Workaround For Florida Cruises

[KennyFla]

From US Customs and Border Protection site:

 

"Any small pleasure vessel leaving a United States port into international or foreign waters, without a call at a foreign port, does not satisfy the foreign departure requirement. Therefore, certain fishing vessels, cruises to nowhere, or any vessel that leaves from a United States port and returns without calling a foreign port or place, has not departed the United States."

 

A cruise to nowhere from a Florida port would not be under the jurisdiction of the CDC.

 

 

 

 

[capriccio]

Huh? 

 

Since your quote is from the CBP I presume it concerns Border Patrol re-entry regulations and whether a passport is needed.  Customs probably doesn't enter into the equation since the vessel doesn't stop in any foreign location.

 

If the ship is departing from and returning to the United States, how can it not be under the jurisdiction of the CDC?  Even CLIA (the Cruise Lines International Association) states that "agencies such as the U.S Coast Guard, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) have full authority to regulate and enforce compliance for ships entering or departing from U.S. ports." (https://cruising.org/en/about-the-industry/policy-priorities/cruise-industry-regulation)

 

 

[Geobugs]

As long as the ship flies an American flag.

[KennyFla]

5 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

As long as the ship flies an American flag.

Why are river cruises exempt from the CDC?

[dolphin1313]

2 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

Why are river cruises exempt from the CDC?

I believe because they're sailing with less than 250 people (passengers and crew).

[dolphin1313]

8 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

Why are river cruises exempt from the CDC?

 

5 minutes ago, dolphin1313 said:

I believe because they're sailing with less than 250 people (passengers and crew).

To clarify: In my understanding, they do fall under the CDC but they won't fall under the Conditional Sail Order.

[KennyFla]

36 minutes ago, capriccio said:

Huh? 

 

Since your quote is from the CBP I presume it concerns Border Patrol re-entry regulations and whether a passport is needed.  Customs probably doesn't enter into the equation since the vessel doesn't stop in any foreign location.

 

If the ship is departing from and returning to the United States, how can it not be under the jurisdiction of the CDC?  Even CLIA (the Cruise Lines International Association) states that "agencies such as the U.S Coast Guard, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) have full authority to regulate and enforce compliance for ships entering or departing from U.S. ports." (https://cruising.org/en/about-the-industry/policy-priorities/cruise-industry-regulation)

 

 

The quote above states that if a vessel leaves a US port of call and makes no other ports before returning it is considered to have never left the US. It could be argued that the ship is now a resort, which has a under the control of the state of Florida 

it is a long shot. But hey we can hope

 

[Essiesmom]

1 hour ago, KennyFla said:

From US Customs and Border Protection site:

 

"Any small pleasure vessel leaving a United States port into international or foreign waters, without a call at a foreign port, does not satisfy the foreign departure requirement. Therefore, certain fishing vessels, cruises to nowhere, or any vessel that leaves from a United States port and returns without calling a foreign port or place, has not departed the United States."

 

A cruise to nowhere from a Florida port would not be under the jurisdiction of the CDC.

 

 

 

 

And therein lies the other problem not related to the CDC.  Since the ship has ‘not departed the US, crew would now be working in the US and need different visas, pay, etc.  All covered in the endless threads about the PVSA.

EM

[Linda the Book Lover]

5 hours ago, dolphin1313 said:

I believe because they're sailing with less than 250 people (passengers and crew).

I do believe you are correct😁

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Linda the Book Lover

[KennyFla]

Norwegian has just thrown down the gauntlet:

 

 

"On Monday, the company asked the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for permission to return to U.S. waters for the first time in more than a year, since the early days of the pandemic.

Norwegian says its cruise lines will require that all passengers and crew members vaccinated against COVID-19 at least two weeks before the trip."

 

They have also suspended bookings through August.  I believe that if the CDC does not grant the July request they will pull their ships out of the US.

 

[Homosassa]

Why do cruise ships need a work around for Florida?

 

If you are referring to the recent Executive Order about vaccination passports and verifying vaccination status in Florida, there is no need for a work around.

 

Read the actual order and pay close attention to every word in Section 1 and 5. The order is a masterful example of seeming to say one thing while actually allowing the very thing it seems to ban.

 

Cruise ships will be able to require vaccination status for passengers. 

[KennyFla]

6 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

Why do cruise ships need a work around for Florida?

 

If you are referring to the recent Executive Order about vaccination passports and verifying vaccination status in Florida, there is no need for a work around.

 

Read the actual order and pay close attention to every word in Section 1 and 5. The order is a masterful example of seeming to say one thing while actually allowing the very thing it seems to ban.

 

Cruise ships will be able to require vaccination status for passengers. 

 

The work around is to get around the CDC.  I believe that cruise ships will require vaccinations, at least at first, and an exception will be made for them.  If they are really prohibited, there is debate about that.

[Homosassa]

Read the actual CDC order. Pay close attention to the language used.

 

The words "must"' or "shall" means the requirement is an absolute that must be included. "Should" means it is a statement of what can be but is not an absolute when supporting data can be supplied for another procedure.

 

There is more leeway for negotiation in the document that many realize. 

[KennyFla]

1 hour ago, Homosassa said:

Read the actual CDC order. Pay close attention to the language used.

 

The words "must"' or "shall" means the requirement is an absolute that must be included. "Should" means it is a statement of what can be but is not an absolute when supporting data can be supplied for another procedure.

 

There is more leeway for negotiation in the document that many realize. 

The industry disagrees with you:

"In short, CLIA called out the technical instructions, "The new requirements are unduly burdensome, largely unworkable, and seem to reflect a zero-risk objective rather than the mitigation approach to COVID that is the basis for every other US sector of our society."

[DCGuy64]

1 minute ago, KennyFla said:

seem to reflect a zero-risk objective rather than the mitigation approach to COVID that is the basis for every other US sector of our society."

Bingo! 

Sadly, this zero-risk objective seems to be shared by a number of posters in our midst. Fortunately for those of us who understand that the mitigation approach is more realistic, cruise lines are happy to oblige. 😊 Can't wait for our next cruise!

[Homosassa]

3 hours ago, KennyFla said:

The industry disagrees with you:

"In short, CLIA called out the technical instructions, "The new requirements are unduly burdensome, largely unworkable, and seem to reflect a zero-risk objective rather than the mitigation approach to COVID that is the basis for every other US sector of our society."

Meanwhile the cruiseline lawyers and other staff are probably busily working on the agreements and procedures.