Will P&O now delay announcements for future cruise pauses?

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

We cruised on Ventura and Azura maiden voyages and since they were first announced I have heard many P&Oers say "they are too big they will never fill them 52 weeks a year" but they do not seem to have struggled and as long as the pricing is right dont think they will have much trouble filling Iona/Arvia. Just for information on how fickle some P&O cruisers are many moaned about Arcadia saying they werent happy having a HA/Cunard cast off and would never sail on her but she has now become many people's favourite ship. Many who have cruised with P&O for 20+ years have heard all the moans even while on Arcadia/Aurora about bring back Canberra and these ships are too big. Strangely the same ships are now classed as small and loved by many. As the saying goes "there is nothing funnier than folk" especially those that sail on P&O. Met 2 ladies on the first morning of Britannia maiden cruise going around the atrium asking people and making a list of their dislikes of the ship so that they could complain to P&O on their return home.

I don't think it's a purely P&O trait.

If you look on other boards, there are always complaints about new ships from veteran cruisers.

[majortom10]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

I think that P&O (Carnival) have decided that P&O's brand position is very much going to be in the mass market, "pile it high, sell it cheap" sector. 

Nothing wrong with that, and, from a corporate point of view it probably makes sense, as Princess can then be positioned as a more upmarket alternative, with their "smaller" ships.

Whilst the Arcadia and Aurora lovers will obviously not be happy, Carnival have obviously decided that,  in the scale of things, the loss of those aficionados is not financially significant.  

But Princess only currently have two ships smaller than Azura/Ventura which is Island/Coral and cannot see those lasting long before they are sold. All other Princess ships are same size or bigger than Azura/Ventura. The only real difference is on some they are the same size in every way except some have one less deck of cabins so have less passengers but they are still bigger than Arcadia/Aurora in passenger numbers by 600/700+. So cannot see Princess attracting the P&Oers who dont want to cruise on big ships even though they might have fewer passengers still same size ship.

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by majortom10

[zap99]

14 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

We cruised on Ventura and Azura maiden voyages and since they were first announced I have heard many P&Oers say "they are too big they will never fill them 52 weeks a year" but they do not seem to have struggled and as long as the pricing is right dont think they will have much trouble filling Iona/Arvia. Just for information on how fickle some P&O cruisers are many moaned about Arcadia saying they werent happy having a HA/Cunard cast off and would never sail on her but she has now become many people's favourite ship. Many who have cruised with P&O for 20+ years have heard all the moans even while on Arcadia/Aurora about bring back Canberra and these ships are too big. Strangely the same ships are now classed as small and loved by many. As the saying goes "there is nothing funnier than folk" especially those that sail on P&O. Met 2 ladies on the first morning of Britannia maiden cruise going around the atrium asking people and making a list of their dislikes of the ship so that they could complain to P&O on their return home.

Makes me chuckle when folk stand at the lift on Brittania. They haven't got a midships stair case, tut tut, look of horror. I replied did you not know that before you booked , everyone in the world knows that, but you still booked.

[jeanlyon]

At least we can say we tried Azura.  Disliked her.  Accommodation was fine, but found it very odd to be walking inside on the Prom Deck and not able to see the sea.  If the two smaller ships go, then we would really have to consider Fred again, or perhaps do a different kind of holiday like we used to.  We really enjoyed our driving holidays down to South of France or Spain, so might do that again.  The overnight ferry from Plymouth to Santander is good fun and a start to the holiday.

[MX-Drew]

25 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Makes me chuckle when folk stand at the lift on Brittania. They haven't got a midships stair case, tut tut, look of horror. I replied did you not know that before you booked , everyone in the world knows that, but you still booked.

I guess that should be everyone's main concern when booking a cruise, where the stairs are on the ship and nothing to do with the itinerary.

TBH I didn't know Britannia didn't have a midship staircase and I was on it for Christmas / New Year 2019-2020 so, no everyone in the world does not know that but they probably do know it only has one 't'. 🙂 

[terrierjohn]

3 hours ago, wowzz said:

You are probably correct. However, there is a fair amount of choice for those of us not keen on the mega liners. Princess and Saga spring to mind. Yes, they may be more expensive (especially Saga) but personally I would be prepared to cruise less, but on ships I enjoy.

Do Princess still have any small ships left?  I think they recently sold Pacific Princess, all the Sun class ships have now left the Princess fleet, leaving just Island and Coral Princess, and I guess their future is uncertain, especially now that the Panama canal can take some of the bigger ships.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

The Royal class have about 3600 pax. Still big, but not as big as Iona.

Wowzz, P&O have 3 ships of Grand and Royal Princess size, and unless things have changed dramatically the Princess standard is very similar to P&O, and until Covid their pricing structure was quite a bit higher than P&O, and their decor is far more glitzy than Aurora and Arcadia.

