Florida Looking to Push Back Against CDC

[Heartgrove]

I watched the link regarding the roundtable that Gov. DeSantis held. Sorry that they aren't able to operate but that is "Capitalism". Didn't the tourism industry get stimulus money? Florida received $360 billion from the America Rescue Act. It seems as if the companies just want to operate and continue where they left off last year. No concrete movement on their part for operating germ free. If the MSC sailing plan is such a "Gold Standard", then the other companies should agree to operate with that. Instead of mounting a wall against the CDC and having constituents write to Washington, do something positive. Try to work with the CDC and perhaps propose the use of the MSC plan.

 

[idiebabe]

19 minutes ago, Heartgrove said:

I watched the link regarding the roundtable that Gov. DeSantis held. Sorry that they aren't able to operate but that is "Capitalism". Didn't the tourism industry get stimulus money? Florida received $360 billion from the America Rescue Act. It seems as if the companies just want to operate and continue where they left off last year. No concrete movement on their part for operating germ free. If the MSC sailing plan is such a "Gold Standard", then the other companies should agree to operate with that. Instead of mounting a wall against the CDC and having constituents write to Washington, do something positive. Try to work with the CDC and perhaps propose the use of the MSC plan.

 

I think you need to rewatch it and put your Political views aside.  You seemed to have missed a lot or didn’t comprehend what was said especially by the Presidents of the Cruise Lines.  The  Cruise Lines are all working together and will operate with the Protocols.  Where did they say in that Roundtable that they wouldn’t!  

 

They have been trying to work with the CDC and are getting no response other than “In Review”.  Did you miss that part, too? 
 

There will never be Germ Free or Zero Risk.    There  never was Pre-Covid.   If that’s your condition for Sailing, best of luck to you!  

[Heartgrove]

10 hours ago, idiebabe said:

I think you need to rewatch it and put your Political views aside.  You seemed to have missed a lot or didn’t comprehend what was said especially by the Presidents of the Cruise Lines.  The  Cruise Lines are all working together and will operate with the Protocols.  Where did they say in that Roundtable that they wouldn’t!  

 

They have been trying to work with the CDC and are getting no response other than “In Review”.  Did you miss that part, too? 
 

There will never be Germ Free or Zero Risk.    There  never was Pre-Covid.   If that’s your condition for Sailing, best of luck to you!  

 

I listened to you and re-watched the roundtable video. I even replayed parts just to clarify what was actually said. I want to cruise again just like any other forum member. Sorry that you feel I am political but I guess having an opposing view in today's world gets translated as a political view.

 

I acknowledge that the cruise companies bring in millions of dollars in revenue to local areas, but are actually incorporated in foreign countries. Has RCCL received any pandemic relief from Liberia, MSC from Switzerland, etc.? They are flags of convenience so to lay claim that they have not been compensated for losses or any conversation thereof suffered  during the pandemic should be addressed elsewhere.

 

The current CDC (at the time of the roundtable) has been responsible for administering the "No Sail Order and Suspension of Further Embarkation" for 65 days. Is it fair to blame them as It seems to me that the bulk of complaint should be placed on the previous WH Administration's CDC that actually placed the rule into effect. There are three criteria of which one needs to be met to resume sailing in the standing order. Are the cruise companies using bluster to complain? 

 

Because the companies are not forth coming with letting their plans publicly be known by potential customers that would be interested in cruising,  it may be hard for the general public to make a choice. The NCL president made the comparison to restaurants being allowed to open. The restaurants in my area, simply stated, have been limited to carry-out only to 50% capacity with it changing going back and forth with the number of spikes in infection. The exposure time is at most three hours for patrons of a restaurant while eating indoors. For example, Amtrak has taken the steps to block off seating for capacity control, no food is available to them, and sleeper passengers receive their meal (included in their fare) and return to their compartment to eat. There is no congregating in the diner. Has it been said that the cruises companies could operate in a similar fashion? Yes staggered seating in the dining areas would be expected. Would they accept an arbitrary  25% berth capacity (or a number derived from discussion by both parties)  to begin cruising again? If a passenger gets infected, would they accept the cost of repatriating a passenger? Are their medical protocols improved?  We currently don't know is my point.

 

I  applaud MSC for what I have seen in online videos of the MSC Grandiosa sailings. Do RCCL, NCL, HAL, etc. intend on taking similar precautions? It would be best with 100% vaccinated passengers with Covid testing as well but I am willing to accept a protocol with correctly sampled tests only.

 

I fully accept that there will be infections on future cruises. It is the nature of the beast. Although I have been lucky and never experienced a Code Red on a cruise, knock on wood, don't let it happen to me! I do not  expect a massive outbreak like the Diamond Princess that sickened 700 and 13 passengers died. I actually am positive that cruising will restart that I plan on booking an additional cruise today. But it will be for mid- November 2021. 

