CDC New Guidance For Vaccinated People

[3kidsncats]

29 minutes ago, ukbecky said:

 

is wrong. 

 

 

 

Agreeing with said zealots does not make the zealotry right.

? Not sure what you are trying to say??  Seems like an anti-public health restrictions comment but maybe I’m misinterpreting it

[RocketMan275]

57 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

So?  I would think it was pretty clear in all my comments here, that I’m not in favor of disregarding health policies —so a nice flip comment implying I was taking advantage of indoor dining when it was not allowed is pretty snarky.

 My comments were about the illicit dining practice and were not meant in anyway that you were involved or condoned those activities.  I only pointed out the parallels between that dining and the speakeasy.  

[3kidsncats]

42 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

 My comments were about the illicit dining practice and were not meant in anyway that you were involved or condoned those activities.  I only pointed out the parallels between that dining and the speakeasy.  

OK

[BermudaBound2014]

56 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

? Not sure what you are trying to say??  Seems like an anti-public health restrictions comment but maybe I’m misinterpreting it

 

As you know, a Zealot is a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in their pursuit of ideals. Many people (as evidenced by the recall order) believe that Newsom enacted C19 rules which were fanatical and unreasonable (example, closing beaches, dictating who a hotel can rent a room to, etc...).

 

In the case of Michigan, our Governor actually prohibited us from visiting our very own vacation homes in the north; land rights which are protected under the Constitution. Ironically, she was videotaped visiting her vacation home in Northern Michigan much like Newsom was 'caught' in the restaurant. Some might suggest that imposing rulings on commoners, while skirting the rules for yourself, provides evidence that the motivation might include something more than just public health.

 

Eventually the Michigan Supreme court stepped in and found many of Whitmer's rulings unconstitutional and I agree with the Michigan Supreme court. I believe that several (not all) of my Governors actions were both fanatical and uncompromising. We will have to wait to see whether or not she is labeled a Zealot in the history books.

 

I appreciate that the decisions our Governors were facing were tremendously difficult and unprecedented. However; I believe in some states, there were enormous over-reaches of authority. Over-reaches that may prove to be far more dangerous than the virus itself. 

 

I suspect we will never agree on this subject, but I ask you to read my response with an open mind and know that my intentions are truly malice free.

 

Wishing you much Aloha 🙂

[3kidsncats]

50 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

As you know, a Zealot is a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in their pursuit of ideals. Many people (as evidenced by the recall order) believe that Newsom enacted C19 rules which were fanatical and unreasonable (example, closing beaches, dictating who a hotel can rent a room to, etc...).

 

In the case of Michigan, our Governor actually prohibited us from visiting our very own vacation homes in the north; land rights which are protected under the Constitution. Ironically, she was videotaped visiting her vacation home in Northern Michigan much like Newsom was 'caught' in the restaurant. Some might suggest that imposing rulings on commoners, while skirting the rules for yourself, provides evidence that the motivation might include something more than just public health.

 

Eventually the Michigan Supreme court stepped in and found many of Whitmer's rulings unconstitutional and I agree with the Michigan Supreme court. I believe that several (not all) of my Governors actions were both fanatical and uncompromising. We will have to wait to see whether or not she is labeled a Zealot in the history books.

 

I appreciate that the decisions our Governors were facing were tremendously difficult and unprecedented. However; I believe in some states, there were enormous over-reaches of authority. Over-reaches that may prove to be far more dangerous than the virus itself. 

 

I suspect we will never agree on this subject, but I ask you to read my response with an open mind and know that my intentions are truly malice free.