Edited February 21, 2021 by terrierjohn

[terrierjohn]

49 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

At least we can say we tried Azura.  Disliked her.  Accommodation was fine, but found it very odd to be walking inside on the Prom Deck and not able to see the sea.  If the two smaller ships go, then we would really have to consider Fred again, or perhaps do a different kind of holiday like we used to.  We really enjoyed our driving holidays down to South of France or Spain, so might do that again.  The overnight ferry from Plymouth to Santander is good fun and a start to the holiday.

Can you see the sea while walking inside on Aurora and Arcadia's prom deck level?

[SeaJane]

6 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Can you see the sea while walking inside on Aurora and Arcadia's prom deck level?

Both Aurora and Arcadia have full prom decks and we always walk several times around them on sea days - one of the many pleasures of the cruise and goes someway to offset all that lovely food! 🤣

You can also see the sea when walking inside along some of the corridors of course, but we would rather be outdoors whatever the weather.

[zap99]

1 hour ago, MX-Drew said:

I guess that should be everyone's main concern when booking a cruise, where the stairs are on the ship and nothing to do with the itinerary.

TBH I didn't know Britannia didn't have a midship staircase and I was on it for Christmas / New Year 2019-2020 so, no everyone in the world does not know that but they probably do know it only has one 't'. 🙂 

You have my thanks for taking time on your busy Sunday to highlight that error.🤣

[jeanlyon]

Yes you can see the sea from inside the Prom deck on both Aurora and Arcadia.  Azura had the most odd layout of strange walkways inside the ship.  to be honest, we did not like her at all, particularly the buffet where all you could hear was knives falling off the stupidly designed trays.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, SeaJane said:

Both Aurora and Arcadia have full prom decks and we always walk several times around them on sea days - one of the many pleasures of the cruise and goes someway to offset all that lovely food! 🤣

You can also see the sea when walking inside along some of the corridors of course, but we would rather be outdoors whatever the weather.

You can also see the sea while walking outside on the prom decks of Azura and Ventura  and from my only experience on Aurora the internal sea view is from the deck above the promenade deck.

[wowzz]

The other issue that has not been mentioned, is discretionary spend, which from historic posts accounts for approximately 35% of revenue. 

I am now going to stereotype like mad,  but I would suggest that the average cruiser on Arcadia and  Aurora contributes significantly less than that.

As seasoned cruisers they won't want to take P&O excursions, won't spend much in the casino, probably won't drink too much (I couldn't believe it on our last cruise when our dining companion asked for her half full  bottle of water to be kept for the next night!) and generally spend very little onboard.

On the other hand,  the new ships can attract  new cruisers with low entry prices, but then generate significant extra income from excursions, casino spends, and alcohol consumption. 

So P&O have decided where their future lies. I actually think that in the medium to long term they are correct, despite what many of us here may feel. 

[davecttr]

8 hours ago, wowzz said:

The other issue that has not been mentioned, is discretionary spend, which from historic posts accounts for approximately 35% of revenue. 

I am now going to stereotype like mad,  but I would suggest that the average cruiser on Arcadia and  Aurora contributes significantly less than that.

As seasoned cruisers they won't want to take P&O excursions, won't spend much in the casino, probably won't drink too much (I couldn't believe it on our last cruise when our dining companion asked for her half full  bottle of water to be kept for the next night!) and generally spend very little onboard.

On the other hand,  the new ships can attract  new cruisers with low entry prices, but then generate significant extra income from excursions, casino spends, and alcohol consumption. 

So P&O have decided where their future lies. I actually think that in the medium to long term they are correct, despite what many of us here may feel. 

I remember reading a few years ago about I think it was a Princess survey that found that on average the more cruises done the lower the onboard spend. The conclusion is newer cruisers are more profitable and the more experienced ones end up generating a lot less profit. As long as the market is not saturated new cruisers are the way to go.

 

I have wondered if loyalty schemes would be better based on your onboard spend record rather than number of cruises.

[jeanlyon]

If you think about it, seasoned cruisers will have been to most of the ports and so will not do excursions very often and would prefer to DIY.  We like our wine with dinner and a drink beforehand, but don't drink during the day, so our bar bill for 19 nights is in the region of £500, so as you say, not a big spend.

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, davecttr said:

I have wondered if loyalty schemes would be better based on your onboard spend record rather than number of cruises.

That would certainly bring out a different type of boorishness, as passengers brag about their loyalty level.

[joeecco]

The main thing P&O are planning for is that the ‘loyal’ smaller ship cruisers are of an average age that isn’t going to ‘future proof’ the brand. 
Saga and Fred are two smaller ship brands that focus on the older age bands and so P&O will want to be the younger brand for the British, but still an upmarket version compared to Marella. 

