davit launched after the original lifeboat at that davit had been lowered.  Maybe my memory is incorrect?  

Three of the four collapsibles were launched over the side just before the Titanic sank.  Two went over the side without davits.  Only one was launched from the davits. That was the one that Bruce Ismay boarded.  One landed upside down and about a dozen men, out of 40 who tried, made it by standing on the overturned collapsible.  One collapsible was washed away with about 40 occupants who were drowned.  A collapsible was found a week? later with three? frozen bodies which was probably the boat that was washed away. They were never able to launch the fourth collapsible...all this from memory so there are probably some inaccuracies.  

Edited April 16, 2021 by CGTNORMANDIE

[rkacruiser]

22 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Three of the four collapsibles were launched over the side just before the Titanic sank.  Two went over the side without davits.  Only one was launched from the davits. That was the one that Bruce Ismay boarded.  One landed upside down and about a dozen men, out of 40 who tried, made it by standing on the overturned collapsible.  One collapsible was washed away with about 40 occupants who were drowned.  A collapsible was found a week? later with three? frozen bodies which was probably the boat that was washed away. They were never able to launch the fourth collapsible...all this from memory so there are probably some inaccuracies.  

 

Sounds correct to me.  I thought that at least one of those collapsible boats were launched from a davit.  

[Lowiepete]

Hello Folks,

 

Oh wow! Have you guys gone seriously off-topic, or what?

   

As you're going back as far as 1912, it's quite apposite that a photograph of a former 2nd Baker, taken in 1953 after 41 years service, has recently turned up. Why is it apposite?

 

Well, James Douglas Kennedy first went to sea in 1912, I assume with Cunard, so the question arises: Could he have been away on his first trip aboard the first RMS Caronia when she was called to aid RMS Titanic? What's also remarkable is that he served through both Great Wars, so with this coming to light from a period magazine photograph, he was also a very brave man! Research will continue...

 

Regards,

Steve

 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Lowiepete

[CGTNORMANDIE]

1 hour ago, Lowiepete said:

Hello Folks,

 

Oh wow! Have you guys gone seriously off-topic, or what?

   

As you're going back as far as 1912, it's quite apposite that a photograph of a former 2nd Baker, taken in 1953 after 41 years service, has recently turned up. Why is it apposite?

 

Well, James Douglas Kennedy first went to sea in 1912, I assume with Cunard, so the question arises: Could he have been away on his first trip aboard the first RMS Caronia when she was called to aid RMS Titanic? What's also remarkable is that he served through both Great Wars, so with this coming to light from a period magazine photograph, he was also a very brave man! Research will continue...

 

Regards,

Steve

 

 

Great story Steve and very proper and fitting for this thread and forum.  WOW...too bad nobody did an in-depth interview with JD Kennedy after he retired.  He had a front row seat in maritime history.  Thanks for sharing.

[Lowiepete]

7 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

...too bad nobody did an in-depth interview with JD Kennedy after he retired.

Note: My reply is more for historical accuracy, than as criticism of CGT

You'd be lucky! People of that generation would simply not engage with you on the topic. Whenever I asked my grandad he'd tell me to go and ask my grandma, who in turn would, almost desperately, shrug her shoulders.

 

There's a possibility that the way merchantmen were for many years treated with less respect than their armed counterparts, from the government downwards, could also have had a part to play. Considering the dangers they had faced, their stoicism would probably effectively hide any rancour and maybe even delay their recognition to boot. 

 

As a simple example, it took many decades for the Royal British Legion to allow the MN any representation at the two memorial ceremonies attended by HM The Queen in the UK. Right to the end, it took quite a sustained fight! 

 

The upshot being some embarrassment at local cenotaphs on Remembrance Sundays, when military contemporaries could show off their medals while wearing their "demob suits". How to avoid being asked the obvious demeaning question: Wear his blue-checks and baker's hat?

 

About the only time when merchantmen were treated on a par and as quickly was after the Falklands conflict, but maybe that had more to do with a certain Margaret Thatcher seeking re-election... 

 

Regards,

Steve

[rkacruiser]

8 hours ago, Lowiepete said:

Research will continue...

 

I have never seen such a list of all of the various job classifications that exist on a ship.  On a couple of cruises, I tried to obtain an organizational chart of the organization of the various departments simply because I had an interest in that.  Never was successful.  

 

The job of "Trimmer":  I have never really understood what those people did.  I'd appreciate learning this.  

 

7 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

too bad nobody did an in-depth interview with JD Kennedy after he retired.  He had a front row seat in maritime history.  Thanks for sharing.

 

I share your thought.  So much history is lost because no one thought to share their experiences.  Extraordinary ones or not, they are part of the cultural fabric of the time that cannot ever be replaced.  

[Lowiepete]

2 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

The job of "Trimmer":  I have never really understood what those people did.  I'd appreciate learning this. 

 

On an oil-fired steam ship, the trimmer keeps the fires supplied with fuel. The term is carried over from the coal-fired ships where trimmers had the job of seeing that the coal in the bunkers was properly distributed to keep the vessel on an even keel. (Hence "trimmers") 

 

Regards,

Steve

[shipgeeks]

I suspect that all of us reading this no longer have parents to ask questions of.  My dad wrote a lot about his life; my mother did not.  I wish I could go back and ask more about her life pre-children.  I know that she was a ballet dancer, as I've seen a couple of photos, and she ran a dancing school when I was little.  That's about all I know.

Now, back to maritime matters......

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Way back in the 1980’s I was fortunate enough to sit with a merchant seaman who had made the Russian run to Murmansk three times!  His stories were hair raising but fascinating at the same time.  It was a miracle he was still alive.  The Murmansk run was the most dangerous for the American merchant seamen.  They never received proper recognition or reward until years later.