 

Wishing you much Aloha 🙂

Read as requested.  I understand the dilemma of the vacation houses.  My BIL lives in Sun Valley, and at the start of the pandemic, lots of people decided to come live in their vacation homes located there.  And they brought the virus with them.  Into a small community, without medical resources to cope (and actually, without adequate staples for living — the stores were not prepared for off season onslaught, and it was compounded by global supply chains being shut down).  There is a real argument to be made, that it makes sound sense to try to prevent people from spreading the virus by going to their vacation homes.  But, I also understand that if you own more than one home, you would want to be able to decide which one to be in at any given time.  It is one of the many, many difficult decisions that had to be made this past year.  Some were too slow, some were too fast, too strict, not strict enough.  Initially there was very little info, and I think the intent was to do their best in the decision making process.  I don’t think the term zealot applies to any governor doing their best with limited data and a dangerous virus.  

 

We have reached a point where we know a lot more — and science has proven that transmission is reduced with masking (both in reduction of actual cases, and  when transmission does happen even when masked, that it tends to be a lower viral load, ie less severe case).  I’m sure there are those that think masking proponents are zealots, and vice versa.  I would say, that if someone wants to consider me a zealot because I am a strong advocate for masking, fine.  I can live with that.  Because if I am wrong, what harm has been caused??  Some minor inconvenience of having to wear a mask.  But if the strong advocate for anti-masking is wrong, the harm can be and generally is quite harmful.  I can sleep at night knowing I am doing my part to protect myself, my family, friends and community.  And I can’t find it in my heart to respect those that selfishly refuse to do such a simple thing.

 

We are still awaiting updated guidance from the CDC, and how that will impact cruises starting again (out of US ports — I see some lines are already moving forward with limited cruises out of Nassau and St. Maarten).  But, I have zero problem continuing to wear a mask even though I’m vaccinated (not fully yet, but will be).  

Edited March 19, 2021 by 3kidsncats
Typo

[farmersfight]

3 hours ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

That was a joke, not a personal attack! 

 

Sorry, I was mainly replying to what you had in parenthesis. The way this thread has become so hyper-politicized, I took it the wrong way. I'm a person who loves a good joke so I'm kind of surprised I missed it.

[farmersfight]

21 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

But, I have zero problem continuing to wear a mask even though I’m vaccinated (not fully yet, but will be).  

 

Why just one mask? Be like Dr. Fauci (who is fully vaccinated) and wear two.

[GonzoWCS]

4 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

I'll be clearer too.  In the movies, one knocked on the door of the speakeasy and explained to them who told you about the place, ie,  "Joe sent me." to gain entrance.  

That's pretty clear

[3kidsncats]

1 hour ago, farmersfight said:

 

Why just one mask? Be like Dr. Fauci (who is fully vaccinated) and wear two.

Why be so snarky??

[macandlucy]

1 hour ago, farmersfight said:

 

Why just one mask? Be like Dr. Fauci (who is fully vaccinated) and wear two.

Two masks (a crummy surgical under a crummy, but tight fitting cloth one) is actually the best advice Fauci has given! I know a lot about masks, honest.

[macandlucy]

Come on y’all .., we’re all on the same team here. End covid starting now, right? 😊

[cruisin07family]

5 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

Conservatives having trying to recall Newsom since he was elected and has nothing to do with handling of the pandemic response. Dissatisfaction with lockdowns is just a handy tool to rile up people to sign the petition so they can finally get it on the ballot.  Which looks likely to happen— we will probably end up wasting lots of taxpayer money for that by the end of the year, but ultimately, I don’t think it will work.  

 

And I would bet, that every family in the state, that had their kids in private school before the pandemic, have continued to do so.  Not sure how that is relevant?  Nor is it in anyway limited to one state.  Really, all you are arguing is a bunch of tired anti-California rhetoric.  It boggles my mind why so many want to try to disparage the state, and yet, everyone seems to move here.  If a few have decided to go back to their home states, or somewhere else, I don’t think the rest of us have a problem with that. I wish them well.
 

Businesses are always complaining about California, and relocating, or threatening to do so, and yet most stay because ultimately it benefits them to do business here.  Also, nothing new about that, specific to the pandemic or lockdown.  Personally, I’m happier having businesses here in the state that care as much about their employees as their bottom line.  It’s a beneficial cycle — when employees feel respected, they feel more committed to their job, tend to be more productive, and turnover is decreased.  Win-win.  

