Cunard

[Selbourne]

I am no fan of ABTA who, as others have stated, exist to support the travel trade, not customers (and as Harry rightly points out have handled this crisis appallingly) and I don’t really understand why so many people use TA’s (with the earlier payment requirements, added risks and complexity etc) in return for such small discounts, but I distinctly recall during the peak of the crisis that ABTA IS underwritten by the U.K. government as a ‘guarantor of last resort’, so people may be worrying unnecessarily. 

[Adawn47]

31 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

That is exactly what Harry was saying, and I agree that ABTA is a trade body, but the protection it offers to customers has always been seen as a major benefit, and so far I don't believe it has reneged on its promise.

I read a while ago in an online paper when this refund fiasco was at it's height , that ABTA were 'advising' claimants to wait xx number months before requesting a refund.  That was certainly not to help the claimants who may have needed, and were entitled to their money refunded in two weeks.  ABTA was seen as a major benefit when things were normal, but not once it all hit the fan, then they circled their wagons. I wish could remember where  saw it. 

Avril

[Harry Peterson]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

Harry, it was never the TA's responsibility for financing the cruise refunds, so ABTA would have been totally in the wrong to lean on them.

John, Carnival and various other cruise companies are all ABTA members too, because they're also travel agents.  It would have been absolutely right and proper for ABTA to lean on them, if their claim to represent the public makes any sense.

 

In reality, it's a false claim - and by failing to press their members to make the refunds which were, and still are, legally due they've proved conclusively that in any dispute ABTA will always favour their members.  Even when they're acting unlawfully.

[Harry Peterson]

54 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I am no fan of ABTA who, as others have stated, exist to support the travel trade, not customers (and as Harry rightly points out have handled this crisis appallingly) and I don’t really understand why so many people use TA’s (with the earlier payment requirements, added risks and complexity etc) in return for such small discounts, but I distinctly recall during the peak of the crisis that ABTA IS underwritten by the U.K. government as a ‘guarantor of last resort’, so people may be worrying unnecessarily. 

ATOL protection is certainly government backed, but I'm not sure that ABTA has any such backing.  I may be wrong, but I can't see anything to confirm that its scheme is government backed.

 

ATOL is the gold standard - but it has to involve a flight, so some cruises will be covered.

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

ATOL protection is certainly government backed, but I'm not sure that ABTA has any such backing.  I may be wrong, but I can't see anything to confirm that its scheme is government backed.

 

ATOL is the gold standard - but it has to involve a flight, so some cruises will be covered.

I’m just going by a TV interview that I saw a few months ago where the Head of ABTA was interviewed regarding all the problems of travel refunds etc and he was specifically asked the question “given the likely numbers of failures in the travel industry, what if ABTA cannot afford the scale of payments?”. I distinctly recall the government being the ‘backer of last resort’ terminology so I doubt it’s promoted.

[Harry Peterson]

19 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I’m just going by a TV interview that I saw a few months ago where the Head of ABTA was interviewed regarding all the problems of travel refunds etc and he was specifically asked the question “given the likely numbers of failures in the travel industry, what if ABTA cannot afford the scale of payments?”. I distinctly recall the government being the ‘backer of last resort’ terminology so I doubt it’s promoted.

You may be right, though I think the 'backer of last resort' reference was to the ATOL scheme, which is much more restrictive in that a flight has to be involved.

 

It was in March, and ABTA welcomed the scheme, because a lot of the holidays they sell are ATOL protected and that doesn't involve a hit on themselves.  I suspect that ABTA were more than happy for the confusion between the two schemes to arise, because it takes the heat away from their own refusal to oblige their members to comply with the very clear law on refunds.

 

These links might be of interest:

 

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/07/government-confirms-financial-protection-for-package-holiday-refund-credit-notes/

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/package-holiday-refund-rules-suspended-abta-coronavirus-a9417261.html

[Britboys]

3 hours ago, PORT ROYAL said:

 

Interesting point, but will the price phobic P&O deserters pay a potentially much higher price to sail Cunard?  

