Great Cruising Memories

[shipgeeks]

I think of cruise breakfasts every time I cut a new cantaloupe.  On the ship they are almost always "just right"; here, not always.  And they are labor intensive.

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, shipgeeks said:

I think of cruise breakfasts every time I cut a new cantaloupe.  On the ship they are almost always "just right"; here, not always.  And they are labor intensive.

 

I would add to your observation what I have noticed on long voyages about grapefruit.  When the embarked Florida grapefruit had been consumed, I noticed the difference in what had to be re-supplied during a replenishing supply visit in a port in another part of the world.  

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

So true...that temperature is the whole ball game where fruit is concerned.  Once upon a time I had a store where we sold fruit baskets and baked goods.  I could place the bananas in the warmer section of the walk-in cooler and they would slowly ripen in the cooler 45* temp.  They would be good for a week.  The new ships actually have whole walk-in rooms set at varying degrees in order to ripen the fruit on schedule as needed.  The most difficult to ripen are the cantaloupe and melons in general...a real pain.  My hat is tipped to the galley crew onboard ship who can produce a really good fruit salad.  

 

Only carried bananas once, hence the memory is hazy. Best guess is we kept the holds about 10C/50F. We had to maintain this temperature to +/- 0.5C. If we succeeded, they came aboard green and left still green.

 

Once they left the ship, the ripening process started.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Only carried bananas once, hence the memory is hazy. Best guess is we kept the holds about 10C/50F. We had to maintain this temperature to +/- 0.5C. If we succeeded, they came aboard green and left still green.

 

Once they left the ship, the ripening process started.

Right on you are...and were.  The cooling process could even be done when the bananas  turned yellow...once they were delivered to the final destination.  When we built a fruit basket the fruit we used was a day or so from its peak.  This was done by careful observation and arranging in the walk-in cooler.  The big ships are doing the same on a grander scale.  The fruit we get at the super market is picked green.  I bought a pineapple recently and it sat for two weeks before it ripened...what a pain!

[Lowiepete]

On board ship, if you didn't have what they called an after breakfast "jacket-job", you'd be classed as "spare" from 9.30am until 11am. Jacket jobs were just that, jobs to do with being in pax areas and requiring you wear an all-white jacket. So, it would be jobs like tending to the several planters, or fetching clean linen from the laundry.

 

On spare duties, you could be assigned anywhere from floor-polishing to brass cleaning where, not surprisingly, you also had to be wearing a white jacket. Every day at sea there would be deck polishing and stairway maintenance to do. We'd be set off by the Extra 2nd Stewards in gangs of 4 with 2 polishing machines, mops, buckets and liquid floor wax. It's no overstatement that we polished that ship half to death!

 

With the brass cleaning, dead Coca Cola was your friend. I'm not sure if the current blend has now been "sanitised" to the point where it'll no longer work, but back then it always brought up the big deadlight locking screws a treat. They'd be the very devil of things to polish otherwise. We'd wonder what that stuff was doing to your insides.

 

You could also be assigned tasks in the galley if they were labour-intensive. It was not uncommon for two of us to go and assist the fruit pantryman. In that room, nothing but nothing other than our feet, was ever placed directly onto the deck, almost on pain of death.

 

We were there either to do fetching and carrying if the "gang" who would normally do this were diverted, or to do fruit preparation "on a scale". With deck buffet service being up to an hour ahead of the main restaurants, it could be quite a work-up! If there was no deck buffet, it could be a regular complete strip-out of all the shelving, including the very heavy cold shelf. It wasn't a big pantry, but we had that job organised down to a fine art.  

 

Fruit prep could vary from segmenting grapefruit into a stainless steel bowl ready for ladling into glasses later. There dare not be a pip, or worse, part of one. You'd be asked to prepare melon, guavas, avocados etc., for the deck buffet luncheon to one of the worst jobs of all, which has prompted this addition.

 

 By the time you reach your 3rd or 4th cantaloup melon to cut out balls for the melon-ball cocktails, you never wanted to see another in your life! Yeah, it's good fun at home where you'll perhaps tackle a single fruit, but a whole trayful that never seems to diminish? Work of the devil!