[KroozNut]

On 3/27/2021 at 2:28 AM, ski ww said:

I think going against the advice of medical professionals is just asking for trouble.

 

Depends on which medical professional's advice you're referring to, I suppose.

[Mosaic]

👎

[Heartgrove]

Here is the pdf signed by Dr. Redfield. There was a response period that received 13,000 responses before this was issued. It also states that there are specific health health considerations that need to be met before being removed. It also indicates that the Covid infection continued as of September 2020 well after the rule took effect.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/CDC-NSO-Third-Extension-09-30-2020-p.pdf

[cruisemom42]

19 hours ago, idiebabe said:

FYI in case anyone missed this!  It's a little over an hour long but worth watching! 

 

https://youtu.be/K-3nv-ycs7E

 

 

I tried to watch it but really found it hard to get beyond the very beginning where the Governor himself references that Florida's unemployment is at 4.7%, relative to the rest of the US at 6.2%. It doesn't exactly support this storyline that Florida is suffering as a result of the No Sail Order and the Conditional Framework...

 

There are 32 states whose unemployment numbers are worse than Florida's -- some approaching 10%. Shouldn't we worry about helping those states first?

 

(Also, and this is personal but I can't help it -- I am very turned off from watching it by the lack of masks and social distancing.)

[idiebabe]

11 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I tried to watch it but really found it hard to get beyond the very beginning where the Governor himself references that Florida's unemployment is at 4.7%, relative to the rest of the US at 6.2%. It doesn't exactly support this storyline that Florida is suffering as a result of the No Sail Order and the Conditional Framework...

 

There are 32 states whose unemployment numbers are worse than Florida's -- some approaching 10%. Shouldn't we worry about helping those states first?

 

(Also, and this is personal but I can't help it -- I am very turned off from watching it by the lack of masks and social distancing.)

It's a shame you feel that way!  You may of learned something! Some very interesting info from the Presidents of the various Cruise Lines and their efforts to get the Ships back to sailing from Florida and the other U.S. Ports.  

 

I'm not going to get into a discussion on Unemployment numbers with you and why some States are doing better than others (pretty obvious) but I feel your comments are callous toward the thousands out of work and the Companies suffering as a result of the Cruise Lines not operating.  As a Business Owner these Companies need to get operational in order to survive and their Employees need to get back to work!  😢  

 

 

[bcummin]

Code Red on cruises was not the end of the world.

Rather, it was teamwork to get rid of the sickness.  Eventually successful.

Holland America's experience in this area gives me hope that they will be able to cruise again.

Barbara  

[idiebabe]

@Heartgrove  There is an expression that "The Past is a Bucket of Ashes".  This is now and we can't get stuck in the Past.  It's time to move forward and the CDC needs to  meet with CLIA and the Presidents of these Cruise Lines to get these Ships sailing again from U.S. Ports!  

[Heartgrove]

1 hour ago, idiebabe said:

@Heartgrove  There is an expression that "The Past is a Bucket of Ashes".  

 

The last thing fire departments want to hear is to be dispatched to a "Rekindle." It is prevented by being very thorough with on-scene assessment by the whole team.

[tinaincc]

On 3/30/2021 at 2:40 PM, kazu said:

 

The young are being hospitalized with the new variant.  

Cases do not equal herd immunity.  If someone catches the virus, there immunity is very short lived.  

I won’t debate on this site as this is a place for fun! You may want to take a look at the CDC for detailed data on hospitalizations by age group. I would agree there have been a very small number of young people hospitalized. I guess you need to define young.

 

 

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

3 hours ago, idiebabe said:

@Heartgrove  There is an expression that "The Past is a Bucket of Ashes".  This is now and we can't get stuck in the Past.  It's time to move forward and the CDC needs to  meet with CLIA and the Presidents of these Cruise Lines to get these Ships sailing again from U.S. Ports!  

Yes please..

[kazu]

2 hours ago, tinaincc said:

I won’t debate on this site as this is a place for fun! You may want to take a look at the CDC for detailed data on hospitalizations by age group. I would agree there have been a very small number of young people hospitalized. I guess you need to define young.

 

 

 

All I will say here are that the younger are the ones now with the most cases and a number are getting hospitalized.  Many more than before.

Young?  19 - 49 - the people that weren’t supposed to be vulnerable.  

I confess I am more focused on Canadian numbers than U.S. 😉 I think that’s understandable.  I can say in our province the bulk of the cases are those under 50 and a lot under 30 now.

 

And here, most seniors have still not been vaccinated.  I’m guessing the younger aren’t as cautious as we are?