 

 

Californians are their own breed, lol.  Yes, the recall will probably fail and it makes me giggle.  Dems get what they deserve since they keep voting for it.  You can keep him.  I have NO desire to move there; hell, now I no longer am interested in even visiting.  Yikes, the videos of the homeless and drug-infested areas all in the open!  It's a shame because I was interested in Wine Country for a minute a fews years back.

[3kidsncats]

54 minutes ago, macandlucy said:

Two masks (a crummy surgical under a crummy, but tight fitting cloth one) is actually the best advice Fauci has given! I know a lot about masks, honest.

When I do go out (which is rare because I have risk factors) I wear a single, well fitted mask, that I make with high quality quilting cotton, a 16 merv filter fabric, and silk lining (for the electrostatic benefit).  I think that is better than two poorly fitted, or poorly fabricated masks.  

[3kidsncats]

56 minutes ago, macandlucy said:

Come on y’all .., we’re all on the same team here. End covid starting now, right? 😊

Yes!  And let’s get back to cruising and seeing the people in our lives that we love.  I lost my Dad to Covid, and I don’t want to lose anyone else.

[macandlucy]

7 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

When I do go out (which is rare because I have risk factors) I wear a single, well fitted mask, that I make with high quality quilting cotton, a 16 merv filter fabric, and silk lining (for the electrostatic benefit).  I think that is better than two poorly fitted, or poorly fabricated masks.  

Can't complain about that mask!  Good for you; you're protecting yourself and others with a good mask. I wouldn't be upset if you added a surgical mask underneath, but I might be overly cautious. (I'm impressed that you know about electrostatic benefits of different fabrics.)  It's true that some masks, maybe many masks don't work, but it's not true that good masks don't work.

 

I also wear a good mask, and spent most of March last year researching filtration effectiveness and fit and then making them when you couldn't buy them anywhere. One good test -- if you can smell anything (aside from your own breath :|) while your mask is on, it's not as effective as it should  be. 

 

For the mask naysayers, please ask yourself this: if masks are useless, why the desperation to save them for healthcare workers? Because they don't work? Or because they know they do?

[macandlucy]

25 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

Yes!  And let’s get back to cruising and seeing the people in our lives that we love.  I lost my Dad to Covid, and I don’t want to lose anyone else.

I'm so sorry for your loss, 3kidsncats. 

[3kidsncats]

11 minutes ago, macandlucy said:

Can't complain about that mask!  Good for you; you're protecting yourself and others with a good mask. I wouldn't be upset if you added a surgical mask underneath, but I might be overly cautious. (I'm impressed that you know about electrostatic benefits of different fabrics.)  It's true that some masks, maybe many masks don't work, but it's not true that good masks don't work.

 

I also wear a good mask, and spent most of March last year researching filtration effectiveness and fit and then making them when you couldn't buy them anywhere. One good test -- if you can smell anything (aside from your own breath :|) while your mask is on, it's not as effective as it should  be. 

 

For the mask naysayers, please ask yourself this: if masks are useless, why the desperation to save them for healthcare workers? Because they don't work? Or because they know they do?

 

9 minutes ago, macandlucy said:

I'm so sorry for your loss, 3kidsncats. 

Thanks — I also did a lot of research back in March of last year, and paired it with my degree in Clothing and Textiles to make the best mask I could.  Sent out quite a few to family the past year.  The filter fabric I use is 3 layers, and rated as 95% effective at 0.3 microns, so should suffice.  I don’t engage in any close or prolonged contact.  I also add a wire at the nasal bridge.  And knock on wood, so far no one I gave masks to has caught Covid.  

 

And thanks for the condolences— he had very, very severe dementia, so as devastating as it was to lose him, I certainly couldn’t wish for him to be trapped in dementia any longer.  

[farmersfight]

7 hours ago, macandlucy said:

Come on y’all .., we’re all on the same team here. End covid starting now, right? 😊

 

6 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

Yes!  And let’s get back to cruising and seeing the people in our lives that we love.