Currently 2021 Cunard bookings are strong, with Grills and Club "Sold Out", and other grades showing limited space.  Our PCS has mentioned there is a known potential within Cunard for the new brochure to sell very strongly when released, so there will be no need to offer bargains in the short/medium/long term, with fluid pricing looking to increase rates considerably.

Think, going forward, the new Cunard brochure prices will be 40/50% above the March 2020 release (currently no far off 40% up).

Even if 50% plus, happy to pay, to sail on a Line one wishes to.

Suggest those deserting PO should book 29 September 2020 to secure Stateroom number of choice.

 

 

 

But almost all cruise lines now have very strong booking levels for next year as so many people have either transferred deposits over or used FCCs. There will also be a carry-over of this into 2022, which will be boosted the longer the pause in operations lasts. Things may start to get back to normal by 2023. Hopefully, us P&O small-ship pax will not need to think about deserting until at least 2023 when P&O should have their next 5200+ pax leviathan (although anything could happen in the next 12 months...).

Additionally, those of us that prefer to sail on Aurora and Arcadia are generally already paying a premium for that privilege.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Britboys
Addition

[grapau27]

3 hours ago, Adawn47 said:

I read a while ago in an online paper when this refund fiasco was at it's height , that ABTA were 'advising' claimants to wait xx number months before requesting a refund.  That was certainly not to help the claimants who may have needed, and were entitled to their money refunded in two weeks.  ABTA was seen as a major benefit when things were normal, but not once it all hit the fan, then they circled their wagons. I wish could remember where  saw it. 

Avril

I found the TA we used gave zero help during the refunds fiasco.

[AndyMichelle]

16 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

I found the TA we used gave zero help during the refunds fiasco.

Same here Graham, in fact, they were a hindrance by giving false information. 

Andy

[grapau27]

1 minute ago, AndyMichelle said:

Same here Graham, in fact, they were a hindrance by giving false information. 

Andy

My experience too Andy.

Graham.

[bee-ess]

Mine have also been no help at all with various queries we have had on FCC's. Also it is the inordinate time taken for me to ask them and then them to ask P&O and then wait while P&O reply to them and then them to reply to us. It is P&O direct for us from now on (if we stay with P&O)

Edited August 30, 2020 by bee-ess

[Harry Peterson]

1 hour ago, grapau27 said:

I found the TA we used gave zero help during the refunds fiasco.

I received no help from my usually very good TA (quite a few here use them and speak well of them - so do I) but to be fair, most TAs do very little in most situations apart from act as a forwarding point.

 

I did get refunds of deposits when I cancelled, without even the need for a non-disclosure agreement this time, but the TA contributed nothing.  I wasn't really expecting it - there were legal issues around the deposits on which I'd have been prepared to litigate - but it's best to assume you're very much on your own in any dispute with P&O on their T&C.

[nosapphire]

I thought that P&O and Cunard were two different types of cruise experience? Many people will enjoy both, but equally many people will prefer one over the other.

A few people may be driven entirely by price, but the majority will surely look for the cruise that suits them best, whether because of the on-board experience, the on-board facilities, or just the itinerary.

Anyway, looks as if this pandemic will give many of us the opportunity, when it ends,  to try something different.

[Bazrat]

2 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

I thought that P&O and Cunard were two different types of cruise experience? Many people will enjoy both, but equally many people will prefer one over the other.

A few people may be driven entirely by price, but the majority will surely look for the cruise that suits them best, whether because of the on-board experience, the on-board facilities, or just the itinerary.

Anyway, looks as if this pandemic will give many of us the opportunity, when it ends,  to try something different.

I agree with the first part of your comments but the last part most on here are at an age when they probably have tried most things, we came to cruising late so will continue when it restarts.

[Adawn47]

2 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

I agree with the first part of your comments but the last part most on here are at an age when they probably have tried most things, we came to cruising late so will continue when it restarts.