[rkacruiser]

44 minutes ago, kazu said:

 I can say in our province the bulk of the cases are those under 50

 

If I understood what I just heard on NBC Nightly News, the bulk of the new cases are in the 50's and under.  

[rkacruiser]

6 hours ago, Heartgrove said:

Here is the pdf signed by Dr. Redfield. 

 

I have no confidence in this gentleman.  There is "something" about his tone of voice, his non-verbal behavior that I hear and see that has elicited a negative feeling in me from the time he first appeared on the scene.  

[cruisemom42]

6 hours ago, idiebabe said:

I feel your comments are callous toward the thousands out of work and the Companies suffering as a result of the Cruise Lines not operating.  As a Business Owner these Companies need to get operational in order to survive and their Employees need to get back to work!

 

Of course I agree. But there are business owners not working everywhere and I just don't see why cruise industry workers deserve special attention or should go to the front of the line just because we ALL would like to cruise.

 

I want to get back to cruising as much as everyone else does. I've been cruising since the 1970s. But I'm not willing to mortgage our collective safety just to scratch a vacation itch.

 

I also just read another interesting thread on the topic and learned that the cruise industry contributes only a little less than 8 billion to Florida's GDP of about 951 billion -- which is less than 1%.

 

Again, I have nothing against anyone whose business is suffering as a result of COVID.  I just feel that the cruise industry spokespeople are trying to take advantage of the situation by suggesting there is significantly more impact than is really there...

 

 

[idiebabe]

22 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Again, I have nothing against anyone whose business is suffering as a result of COVID.  I just feel that the cruise industry spokespeople are trying to take advantage of the situation by suggesting there is significantly more impact than is really there...

 

 

If you would watch the Roundtable maybe you will know how many people have been affected by the Cruise Lines not operating and not only in Florida but in other States.  Not to be rude but your oblivious to the impact it has had!  

 

Thousands have been furloughed, lost their jobs from Port Workers, Taxi Drivers, Restaurants, Hotel jobs, the local Vendors who supply the Cruise Lines (liquor, beer and wine suppliers, produce and food suppliers, Florists, etc.).    (The list is long!)  These are real people who haven’t worked in a year.   They are not retired with their Retirement Funds and very comfortable financially like so many who post here.  They have Mortgages, Car Payments, Utilities, etc.and Unemployment just doesn’t cover it all.  They are hurting and they want to get back to work!  They need to get back to work!  The Small Businesses are hurting.  A couple of the Businesses at the Meeting like the Linen/Uniform Company have a warehouse full of Cruise Line Uniforms and materials just sitting there for over a year and laid off all but 10 Employees.  He still has Overhead to pay.   Where is your Compassion?  
 

Our State is Open and our Mask Mandate has been lifted.  We have been open since Mid-May/Early June.  TG or we’d be out of business!  I feel for those Businesses who are subjected to Lockdowns which resulted having to close their doors.  Many have lost their livelihoods!  Many more will!  We faced the challenges as a Small Business and have seen first hand the rippling effect on the Vendors and their Employees who supply Restaurants, Hotels, etc.  It’s so  nice to know that you have “nothing against anyone whose Business is suffering from Covid”.  Bless your Heart!  

 

If you want to live your life in some protective bubble, that’s your choice.  The Cruise Lines have Protocols that are working, so many have or will be getting the Vaccine and are ready to not only Cruise but to start living a normal life again!  

 

 

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, idiebabe said:

Where is your Compassion?  

 

I'm sorry that you have chosen not to understand what I am saying.

 

I'm not retired, I've worked from home for more than a year. I have a mortgage, I have a car payment, and I also have my adult son living with me because he has not been able to move into his own place. I've not been able to see my parents or sister for 15 months. Please don't make assumptions.

 

Why is your compassion so much more special than mine because it is targeted only to those whose livelihoods are impacted by the halt to cruising?

 

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

10 hours ago, idiebabe said:

If you would watch the Roundtable maybe you will know how many people have been affected by the Cruise Lines not operating and not only in Florida but in other States.  Not to be rude but your oblivious to the impact it has had!  

 

Thousands have been furloughed, lost their jobs from Port Workers, Taxi Drivers, Restaurants, Hotel jobs, the local Vendors who supply the Cruise Lines (liquor, beer and wine suppliers, produce and food suppliers, Florists, etc.).    (The list is long!)  These are real people who haven’t worked in a year.   They are not retired with their Retirement Funds and very comfortable financially like so many who post here.  They have Mortgages, Car Payments, Utilities, etc.and Unemployment just doesn’t cover it all.  They are hurting and they want to get back to work!  They need to get back to work!  The Small Businesses are hurting.  A couple of the Businesses at the Meeting like the Linen/Uniform Company have a warehouse full of Cruise Line Uniforms and materials just sitting there for over a year and laid off all but 10 Employees.  He still has Overhead to pay.   Where is your Compassion?  
 