 

Luckily, there was a clever hand-driven mechanical device for skinning / rinding pineapples, though you needed some force to core it whole. Of course, you could cheat a bit and do them by halves, but you'd not do it openly. The banter could be fierce! The other place in the galley we could be seconded to was in helping the cold pantrymen. Again, a lot of repetitive work, but it _had_ to be to a consistently high standard! Every piece you produced was closely inspected.

 

The cold pantry was glass faced toward to the remainder of the galley to give the air-conditioning a chance. It was protected on the galley side by an open steel mesh curtain in frames you could raise to clean the glass. It also faced out onto the Chef's station desk and you'd worry if something had caught his eye to divert him away for a closer look. Give him his due, he'd not be shy to praise you, but if he didn't, once he'd gone you got it in the neck from the pantrymen too!

 

Regards,

Steve 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Lowiepete

[shipgeeks]

Steve, I bet it would be interesting to see a list of all the job titles/jobs you had during your long career. (I fear, though, that it might be so extensive that Cruise Critic would crash from all the input!)

[Lowiepete]

3 hours ago, shipgeeks said:

Steve, I bet it would be interesting to see a list of all the job titles/jobs you had during your long career. (I fear, though, that it might be so extensive that Cruise Critic would crash from all the input!)

 

LOL, not really. During my 3 or so years at sea,

I started as a Callender Boy on Transvaal Castle, (no Sea School, right time, right place),

trip off and transferred to Pretoria Castle,

transferred to Caronia as a Commis Waiter (no Catering College, right time, right place),

Staff Captain's Commis on Carmania (worst 5 months of my life!),

trip to Switzerland for 3 months,

back to Caronia as 1st Class Steward. (The Swiss trip swung that for me).

Did a trip on the Windsor Castle as Asst Officers Steward (Staff Captain's table), 

then back to Caronia for a year or so as 1st Class Steward.

 

I left the sea when the 1966 Seafarers Strike happened. I saw the writing on the wall and just how difficult it would be to get a job when all the redundancies happened. So, I went back to Switzerland to work, ending up doing 10 months at the Hotel Baur au Lac in Zurich, then came back to work in a small hotel in the New Forest. Way too young to become a head waiter 😞

 

Did a spell as a natural gas conversion engineer, ended up on the Chairman's Complaints team which was interesting. Later spent nearly 20 years on British Rail, started as a signalman, transferred to Lowestoft as Rest Day Relief, then became signalmen's roster clerk, then two spells in booking offices. Became disabled in 1992, so discharged under Ill Health Redundancy, been a layabout since 😉

 

Started building the Caronia Archive in 2001 and launched the Timeline in 2004. The feedback I've received has totally blown me away! There's been several reunions of former shipmates which is probably the most pleasing aspect.

 

Regards,

Steve

 

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Lowiepete
software froze

[rkacruiser]

52 minutes ago, Lowiepete said:

There's been several reunions of former shipmates which is probably the most pleasing aspect.

 

Reunions with former colleagues or classmates  have been a most meaningful experience for me as a retiree.  I have gotten to know college classmates so much better than I ever did when we were on campus.  

 

13 hours ago, Lowiepete said:

Fruit prep could vary from segmenting grapefruit into a stainless steel bowl ready for ladling into glasses later.

 

As a grapefruit lover, I have never had a dish of segmented grapefruit served to me.  I am left with digging out the segments with a spoon that is not designed for such a job.  

 

Even when the segments have attempted to be separated from the fruit, the amount of waste of the fruit that remains is shameful.  Not me, though.  I keep "digging".  

[rkacruiser]

On 2/22/2021 at 5:02 PM, Lowiepete said:

 

...by having a crew to passenger ratio of 1:1 or better

...by having a Chef who knew how to provision his stores

...by having access to dedicated pantries, steaming, baking, grilling and roasting facilities, although a lot cooking on board Caronia was done with electric cookers. From soup cook to roast cook, those guys loved the preparation of their supplies!  

 

If you have a look at the crew lists, there would often be as many Catering Dept crew as passengers. If you were lucky enough to do a transat to New York ahead of a cruise when the ship was quiet, you'd dine 1st class for a Cabin Class fare. There was just no point in doing otherwise.