 

6 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

When I do go out (which is rare because I have risk factors) I wear a single, well fitted mask, that I make with high quality quilting cotton, a 16 merv filter fabric, and silk lining (for the electrostatic benefit).  I think that is better than two poorly fitted, or poorly fabricated masks.  

 

6 hours ago, macandlucy said:

Can't complain about that mask!  Good for you; you're protecting yourself and others with a good mask. I wouldn't be upset if you added a surgical mask underneath, but I might be overly cautious. (I'm impressed that you know about electrostatic benefits of different fabrics.)  It's true that some masks, maybe many masks don't work, but it's not true that good masks don't work.

 

I also wear a good mask, and spent most of March last year researching filtration effectiveness and fit and then making them when you couldn't buy them anywhere. One good test -- if you can smell anything (aside from your own breath :|) while your mask is on, it's not as effective as it should  be. 

 

For the mask naysayers, please ask yourself this: if masks are useless, why the desperation to save them for healthcare workers? Because they don't work? Or because they know they do?

 

I thought we we supposed to "end covid starting now" and "get back to cruising" a few posts ago. And now it's droning on and on about masks. I don't get it.

Edited March 20, 2021 by farmersfight

[mianmike]

29 minutes ago, farmersfight said:

I thought we we supposed to "end covid starting now" and "get back to cruising" a few posts ago. And now it's droning on and on about masks. I don't get it.

 

Right now there's this deadly pandemic the world is trying to eradicate.  To do that we need herd immunity.  To achieve herd immunity we need to get everyone vaccinated and we need to slow the variants, because if we don't there will eventually be a mutation that defeats the vaccines and we'll be back to square one.  A virus needs transmission for it to mutate.  Stop transmission and you stop the mutations.  If everyone did their part, we could crush this thing.  It's so simple.  It's maddening people can't comprehend the concept.

[farmersfight]

9 minutes ago, mianmike said:

 

Right now there's this deadly pandemic the world is trying to eradicate.  To do that we need herd immunity.  To achieve herd immunity we need to get everyone vaccinated and we need to slow the variants, because if we don't there will eventually be a mutation that defeats the vaccines and we'll be back to square one.  A virus needs transmission for it to mutate.  Stop transmission and you stop the mutations.  If everyone did their part, we could crush this thing.  It's so simple.  It's maddening people can't comprehend the concept.

 

I'm with you. But I think by saying "end covid starting now"@macandlucy meant to end the political "back and forth" (i.e. masks) about covid on this thread and get back to discussing cruising.

Edited March 20, 2021 by farmersfight

[RunBikeCruiseDC]

On 3/9/2021 at 3:38 PM, graphicguy said:

Took an elderly (80-ish) neighbor to get his shot last week.  While I didn't qualify for mine, the vaccine site said since I provided transport for my neighbor, they'd give me my first shot, too.  And, they scheduled me (and my neighbor) for the 2nd shot.  They were using Pfizer.

In our area, if there are cancellations they are offering up the vaccines to anyone nearby (volunteers, customers in pharmacies).  That's due to the storage issues with Pfizer and Moderna - once they have thawed, they need to be used in a certain amount of time.    That's how I got my jab sooner than I expected, in the right place at the right time.  J&J doesn't have the storage issues.

[HuliHuli]

14 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

We have reached a point where we know a lot more — and science has proven that transmission is reduced with masking (both in reduction of actual cases, and  when transmission does happen even when masked, that it tends to be a lower viral load, ie less severe case).

So @3kidsncats, would you be so kind as to post the peer-reviewed scientific studies that prove this point?  No generalizations please and no "CDC says" because they have been on both sides of the debate.

 

I'm happy to post my references here (https://www.technocracy.news/masks-are-neither-effective-nor-safe-a-summary-of-the-science/) that summarizes numerous peer-reviewed studies which collectively conclude "face masks were found to have no detectable effect against transmission of viral infections."  And note the specific studies are cited in each of the collected reports so you can dig down to read the specifics of each study and the conclusions of the respective science teams.  In one of those studies that focused on the use of the most common disposable surgical masks, you know the kind you buy in packs of 100 from Walmart, they conclude "Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure."