Exactly Baz.  We only began cruising in 2010 and there is still so much more of Europe left to see. We are at an age where we don't know how long we will be able continue to cruise, so are hoping for a late spring ,early summer restart🤞

Avril

[Britboys]

1 hour ago, nosapphire said:

I thought that P&O and Cunard were two different types of cruise experience? Many people will enjoy both, but equally many people will prefer one over the other.

A few people may be driven entirely by price, but the majority will surely look for the cruise that suits them best, whether because of the on-board experience, the on-board facilities, or just the itinerary.

Anyway, looks as if this pandemic will give many of us the opportunity, when it ends,  to try something different.

Personally, I think it depends on your experience of P&O and - as I have said before - the ships you sail on. From my own experience on P&O, I firmly believe that the experience on the smaller ships in the P&O fleet is quite different to that on the larger ones. I last sailed on Cunard 4 years ago but felt that it was pretty similar to the experiences I have had on Oriana, Aurora and Arcadia. It was however quite different to the experiences I have had on my two Azura cruises.

I would be quite happy to sail on Cunard again but am perhaps more likely to shift my allegiance to Fred Olsen, depending on price. Would love to try Saga but as their ships are all-balcony cabins, sadly beyond my budget.

[Bazrat]

3 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Personally, I think it depends on your experience of P&O and - as I have said before - the ships you sail on. From my own experience on P&O, I firmly believe that the experience on the smaller ships in the P&O fleet is quite different to that on the larger ones. I last sailed on Cunard 4 years ago but felt that it was pretty similar to the experiences I have had on Oriana, Aurora and Arcadia. It was however quite different to the experiences I have had on my two Azura cruises.

I would be quite happy to sail on Cunard again but am perhaps more likely to shift my allegiance to Fred Olsen, depending on price. Would love to try Saga but as their ships are all-balcony cabins, sadly beyond my budget.

Depending on price I showed my beloved the prices I can still hear her laughing now

[Britboys]

7 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

Depending on price I showed my beloved the prices I can still hear her laughing now

Cunard, Fred Olsen or both?

[PORT ROYAL]

4 hours ago, Britboys said:

Cunard, Fred Olsen or both?

Think the laughter was possibly one of joy, being attracted to booking asap.

 

 

[Bazrat]

5 minutes ago, PORT ROYAL said:

Think the laughter was possibly one of joy, being attracted to booking asap.

 

 

Not in your wildest dreams

[Bazrat]

4 hours ago, Britboys said:

Cunard, Fred Olsen or both?

Fred Olsen as for Cunard we going to to do a cruise to New York possibly 2022 with them

[Britboys]

27 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

Fred Olsen as for Cunard we going to to do a cruise to New York possibly 2022 with them

Yes, I don't know what Fred are doing with their prices at the moment. They tend to set their prices the other way round to P&O - i.e. expensive on launch and then good deals later. The 2022 cruises launched so far are the more unusual itineraries such as the Black Sea and Havana but even allowing for that, the prices are eye-watering.

[Csardas]

Re final payment dates with TAs- I was due to pay the balance of our Arcadia 5 night New Year cruise today. Spoke to the TA ( big company) and she easily agreed to extend to the 23/9, 3 days before P and O’s date had I booked directly. She confirmed it immediately by email. Ask - it’s worth a try. 

[wowzz]

4 hours ago, Csardas said:

Re final payment dates with TAs- I was due to pay the balance of our Arcadia 5 night New Year cruise today. Spoke to the TA ( big company) and she easily agreed to extend to the 23/9, 3 days before P and O’s date had I booked directly. She confirmed it immediately by email. Ask - it’s worth a try. 

Well done.

Shows it's worth asking. 

Hope your cruise goes ahead, but as you know, it is unlikely. 

[jeanlyon]

My TA has been extremely helpful right from the start.  He could not help with my refund as the money was with P&O which I eventually got back.  Since then he has also been very helpful regarding my deposits on future cruises.  They are rather tied though I feel, with staff being laid off an P&O not being very helpfu with FCCs not appearing on the accounts.

Edited September 3, 2020 by jeanlyon