 

Regards,

Steve

 

Your post makes me wonder what the ratio of Catering Department crew to passengers are on today's luxury lines, i.e. Seabourn, Silverseas, Regent, are today in comparison to when you were on the Caronia.  Lots of promises by the luxury lines of magnificent dining experiences.   But, I wonder.  Just because a company has a well known Corporate Chef employed:  what does that really mean for the guest's onboard experience?

[Heidi13]

3 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Your post makes me wonder what the ratio of Catering Department crew to passengers are on today's luxury lines, i.e. Seabourn, Silverseas, Regent, are today in comparison to when you were on the Caronia.  Lots of promises by the luxury lines of magnificent dining experiences.   But, I wonder.  Just because a company has a well known Corporate Chef employed:  what does that really mean for the guest's onboard experience?

 

An excellent question. Here are some of my thoughts.

 

I have no doubt that the modern version of "Luxury" ships have less crew per passenger, than the old steam ships. In addition to receiving less service, you also have to consider that on the older Cunard & P&O ships, meal service was exemplary "Silver Service". I'm not aware of any of the top supposedly Luxury Cruise Lines that offer Silver Service. Proper Silver Service takes more resources than the modern service of loading plates in the galley and dropping them on the table. Therefore, that is a mitigating factor in newer ships having less crew.

 

As I was 10 yrs behind Steve, I didn't experienced the exact same service levels that Steve describes, but they were still of a very high standard. Accepting that luxury means different things to different people, personally I don't consider any of the cruise lines as true "Luxury". I used to read some of the threads on the Luxury Board and got a good laugh from some of the posters who were adamant that their Line of choice was "Luxury", but others, such as Viking, Oceania and Azamara were not.

 

Back on the Steam Ships, every evening was formal, with everyone in their best bib & tucker. If the galley staff and wait staff are making supreme efforts, the pax generally responded by dressing accordingly. It was certainly an amazing spectacle. Sadly, on the current Luxury ships, attire standards are only recommendations.

 

While I haven't sailed with any of the "Luxury" cruise lines, I did research each of them fairly extensively. Compared to the experience I had on the steam ships, I consider them as "Nouveau" or "Faux" luxury, as a butler and fancy Chefs & Sommeliers in the Corporate Office, don't equate to real luxury.

 

 

[Lowiepete]

13 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

As a grapefruit lover, I have never had a dish of segmented grapefruit served to me.  I am left with digging out the segments with a spoon that is not designed for such a job.  

 

So, you've never experienced the joy of working a grapefruit knife? After a very short while, if there were two of us on this task, it became the battle of minimum waste. Upside was that the bowl got filled quicker, with the oneupmanship of course, downside being you got chosen again next time round.

 

Regards,

Steve

[shipgeeks]

13 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

 

Back on the Steam Ships, every evening was formal, with everyone in their best bib & tucker. If the galley staff and wait staff are making supreme efforts, the pax generally responded by dressing accordingly. It was certainly an amazing spectacle. Sadly, on the current Luxury ships, attire standards are only recommendations.

 

 

DH still says he refuses to dress to a lower standard than the crew.  No t-shirts in the dining room while waiters are in proper uniforms.

 

Steve, You used two terms I'm unfamiliar with:  Callender Boy, and Commis Waiter.  Would you please elaborate?

[Lowiepete]

14 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Your post makes me wonder what the ratio of Catering Department crew to passengers are on today's luxury lines, i.e. Seabourn, Silverseas, Regent, are today in comparison to when you were on the Caronia.  Lots of promises by the luxury lines of magnificent dining experiences.   But, I wonder.  Just because a company has a well known Corporate Chef employed:  what does that really mean for the guest's onboard experience?

 

The answer being that there is no comparison. However, Caronia also stood apart from her sisters with a very high ratio, often way better than 1:1. It's why I can be so bold as to claim that it's a lifestyle that's not likely to ever be repeated. Her fares reflected the level of service, although on transats they had to match the remaining fleet. You'd maybe think the Great World Cruise would be the most expensive, but pro-rata, it was the North Cape cruise that had the highest per-night rate.