 

I look forward to reviewing your countervailing list.  From my perspective, the studies support the conclusion that mask wearing, particularly after being vaccinated, is 'feel-good science' AKA "theater."

[Cruzinforpeace***]

9 minutes ago, HuliHuli said:

So @3kidsncats, would you be so kind as to post the peer-reviewed scientific studies that prove this point?  No generalizations please and no "CDC says" because they have been on both sides of the debate.

 

I'm happy to post my references here (https://www.technocracy.news/masks-are-neither-effective-nor-safe-a-summary-of-the-science/) that summarizes numerous peer-reviewed studies which collectively conclude "face masks were found to have no detectable effect against transmission of viral infections."  And note the specific studies are cited in each of the collected reports so you can dig down to read the specifics of each study and the conclusions of the respective science teams.  In one of those studies that focused on the use of the most common disposable surgical masks, you know the kind you buy in packs of 100 from Walmart, they conclude "Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure."

 

I look forward to reviewing your countervailing list.  From my perspective, the studies support the conclusion that mask wearing, particularly after being vaccinated, is 'feel-good science' AKA "theater."

Well, we definitely agree on this one.  

[macandlucy]

3 hours ago, farmersfight said:

 

I'm with you. But I think by saying "end covid starting now"@macandlucy meant to end the political "back and forth" (i.e. masks) about covid on this thread and get back to discussing cruising.

Apologies for getting off topic with the masks talk. Although I do believe effective masks play an important role in reducing transmission. I see them as no more political than social distancing or hand hygiene.  It's tragic to me that people have separated into "teams" on how to behave during this pandemic. There's only one good team, and we are all on it: Team People!  

 

All we can do is our very, very best not to catch covid, and if we do catch it, do our best not to spread it.

 

I'm with the people who say "masks don't work" because crummy masks don't really work. And I'm with the people who are pro masks because good masks do work. It's both; they do work and they don't work. It really depends on the mask. N95 or close proximation that you can make at home, those work.

 

Once I'm vaccinated, and have given the old bod a few weeks to build immunity, I will drop my fancy, effective mask and start wearing a lightweight, flimsy one that is more comfortable, if I am still "required" to wear a mask.  At that point I will stop relying on a mask to do the work and start relying on my own immune system. And frankly, if I'm still "required" to wear a mask, several weeks after we've all been vaccinated, I'll be side eyeing the whole thing.  Vaccines give us immunity. That's how vaccines work, that's how they have always worked, and if there's something different about this vaccine, then they need to tell us that up front. So far, all I'm hearing is it's safe and effective. And if I'm vaccinated and still manage to catch a mild case of covid, then that's okay -- more immunity for me.  

 

(I literally cannot get off the topic of masks :| Seems I owe you another apology)

 

 

[HuliHuli]

10 minutes ago, macandlucy said:

"I'm with the people who say "masks don't work" because crummy masks don't really work. And I'm with the people who are pro masks because good masks do work. It's both; they do work and they don't work. It really depends on the mask. N95 or close proximation [sic] that you can make at home, those work."

Well @macandlucy, let's examine the evidence.  I hate to cite the CDC that vacillates with the wind (https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article#:~:text=Participants made masks from different materials, and all,provide better protection than masks made of gauze.), but their report states inter alia "We also examined the filtration ability of cloth masks by reviewing 19 studies (3). We found that the filtration effectiveness of cloth masks is generally lower than that of medical masks and respirators. Filtration effectiveness of cloth masks varies widely;" [emphasis added]

 

A separate study specific to the use of homemade masks from the NIH (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24229526/) concluded "Our findings suggest that a homemade mask should only be considered as a last resort to prevent droplet transmission from infected individuals, but it would be better than no protection."

 

The science is not a ringing endorsement of your position.