Our State is Open and our Mask Mandate has been lifted.  We have been open since Mid-May/Early June.  TG or we’d be out of business!  I feel for those Businesses who are subjected to Lockdowns which resulted having to close their doors.  Many have lost their livelihoods!  Many more will!  We faced the challenges as a Small Business and have seen first hand the rippling effect on the Vendors and their Employees who supply Restaurants, Hotels, etc.  It’s so  nice to know that you have “nothing against anyone whose Business is suffering from Covid”.  Bless your Heart!  

 

If you want to live your life in some protective bubble, that’s your choice.  The Cruise Lines have Protocols that are working, so many have or will be getting the Vaccine and are ready to not only Cruise but to start living a normal life again!  

 

 

        Plus there are 100s more  of small company's that  95% of there work is  the cruise lines,  Guest never think of them ..( SeaTrade) is a trade show for the cruise industry that is held once  every year with over 600 exhibits  some company's are very large P.G. soap for  dishwasher and the Washing machine  but some are small  ( piano tuner man ) 

[idiebabe]

12 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I'm sorry that you have chosen not to understand what I am saying.

 

I'm not retired, I've worked from home for more than a year. I have a mortgage, I have a car payment, and I also have my adult son living with me because he has not been able to move into his own place. I've not been able to see my parents or sister for 15 months. Please don't make assumptions.

 

Why is your compassion so much more special than mine because it is targeted only to those whose livelihoods are impacted by the halt to cruising?

 

I understand what you are saying and also now understand why you can't relate. 😢  You work from home and have a paycheck coming in to pay your Mortgage, pay your Car Payment, etc.  You're very fortunate but so many are not through no fault of their own.

 

It's not just limited to the Cruise Industry.  It's the entire Service Industry as well as the Companies that supply them.   In addition, the Crew are being affected as a result of the Ships not Sailing and also the Countries they come from.  They, too, want to get back to work and have a Paycheck (like you do)!

 

  

 

 

 

 

[cruisemom42]

12 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

I understand what you are saying and also now understand why you can't relate. 😢  You work from home and have a paycheck coming in to pay your Mortgage, pay your Car Payment, etc.  You're very fortunate but so many are not through no fault of their own.

 

It's not just limited to the Cruise Industry.  It's the entire Service Industry as well as the Companies that supply them.   In addition, the Crew are being affected as a result of the Ships not Sailing and also the Countries they come from.  They, too, want to get back to work and have a Paycheck (like you do)!

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

You keep moving the goal posts. First I couldn't understand because I didn't fully understand the situation. Then I couldn't understand because I'm not currently working, with a mortgage, car payment, yada yada. Now it's because I am not unemployed....?

 

Do you honestly think those of us with jobs and mortgages haven't been working under a cloud of fear all year that our jobs will *poof* in this pandemic economy?

 

I give up. Not going to spend more time justifying myself to someone who clearly can only see things from a single point of view.

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by cruisemom42

[rkacruiser]

11 hours ago, Gail & Marty sailing away said:

        Plus there are 100s more  of small company's that  95% of there work is  the cruise lines,  Guest never think of them ..( SeaTrade) is a trade show for the cruise industry that is held once  every year with over 600 exhibits  some company's are very large P.G. soap for  dishwasher and the Washing machine  but some are small  ( piano tuner man ) 

 

This is a trade show that I have thought would be interesting to attend even if one was not directly connected and could be a potential customer of the companies.  I wonder if I would even be allowed to register and attend.  

 

The economic impact of what has taken place in the cruising industry is like the pebble thrown into a pond.  The ripples keep growing from that point of impact.  

[idiebabe]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

The economic impact of what has taken place in the cruising industry is like the pebble thrown into a pond.  The ripples keep growing from that point of impact.  

Yes it is and very well said!  

[HappyInVan]

Folks,

 

Got to be honest. This is not going to work.

 

CDC is able to ban sailing because the HHS secretary has declared that COVID-19 constitutes a public health emergency.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/index.html

 

Therefore, CDC cannot just lift the ban as long as the Emergency is in force. Should be obvious to any impartial judge that a thousand deaths a day constitute a public health emergency.

 

Florida and the CLIA could argue that cruises are safe as long as everyone on board is vax. Unfortunately, FL is also going to disallow digital passports. So, no mask mandate. No vax requirement.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-governor-ron-desantis-will-ban-vaccine-passports-2021-3

 

Basically, FL has just shot itself through the foot. And, scuttled the cruise companies willing to require vaccination. Perhaps, the industry will have better luck sailing out of California? Or, New York which is building an app.

 

I just don't see any reputable lawyer willing to act for FL. It will just be a mockery of the justice system, like back in December and January. Honestly!