 

Comparison with today; there is no match. The way that crew are recruited, trained and treated bears no resemblance. Hotel management and all sorts of invented names, probably carrying flash titles to cover the mediocre pay. The only comparison being that we were almost paid by Cunard. The way the ship operated was entirely lubricated by generous passengers.

 

However, the two biggest changes are the methods of splitting the "guest levels" and just how "captive" modern ships are. It isn't a surprise that Carnival shares were worth a bomb not so long ago. They had their costs pared to the bone and their profits soared. 

 

Back in the day, you boarded your cruise ship and it became your temporary home. There was no demarcation of service, you could take your afternoon tea wherever you wanted. At the deck buffets you received the same level of service as anybody else. Okay, there were some  limitations, like you were assigned the same table in your restaurant for every meal and that choice was made according to your stateroom position. However, that was more or less the only limitation.

 

I don't really know what brought about the biggest change. I'm guessing that it has to do with greedy port authorities and their overnight charges for berthing, often with shore supplies of power. Today's ships are now out to sea by 5.30pm or not much later. This has given opportunities to the marketers in being able to fleece their now captive audience.

 

So, no opportunity to dine out in the wonderful bistros ashore and experience some of the "life" of the places your now just glimpsing. Instead, it's all about the Chef! In reality, it doesn't really matter which level of dining you want to pay extra for, it still comes from the very same kitchen and overall control remains the same, with food that will become singularly boring.

 

Service a la Russe and Silver Service; well at the Savoy they'll say the former is cafeteria service and in the cafe they'll say the latter is posh. That's how far apart they are and why I no longer recognise the cookie cutter levels of service. My thoughts are for the passengers and how by comparison they're being short-changed quite royally.

 

Cruising today is not the relaxing time visiting far-off places and immersing yourself into real cosmopolitan life. The destination is the "ship". It's unlikely that you'll make your temporary floating home feel like a country club, with a level of service that is as transparent as you want it to be. I shrug my shoulders in despair.

 

Yes, Caronia suited the very wealthy, but being able to sneak aboard into a "B Deck" cabin and spend all your waking hours on every other deck and enjoy plenty of time ashore wasn't beyond reach. Nobody would be pointing at you because of it. Indeed, there were pax who made a hobby of it and just like their upper deck rivals, returned year after year. 

 

Regards,

Steve

 

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Lowiepete
missing words round...

[Lowiepete]

1 hour ago, shipgeeks said:

Steve, You used two terms I'm unfamiliar with:  Callender Boy, and Commis Waiter.  Would you please elaborate?

 

ShipGeeks, do you not have the fount of all knowledge already in your hand? 🧐

 

Okay, you choose to make me work. A "callender" is a padded roller, about 8 feet long, that when rotated against its smooth, usually steam heated, steel bed will do the ironing at a rate. Some machines had two smaller diameter rollers with ribbons carrying the napkins or sheets and pillow cases from one to the other. These could rotate faster as there was a greater drying area.

 

On a single roller you had to peel an item off, if it didn't drop by itself as it should. At rest, a roller was lifted from its bed. When lowered it would be left to turn for a minute or three before it became warm enough to do the drying. On board a ship with such a demand for clean bed and table linen they were a marvel.

 

On one side you took out the damp napkin and quickly shook it out and fed it as flat and square as you could into the bed. On the other side the napkin would be peeled off by the ribbon and you'd fold it, small into 4, large into 6. I can't remember the rate we folded a minute, but it was prodigious. There would be 4 of you at the machine.

 

You could shake and fold at a rate where at least 4 napkins a side were in the process at once. Being on the folding end was quite a challenge and, as ever, there was competition between left and right sides. You couldn't let the folding quality drop because the laundry manager would regularly come collecting and counting. Doing sheets was a two-man job on either side.

 

We were expected to do a certain load during a shift, the advantage being that the more quickly we fed that rolling beast, the sooner we could get out of that work-house and get some sea air.

The rollers were chain driven as they rested by their own weight on the bed. Laundries were mostly at the aft end where there was plenty of vertical motion. In rough seas we'd occasionally have to stop because when the ship dropped, there would be too much stress on the roller's bearings.