[wowzz]

6 minutes ago, joeecco said:

The main thing P&O are planning for is that the ‘loyal’ smaller ship cruisers are of an average age that isn’t going to ‘future proof’ the brand. 
Saga and Fred are two smaller ship brands that focus on the older age bands and so P&O will want to be the younger brand for the British, but still an upmarket version compared to Marella. 

Interesting to note that whilst it is difficult to make a direct comparison, due to the fact that Marella are AI, their prices always seem considerably higher than P&O. 

[joeecco]

Just now, wowzz said:

Interesting to note that whilst it is difficult to make a direct comparison, due to the fact that Marella are AI, their prices always seem considerably higher than P&O. 

Yes I agree, I’ve noticed that every time I’ve looked. But our friends that have sailed on them say it’s more like Ibiza at sea compared to P&O which has always baffled me haha! 
 

I wonder why the prices are more. Maybe the slightly smaller ships means the operating costs are higher?...

or maybe they are just greedy like their parent company who crosses the T’s and dots the I’s.. 😂

[jeanlyon]

Plus you always have to fly which we don't do.

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, joeecco said:

or maybe they are just greedy

No, just charging the prices the market will stand.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, joeecco said:

The main thing P&O are planning for is that the ‘loyal’ smaller ship cruisers are of an average age that isn’t going to ‘future proof’ the brand. 
Saga and Fred are two smaller ship brands that focus on the older age bands and so P&O will want to be the younger brand for the British, but still an upmarket version compared to Marella. 

I’m in the target market for P&O’s future. I am 26, and cruises are my holiday of choice. Now, i choose Royal as my first choice because I love activities and the varied nightlife and shows. I also love cocktails and I find they tend to have a better selection. If P&O were trying to appeal to the younger market you would think they would add more activities on board to appeal to younger audiences. I have no issue with sailing with P&O, but I do think they fall flat in that department compared with their American counterparts. 
 

They do a good job aiming at families, but when those families have older children, lines like Royal and NCL become more appealing. 

[joeecco]

1 minute ago, Glitterati said:

I’m in the target market for P&O’s future. I am 26, and cruises are my holiday of choice. Now, i choose Royal as my first choice because I love activities and the varied nightlife and shows. I also love cocktails and I find they tend to have a better selection. If P&O were trying to appeal to the younger market you would think they would add more activities on board to appeal to younger audiences. I have no issue with sailing with P&O, but I do think they fall flat in that department compared with their American counterparts. 
 

They do a good job aiming at families, but when those families have older children, lines like Royal and NCL become more appealing. 

They aren’t trying to be an American line though. I’m 23 and RCI isn’t to our taste from all the research we’ve done, P&Os new ships are exactly what we are looking for. 
 

I agree with what Royal and NCL offer but I believe P&O are going for a different approach, trying to compete with RCI would be a bad mistake business wise in my opinion. The Gala ships are the best direction, so people like yourselves enjoy RCI and then people like ourselves who think RCI is too much will prefer these ships. 

[2BACRUISER]

20 minutes ago, joeecco said:

Yes I agree, I’ve noticed that every time I’ve looked. But our friends that have sailed on them say it’s more like Ibiza at sea compared to P&O which has always baffled me haha! 
 

I wonder why the prices are more. Maybe the slightly smaller ships means the operating costs are higher?...

or maybe they are just greedy like their parent company who crosses the T’s and dots the I’s.. 😂

We've done 2 Marella cruise the first on the adults only ship (ex celebrity) which was great and for 7nts AI inc flights to Naples cost us £2500ish, the next cruise we did out of Majorca on one of the ex RC ships was exactly as joeecco said ibiza at sea, if we had done that one first we'd never have crusied again! fancying an upgrade we had a ventura and a QV cruise for last year which of course didnt happen so we're still waiting to compare. Definetly P&O are cheaper than Marella and i think given our usual all drinks/bar bill for a week on land is around £400 we should be quids in. The other bonus as jean lyons said not having to fly. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by 2BACRUISER

[Guest]

Just now, joeecco said:

They aren’t trying to be an American line though. I’m 23 and RCI isn’t to our taste from all the research we’ve done, P&Os new ships are exactly what we are looking for. 
 

I agree with what Royal and NCL offer but I believe P&O are going for a different approach, trying to compete with RCI would be a bad mistake business wise in my opinion. The Gala ships are the best direction, so people like yourselves enjoy RCI and then people like ourselves who think RCI is too much will prefer these ships. 

It’s a good point, and I guess there has to be diversity! I plan to sail on the new ships, but I also enjoy the American ships as well. Sometimes it’s refreshing to have normal drink prices and polite fellow British passengers!!