 

Being able to do the ironing never left me at sea. I would _never_ been seen, dead or alive, wearing a crease in my shirt or not having tight creases in my uniform trousers. On gala nights, we didn't wear jackets in the restaurant so we had to cope with cummerbunds instead!

 

Commis Waiter is another term for Bell Boy. Although mostly assigned to the restaurants we were expected to learn the waiting craft by doing most of the donkey-work. We certainly had to "learn the menu" and master the wearing of white gloves with spoon and fork in one hand and plate in the other. There was a Radio Messenger and Captain + Staff Captain Commis, the remainder out of usually 8 worked in the restaurant.

 

CGT asked about "russian eggs". That took me back to my Commis days. Imagine 8 hard-boiled egg halves on their backs in a 6" by 4" steep-sided dish. The eggs have a top-hat piped over the yolks and you have big hands partly hampered by tight white gloves. Rarely are the eggs placed upon salad leaves, making the job so much simpler, or so you'd think.

 

You need to transfer two egg halves to a plate one-handed with spoon and fork, without disturbing the top-hats anywhere. Your task is also to make the plate you're assembling look attractive, while also leaving the remainder in the dish undisturbed for someone else to choose. Now, just add slippery eggs on their backs and a rolling ship into the mix. 😉

 

On embarkation days, we did all the distribution of cards and flowers, although two were assigned to do the fetching and carrying to support the buffet in the main lounges. The job entailed walking for miles and miles each day. Two of us would do a tour of all the passenger pantries each morning well before breakfast service, doing a printed-matter distribution. Fetching and carrying was done between the other jobs like serving from the heated bun bin, or the HorsD' or the smoked salmon.

 

If we could walk, we could work. We could pick out the waiters who seemed to struggle the most and be a most lucrative form of income. The only part where little walking was involved was in manning the restaurant doors and welcoming passengers in. The job taught me all about efficiency and even today, well over 50 years later, I cannot bear inefficient methods, like handling goods 3 times at supermarket checkouts.

 

Regards,

Steve

 

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Lowiepete
wrong person blamed ;)

[shipgeeks]

Before I posted, I tried looking up "callender", and only got calendars, no matter how hard I tried.  So I went to the real fount of knowledge, and asked you.  

Now I know, it is what my mother called a "mangle".  She had one in the basement for a while, for pressing my dad's business shirts, and probably the bed linens.

Thank you!

[Lowiepete]

32 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

Now I know, it is what my mother called a "mangle".  She had one in the basement for a while, for pressing my dad's business shirts, and probably the bed linens.

 

It's my bad! Perhaps I've been mis-spelling it for years, though it's written with 2 elles in my discharge book. Try searching for laundry calender machine. However... 

 

Today they appear to be called rotary irons

 

A mangle is simply a machine for pressing out surplus water. Invented before the days of 1600rpm spin dryers. In a ship's laundry, a calender ironed the cloths after they had been spun dry in a "hydro". That was an industrial spinner that made such a racket you needed ear defenders to be near it.

 

The guy who tended the ship's washing / drying machines was known as the Hydroman.

 

Looking further into this, it looks like the rollers were heated.

 

Regards,

Steve

Edited February 26, 2021 by Lowiepete

[Heidi13]

33 minutes ago, Lowiepete said:

I don't really know what brought about the biggest change. I'm guessing that it has to do with greedy port authorities and their overnight charges for berthing, often with shore supplies of power. Today's ships are now out to sea by 5.30pm or not much later. This has given opportunities to the marketers in being able to fleece their now captive audience.

 

Steve - I believe the "Carnivalisation" & "NCL'ing" of cruising started in the late 80's and early 90's, when cruise lines started ordering new tonnage, of ever increasing size, at an alarming rate.

 

When I worked on Oriana and Canberra, we had already given up liner voyages in favour of cruising, but the cruising was a balance of sea days and port stays. Out of Southampton, you generally had about 3 sea days at the beginning and end, with ports in the middle of the 2 weeks. It was similar when we were based out of Sydney, with sea days at the beginning and end of the cruise. Therefore, the cruise was a balance of shipboard life and seeing ports, with onboard standards stil being reasonably high. A step down from the 60's, but probably as good, or better than what they consider current luxury cruising.

 

The first motor ships, were smaller than the steam liners - Royal Viking Line, Spirit of London, Island/Pacific Princess, Cunard Countess/Princess. The smaller ships of < 750 pax had less activities to entertain the newer cruisers, who wanted a port every day. Cruises also got shorter, again to meet the needs of newer and somewhat unsophisticated pax. 7-night cruises, with 5 or 6 ports quickly became the norm.

 

Prices also remained steady, as they required an ever increasing supply of newbies to fill the new tonnage. This drove economy of scale and reduction of standards. Newer ships got increasingly larger, as on some of the RCI ships, you have 6,000 pax paying the Captain, but on Viking, only 930 paying the Captain. The Deck & Engineering are generally almost fixed costs, regardless of ship size, but the hotel is scaled based on number of pax.

 

When mega ships hit the waters, the ships became the travel destination, with ever increasing activities and nickle and diming. At the same time, the ports could not handle all the mega ships, so the 5 or 6 ports per 7-day cruise was curtailed to 3 or 4.

 

In some regions, shore-ex revenue is the primary income, but in reality they make more money when pax are onboard. Therefore, I believe the best (most profitable) model for them is short periods in port to flog their grossly inflated shore-ex, then get back out to sea, steaming at slow speed.

 

Early departure allow slow steaming, which has a number of additional benefits. Fuel savings are huge - to provide an example, on Island/Pacific/Sun Princess we had 4 identical engines and could use any number of them. With 3 engines, we made about 18.5 kts, the 4th engine gained only 1 to 1.5 kts for 25% more fuel). In addition, the aft vibration and prop rumble is considerably less for all the aft expensive cabins.

 

We did experience some port issues with respect to Longshoreman costs. I remember many ports where we were prohibited from landing our heaving lines until a certain time. If we arrived a few minutes early, the Captain held the ship alongside and at the correct time, we were advised to send lines ashore. Sending them early, would have incurred additional costs.

[Lowiepete]

Heidi13, I totally agree and it's why I find watching modern advertorials (for that's what they've become) so painful! Not that I've been following every trend, but I had to laugh when just recently the admen, aka marketers summed-up their own industry in a single advert. "Cats that turn day into night"  🤐

 

Sorry, this might only apply to UK residents. If it does, ask and someone will explain it...

 

Regards,

Steve

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Just an addition note.  The RCI Symphony Of The Seas is one of the largest pax ship and carries 6,000 plus.  The galley crew numbers around 300 plus.  

[Lowiepete]

14 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Just an addition note.  The RCI Symphony Of The Seas is one of the largest pax ship and carries 6,000 plus.  The galley crew numbers around 300 plus.  

 

There's only one word I can find...  Bless

[Lowiepete]

I should perhaps add some commentary to my reaction.

 

Back in the day, we worked hard. There's no rose-tinted spectacle view of that. It was an accepted way of life and you met what was termed as "the exigencies of the service". You had no bones with that. Instead, you took pride in being able to meet all expectations in the knowledge that patrons on the other side of the divide appreciated it. Sum it up as both knowing their place, without decoration. In a way, the modern crew take the same view as we did, but under vastly different circumstances!

 

It's not only the admen that have had their wicked ways, although they have clearly influenced the ways seen as being forward or advancement. All this does is to reinforce in my mind just how modern passengers are being hoodwinked by claims of cruising based upon ancient traditions, (180 years is totally ancient to modern eyes) when clearly they are nothing of the sort! 

 

I have every sympathy for the guys and gals who crew on modern ships, but they're being misled just as much as the intending passengers are! Guys, I'm doing my best to hide my anger about this. It need not be so, but history will confirm the greed of shipowners right from the start, and the cruise industry is not exempt. I'm in danger of spoiling future adventures aboard ships and I'd want to be the last person to do that. However, I sincerely ask, do also please understand my frustration.

 

Regards,

Steve

[Heidi13]

10 minutes ago, Lowiepete said:

I should perhaps add some commentary to my reaction.

 

Back in the day, we worked hard. There's no rose-tinted spectacle view of that. It was an accepted way of life and you met what was termed as "the exigencies of the service". You had no bones with that. Instead, you took pride in being able to meet all expectations in the knowledge that patrons on the other side of the divide appreciated it. Sum it up as both knowing their place, without decoration. In a way, the modern crew take the same view as we did, but under vastly different circumstances!

 

It's not only the admen that have had their wicked ways, although they have clearly influenced the ways seen as being forward or advancement. All this does is to reinforce in my mind just how modern passengers are being hoodwinked by claims of cruising based upon ancient traditions, (180 years is totally ancient to modern eyes) when clearly they are nothing of the sort! 

 

I have every sympathy for the guys and gals who crew on modern ships, but they're being misled just as much as the intending passengers are! Guys, I'm doing my best to hide my anger about this. It need not be so, but history will confirm the greed of shipowners right from the start, and the cruise industry is not exempt. I'm in danger of spoiling future adventures aboard ships and I'd want to be the last person to do that. However, I sincerely ask, do also please understand my frustration.

 

Regards,

Steve

 

So true, and I have similar feelings towards the money grabbing shipowners.

 

When I worked for P&O/Princess (pre-Carnavalisation) they were a great company that didn't pay us much, but looked after us very well. When we finished as cadets and were offered a job with P&O Cruises, we signed a contract that was automatically renewed. We had a well defined career path, which included assistance, when we required additional certificates of competence.

 

Let me outline the differences between my training and our son's.

 

In 1975, I was an "Indentured Cadet" with the P&O Group Training Dept. Basically the terms required me to sign-on assigned ships, attend college phases and put out my best effort to complete the training. The company was required to provide the necessary seatime and college training, at no cost to me, while also paying me a small wage. My parents also signed the indenture document, attesting to the fact they will ensure I put out the max effort.

 

When I signed on about April 1975, the wage was about UKP 45/mo, but when I started in August the rate had increased to UKP 60/mo. This was deposited monthly, directly into my account, regardless of whether I was at sea, on leave, or in college. When at sea, our work ratio was 4 months on, 1 month off. Therefore, after a 4 month trip, we got 1 month off with full pay, then went back to sea again for 4 months.

 

For travel, our only cost was to get to the closest train station, as the company paid 2nd Class rail throughout UK. Once on the train, we were considered back at work. If international travel was required, we received economy flights.

 

Shortly after starting, we were assigned a college, with dates for each of the 2 phases. Wherever we were in the World, they flew us home for the college phases. All tuition and room & board were paid by the company. They also paid our travel to/from college and home. Our only expense was books & refreshments. All our exams were also paid by the company.

 

Once I completed the training, I was transferred to P&O Cruises, signing a contract. We received the minimum salary for Deck Officers at UKP 5,000/annum. Cargo ships made an additional UKP 500, tankers/bulkers an additional UKP 1,000 and chemical tankers an additional UKP 1,500. However, we had some amazing benefits from many of the P&O Group companies - 50% off mortgage interest, discounts for new homes, with lots more. We were again paid by direct deposit, regardless of whether we were working or on leave. If we were sick, while on leave, a quick call to the office and our leave was extended.

 

Our son started with Princess in 2003. His training was a more academic/textbook training model, as compared to my cadet/apprentice model. He had more college time and less seatime. He started at the local Vancouver Marine College and when Princess came interviewing cadets for positions, he was successful.

 

However, the college and exam costs were his responsibility and he did not receive any remuneration, when not aboard a ship. Once his college phase 1 was complete, Princess assigned him to a ship for 6 months. He had to get to Vancouver airport to catch the company supplied flight. However, no pay or benefits were provided.

 

Once he signed-on the ship, his monthly payment started at the rate of US $900/mo. No direct deposit was offered, so he had to present himself to the crew Purser, who provided cash. When he signed-off, payment stopped. He received 1 month off, then back to sea for another 6 months. On the 2nd ship, same conditions - US $900/month, with no benefits.

 

He was responsible for all tuition costs, room & board when not at sea and any benefits he required. Fortunately we have social medicine, so he had no medical expenses.

 

When promoted to 3rd Officer, his payments increased to US $5,000/mo, which were again only received when signed on. This was also paid on board in cash, so after 4 months you can imagine how much cash they travelled home with.

 

Princess basically had 3 contracts, which in order of best to worst were - UK, Europe and US/rest of world. Therefore on 1 ship the three 3rd officers were probably all on different contracts, making different money. The company really didn't care about the officers, all they wanted was the Certificate of Competency, at the lowest cost possible.

[Lowiepete]

The point about that above being that to think it doesn't have any drip-down effect is living in cloud-cuckoo land. If you don't love yourself, how can you love others? Likewise, if you don't feel valued. At some point there has to be some kind of re-balancing, although I don't see it happening too soon.

 

I look back at my own parents; humble folk. Father worked managing a small hardware store and was able to fund the raising of us 3 without mother _having_ to go to work. It wasn't the high-life, but we never went without to any great extent. Across the road from me today is a guy working all the hours God sends and his partner likewise. 04:50hrs is when I often hear him start his car, 6 or 7 days a week.

 

They may have pretend laws about modern slavery, but that's what they are; pretence. Even then, this couple struggle to pay the rent, let alone buy fast cars or go on fancy holidays. Something is out of kilter and at some point there could be a backlash!

 

Some while ago, I read of cruise fares being all inclusive. That is inclusive of gratuities. I'd had a strong feeling that the bosses always wanted a piece of that action, and it looks like somehow they snatched it. In my book, greed comes directly behind jealousy in terms of dreadful human emotions, but shipowners did a slam-dunk and combined both of them in one go! 

 

I'm giggling to myself, because I can now picture my own Grandfather, keeping his bottie warm against his Rayburn (a variation of an Aga cooker) and going to town over something he'd read that morning in his "Daily Sketch" that he didn't agree with. Oh, back then the World was going to the Devil in a handcart!

 

Now, 65 years later, here I am predicting the very same thing...

 

Regards,

Steve

[CGTNORMANDIE]

3 hours ago, Lowiepete said:

The point about that above being that to think it doesn't have any drip-down effect is living in cloud-cuckoo land. If you don't love yourself, how can you love others? Likewise, if you don't feel valued. At some point there has to be some kind of re-balancing, although I don't see it happening too soon.

 

I look back at my own parents; humble folk. Father worked managing a small hardware store and was able to fund the raising of us 3 without mother _having_ to go to work. It wasn't the high-life, but we never went without to any great extent. Across the road from me today is a guy working all the hours God sends and his partner likewise. 04:50hrs is when I often hear him start his car, 6 or 7 days a week.

 

They may have pretend laws about modern slavery, but that's what they are; pretence. Even then, this couple struggle to pay the rent, let alone buy fast cars or go on fancy holidays. Something is out of kilter and at some point there could be a backlash!

 

Some while ago, I read of cruise fares being all inclusive. That is inclusive of gratuities. I'd had a strong feeling that the bosses always wanted a piece of that action, and it looks like somehow they snatched it. In my book, greed comes directly behind jealousy in terms of dreadful human emotions, but shipowners did a slam-dunk and combined both of them in one go! 

 

I'm giggling to myself, because I can now picture my own Grandfather, keeping his bottie warm against his Rayburn (a variation of an Aga cooker) and going to town over something he'd read that morning in his "Daily Sketch" that he didn't agree with. Oh, back then the World was going to the Devil in a handcart!

 

Now, 65 years later, here I am predicting the very same thing...

 

Regards,

Steve

 

“The world was going to the Devil...”  The sorry truth is...it has.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Those of us who love being at sea on a comfortable ship have always known that the Golden Age of the transatlantic liners is long past.  We know that the level of service will never be what it once was.  But...every once and a while when we receive a special favor by a kind steward or waiter and we stand at the rail, looking out at the boundless sea, thinking that this is almost what was...once upon a time.  We still get glimpses of what was and it is for this reason that we continue to cruise.  There is still no better feeling, for me, than to be standing with my feet firmly planted on the deck of a moving ship.